What is a tax hike?

[jkjsooner]

I think we need to discuss a simple question, what is considered a tax hike?

1. Is removing the mortgage deduction a tax hike?
2. Are removing loopholes considered tax hikes?
3. If it doesn't change the percent of some quantity (percent income, percent sales, etc.) is it not a tax hike?

I'm no fan of the mortgage deduction. I don't think it's the job of the government to favor one living situation (or investment) over another. That said, let's call a spade a spade, removing the mortgage interest deduction is a tax hike for most home owning middle class families. To pretend it isn't is, well, playing games with words.

[Sooner_Tuf]

If it increases the dollar amount you owe it is a hike.

[The]

A Temporary Refund Adjustment.

[picasso]

It is when the center hikes the tax to the QB. You hike it backwards! Backwards!

[jkjsooner]

If it increases the dollar amount you owe it is a hike.

So we all agree that the Republicans are proposing tax increases...

[OutlandTrophy]

nice trolling. People like you are a large part of the problem. You just want to play party politics and don't really care to solve any issues. Good job on just pointing your finger.

[Sooner5030]

removal of EIC......since we want to be fair and all.

[IndySooner]

nice trolling. People like you are a large part of the problem. You just want to play party politics and don't really care to solve any issues. Good job on just pointing your finger.

He has a point, though. Both parties are bickering over just wanting to create revenue and cut spending in different ways.

[ouwino]

it is when the govt takes more and more of your hard earned money and gives it to people who are lazy and refuse to work, or to countries who hate our guts.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I think we need to discuss a simple question, what is considered a tax hike?

1. Is removing the mortgage deduction a tax hike?
2. Are removing loopholes considered tax hikes?
3. If it doesn't change the percent of some quantity (percent income, percent sales, etc.) is it not a tax hike?

I'm no fan of the mortgage deduction. I don't think it's the job of the government to favor one living situation (or investment) over another. That said, let's call a spade a spade, removing the mortgage interest deduction is a tax hike for most home owning middle class families. To pretend it isn't is, well, playing games with words.

It depends

First we have to understand the difference between standard deductions and itemized deductions.

Lets use my favorite example of Single Mother, 3 kids, $30,000 deduction

Filing Status - Head of Household
Standard Deduction - $8,800

This means that the MINIMUM deduction she can have is $8,800, so when we accumulate itemized deductions they must be over this amount or they don't count.

Typical Itemized Deductions:

Mortgage Interest
State Income Tax/Sales Tax if no Income Tax
Property Tax

Assuming $110k house, 1st year of payment, $1500 property taxes

Mortgage Interest - $5400
Property Taxes - $1500
State Income Tax - $400 (no easy calc)

Total $7300 = Use Standard Deduction

So dropping this would NOT be a tax hike (only if it exceeded 8800)

[OU_Sooners75]

A tax hike in my opinion is when the government decides to take more of my hard earned money and use it to pay for false allies such as Pakistan.

I wouldn't care if they raised my taxes just a little as long as they stop spending it all on big government and it went straight to our national debt so my kids and grandiose won't have to worry abOut this.

[soonercruiser]

I wouldn't care if they raised my taxes just a little as long as they stop spending it all on big government and it went straight to our national debt so my kids and grandiose won't have to worry abOut this.

As a registered Republican (but, more importantly a staunch conservative), I do agree with the argument about the semantics on what a tax increse is....as reference to the Repugs caving in to increased revenue by closing tax loop holes.

Odds are, whatever deal Boehner gets, we will be paying more out of our pockets to the government!

I don't think the current members in Congress (by and large) will ever apply a large amout of tax increases, or increased revenue to the national debt. They will continue their bad habits and use the increased revenue as an excuse to continue to raise the deft ceiling! Our $$ is like cocaine to the politicians.

[jkjsooner]

It depends

First we have to understand the difference between standard deductions and itemized deductions.

Lets use my favorite example of Single Mother, 3 kids, $30,000 deduction

Filing Status - Head of Household
Standard Deduction - $8,800

This means that the MINIMUM deduction she can have is $8,800, so when we accumulate itemized deductions they must be over this amount or they don't count.

Typical Itemized Deductions:

Mortgage Interest
State Income Tax/Sales Tax if no Income Tax
Property Tax

Assuming $110k house, 1st year of payment, $1500 property taxes

Mortgage Interest - $5400
Property Taxes - $1500
State Income Tax - $400 (no easy calc)

Total $7300 = Use Standard Deduction

So dropping this would NOT be a tax hike (only if it exceeded 8800)

Let's just say that most of the people who are demanding "no new taxes" are meeting their standard deduction prior to factoring in the mortgage interest. Hell, when I lived in DC, the district taxes were enough to do that.

As for this being a troll post. That's B.S. The fact is that the Republicans have all made a "no new taxes" pledge. (It's my opinion that this pledge has hampered their ability to entertain any compromise that includes additional taxes but that's not the point here.) In the meantime some throw out things like removing the income tax deduction that will effectively increase the tax rate for a large percentage of Americans...

Removing this deduction (which I admit should have never existed to begin with) will uniquely affect the middle class. Lower income earners don't exceed the standard deduction. My guess is that higher income earners who are subjected to the AMT won't be impacted much (could be wrong). But, anyway, this thread isn't about the mortgage deduction itself so I'm getting off topic...

[soonercruiser]

Let's just say that most of the people who are demanding "no new taxes" are meeting their standard deduction prior to factoring in the mortgage interest. Hell, when I lived in DC, the district taxes were enough to do that.

As for this being a troll post. That's B.S. The fact is that the Republicans have all made a "no new taxes" pledge. (It's my opinion that this pledge has hampered their ability to entertain any compromise that includes additional taxes but that's not the point here.) In the meantime some throw out things like removing the income tax deduction that will effectively increase the tax rate for a large percentage of Americans...

Removing this deduction (which I admit should have never existed to begin with) will uniquely affect the middle class. Lower income earners don't exceed the standard deduction. My guess is that higher income earners who are subjected to the AMT won't be impacted much (could be wrong). But, anyway, this thread isn't about the mortgage deduction itself so I'm getting off topic...

In Washington, D.C., they can't even agree on the meaning of what "is" is!
And all the bills come out as 500 pages plus.
Waaaayyyyy too many lawyer-politicians in D.C.!
Time to make some more unemployed!

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Let's just say that most of the people who are demanding "no new taxes" are meeting their standard deduction prior to factoring in the mortgage interest. Hell, when I lived in DC, the district taxes were enough to do that.

As for this being a troll post. That's B.S. The fact is that the Republicans have all made a "no new taxes" pledge. (It's my opinion that this pledge has hampered their ability to entertain any compromise that includes additional taxes but that's not the point here.) In the meantime some throw out things like removing the income tax deduction that will effectively increase the tax rate for a large percentage of Americans...

Removing this deduction (which I admit should have never existed to begin with) will uniquely affect the middle class. Lower income earners don't exceed the standard deduction. My guess is that higher income earners who are subjected to the AMT won't be impacted much (could be wrong). But, anyway, this thread isn't about the mortgage deduction itself so I'm getting off topic...

I'll find the stats on the number of people who file 1040EZ (which mean no itemized deductions), the number will shock you.

[Soonerfan88]

The only changes to mortgage deductions I have seen are lowering the limit from $1M to $500,000 and eliminating 2nd homes. I don't know a single middle class person who owns more than one home so that won't affect them at all. I guess if you live in SF or DC, a $500,000 isn't much but here in the heartland those houses are only for rich folks.


And I agree with the previous poster about ending EIC.

[Curly Bill]

The only changes to mortgage deductions I have seen are lowering the limit from $1M to $500,000 and eliminating 2nd homes. I don't know a single middle class person who owns more than one home so that won't affect them at all. I guess if you live in SF or DC, a $500,000 isn't much but here in the heartland those houses are only for rich folks.


And I agree with the previous poster about ending EIC.

YES!

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I'll find the stats on the number of people who file 1040EZ (which mean no itemized deductions), the number will shock you.

Can't find exact number for EZs but I found the following:

60% of all filers use only a 1040EZ or 1040A

20 Million EZ filers pay someone to fill it out

[En_Fuego]

[Sooner_Tuf]

We pay more than enough into the Government. They don't need more. They need to spend what they get more wisely.

Eventually the work or starve policy will go into effect whether by choice or waiting until we are absolutely broke.