Another solar panel maker that got $400 Million of gobment stimulus is declaring bankruptcy.
And the gobment wants more of our $$$$!?
http://www.denverpost.com/commented/...rce=commented-
Another solar panel maker that got $400 Million of gobment stimulus is declaring bankruptcy.
And the gobment wants more of our $$$$!?
http://www.denverpost.com/commented/...rce=commented-
How can there be too many children?
That is like saying there are too many flowers.
Mother Teresa
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(Or, too many tax-payers!)
Fracking killed the solar star.
No it is the Chinese dumping panels on our market that is killing our local industries. We really need to hit them with some tariffs.Originally Posted by cleller
So then the question is, if you know this to be the case, why doesn't our government know this to be the case?
And if they know this to be the case, then why are we dumping millions of dollars in to a failed solar company business model?
"Hey, we'll give em several hundred million even though we know the Chinese are going to under cut 'em and they won't survive."
Good plan Obama.
If we tariff them, they will just tariff our stuff going over there so that's pretty much a nonstarter.
"We still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping at the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised to furnish new pretenses for revenue and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without a tribute."
-- Thomas Paine
They buy a 100 billion a year from us....they sell us 400 billion a year....I would be nailing their azz if it wasn't for them buying our debt with the profits they make from us...
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If God wanted Men to look women in the eyes, He wouldnt have gave em Boobs !
Exactly! We are not playing on a level playing field. They have devalued the yuan and they continue to subsidize their industries. The Chinese army owns half of them and they will eat losses until they dominate the market. In the meantime we have people who are screaming because we have spent about $600 million to compete with them when they are spending billions.
The tire industry was getting hammered by Chinese imports...a few years back we put a big tariff on tires from China...30% or something...China countered with their own tariff on US goods....I can't remember the final outcome...
Goodyear built a state of the art tire plant in Tyler...it was specifically built to combat cheap imported tires..robotics, computerized machine set up and changeovers...the first use of barcodes in the tire industry...we were very competitive in all output, waste, and safety metrics...
But by the mid 90's Pep Boys in Tyler was selling a Chinese import tire at a price that was less than our factory cost of the same size tire...
We messed around with some numbers...the plant would need to cut about 10% of its workforce, eliminate all waste, and no overtime...at that point the Tyler factory cost of the tire was within 5% of what Pep Boys was selling the import...
In summary...if the Tyler plant was run to perfection... the out the factory door cost of the tire was still 5% higher than the Chinese tires that were produced, shipped, marketed, and retailed to Pep Boys, who made a profit...
So the question still is, why did we waste another $400 million on a company that we knew couldn't survive?
Pride? Kickbacks to campaign bundlers? Wanting to look like the cool kids on the block?
Makes no sense.
"We still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping at the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised to furnish new pretenses for revenue and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without a tribute."
-- Thomas Paine
The real question IMHO is why did we Not protect that investment from foreign competition ?
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If God wanted Men to look women in the eyes, He wouldnt have gave em Boobs !
Either way. Either protect an investment, or don't make the investment.
The way it turned out we just threw money away. I'm betting the owners were Obama bundlers or at least, heavily Dem contributors.
"We still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping at the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised to furnish new pretenses for revenue and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without a tribute."
-- Thomas Paine
---Why do we care if they "dominate the market" of a product that is not needed and does not appear to have any barriers to entry at a later date?
Yup. Its an either Or deal
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If God wanted Men to look women in the eyes, He wouldnt have gave em Boobs !
Because at some point they will get solar right and we will be left with our just or dick in our hands. The future is not fossil energy.
Which future? One 100 years from now or the one 20 years from now?
If you had to choose...which energy source would be dominant 30 years from now? 50 years from now?
The "future" in my lifetime will almost assuredly be dominated by fossil fuels.
40-50 years from now.
Okie if they can make solar much more effecient it will be the way to go.
It makes sense that at some point in the future solar will be the deal. It is the "one source" that has always been here, and will always be, as long as life is sustainable.
Only economics will push it into first place while other sources are still available. Its been just about 30 years since we started hearing the oil was about to disappear, but somehow that keeps getting pushed back.
Now we have an abundance of gas no one expected. This could be used to create electricity and fuel, at a cost US citizens could afford. Then politics starts getting involved.
That's what they were saying 50 years ago.
I think solar energy has a future. However, unlike the moron in the WH, I wouldn't sell out the present and foreseeable future for what is now a pie in he sky.
1. There is no such thing as 'dumping'. If someone sells me something below cost, it's a 'good deal' and may god bless him until he goes out of business. (In today's world, you can build a factory to build anything in under 12 months. The old worry that someone would corner a market through 'dumping' and then jack prices doesn't hold anymore.)
2. The Chinese are not selling panetls below cost. What they are doing is taking advantage of a surplus of low diameter silicon production. Chip makers have laregely transitioned to 300mm (12") wafers, making production of 100mm, 125mm, 150mm and even 200mm wafers non-economic for chip production. Who bought up the production equipment for these smaller diameters? Yup. The Chinese. Why? because they were committed to the solar business. Why? Because we, the Japanese, even the Koreans and Taiwanese didn't see enough return to it. By the time we changed our minds, the Chinese had the relatively low tech installed base to make themselves damn near permanently low cost producers.
It will take a new technology twist that radically changes the cost structure for us to get into this game. Government subsidies for companies based in ultra high cost areas (California, for example) are about as likely to succeed as burning the money and dancing in a circle chanting druid spells.
The US likewise opted out of flat panel production in the early 1990's when we had a shot at controlling that sector. Oh well (says the guy who dumped 4 years of his life into a panel venture).
"I don't know karate, but I know ka-razor!" - James Brown
Then invest in research, not a company that's apparently the high cost producer in a commodity market. If you're getting run out of business by dumpers than you are making a commodity, not something technologically advanced. This thing is more out of control crony capitalism. I'm sure some Obama supporters got rich creating these doomed businesses.
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