Anyone? If it's "reforming" a bass-ackward nation of fanatics with hair triggers, perhaps we need to step back and think that over.
Anyone? If it's "reforming" a bass-ackward nation of fanatics with hair triggers, perhaps we need to step back and think that over.
You tell me it's the institution. Well, you know, you'd better free your mind instead.
(Shoo-bee doo-wah)
Our goal, in my mind, was to get bin Laden,
Time to get out before more American lives are lost.
5-0
BOY HOWDY !!!!
Maybe I'm naive but I never understood why nation building is a prerequisite in these situations. I know it worked well after WW2 and maybe a lack of it was a problem after WW1 but I still don't get why we can't just say you harbored and protected those who attacked us and we're removing you. Let them rebuild under the promise that if you harbor terrorists again we will again bomb the crap out of you.
We didn't need to reform the country to make life he'll for Al Quida.
hmmmmm. Y'all praise your boy for getting the troops out of Iraq, and y'all praised him for beefing it up in Afghanistan. Why don't you axe him what we be doing there.
Since Biden said that the Taliban is not our enemy a couple of months ago, I'm not even sure why...
Europe after WW2 was , more-or-less RE-building. There was some vestige of liberal democracy, or people at least understood what liberal democracy was, and they desired it. In Afghanistan, too many people embrace dark-age Islam, and it's pretty much a waste of time trying to get the institutions of liberal democracy to take root in that toxic soil. And getting them to give up their opium is, pardon the choice of words, a pipe dream. In short, it's a culture of oppression and violence and ever shall be. I'd think we could keep an eye out for burgeoning terrorist camps, etc., without wasting men and money in that stinking **** hole.Originally Posted by jkjsooner
You tell me it's the institution. Well, you know, you'd better free your mind instead.
(Shoo-bee doo-wah)
Keeping an eye on Nuclear armed pakistan and playing with those remote controlled toy planes..
We would have to bomb them up to the stone age and that is certainly a problem..
We rebuilt Japan too well....
How do we leave Afghanistan? Do we bomb them back to the stone age (which wouldn't take much) or just leave? I am for us getting out of there. If they attack us again we blow the he11 out of them. 11 years is long enough.
I'm hoping to get Sapp and the boys home.
At first, the goal was to eliminate AQ/Bin Laden and their ability to operate out of there. Then the planners looked at what had caused the mess in the first place and concluded, not unreasonably, that the war against the Soviets had wrecked the traditional power structure and left the place a void into which the Taliban and AQ walked. So, we decided to try and leave something behind that would at least rival that evil duo. In my view, we're about to conclude that, without a hard-*** local warlord who can face down the Talibs and isnt interested in harboring AQ, we're SOL.
Should we have gone in, after OBL? Absolutely. Should we be concerned about what happens when we leave? Absolutely. But I'm not sure we can do much about it; given the lack of a decent-ish war lord conveniently hanging around.
For all those of you who want the troops home now, I'm with you, but rest assured that in so doing we GUARANTEE future terrorist attacks on our territory/people being organized/trained/run from that country.
There isn't an easy answer to this.
"I don't know karate, but I know ka-razor!" - James Brown
I'll be home for football season!
We may suffer some terrorist attacks from Afghanistan after we leave but, if so, then we are only delaying the inevitable and still losing lives and spending an inordinate amount of money in the process.
If we are hit by the Afghanis-AQ-Taliban in the future I would hope we would bomb them into the stone age (heh, I know they're almost there now) and run special ops, etc...
Of course we have punished the taliban, et al, for a long time. Maybe a peace treaty with them now would help matters.
Last edited by okie52; 2/23/2012 at 11:43 AM.
Excellent!!!!!
Not if I have anything to do with it.
Okie, I'm essentially with you, but, absent bases there or in surrounding countries, forget special ops. It's one thing to scoot across a border from your base, or to insert from a submarine onto a shore line; quite another to helicopter across ten hours of hostile airspace. Basically it can't be done.
So, you're left with running a god-awful big CIA operation. Possible, but not without cost and also not capable of exerting pin-point military action in most cases.
Bombing has it's place, but is not terribly effective against people who are not establishing much in the way of bricks and mortar.
When we lost Masood, we lost a last best chance for a semi-acceptable warlord. I'm not seeing another candidate on the horizon; though that's no reason to stop looking.
Most likely scenario? The country becomes a giant Kashmir only with Iran and the 'Stans joining in the meddling. And, every five to ten years some really big atrocity will be given birth to there.
Genghiz Khan may have had the best solution when he leveled an Afghan city, killed everything down to the insects and built a pyramid of heads as a warning to the surrounding territory. Enjoyed peace for almost a generation.
"I don't know karate, but I know ka-razor!" - James Brown
Kanto, heh, I'm with Genghis.
Yes, The Ur-Kahn. Man of action, bon vivant, eater of his own grandmother, ancestor to almost 25% of modern day Asians, Libertarian (very few rules in his domain, essentially unquestioned loyalty and a readiness to step spritely to your horse when beckoned. The rest was up to you.)
It's almost always worth asking, WWGD? (What Would Genghiz Do?)
"I don't know karate, but I know ka-razor!" - James Brown
I like that...WWGD?
The Taliban urged Afghans Thursday to target foreign military bases and kill Westerners in retaliation for burnings of copies of the Quran at NATO's main base in the country as a third day of violent protests began.Two Americans have been killed already and it is Friday morning here, things will only get worse the next couple of days."Our brave people must target the military bases of invader forces, their military convoys and their invader bases," read an emailed Taliban statement released by the insurgency's spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid.
I'm sure glad the Taliban isn't our enemy..
WTF were they thinking on that deal?
if we can't keep straight which holy books to burn, maybe we shouldn't be there at all
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