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  1. #1
    Baylor Ambassador SicEmBaylor's Avatar
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    Big Brother Files

    Several of you around here still seem to have your head in the sand that this country is turning into a Big Brother police state. I'm just going to reserve this thread to continuall post the latest evidence of such.

    I give you the SCOTUS decision allowing cops to take your DNA immediately upon arrest well before you've been charged much less convicted of a crime.

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20130603/DA6MB4680.html

  2. #2
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: Big Brother Files

    But IF you've done Nothing wrong you have nothing to fear!
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  3. #3
    Vacuums eat while yelling

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    Re: Big Brother Files

    It's timely, because CBS is returning its sh!tty Big Brother show to the airwaves soon. It's summer after all

  4. #4
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 OULenexaman's Avatar
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    Re: Big Brother Files

    The popo would never mishandle DNA samples....what could possibly go wrong??

  5. #5
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    Re: Big Brother Files

    Quote Originally Posted by olevetonahill View Post
    But IF you've done Nothing wrong you have nothing to fear!
    And, if you have, then you're in deep trouble. Interesting to note that
    three of the four dissenters are so-called left of center....

    I think it's good that this guy got caught. I really don't have a problem
    with that process. Oh my, I just said I agreed with right wing justices
    of the Supreme Court.

  6. #6
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 OULenexaman's Avatar
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    Re: Big Brother Files

    you'll live...

  7. #7
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 BermudaSooner's Avatar
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    Re: Big Brother Files

    Well, it is an interesting question. So SicEm, do you also believe that fingerprinting is a violation of your rights as well? In other words, is this any different than fingerprinting? I'm willing to bet fingerprinting and a fingerprinting database has led to the capture of thousands of criminals that would have never been caught. Why is DNA different?

    (BTW, I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but am curious to hear the debate).
    "You get no moral credit for forcing other people to do what you think is right."---Penn Jillette

    "It's what I do, I drink and I know things."---Tyrion Lannister

  8. #8
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member
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    Re: Big Brother Files

    Quote Originally Posted by OULenexaman View Post
    you'll live...
    I dunno, soon as I realized I might have crossed over, my
    heart started racing, shortness of breath, tingling down my
    left arm...

  9. #9
    Baylor Ambassador SicEmBaylor's Avatar
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    Re: Big Brother Files

    Quote Originally Posted by BermudaSooner View Post
    Well, it is an interesting question. So SicEm, do you also believe that fingerprinting is a violation of your rights as well? In other words, is this any different than fingerprinting? I'm willing to bet fingerprinting and a fingerprinting database has led to the capture of thousands of criminals that would have never been caught. Why is DNA different?

    (BTW, I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but am curious to hear the debate).
    Good question. The Supreme Court doesn't seem to differentiate, at this point, between different types of biometrics which should leave the door open for iris scans as well.

    However, I absolutely don't believe in being forced to give the government anything until you're actually convicted of a crime and that includes fingerprints. However many criminals have been caught using various forms of biometrics is well beside the point. Mandatory surveillance cameras in every single room of every home and on every street corner would also help catch a lot of criminals, but hopefully as a society we're not willing to go that far. I just wish we weren't so accepting of the government's demand that we give them deeply personal identifying information for a national database until we're actually convicted of having done something wrong and illegal.

  10. #10
    Sooner Starter SoonerInFortSmith's Avatar
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    Go ahead and just record everyone's DNA at birth. Dead body? Easily identifiable. Rape case? Instantly know who the perp is. Any crime where the perp left hair or blood or tissue behind? Case solved.


    Olevet Posse Executioner
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  11. #11
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member KABOOKIE's Avatar
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    Re: Big Brother Files

    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerInFortSmith View Post
    Go ahead and just record everyone's DNA at birth. Dead body? Easily identifiable. Rape case? Instantly know who the perp is. Any crime where the perp left hair or blood or tissue behind? Case solved.
    That'll be awesome. When you innocently brush your hair in your friends bathroom and leave a few strands behind after you're done and leave their house. Then two hours later your friend is brutally murdered. Nice knowing you.

  12. #12
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: Big Brother Files

    Quote Originally Posted by rock on sooner View Post
    And, if you have, then you're in deep trouble. Interesting to note that
    three of the four dissenters are so-called left of center....

    I think it's good that this guy got caught. I really don't have a problem
    with that process. Oh my, I just said I agreed with right wing justices
    of the Supreme Court.
    I were being a Smartass.
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  13. #13
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: Big Brother Files

    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerInFortSmith View Post
    Go ahead and just record everyone's DNA at birth. Dead body? Easily identifiable. Rape case? Instantly know who the perp is. Any crime where the perp left hair or blood or tissue behind? Case solved.
    I'll just send your a$$ back in time to a waiting blunderbuss....

  14. #14
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member KantoSooner's Avatar
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    Re: Big Brother Files

    If you have no reasonable assumption of privacy, there's no problem with it.
    For example: if you walk on a street and are photographed and that photograph is used to ID as being a fugitive, you really have no complaint.
    Likewise if you leave fingerprints on a water glass as a restaurant. You left them voluntarily, you got up and walked away.
    Or if you leave the aforementioned hair follicles, chew gum and spit it out, spit on the street or any of a number of things you might do and leave DNA behind.
    It's a question of invasiveness. And, barring profiling or some other police misconduct, collection of DNA during a stop is just not a big intrusion.

    I think that the time and energy spent on 'issues' such as this detract from more important fights and simply dilute the civil liberties cause.
    "I don't know karate, but I know ka-razor!" - James Brown

  15. #15
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    Re: Big Brother Files

    Quote Originally Posted by olevetonahill View Post
    I were being a Smartass.
    I just wanted to make the point of 3 left of center justices
    were dissenting....

  16. #16
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: Big Brother Files

    Quote Originally Posted by rock on sooner View Post
    I just wanted to make the point of 3 left of center justices
    were dissenting....
    Oh so you were being a smartass also?
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  17. #17
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member KABOOKIE's Avatar
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    Re: Big Brother Files

    Quote Originally Posted by KantoSooner View Post
    If you have no reasonable assumption of privacy, there's no problem with it.
    For example: if you walk on a street and are photographed and that photograph is used to ID as being a fugitive, you really have no complaint.
    Likewise if you leave fingerprints on a water glass as a restaurant. You left them voluntarily, you got up and walked away.
    Or if you leave the aforementioned hair follicles, chew gum and spit it out, spit on the street or any of a number of things you might do and leave DNA behind.
    It's a question of invasiveness. And, barring profiling or some other police misconduct, collection of DNA during a stop is just not a big intrusion.

    I think that the time and energy spent on 'issues' such as this detract from more important fights and simply dilute the civil liberties cause.
    Yeah, big brother is to be trusted. You have nothing to fear....

    Studies of DNA databases elsewhere have revealed similar findings. In 2006, for instance, Illinois officials searched the state's offender database, which at the time contained 233,000 profiles. They found 903 pairs with nine or more matching DNA markers. Among geneticists and statisticians, these findings have eroded faith in the FBI’s DNA rarity statistics, which were based on data from just 200 or 300 people and are used by crime labs across the country. Laurence Mueller, an ecology and evolutionary biology professor at University of California, Irvine, told me that anyone who knows statistics finds the figures "laughable."

  18. #18
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: Big Brother Files

    Quote Originally Posted by SicEmBaylor View Post
    Mandatory surveillance cameras in every single room of every home and on every street corner
    These are two very different things. It is a little creepy being recorded so many places but in public spaces you don't have the expectation of privacy.

    In your home that's a different matter but we're nowhere near that sort of threat. Unless you're on probation or something no court would allow that.

    Your neighbor could have cameras installed in his own house for his own security (but may have to put up a sign notifying visitors of such and can't do it in areas where privacy is expected).

  19. #19
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: Big Brother Files

    Quote Originally Posted by KABOOKIE View Post
    That'll be awesome. When you innocently brush your hair in your friends bathroom and leave a few strands behind after you're done and leave their house. Then two hours later your friend is brutally murdered. Nice knowing you.
    If you're visiting your friend two hours before s/he is murdered you're going to be questioned anyway. You'd probably be best to go ahead and tell them you were there and you used his/her brush.

    So in that case having your DNA ahead of time probably isn't going to make a difference...

  20. #20
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member KABOOKIE's Avatar
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    Re: Big Brother Files

    Quote Originally Posted by jkjsooner View Post
    If you're visiting your friend two hours before s/he is murdered you're going to be questioned anyway. You'd probably be best to go ahead and tell them you were there and you used his/her brush.

    So in that case having your DNA ahead of time probably isn't going to make a difference...

    I'd like to think probably is not a good strategy for my defense. You may want to read my next post about how DNA isn't so statistically cracked up as the government would have you believe.

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