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  1. #1
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    Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    PARIS — It wasn't yet 8 a.m. when police knocked on Monique Pouille's door, searched her home and took her away — all because she recharged cell phones for illegal migrants.

    The 59-year-old volunteer with several groups in the Calais region of northern France was put behind bars and interrogated for three hours before being freed.

    The French government forbids aiding illegal migrants and sets quotas for arrests of those who do as it tries to control growing clandestine immigration. This year's target: 5,000 arrests.

    Authorities contend the measure is aimed at those who profit financially from those in France illegally. However, the recent episode exemplifies what humanitarian associations and others contend is a concerted effort to harass volunteers who provide a lifeline, or a simple kindness, to illegal aliens in a new dimension of the crackdown on illegal immigration.

    "I think the idea is to send out a strong message, 'Watch out, danger,' and that is scandalous," said Pouille's lawyer, Bruno Dubout, noting other cases in which volunteer workers have been questioned by police, or charged.

    Humanitarian associations plan demonstrations in front of court houses in major cities around France on April 8 to protest what they say is the "crime of solidarity."

    The associations cite an article in the code governing foreigners' right to remain in France that forbids anyone from facilitating or trying to facilitate "the entry, movement or irregular (illegal) stay of a foreigner in France." Doing so is punishable by up to five years in prison and a 30,000-euro fine. But few, if any, activists like Pouille are charged with a crime and spend significant time in prison.


    Quota for arrests
    An addendum on immigration in the 2009 Finance Law sets a quota for arrests of those who "assist" illegal aliens: 5,000 in 2009, 5,500 in 2011.

    The Immigration Ministry, created when President Nicolas Sarkozy took office in 2007, proudly makes public its yearly expulsion quota — the goal of 26,000 expulsions in 2008 went far beyond to 29,796 — but, until now, there had been no talk of quotas for those who help illegals.

    Immigration Minister Eric Besson says the measure is "indispensable" for combating smugglers who profit from migrants — a priority of the center-right government priority.

    "Is patriotism something you like only when it is brandished by Barack Obama?" Besson asked opposition lawmakers last week in the lower house as Socialists prepared a measure to modify the wording of the article on assistance. It is to be debated April 30.


    "In France today there is a real climate of intimidation against those who help" illegal aliens, Catherine Coutelle, a Socialist lawmaker behind the bid to modify the law, said by telephone.

    She said the move to change the law was partly inspired by a movie out this month in France, "Welcome," the story of a Calais swimming instructor who teaches an illegal alien how to swim so he can cross the Channel to Britain.

    Up to 1,800 migrants hoping to sneak into Britain in trucks can be found at any one time in the Calais region, gathered in makeshift camps since the leveling of a Red Cross shelter in Sangatte in 2002. Volunteers like Monique Pouille try to ease their suffering.

    Volunteers 'tracked'
    "We feel that volunteers are being surveyed, tracked ... for insignificant reasons" to discourage working with illegal aliens, said the Rev. Jean-Pierre Boutoille, a Catholic priest who has long helped migrants in Calais.

    Police finally paid a visit to her house Feb. 25. She told the association she works with, Terre d'errance (Land of Roaming), that "they knew a lot about me and the association." No charges were filed. She could not be reached for an interview.

    Jean-Claude Lenoir, a middle school teacher in Calais and vice president of the association Salam, was arrested in November as police, with dogs and a helicopter, rounded up migrants. He appeared in court Feb. 25 in nearby Boulogne-sur-Mer for alleged verbal abuse of police — which he denies — but the proceedings were postponed until June.

    Some 10 days ago, a young woman driving two migrants to a hospital, wearing a vest identifying her as a Salam volunteer, was detained for four hours, Lenoir said, adding "there is pressure, harassment."

    At the southern end of France, in the Mediterranean port city of Marseille, police descended on an Emmaus community Feb. 17, in search of illegal aliens, a day after the arrest of one man without papers who had been given lodging there. An official from the organization was held six hours for questioning, Emmaus said. No charges were filed.

    Teddy Roudaut, communications officer for Emmaus France, said there is no legal definition for someone who assists those without papers, so the law can be applied "to someone who serves soup or ... gives lodging to someone."

    He insisted that Emmaus, an international organization, does not defend smugglers "but the law is so fuzzy it can apply to us."

    There is no global count of the number of volunteers around France who have been detained by police, but said Roudaut of Emmaus, "We're obviously afraid that we're becoming a reservoir for (the Immigration Ministry's) quota."
    Last edited by okie52; 1/11/2012 at 07:41 PM.

  2. #2
    Stayatworkdad yermom's Avatar
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    Re: Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    what's that? you are injured? could i see some ID before i drive you to the hospital?

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    Re: Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    Quote Originally Posted by yermom View Post
    what's that? you are injured? could i see some ID before i drive you to the hospital?
    Can hospital workers help? Probably better to leave him on the side of the road.

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    Baylor Ambassador SicEmBaylor's Avatar
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    Re: Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    Quote Originally Posted by yermom View Post
    what's that? you are injured? could i see some ID before i drive you to the hospital?
    I'm okay with this. I think France has the right idea. If you so much as give an illegal the time of day then you ought to suffer consequences on a truly unimaginable scale. It's draconian, but it's ultimately the only way you're going to serious crack down on the Mexican plague.

  5. #5
    I'm a shootist Curly Bill's Avatar
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    Re: Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    Finally the French are doing something right.
    Behold the pale horse. The man who sat on him was death, and Hell followed with him.

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    Winner of the Nobel Peace Prize 2015.

  6. #6
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    The French have had screwed up immigration issues for a long time. Honestly I don't see illegal immigration as a bad thing if you don't have welfare. Or you would have to make a law where illegals cannot be eligible for welfare in any possible way.
    "Begging hands and bleeding hearts will only cry out for more" - Neil Peart

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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Jacie's Avatar
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    Re: Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    No more "ooh la la" . . .

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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member KantoSooner's Avatar
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    Re: Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    While I agree with the French in principle on this one, a much simpler method is available: make it impossible to get work. You do this two ways:

    1. Workplace inspections. You'd need procedures, probable cause, yadda yadda, because you don't want some beetle browed government workers taking this as carte blanche to go rousting workplaces. And most government workers are just socialist/communist enough to enjoy the prospect of disrupting for-profit endeavours.

    2. Lock up the managers and owners who hire illegals and start fining them and forfeiting their personal belongings. How many roofing contractors would risk THEIR house to hire some 'off the books' Messicans? How many South Texas cotton farmers would look the other way while their managers hired illegals if it meant 'buhbye' to the big house and six months in an orange jump suit pickinig up trash beside the highway?

    This stuff isn't complicated and you don't need to focus on some granny giving a thirsty man a glass of water on a hot day.
    "I don't know karate, but I know ka-razor!" - James Brown

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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member sooner_born_1960's Avatar
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    Re: Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    There is probably a joke somewhere in there, about how France has a history of rolling out the red carpet for illegal German immigration.
    Real Name: Mark

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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member KantoSooner's Avatar
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    Re: Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    ...or English, Viking, Spanish, Dutch, Italian...and the list goes on.

    they're about overdue to lose track of their national sovereignty and having to ask the Anglo-Saxon nations to get their flashlights and come help look for it.
    "I don't know karate, but I know ka-razor!" - James Brown

  11. #11
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    Re: Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    If our illegals were coming from North Africa I would probably favor more Draconian measures as well.

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    Re: Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    Quote Originally Posted by KantoSooner View Post
    While I agree with the French in principle on this one, a much simpler method is available: make it impossible to get work. You do this two ways:

    1. Workplace inspections. You'd need procedures, probable cause, yadda yadda, because you don't want some beetle browed government workers taking this as carte blanche to go rousting workplaces. And most government workers are just socialist/communist enough to enjoy the prospect of disrupting for-profit endeavours.

    2. Lock up the managers and owners who hire illegals and start fining them and forfeiting their personal belongings. How many roofing contractors would risk THEIR house to hire some 'off the books' Messicans? How many South Texas cotton farmers would look the other way while their managers hired illegals if it meant 'buhbye' to the big house and six months in an orange jump suit pickinig up trash beside the highway?

    This stuff isn't complicated and you don't need to focus on some granny giving a thirsty man a glass of water on a hot day.
    The are a couple of million firms that have more than 5 employees...how do you propose we effectively audit that number of firms?

    I understand that auditing must be part of the plan...it is complicated due to size of the project...

    http://www.census.gov/econ/smallbus.html

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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member KantoSooner's Avatar
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    Re: Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    I'd use Everify and then you're left with spot checks. No way you can visit every employer. But you can make the consequences bad enough that people won't risk it.

    You'd probably kiss a pretty woman even if you thought she might have a cold.

    You wouldn't sleep with a woman, no matter how hot, if you thought she had AIDS.

    It's not always the odds, sometimes it's the consequences.
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  14. #14
    Baylor Ambassador SicEmBaylor's Avatar
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    Re: Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    Quote Originally Posted by KantoSooner View Post
    You wouldn't sleep with a woman, no matter how hot, if you thought she had AIDS.
    Eh...some are more desperate than others.

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    Re: Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    Quote Originally Posted by Curly Bill View Post
    Finally the French are doing something right.
    +1
    Everything progressives do is aimed at weakening democracy, capitalism and the social and cultural institutions that support those things...... They are about subjugating people and being a ruling class.

  16. #16
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member SanJoaquinSooner's Avatar
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    Re: Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    The phrase "12 million illegal" actually refers to the number of copyright violations committed by Okie in copying and pasting articles about illegal immigration.

    Jesus Christ, Okie. Two separate threads about illegal immigration in France, within 30 minutes of each other? You really needed two separate threads about France? Really?


    Here is where all of you are off-base: Government isn't the solution, it's the problem. "Let's see, how can we inhibit economic activity to solve our problems?" That's what government does. Would a newly created Stasi help grow the economy?


    For example, between the bracero program and the 1987 immigration reform bill, 25 million Mexicans came to the U.S. illegally and 23 million returned to Mexico, leaving 2 million or so who received amnesty and a green card. As part of the deal, employers would have to verify eligibility to work by completing a government created I-9 employment verification form. Before 1987, employers couldn't legally require an employee to "prove" eligibility. Surely this would solve the "problem." Gov't is so good at solving problems.

    What did it do? It merely embedded corruption into the fabric. Eight years later, in 2005, the head of Social Security Admin estimated that 2/3 of those working illegally were in payroll systems that paid FICA taxes. ... Just like Prohibition corrupted police departments, politicians, and everyday, hard-working folks, prohibition of workers without I-9 verification corrupted the workplace.

    If you gotta have a social security number and a ID to work then that's what they went and got.

    Kanto, you do realize, don't you, that e-verify does not verify anyone's identity.

    The solution is in the system of free enterprise. Get government out of it. Have private companies set up "red-card" centers to process worker visas and let employers decide who the best qualified are. Gov't bureaucrats should be good public servants and get out of the way. And start funding their own damned pensions.

    Okie, really, instead of putting all your energy into protecting welfare benefits from illegal aliens, you should devote it to getting rid of the welfare state.

    Y'all need to quit blaming hard-working migrants for plight of unemployed non-workers who lay on the couch and eat a package of oreos each day while watching TV. Thank God for remote controls. The government doesn't owe anyone a job!


    Migrant workers dont take jobs from lower class Americans, they CREATE jobs for middle class jobs for Americans. Economic consequences are dynamic, not static. Increasing efficiency of labor creates opportunities for businesses to expand and for new businesses to be created.

    And Sic em, you're a Ron Paul "work-in-progress". The guy is all about liberty, not establishing a Stasi. Let's see, maybe we need full-time officers posted at all major businesses and one tenant in every apartment building designated as a watchdog reporting to an area representative of the Volkspolizei, er, Sheriff Joe. And then we need informants who watch every relative or friend who stay the night at another's place. You never know, they may be illegal.
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  17. #17
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member SCOUT's Avatar
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    Re: Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    I love the argument you are making San. The illegals kept breaking the laws we put in place to stop them so we should stop trying to stop them.

    E-Verify does a lot more to validate identity than the I-9. It isn't perfect but it is a step in the right direction.

  18. #18
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    Re: Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    Quote Originally Posted by SCOUT View Post
    I love the argument you are making San. The illegals kept breaking the laws we put in place to stop them so we should stop trying to stop them.

    E-Verify does a lot more to validate identity than the I-9. It isn't perfect but it is a step in the right direction.
    That's not the argument I'm making. We should stop trying to make it illegal to work because a free market of labor is a good thing whereas a black market of labor embedds corruption into the fabric of society.
    Ingles solamente (¡no exepciones!)

  19. #19
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    Re: Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    Haha San Juan-you'd be in jail in France.

    Yep I thought it would be good to show how illegals are viewed with disdain worldwide....even in liberal France (and most of Europe for that matter). This panacea of illegal immigration you preach is just so much hogwash as seen by countries that are suffering from it now in Europe.

    Everify alone won't cure illegal immigration but along with punishing employers, sanctuary cities, removing illegals benefits, schooling, medical, etc...the old USA won't look near as inviting now will it? And if we took it to where France is now even enablers like you might think twice before aiding and abetting these invaders.

  20. #20
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member SanJoaquinSooner's Avatar
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    Re: Helping illegal immigrants a crime in France

    Quote Originally Posted by okie52 View Post
    Haha San Juan-you'd be in jail in France.

    Yep I thought it would be good to show how illegals are viewed with disdain worldwide....even in liberal France (and most of Europe for that matter). This panacea of illegal immigration you preach.
    I didn't know it's against the law in France to advocate changing visa laws. But defenders of cradle-to-grave welfare states are rarely free-market libertarians.

    And there you go again, misrepresenting my views. I'm against illegal immigration.
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