Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength want your donations

[TitoMorelli]

At a recent Obama campaign event masquerading as a town hall, an ex-Google executive begged Obama to raise his taxes, to which Obama responded with an Elizabeth Warren-like argument:

But another thing caught my eye in their banner. These patriotic millionaires want you to donate to their group:

https://agendaproject.org/support_fa...shop/checkout/

The Donate button leads to a donation page where these patriotic millionaires are happy to take your credit card billing information or allow you to pay via PayPal to support their efforts.

So how patriotic are these millionaires?

Not so patriotic that they will voluntarily pay extra taxes to the government, and not so patriotic that they will pay for their own campaign to raise other people’s taxes.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2011/09...onate-to-them/

[Midtowner]

It ain't class warfare 'til the little guy fights back.

[okie52]

It ain't class warfare 'til the little guy fights back.

Would that be raising taxes only on the rich?

[Midtowner]

Would that be raising taxes only on the rich?

Right now, yes, that probably makes the most sense. Paying a few more percentage points on their income after $150K or whatever isn't going to cause too many to go into foreclosure and bankruptcy. Do the same to the middle class, and I don't think things would go so well.

[pphilfran]

Bump the effective tax rate by 3% on everyone making over 200k and you pull in 60 billion...

http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/indtaxst...=96981,00.html

200k-500k with 3 million returns - $27,160,387,531
500k - 1 million with a half million returns - $9,961,128,779
1 - 1.5 mill with a hundred thousand returns - $3,904,476,163
1.5 - 2 million with fifty thousand returns - $2,284,445,626
2 - 5 mill sixty-two thousand returns - $5,489,591,677
5-10 million with fourteen thous returns - $2,924,794,871
10 and up with eight thousand returns - $7,204,016,580
Total - $58,928,841,228

[Midtowner]

I don't think anyone was suggesting that this the only place to enhance revenue. I also like the idea of a 1% transaction fee on securities and derivatives and other measures. There isn't a magic bullet here. Taxes are too low for the kind of services the people are demanding.

[pphilfran]

We need to pull in 20% of GDP to stand a chance...

[pphilfran]

Those upper brackets are likely to get nailed for SS...nailed for income taxes...nailed for cap gains....it will be a lot of nailing if we aren't careful...

[Midtowner]

So this measure would pull in 2% or so of that amount. It's either not big enough or there are other places. That it's small is no reason to simply do nothing though.

[Midtowner]

Those upper brackets are likely to get nailed for SS...nailed for income taxes...nailed for cap gains....it will be a lot of nailing if we aren't careful...

"nailed" for capital gains? You mean by paying way less on a certain kind of income as compared to all other kinds of income? Capital gains need to go away or be restricted.

[pphilfran]

"nailed" for capital gains? You mean by paying way less on a certain kind of income as compared to all other kinds of income? Capital gains need to go away or be restricted.

By nailed I meant raised...

I do think that LTCG should be kept low...raise STCG as much as you want....

[Midtowner]

By nailed I meant raised...

I do think that LTCG should be kept low...raise STCG as much as you want....

I'd say LTCG should be low up to $100K per year, then tax it like any other kind of income so we don't kill our retirees.

STCG shouldn't even get an exception, it should just be income. I'd also like to see a transaction fee on all securities transactions. That'd serve a second benefit of slowing down the microtraders.

[pphilfran]

I see where you are coming from and I do the same thing....but we are both screwed up....

By trying to make things more fair we add more layers to an already overcomplicated tax system...

Over the years I have found that the most effective systems are most often some of the simplest...

The entire mess needed to be gutted and rewritten...

[Midtowner]

I see where you are coming from and I do the same thing....but we are both screwed up....

By trying to make things more fair we add more layers to an already overcomplicated tax system...

Over the years I have found that the most effective systems are most often some of the simplest...

The entire mess needed to be gutted and rewritten...

For most folks, the tax code isn't that complicated. For others, especially small business owners, it really can be, but if it's complicated enough for you to need a JD-CPA to go to the books to answer a tax question for you, you can probably afford it. Otherwise, plug 'yo stuff into TurboTax and you're good to go.

God help you if you are C-Corp, but what is that... way less than 1% of filers?

Another thing about a complicated tax system--it creates lots of jobs.

[pphilfran]

Obama wanted to bankrupt coal...

I want to bankrupt Intuit and H&R Block....

[8timechamps]

The US Tax Code is way to long and complex, and most of the codes are meant for government to enact spending. Most people don't use probably 90% of the US Tax code (that's my own guess, not an official number ).

There should be NO such thing as long term capital gains tax. Like Midtower said above, tax STCG all you want...go crazy. The reduction in LTCG would also encourage investors to sit through bumpy markets, and since most of the money on Wall Street is invested by fund managers, they would certainly take note on trades that fall under a year. It would also help to stabilize the markets, making quick turnaround trading less attractive.

I've read a lot about Fair Tax, and in theory, it sounds good. I just don't see something that epic occurring during my lifetime.

Since almost half the people in this country don't pay (income) taxes to begin with, tax increases are only going to make things worse (of course, that's my opinion).

I don't like the idea of a 1% transaction fee on financial transactions, as most investors already pay fees on financial transactions. What the government could do, is to tell Wall Street it's practices are keeping this country in the poor financial shape it's in. Cut out the billions paid in bonuses, and cut back the fees already in place. Give the consumer the financial flexibility to create jobs.

[diverdog]

Would that be raising taxes only on the rich?

The whole class warfare argument is a joke. The top 5% of Americans own 58% of the wealth. The bottom 40% have .3%. The top 20% have close to 85% of all the wealth in our nation. The Fortune 500 riches have wealth that exceeds Canada's GNP.

The top 5% can afford to pay more taxes.

[diverdog]

The US Tax Code is way to long and complex, and most of the codes are meant for government to enact spending. Most people don't use probably 90% of the US Tax code (that's my own guess, not an official number ).

There should be NO such thing as long term capital gains tax. Like Midtower said above, tax STCG all you want...go crazy. The reduction in LTCG would also encourage investors to sit through bumpy markets, and since most of the money on Wall Street is invested by fund managers, they would certainly take note on trades that fall under a year. It would also help to stabilize the markets, making quick turnaround trading less attractive.

I've read a lot about Fair Tax, and in theory, it sounds good. I just don't see something that epic occurring during my lifetime.

Since almost half the people in this country don't pay (income) taxes to begin with, tax increases are only going to make things worse (of course, that's my opinion).

I don't like the idea of a 1% transaction fee on financial transactions, as most investors already pay fees on financial transactions. What the government could do, is to tell Wall Street it's practices are keeping this country in the poor financial shape it's in. Cut out the billions paid in bonuses, and cut back the fees already in place. Give the consumer the financial flexibility to create jobs.

The transaction fee would slow down high volume trading and the recommended tax is .25%.

[8timechamps]

The transaction fee would slow down high volume trading and the recommended tax is .25%.

I guess if there are parameters in place so that it's used to slow down trading. There's already so many fees associated with trading, that I'd hate to see more added.

I still think killing LTCG, and ramping up STCG would accomplish the same thing, and increase the revenue that the government is looking for.

[TitoMorelli]

The whole classwarfare argument is a joke.

The top 5% of Americans own 58% of the wealth.

The top 5% pays 58.2% of all federal taxes.

The bottom 40% have .3%.

The bottom 40% pay no taxes.

The top 20% have close to 85% of all the wealth in our nation.

The top 20% pay 86.3%.

The Fortune 500 riches have wealth that exceeds Canada's GNP.

Is it our fault that moose futures doesn't attract a lot of investors?

The top 5% can afford to pay more taxes.

And so can the top 10%, or the top 25%, or even the top 50% for that matter. But being able to afford paying more in taxes doesn't necessarily mean one isn't already paying his share.

The whole classwarfare argument is a joke.

The biggest joke is that our president (himself one big joke on the voters of this country) is ratcheting up the class envy yet again, since he can't persuade voters to support him or contribute to his campaign based on his track record up to now. And that's the main reason that he's now in full "tax the rich" mode.