6'1" 190 - typically that body type as a junior in HS translates to 40-50 lbs of weight gain in college. DBs tend to be in the 140-155 range.Originally Posted by cccasooner2
6'1" 190 - typically that body type as a junior in HS translates to 40-50 lbs of weight gain in college. DBs tend to be in the 140-155 range.
Thanks, on LT they said his legs were too long.
Mike Stoops: "F*ck me. " - Quoted during the FAMU game following the 1st quarter timeout for 12 men on field.
heh. Everything is speculation at this point without confirmed numbers (is that weight way overstated/is he 18 already etc). However, in general, at age 16 the various body types start to separate and the athletic guys who are at the high end of the scale (which this kid is) are the most difficult to predict. At this point, I'd project him as a linebacker assuming he is between 200 and 205 next year. If he gets bigger than that, he is going to have his hand on the ground at OU.Thanks, on LT they said his legs were too long.
Yeah, im calling complete and utter BS on this one!
Derrick Strait: 5'11 194# when he was being recruited. Going to the NFL: 5'11 189#
Adrian Peterson: 6'1.5 205# when he was being recruited. Going into the NFL: 6'1 217#
Aaron Colvin: 6' 180 # when he was being recruited. After his Senior Season: 6' 192#
So where is this 40-50 pounds you speak of?
Skip Bayless, is that you?
His legs too long? Wtf?Thanks, on LT they said his legs were too long.
Smh at the ignorance of some people.
What's next he ain't dark enough?
Skip Bayless, is that you?
It is about "WHEN" and "Body Type". I had a long as crap post that got eaten about the differences between those who gain weight easily and those who can't gain a pound. I wasn't going to rewrite it just for this thread.
In general:
1. Unknown Age - we have no idea which part of the growth curve he is in. For example, I was basically a year ahead of everyone -> 130 (FR-14), 135 (SO-15), 155 (JR - 16), 165 (SR - 17), 187 (FR College - 18). Notice there are some huge jumps in there based on age (and I played 4+ hours of basketball every day).
2. Unknown Body Type - Some kids gain weight easily and some can't gain anything. Based on how he looks, he resembles a meso/endomorph and could (depending on which) gain weight easily. Colvin and Straight (in your examples) were ectomorphs and fall into the don't gain weight easily category. Peterson was a pure mesomorph.
3. No idea if that 190 is correct. Lighter guys tend to lie about their weight and push it up (which honestly I'd say was the case with both Strait and Colvin).
Pulling up some older guys ->
Rocky Calmus (JR) -> 6'2 - 190
Roy Williams -> 6'0 - 180 (he is probably the best analog since he was an endomorph and had to fight weight gain his entire time at OU)
jkm, if I remember correctly you are the LB guru of this particular OU fan site. I have a soft spot for walk-ons. What are your thoughts on a WO legacy by uncle and his chances for playing time down the road? Jaxon Uhles will be xfering to OU this spring from Pitt St. He seems to have a Tom Wort type of body and was very productive (166 tackles his Sr. yr) at NN with Jordan Evans.
http://www.hudl.com/athlete/o/682590...ights/18261424
Mike Stoops: "F*ck me. " - Quoted during the FAMU game following the 1st quarter timeout for 12 men on field.
Colvin's 180 sounds about right in HS, and that's from having seen him in person multiple times. LBs like Shannon and Lindley are barely recognizable now, though. A lot of it depends on what position you play. Our CB's don't seem to go through huge transformations like LBs and other positions. There are a lot of great LB prospects that are under 200 lbs, so we recruit them, and then bulk them up. It wouldn't make sense to bulk up a CB to 230-240.
without doing any research, i think the majority of linebackers OU has recruited in the past 4-5 years have been about 190 or less as seniors. as juniors, they probably weighed significantly less. i know nelson was 180 soaking wet as a senior. i think jkm's point is, legitimate 190 as a junior is a pretty big player, and a huge safety. i'm not sure about 40-50, but if a player is that big as a junior in high school, a college strength and conditioning coach could realistically expect him to be 220+ by the time he gets settled in on campus.
I don't really make any observations until I see them play here.
First, you should know me well enough to know I don't put much (if any) emphasis on "rankings". So, I never really care what the services say.
Secondly, outside of Parker and Jordan Thomas, I'm not convinced any of the other DBs we signed in this class are going to be starters in the next two years. My thinking is geared more toward the 2013 class. I can easily see L.J. Moore and Stanvon Taylor starting ahead of this kid (or any of the true CBs we signed this year), and it's going to be tough for anyone to break the safety depth chart in the next few years (Byrd, Thomas, Parker and J. Thomas).
Lastly, what I see when I look at his film:
He's not exceptionally fast, but does close well for this stage in his career. His size is confusing to me (in that I really don't know where he fits on the field...is he a cover guy, or a safety/nickle hybrid?). His cover skills are raw: he takes his eyes off of the ball early (consistently), and has a tendency to drop too early. I like his overall physical style, and like I said, he does seem to be quick to react, but he in no way looks remotely ready to come in and compete as a true freshman.
The problem is that the only tape available is from his junior year, so there is a lot that can happen between now and when he suits up for his first game in Norman. Still, I think he's going to be an almost assured redshirt, and could develop into a solid contributor in time.
There's a flaw in that logic though...
There's no way to know what kind of body Strait (or any recruit) had/has coming into OU, versus what they leave with. There's no way a kid can spend 4 years in an elite program, undergoing the S&C/nutrition program that accompanies it, and leave the "same". It's physically impossible for a player to go through a strength program as stringent as OU's, and lose muscle mass. I'm not saying Strait came in with 50 pounds of fat (because we all know that's not true), but clearly he had some bad weight that he shed during his time at OU, in addition to adding muscle mass.
There are the rare cases when a kid arrives on campus in similar shape as when he leaves (AD for example), but that's definitely the minority. We may see another one soon in Samaje Perine.
There is no flaw, it is what was reported. Everyone can try to make up a bunch of BS...but that is all it is.
The thought of someone trying to convince everyone that from his junior year till the time he is finished in college that a player gains 40-50 pounds is a absurd.
Is gaining that much weight possible? Yes. But to say it is how it normally happens for recruits in Johnson's position, is misleading.
As far as losing muscle mass, I doubt any player/recruit loses muscle mass. I think they actually gain it.
However, they may have to lose weight to gain healthy weight. I had to when I reported to college. I reported at 280. They had me on a diet to lose 15 pounds. Then I gained muscle once hitting the target weight. It caused me to gain back up to 285 after the first year.
I would say that may be what happens at OU with some recruits/players. Their weight may be deemed unhealthy, so they lose the fat and unhealthy weight. Then gain back healthy weight.
Skip Bayless, is that you?
Okay, so you give two guys out of how many? I gave three guys and compared their recruit profiles to their NFL profiles.
Lets fact it, it isn't as typical as you want to believe.
Skip Bayless, is that you?
You always act as if your opinion is correct. Face it, it isn't on this. It is not typical of any player that comes into college to gain 40-50 pounds. Yes, it happens, but it is not the norm.
Hell, Linemen generally gain 25-40 pounds. Some LBs the same. A lot of it depends on the the position, their body frame, and the weight they enter with.
To say that Johnson coming in as big as he is isn't good, is not exactly being honest. There is no way they are going to give him a workout program to gain 40-50 pounds. In fact, they may ask him to lose the bad weight and gain the good weight (muscle) back and maintain his weight.
IMHO, he is build more like a safety than a cornerback, but they did recruit him as a CB.
Skip Bayless, is that you?
You need tag yourself as "Irony Impaired". I can't remember one single response to any of my posts that you didn't say "YOU ARE WRONG!!!11". Heck, even ones where I'm agreeing with you, you say I'm wrong (like the one on the football board).
As for this discussion, there is only one verifiable set of numbers -> The combine. We can't have any confidence in any other numbers prior to those. My 40-50 lb statement was simply taking end game numbers 220-230 for the guy he most resembled (Corey Nelson) and adding 10 pounds to the final weight (difference between starting weights) and subtracting his weight from them. Had I stuck with he'll be somewhere around 225-230 at OU you probably wouldn't have batted an eye.
The key thing is that our program hasn't shown much concern over guys keeping their weight at a certain level. If a guy gains 3 lbs and it is all muscle then we are good with that. We just don't seem to be big on establishing "playing weights" and morphing body types within that number.
There are 2 positions where we see this more often than others -> Linebacker and Defensive End. I'd say it is the norm at DE and semi-common at LB.
I agree, some linemen gain 60+ pounds (see Messner, Chris). Each position tends to have a range of gain depending on frame size (Linebacker is probably 15-25 avg with 40-50 on the high end)
The kid doesn't have much bad weight to lose. He is probably at 15-18% body fat as it is. If you compare pics of him and Corey Nelson they look very very similar with this kid maybe being a little broader in the shoulders.
I can agree with you. My issue is mainly from Mike's history with big DBs. He had a huge problem in his last tenure with grabbing guys that gained too much weight to play effectively in the secondary. This, coupled with BV's grabbing guys who couldn't gain weight at linebacker caused us to have a lot of guys who were tweeners LB/Safeties.
Then you are senile. I agree with some of your posts. But the ones where you come strolling in acting as if your word is authority and you know as fact are the ones I dispute. Because most of the time, your "factual" posts are nothing more than opinion and uneducated guesses.
If I had the time, I would go through all seniors alone on this coming team and compare the numbers. But i don't, I will be willing to GUESS, that my side of this little debate is more the norm than yours.
Hell, Ill make time and do the last 3 or 4 senior classes.
Skip Bayless, is that you?
Sweet, so you'll have all of their JR in high school numbers and you'll only be doing the oddball body types right? The ones in our tweener range -> LB, DE, S (big ones, not the lean guys).
Actually we dont' even need all of this. According to this (no idea how accurate it is) -> http://www.thefootballacademy-llc.co...ol_Athlete.pdf -> the average player does a 15% year over year weight gain. So if we have their senior year weight we can backtrack to get their junior year weight gain. However, I think that 15% may be a little high (since a 180 player would gain 24 pounds) we should probably discount it back to 10% to be safe. That would put someone at 160 as a junior at 176 as a senior. That means that in college if they gain 24 to 34 lbs they would be the range that I gave. That would put them at 210 at safety which is fairly reasonable for the larger chaps.
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