It was more of a commentary on the accuracy of the stats you are using to back up your arguments. The 3rd grade name calling was the clue to look them up and see if you were lying.Originally Posted by thecrimsoncrusader
It was more of a commentary on the accuracy of the stats you are using to back up your arguments. The 3rd grade name calling was the clue to look them up and see if you were lying.
Well, yeah. Even Bomar lit that D up. I just find it rather disquieting that we can't recruit to whatever scheme we settle on. Pelini runs that 4-3-4 to death and manages to get kids that fit it.
5 best offenses faced each year in the early 2000s in conference when the defenses were highly ranked..the rankings and () means a loss...The last 2 were Venables worst ranked defenses and the offensive rankings they faced in conference...
5 best offenses
2000- 6,14,33,49,65
2001-(12), 33,38, 47, 103
2002-4,(21),( 47), 48, 58
2003-1, (17),20, 32,36
2008-4,6,8,(9), 12
2011-(2),(3),6,11,(15)
Bazinga
Bingo!!
I fly fake airplanes
This is my biggest issue..recruiting and evaluation...I've haven't been interested in recruiting until this season...And people just assume Xs and Os problems because we are Oklahoma and it can't be that we aren't that much more talented than everyone else...
I shouldn't have said "schematically", I should have just left it at "philosophically". If you don't think there was a huge philosophical shift from the 2003 to 2004 seasons, I would watch some games again from both seasons again. There was a reason that Donta, Brodney and Antonio and really, the defense as a whole performed poorly compared to their talent levels and it wasn't due to personnel losses from the 2003 season.
Brent Vulnerables is like the Landry Jones of defensive coordinators, he can have these truly epic performances or truly epic failures. What Oklahoma needs though is a defensive coordinator that is somewhere in between those two extremes, so they don't have those egg laying contests twice in a season each season. Oklahoma can't be great on defense each and every game, but they could certainly be more consistent.
Do you honestly think that Brent Vulnerables has gotten the job done at an acceptable level at Oklahoma over the years and particularly this season? Now the offense has been just as guilty this season in the losses (slow first half starts and turnovers), but that's for a different discussion.
Right now, the big 12 conference is the old WAC...high powered offenses with average/mediocre defenses..
My biggest concern is, and I'm not pro or anti venables, is him getting the players he needs to run the defense...And I think the idea that Mike Stoops will change that when he had his own recruiting problems is wrong...But if they do rehire him, I hope that I am wrong.
I'm still skinny and hawt.
Now this is a cogent post with good points (although the childish naming still takes away from your argument).
The biggest difference between 2003 and 2004 was how we played on the road (and its one point that no one brings up but is a fact BV's defenses til this year played better at home than on the road). On defense, we lost a Thorpe award winner and a Butkus award winner from the previous year. However, at linebacker we replaced Lehman with Rufus but we never did replace Strait until the 3rd quarter of the aTm game when they put Marcus Walker in the game for Wolfe. From that point on, we allowed 7/3/0/3 until the USC game where we gave up 7 and then the offense spotted them 28 points and at that point everyone caved. That is my point about how good this D can be with the right personnel.
First I'll point out the obvious. We don't have a DC named Brent "Vulnerables". Critical comments are fine and to be expected, but disrespect of that nature toward the Sooner coaching staff should appear only on aggie boards, not Sooner fan boards.
Secondly, while I'm not against Mike Stoops returning as DC, I think that is highly unlikely and also doubt the impact that change would make. While Coach Venebles certainly isn't perfect in his implementation of the defense, I agree with those saying a recent lack of recruiting success has had more of an impact. Simply having 1 or 2 highly skilled defenders is no longer enough to contain the offenses the team faces week in and week out. We badly need something more on the order of 5 or 6 highly skilled defenders to contain every opponent every week, and that's a personnel mix that is no doubt nearly impossible to collect.
I'd also add that one thing we never replaced in '04; 2 guys by the names of Tommie Harris & Dusty Dvoracek. This defense (& any defense, for that matter) is exponentially better when they get pressure by the front 4 w/o having to send extra guys. Leach's offense is borderline impossible to defend when you start having to blitz. Harris left after '03, & Dusty got kicked off the team a couple of games into '04 & there goes hands down 2 of the best DT's of the Stoops era. A difference maker there is in-valuable (for further proof, see OU finishing @ #8 in the nation in total defense in '09 w/ GK playing at his best alongside a healthy Adrian Taylor), & honestly, it didn't surprise me a bit to see SC light us up like they did. Heck, OU got into a shootout with OSU that year when they had Donovan-frickin Woods at QB & now you're going to give Leinart & co. a try? I'll take trainwrecks waiting to happen for $500, Alex.
Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb.
Hmmmm, Texas plays in the same league we play in and they were ranked 14th in total defense this year. Once they get their offensive woes figured out they will own Brent and the RRS, too.
OSU has less defensive talent than OU but their DC schemes to overcome this with all-out blitzes and other aggressive tactics that result in turnovers. In other words, he schemes around his personnel. That concept is foreign to Venables.
Don't know about that STEP........
Derrick Strait - 4 yr starter, 2-time All-American, recipient of the 2003 Bronko Nagurski Trophy, and the 2003 Jim Thorpe Award his senior season. He holds a team record with five fumble recoveries in a single season. He was named to the Sports Illustrated All-Decade Team in 2009. 3rd rd draft pick by the Jets (started for a couple of yrs I believe).
Roy Williams - Bronko Nagurski and Jim Thorpe Award winner in 2001. 1st rd selection by Dallas, 5 straight pro-bowls. Not sure if he was recruited by Stoops & Co., but if not, Mike Stoops did a heck of a job coaching him.
Brodney Poole - 2nd rd pick by the Browns. Started as a sophomore in 2003, earning All-Big 12 honors. 3rd team All-American in 2004 and was on the Bronko Nagurski and Jim Thorpe watch lists.
OU has had no one approach the level of productivity as these guys when they played under Mike Stoops. Don't forget, OU's defense shutout FSU in the nat'l title game. Even though Snoop Minnis was suspended, the defense still pitched a shutout. Bowden even commented afterwards that FSU had no answers for OU's defense that night. It's a good thing Mike Stoops' defense was outstanding because the offense only scored 13 pts. The point is that under Mike Stoops, the defense was aggressive and forced turnovers, not read and react until you have to blitz. Don't forget about guys like Michael Thompson, he was a heck of a player under Stoops. I think he was recruited by Blake, but excelled in Stoops' defensive schemes.
Can you please show me the stats that show that OSU is better at generating turnovers CONSISTENTLY year over year compared to us? It wasn't that long ago that OU was #1 in the nation in turnover margin.
As for Texas, I hate to break it to you but they have better players than we do. Vaccaro and Acho would easily start for us.
I would say that going off of memory and stating the 350 versus the 325 is pretty damn close given that both are over 300+ yards per game. Certainly a hell of a lot more accurate than you would be able to recall.
These are Mike Stoops Recruiting classes
Year|Games Played|Wins
1999|157|136
Brandon Everage 54|48
Derrick Strait 54|48
Matt McCoy 10|8
Michael Thompson 39|32
2000 57|51
Brandon Shelby 40|35
Darren Stephens 0|0
Michael Freeman 0|0
Terrance Simms 17|16
Vernon Maxwell 0|0
2001 73|64
Avery Shine 0|0
Bobby Klinck 0|0
Eric Bassey 49|42
Jowahn Poteat 24|22
Justin Williams 0|0
2002 87|73
Aaron Miller 0|0
Brodney Pool 33|29
Jason Carter 48|38
Micheal Hawkins 6|6
2003 90|73
Chijioke Onyenegecha 24|19
Darien Williams 39|30
Donte Nicholson 27|24
Tony Cade 0|0
2004 55|45
Brett Bowers 14|12
Lendy Holmes 41|33
The quality of trolls has really gone down over the years
And yet they were still getting torched by good offenses.
And I believe OSU has been near the top in turnovers for the past couple to three years.
The problem is the right personnel goes back to coaching and evaluation and that appears to be lacking. Oklahoma has been short of award winners on the defensive side of the ball since the departure of Mike Stoops.
Where I believe Mike Stoops was important going beyond the defensive side of the ball is he was the "devil on Bob Stoops' shoulders" in a manner of speaking. He would sometimes have the capability of pushing Bob Stoops into decisions he would not otherwise make. Mike Stoops was also very good at pointing out deficiences in opposing team's special teams units. Whether he does or not, this has not seemed to be the case with Brent Venables. While Mike Stoops had a poor stint at Arizona, he "almost" effectively gave Oklahoma two head coaches at the program in terms of capability and the same goes for Mark Mangino. Those are some excellent game-planners on both sides of the balll that quite frankly have never been replaced.
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