Anyway...the more I cool off, I think there is a mixture of things wrong with our team this year.
1. If Stoops and others are correct, then it seems our players have a sense of entitlement.
2. The coaches did not do a very good job in 3 games this year.
I am still for some changes, whatever changes those are...I guess I will leave up to Stoops, and hope he does initiate some changes, seeing as some people just don't want to hear fans opinions.
Originally Posted by bornnbredou
Skip Bayless, is that you?
Very few injuries in 1999 and 2000.
Mike did a great job of keeping our players on the field. So did Brent in 2008. Makes a heck of a difference. Sometimes you get lucky, other times you work through them and other times you are screwed and have to play with what you have left.
If MS does come back I truly hope "a great combo" is the result. One thing that people don't take into account much of is that MS had one thing that BV did not, and that was BV as an assistant coach.
I can see at least 5 guys in there that people here nearly came apart about. Bassey and Lendy Holmes probably got it the worst. It was sad as they were both pretty good players. They had some tough beats.
I think a great question is what will OU fans think if Mike Stoops comes back (which I think is unlikely) and things aren't much different? Under Mike Stoops OU got burned in 2001 by two deep touchdown catches by Eric Crouch and Rashaun Woods that lost both games. In 2002, Reggie McNeal and Josh Fields torched OU's secondary and of course the K-State debacle in 2003. I don't think any of those games except the Nebraska game in 2001, OU brought their A-game. I do think when Bob and Mike were together there was more consistency. The defense especially in 2000 of course along with '01,'02 and '03 was suffocating.
In 2004 was what was the beginning of the defense becoming really inconsistent, at times looking good against probably bad offenses and giving up big plays in other games. The OU-OSU game, the A&M game were very prescient of what would happen against USC. In retrospect I wonder if the years of 2004-2007 were small drop off periods for OU because they lost so many great players on offense but particularly on defense. They lost Torrance Marshall, Rocky Calmus, Derrick Strait, Woolfolk, Lehman, Roy Williams, Tommie Harris.
I currently wonder if OU is going through a drop off on both sides of the both through the losses of the players that played in 2008 although Alexander, Lewis and Fleming, Broyles were on those teams. I do think OU's offensive line has suffered since losing talented and physical guys like Loadholt, Robinson, Williams, Walker and Cooper. They also lost the greatest quarterback in the school's history along with good receivers in Juaquin Igleasias, Manny Johnson, a freshman Ryan Broyles and Jermaine Gresham at tight end who was probably the best receiver of those three at the time.
The defense in 2008 although inconsistent was good and I'll go ahead and say it was probably the strongest defense OU has had since 2003. They got burned by Texas but they played well against Florida, well enough to win. If the offense executed in the first half in the red zone,they might have been up on the Gators 28-7 which could have completely changed the trajectory of that game obviously. Tebow had has worst passing performance at Florida until they lost to Alabama a year later. The defensive line had Auston English, Jeremy Beal, Frank Alexander, Demarcus Granger and of course Gerald McCoy. The linebackers were Travis Lewis, Ryan Reynolds, and Keenan Clayton who plays in the NFL currently. The defensive backs had a good year with Dominique Franks and Brian Jackson, Nic Harris, Lendy Holmes and Quinton Carter.
Overall I think the coaching staff needs to fix things. I think Bob needs to stop being such a head coach sometimes and needs to really get back in there and coach defense because I know he can and he has for Oklahoma and when he was one of the top defensive coordinators at Florida. I just think sometimes it's hard to have great team after great team because great players leave one way or the other and sometimes it's hard to replace them.
I don't think Brent Venables is the greatest coach in the world but I don't think he is completely horrible either. His defense that he coached almost brought home Oklahoma's eighth national title in 2008. We were so close to winning it against Tim Tebow who was and is a thorn in everyone's side in college and the NFL. That game still bothers me a bit. I just wonder if OU is still reeling from the loss of players through graduation and the NFL. I think OU's main problems this year were coaching I agree with people in that regard but also not consistently controlling the line of scrimmage on the offensive and defensive side of the ball. I think all games are won and lost in the trenches.
Through the years it has always been the vogue on this board to "hate" on Mike and I have never understood it. The detractors always point to Eric Bassey (who made the NFL if only on special teams).
If you're going to criticize for Bassey you must give credit for pulling in Strait & Everage in half a recruiting period (I will always believe that the '99 recruiting class was the greatest in college football history considering the results & the fact that it was done in so little time not to mention the destruction of recruiting files by Boo).
People also blame Mike for the ksu debacle as he "changed" the gameplan with 48 hours to gametime after accepting the zona job--well sometimes sh!t happens.
To say the D from '03 to '04 did not change schematically is simply inaccurate. Pelini switched us to a base cover 3 and although we had success several cracks were exploited by opponents that year (besides texass that was a weak year overall for the Big XII as a whole).
I'm not gonna ramble on but one thing that makes up for perceived shortcomings with Mike is (was) his ability to demand 100% balls to the wall hair on fire EFFORT from his players. I can't count the number of times our D this year stoppped pursuing on long TDs this year around the 30 yard line (which is absolute ****ing bull****).
In Bob I trust but I can verify with Mike. BOOOOOMER
Let me see your war face!!
Geez. Does that ever sound familiar. Only we never fixed it this time.
Mangino was leading the jayhawks to 1 win in 2002--that clusterfork was all on Chuck
How many points did we score against LSU and Florida in the NC's......
Hey... maybe T BOONE can pony up and start a Stilleater newspaper... but the players would probably just use it to roll the weed.
Look at the talent texas is getting on the defensive side of the ball...corners, safeties, Dline, LBers...Big talent difference getting brought in.
Bazinga
In case you didnt see, look at the db's recruited on the previous page and then get back to me..
I'll agree that '08 was a good bit better than they get credit for, mainly due to being constantly under the gun from atrocious special teams (namely KO returns) play. The '09 D was WAY better though. It unfortunately, however, was hung out to dry by the offensive struggles (largely due to injury). It reminded me a lot of the '01 D's situation (great D, shaky O ).
Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb.
Mike's defenses were sound fundamentally. They tackled well, not nearly as many arm tackles as we see today. After Mike, we started having DB's like Chiijoke, who couldn't tackle my mother. They got burned deep, but not nearly as frequently as now, and rarely over the middle. BV's defenses have a hole in the middle of the field that any OC can scheme to beat.
The problem on this board is that they force you to take an extreme -> Love or Hate. Most of it absolutely LOVE the way that Mike called the Tampa 2. The man was a genious on gameday with that defense. On the other hand, we HATE the way he got infatuated with "athletes" that couldn't cover a lick or that left after 1 year because they couldn't stand him.
Agree. Agree. Mike recruited Chijoke.
The hole in the middle is the responsibility of the Linebackers. When we've had good linebackers, it disappears. When we haven't its huge. It was the exact same under Mike only we had 2 Butkus award winners there. Think about TM's INT in 2000, where was that ball thrown?
The thing I remember was that in game defensive adjustments seemed to happen faster when Mike was there. Our current staff seems to adjust at the half, in the Mike/Brent days it seemed to happen at the quarters or quicker.
_______________________________________________
Whaley's like Rudy with talent and better taste in schools.
In case you didn't notice, at least a half dozen of those players went to the NFL and that doesn't include guys like Thompson and Hawkins who had NFL talent but had their OU careers cut short due to injuries (Thompson) and homesick/headcase (Hawkins). Before he got injured, Stoops would put Thompson on the other team's biggest receiver and shut them down. Don't you think the NFL would have loved a guy like that? Thompson was on his way to the NFL until his accident. You need to remember something, because Stoops hit a home run (no, a grand slam) with the '99 class, the '00 class essentially became their backups. That's because 3 of the 4 players in the '99 class went on to be 4 and 3 year starters. Looking at the classes thereafter, he found guys like Poole (started 33 games & starter for the Browns), Bassey (started 49 games and drafted by Tampa), Shelby (started 40 games), Carter (started 48 games). Holmes was recruited as a WR, not a DB (someone should check their recruiting facts). But since his name was brought up.......Stoops converted him to DB and he played so well that he was given a shot by the Redskins. Doesn't sound like he had problems with recruting or coaching to me. What do you expect, for him to recruit nothing but All-Americans? There's a reason why he was offered a HC position to a BCS school after only 5 yrs at OU. Venables? You don't hear his name mentioned for any HC job, BCS or non-BCS school. Wonder why?
at least half a dozen? Come on, look again..If you are talking about receiving camp invites, then I'll give that to you..And a lot of those guys you are mentioning as starters were starters because of default, not that they were great..
This right here..I remember the frustration with Mike Stoops before he left and I remember saying, "The way we romanticize with coaches when they leave, we'll think he's the best ever and want him back in a few years."
If he comes back? Fine, I hope he does great here and we can all relive 11 years ago again...I just don't think it's necessary for him to come back so this program can win..
The thing I remember MOST about that play was the quote someone had after the game. TM hadn't made that play ONCE in practice, but he made it when it counted most and won us the game. Do you think the coaches would even play that kind of kid now? One that turns it on on gameday rather than in practice?
It's not just evaluation in High School, it's evaluation once they get here. How often have we seen a player (particularly LB) come in off the bench and play lights out, make a difference and help us win, only to go right back to the bench and never be seen again. Remember the fake punt that one JUCO killed single-handedly? That kind of play should get someone a shot. But we had stable, mediocre LBs in front of him and not enough balls to shake up the depth chart.
Why is Texas' defense so much better than ours statistically? Do they have better players? Not IMO. The biggest difference is coaching and defensive schemes.
Last edited by FaninAma; 12/7/2011 at 11:18 AM.
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