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Thread: Barry vs Israel

  1. #61
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    Re: Barry vs Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthCarolinaSooner View Post
    "Common mistake" as your link says, but I really guess you would want to get into a debate over semantics, since you are apparently poorly informed about the topic at hand. Where do you think persecution of Jews is a problem in the developed world? I realize Juche isn't purely a religion, but its included in most adherents lists. Hence why I included the "lol" afterwards...

    I agree that I didn't put Buddhism as a major religion, but they too want a country (Tibet) that is predominantly Buddhist.


    -Antisemitism:
    Germany WAS developed and persecuted Jews and I clearly used the word "if" when I talked about (future) persecution. May be you can read from Wikipedia about that too.
    Anyways, imo, there is a good reason for every developed country to support Israel.

    poorly informed about the topic at hand?? How did you come to that conclusion??

  2. #62
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    Re: Barry vs Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by 5thYearSooner View Post
    I agree that I didn't put Buddhism as a major religion, but they too want a country (Tibet) that is predominantly Buddhist.


    -Antisemitism:
    Germany WAS developed and persecuted Jews and I clearly used the word "if" when I talked about (future) persecution. May be you can read from Wikipedia about that too.
    Anyways, imo, there is a good reason for every developed country to support Israel.

    poorly informed about the topic at hand?? How did you come to that conclusion??
    Not speaking specifically to your case, but it usually just means you hold an opinion contrary to whomever says that to you.
    Last edited by Curly Bill; 4/16/2012 at 02:31 PM.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Barry vs Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by 5thYearSooner View Post
    I agree that I didn't put Buddhism as a major religion, but they too want a country (Tibet) that is predominantly Buddhist.


    -Antisemitism:
    Germany WAS developed and persecuted Jews and I clearly used the word "if" when I talked about (future) persecution. May be you can read from Wikipedia about that too.
    Anyways, imo, there is a good reason for every developed country to support Israel.

    poorly informed about the topic at hand?? How did you come to that conclusion??
    I came to that conclusion when you erroneously stated Judaism had the fourth largest religious following in the world.

    German persecution of Jews has less to do with being a developed nation (yes, they were), more to do with the fact a merciless leader exploited horrendous political and economic conditions. I do not think in the current era that it is possible for such persecution to occur in the western world, that was my point on "developed" nations. If you can't see the difference in 1933 Germany and 2012 Germany or any other western nation in terms of development, there's not much I can say to you.

    A good reason, such as?

  4. #64
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    Re: Barry vs Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthCarolinaSooner View Post
    I came to that conclusion when you erroneously stated Judaism had the fourth largest religious following in the world.

    German persecution of Jews has less to do with being a developed nation (yes, they were), more to do with the fact a merciless leader exploited horrendous political and economic conditions. I do not think in the current era that it is possible for such persecution to occur in the western world, that was my point on "developed" nations. If you can't see the difference in 1933 Germany and 2012 Germany or any other western nation in terms of development, there's not much I can say to you.

    A good reason, such as?
    Ha ha ..Had you said I was poorly informed about the size of religious populations, you conclusion would have been correct.
    The topic at hand isn't the size of the religions is it?

    Also I never said persecution WILL happen..I clearly (repeatedly) said "if" persecution were to happen..I too don't think(and hope) in the current era it will happen..but IF it happens, then....

    Germany was developed for that era (meaning..compared to other countries of THAT era)..no point comparing 1933 to 2012...

    Also 70 -80 years is just a blip in the history..you never know how things could change..There are/were/will be always war mongers..

    Anyways here is something off the topic to ponder..

    Look at Afghanistan 40 -50 years ago..
    http://articles.cnn.com/2009-08-19/w...om?_s=PM:WORLD

    I dont know how old you are but People who have seen that Afghanistan are still alive....
    Last edited by 5thYearSooner; 4/16/2012 at 03:21 PM.

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    Re: Barry vs Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by AlboSooner View Post
    Many countries have companies in the stock market. I don't see the president swearing allegiance to every country who has companies in the stock market. The Mossad rides in the coattails of the CIA.
    Exactly. If those companies want security, have 'em relocate to the U.S.

  6. #66
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    Re: Barry vs Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by 5thYearSooner View Post
    Ha ha ..Had you said I was poorly informed about the size of religious populations, you conclusion would have been correct.
    The topic at hand isn't the size of the religions is it?

    Also I never said persecution WILL happen..I clearly (repeatedly) said "if" persecution were to happen..I too don't think(and hope) in the current era it will happen..but IF it happens, then....

    Germany was developed for that era (meaning..compared to other countries of THAT era)..no point comparing 1933 to 2012...

    Also 70 -80 years is just a blip in the history..you never know how things could change..There are/were/will be always war mongers..

    Anyways here is something off the topic to ponder..

    Look at Afghanistan 40 -50 years ago..
    http://articles.cnn.com/2009-08-19/w...om?_s=PM:WORLD

    I dont know how old you are but People who have seen that Afghanistan are still alive....
    It seems relevant to the discussion at hand, but carry on.

    You know I totally agree that you never know how things can change, hell the Jews went from being kicked out out of their own homes in the 30s and 40s to kicking ~700,000 Palestenians out of their homes in '48. For what its worth, I don't disagree with the principal existence of an Israeli state, just the manner in which they conduct their state. This idea that "they only can live in Israel without persecution" is ridiculous, though.

  7. #67
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    Re: Barry vs Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthCarolinaSooner View Post
    It seems relevant to the discussion at hand, but carry on.

    You know I totally agree that you never know how things can change, hell the Jews went from being kicked out out of their own homes in the 30s and 40s to kicking ~700,000 Palestenians out of their homes in '48. For what its worth, I don't disagree with the principal existence of an Israeli state, just the manner in which they conduct their state. This idea that "they only can live in Israel without persecution" is ridiculous, though.
    It might seem ridiculous now but in 30s and 40s that was legit. I know a lot of Jews moved here to USA and else where but still when people of a religion is targeted the way Jews were, it makes sense(imo) why they wanted Israel state.(How they got it is a different matter)

    Also, I agree that the displacement of Palestinians gives them the right to claim their land (I see it as the continuation of religious wars in Jerusalem).

    Since its a stale mate with both sides having compelling arguments, the international community mostly votes for status-quo and non provocation from either side.

    Religion man Religion!!

  8. #68
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    Re: Barry vs Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by 5thYearSooner View Post

    Since its a stale mate with both sides having compelling arguments, the international community mostly votes for status-quo and non provocation from either side.

    Religion man Religion!!
    Usually the international community votes in favor of Palestine, but the only international organization with any binding authority (Sec Council) has US veto for anything "anti-Israel", like a condemnation of Israeli expansion into the West Bank or Palestinian statehood.

  9. #69
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    Re: Barry vs Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by 5thYearSooner View Post
    I agree that I didn't put Buddhism as a major religion, but they too want a country (Tibet) that is predominantly Buddhist.
    I'm a bit baffled by this statement.

    According to Wikipedia, Buddhism was the world's largest religion in 1951 with 520mn adherents, compared to Christianity with 500mn. Now, it is ranked fourth behind Christianity, Islam and Hinduism. But increasing religious freedom in China, Vietnam among some other countries in the region and growing popularity of Buddhism in Europe and the US means that Buddhism may again become the largest religion of choice.

    I have no idea why you mentioned Tibet, except for the exiled Dalai Lama and their fight against Chinese persecution and political freedom.

    Buddhists have many countries that will support them, including Thailand (94.6% of the total population Buddhists), Cambodia (95%), Sri Lanka (70%), Burma (89%) and Laos (67%). In Vietnam, as many as 80% of the population ascribe to Tam Đạo ("Triple religion"): a mixture of Mahayana Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism and ancestor worship. In Japan, estimates suggest that at least 84% subscribe to a mixture of Buddhism or Shinto. In China, 660mn or around 50% of the population believe in a mix of Buddhism, Taoism, ancestor worship and Chinese folk religions.

    I don't know why I'm defending Buddhism because it is the one religion that really doesn't need to be defended or really takes itself too seriously. Okay, just forget this post.

    And, I really wish that religion wouldn't enter into our national political discourse.
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  10. #70
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    Re: Barry vs Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by AlboSooner View Post
    Many countries have companies in the stock market. I don't see the president swearing allegiance to every country who has companies in the stock market. The Mossad rides in the coattails of the CIA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Midtowner View Post
    Exactly. If those companies want security, have 'em relocate to the U.S.
    Look, I'm not arguing that we pour too much money into Israel, so I want to be clear on that. However, currently Israel has more companies listed on the NASDAQ than any other country (outside of the US). I'm not saying that's great, or that it sucks, I'm just saying that's how it is. Thus, there is a US interest in Israel. Like it, or not.

    And Midtowner, you're an educated person, you know as well as I do that you don't just say "relocate to the US if you want safety".

    Albo, the countries that do have significant listings on the US exchanges are primarily in secure countries (Germany, Japan, etc). Israel sits in the worst region in the world (as far as "secure countries" are concerned).

    Again, I'm not saying we should be sending the kind of money we send to Israel, in fact, I don't think we should be sending anybody (save for the UK) aid until we are in good shape at home. But that's just not the way it is.

    What stumps me is the mentality that we should abandon Israel altogether. Why do people single out Israel? If it's because of the amount of aid, I understand. If there is another reason, I'd like to hear it.

  11. #71
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    Re: Barry vs Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by 8timechamps View Post
    And Midtowner, you're an educated person, you know as well as I do that you don't just say "relocate to the US if you want safety".
    Halliburton relocated its corporate HQ to the UAE. Can you tell me why this is impossible?

    Albo, the countries that do have significant listings on the US exchanges are primarily in secure countries (Germany, Japan, etc). Israel sits in the worst region in the world (as far as "secure countries" are concerned).
    How much should the U.S. taxpayer spend to protect Fortune 500 companies and stock listings which really only benefit the top.1% or so of our country?

    Again, I'm not saying we should be sending the kind of money we send to Israel, in fact, I don't think we should be sending anybody (save for the UK) aid until we are in good shape at home. But that's just not the way it is.

    What stumps me is the mentality that we should abandon Israel altogether. Why do people single out Israel? If it's because of the amount of aid, I understand. If there is another reason, I'd like to hear it.
    1) because of the amount of aid; and 2) the ration of **** we get from foreign governments for our unblinking support of this state simply isn't worth it. Now I'm fine selling Israel weapons (so long as they pay instead of the U.S. taxpayers), but the cost of doing business just isn't worth it. All things considered, there is no rational reason why we should consider our fate tied to theirs.

  12. #72
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    Re: Barry vs Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Midtowner View Post
    Halliburton relocated its corporate HQ to the UAE. Can you tell me why this is impossible?
    It's possible, but you and I both know there is no way it's going to happen.


    Quote Originally Posted by Midtowner View Post
    How much should the U.S. taxpayer spend to protect Fortune 500 companies and stock listings which really only benefit the top.1% or so of our country?
    I don't follow you. Anyone that is invested in a mutual fund or stock that is listed on the NASDAQ is benefiting. My career is directly tied to the markets, as is the 13 people I employ and thousands of other US citizens.


    Quote Originally Posted by Midtowner View Post
    1) because of the amount of aid; and 2) the ration of **** we get from foreign governments for our unblinking support of this state simply isn't worth it. Now I'm fine selling Israel weapons (so long as they pay instead of the U.S. taxpayers), but the cost of doing business just isn't worth it. All things considered, there is no rational reason why we should consider our fate tied to theirs.
    From the aid standpoint, I agree. Do we really get a lot of **** from foreign governments outside of that region? What about protecting democracy? I think every president that has ever sat in the WH has said that is an important priority for our nation. Do I think that justifies the amount of aid? No. I'm like you, I'd be fine if we just sold weapons. And, I personally don't think our fate is tied to their fate. Israel can do just fine protecting it's own. I have no issue with leaving it at that.

    I think my point is still being missed. Like it, or not. Support it, or not. The US does have interest in Israel. Do I like it? Not really. But, that's how it stands, and nothing you or I can do will change that.

  13. #73
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    Re: Barry vs Israel

    For starters, I'm actually fine with our President not treating Israel like a sacred cow.

  14. #74
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    Re: Barry vs Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Bao View Post
    I'm a bit baffled by this statement.

    According to Wikipedia, Buddhism was the world's largest religion in 1951 with 520mn adherents, compared to Christianity with 500mn. Now, it is ranked fourth behind Christianity, Islam and Hinduism. But increasing religious freedom in China, Vietnam among some other countries in the region and growing popularity of Buddhism in Europe and the US means that Buddhism may again become the largest religion of choice.

    I have no idea why you mentioned Tibet, except for the exiled Dalai Lama and their fight against Chinese persecution and political freedom.

    Buddhists have many countries that will support them, including Thailand (94.6% of the total population Buddhists), Cambodia (95%), Sri Lanka (70%), Burma (89%) and Laos (67%). In Vietnam, as many as 80% of the population ascribe to Tam Đạo ("Triple religion"): a mixture of Mahayana Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism and ancestor worship. In Japan, estimates suggest that at least 84% subscribe to a mixture of Buddhism or Shinto. In China, 660mn or around 50% of the population believe in a mix of Buddhism, Taoism, ancestor worship and Chinese folk religions.

    I don't know why I'm defending Buddhism because it is the one religion that really doesn't need to be defended or really takes itself too seriously. Okay, just forget this post.

    And, I really wish that religion wouldn't enter into our national political discourse.
    According to your wiki source its 4th largest, according to SCS's source its 2nd. Anyways its wiki. But Thanks for the information. And no need to "defend" Buddhism because no one is "attacking" it. We were discussing persecution and I wanted to use Tibet as an example. That's all. No pun intended.

    When it comes to Israel there cant be a political debate without bringing religion into it because, the country and its foreign policy are based on religion.

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