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  1. #1
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member The Maestro's Avatar
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    Prayers and tornadoes

    I almost hesitate to post this due to some perceiving it as insensitive, which is not the case. But in my recent search for truth I have very few places and people I can share my thoughts without catching a backlash of anger, questioning and resentment. Bottom line, I hope no one suffered from the tornadoes and never does. May they all miss homes, businesses, cars and just pull up grass and trees. I hate them and they are dangerous and scary.

    Prayers and tornadoes…we’ve seen a lot of posts on here and you hear it on the radio, T.V. reports, etc. Prayers for recovery…prayer for protection from the tornadoes…and I am sensitive to the nature of the reliance on prayer. For years, I was raised with the same mindset. Possible disaster on its way? Pray for protection. Disaster strikes? Pray for peace and healing. It is something that folks use as a communication device to God. And the nature of this post is based on the audio from the Joplin video of the folks in the convenient store. You could easily hear an woman yelling out, “Heavenly Father! Jesus!” She was calling on the name of God in her time of crisis. Yet I was instantly struck by the thought, “Doesn’t the God you are calling on already know what is happening? Didn’t he design this or, at least, allow it?” If you, your friends, your loved one’s or even a neighbor or enemy have suffered from the tornadoes I am truly sorry and wish you nothing more than a speedy recovery and rebuilding process. None of us are void of tragedy or sadness in this world…so we who haven’t had to deal with that much of it are truly fortunate. Having said that….

    One of these things is true…

    1. God allowed and ordained the tornado and does each and every one of them as a form of punishment for man’s sins. If these happened in San Francisco or Las Vegas someone in the south would say it is a punishment for what happens in those cities. God has the force and ability to stop it…yet he allowed it. He is so powerful and he knows what it is going to do before it happens and was fine with it happening, no matter what it did to good people who even fear him, worship him, and live lives in accordance with his laws. This includes innocent children like the missing toddler in Piedmont. God is aware, but no respecter of man. So the prayers are all a waste of time cause these vicious acts of nature are all a part of his plan. He has no plan to stop his plan because you are in the way of danger, someone you know or love is in the way of danger, and his plan is too great and advanced for us to understand, so we might as well just accept the luck of avoiding the disasters that strike our world including sickness, disease and natural disasters. Personally, if I knew of impending disaster headed someone’s way and I had the ability to stop it…whether I knew them well or not…I certainly would tell them. For God to know it, have the ability to stop it and do nothing about it…makes him sound…well…you decide. The prayer is not part of the plan.

    2. God allows nature to just take its course and the laws of nature are alive and well. God does, in fact, know about the tornadoes and it just so happens that you have chosen to live in an area where tornadoes are more likely due to climate. So while we have to accept that this life and earth is not perfect, the hope is in the perfection of heaven after this life. God could stop it, but he doesn’t. Again, the prayers seem pretty worthless. And this brings about a demented mentality for the person issuing the prayer. If you believe your prayers kept the tornado away from you, you have to also believe that God answered your prayer by dropping the wrath on someone else. For every person dodging the disaster someone is getting nailed by it. So to say that God spared you is to say he did not spare someone who lost their home, business, cars, loved ones or life itself. Almost a calloused mindset. The prayer is selfish.

    3. There is no God. These are the laws of nature and there is a reason earthquakes take place where they do, tornadoes take place where they do, extreme heat happens where it does, extreme cold happens where it does and we are all subject to it based on where we choose to live. So if you choose to live in tornado alley you have to realize that in the spring time when the jet stream comes in from the rocky mountains and things heat up in the sky and the dew point is up…they are gonna happen. We all wish no disaster on anyone, but praying about it won’t take it away or help you dodge it. It is the nature of the beast of life in that part of the world. So, in this scenario, the prayer is simply to make you feel better when there is no one listening. The prayer is pointless.

    If I have missed an option here that makes the prayers a great and effective idea, let me know. And again, a speedy recovery to all of you who suffered.
    “It never changes. Football is a game of repetition, mental and physical. You may try to articulate it a little different, but it's the same thing: Get better players, make fewer mistakes, and drill the fundamentals into your players' heads. The rest of it is a joke. Teams aren't winning because of what they had for breakfast or what some coach said in the locker room.” - Barry Switzer

  2. #2
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 soonerchk's Avatar
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    Re: Prayers and tornadoes

    NFM
    Last edited by soonerchk; 5/25/2011 at 11:56 AM. Reason: Told you to read fast.
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  3. #3
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: Prayers and tornadoes

    Ill pray for you to find your way.
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  4. #4
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member soonerhubs's Avatar
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    Re: Prayers and tornadoes

    Doesn't the Lord's prayer answer some of this? Thy will be done.

  5. #5
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member JohnnyMack's Avatar
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    Re: Prayers and tornadoes

    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

    - Epicurus
    .
    Atheist.

  6. #6
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member delhalew's Avatar
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    Re: Prayers and tornadoes

    Let me know what ya'll decide. That storm system is between myself and home. So far my plan is to drive straight into it.
    "Once a country boy's seen the way the steam rises off a man's insides on the sidewalk Tends to change the way he thinks, the way he sees everything when he goes back to where he came from."

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  7. #7
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 landrun's Avatar
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    Re: Prayers and tornadoes

    You've actually asked a very deep theological question. One many Christians and theologians have thought through.

    #2 is the closest from my personal opinion. I do believe God intervenes in the affairs of men. Only not nearly as much as we'd like to think.

    It seems some of my fellow Christians think prayer is like a magic wand that can get God to do what you want. The Bible says so in their mind (it does not)

    It seems to me that God created the laws of nature and spun the world, putting it in motion so to speak. What happens, happens. It seems He only intervenes at rare moments decided by Him.

    What, when or why that occurs. I don't claim to know.

  8. #8
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 landrun's Avatar
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    Re: Prayers and tornadoes

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyMack View Post
    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
    - Epicurus
    Sounds logical. But I think God would argue about being malevolent.

    You can not give man a free will without pain and evil. You could only prevent evil acts by removing free will. They coexist.

  9. #9
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member The Maestro's Avatar
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    Re: Prayers and tornadoes

    I just know I have seen christians pray to god time after time like he is santa claus. I have been to prayer meetings where everyone broke out their laundry list of needs.

    --Help Bobby get a job
    --Help Johnny to stop drinking
    --Help the cancer to go away in Aunt Bea

    If "Thy will be done" is it...prayer is pointless.
    “It never changes. Football is a game of repetition, mental and physical. You may try to articulate it a little different, but it's the same thing: Get better players, make fewer mistakes, and drill the fundamentals into your players' heads. The rest of it is a joke. Teams aren't winning because of what they had for breakfast or what some coach said in the locker room.” - Barry Switzer

  10. #10
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member delhalew's Avatar
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    Re: Prayers and tornadoes

    I like the idea that many of these things have been delegated. I definitely don't fall in the magic wand category.
    "Once a country boy's seen the way the steam rises off a man's insides on the sidewalk Tends to change the way he thinks, the way he sees everything when he goes back to where he came from."

    POSSE TRANSPORTATION SPECIALIST. "It Fell Off the Back of a Truck."

  11. #11
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member delhalew's Avatar
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    Re: Prayers and tornadoes

    Quote Originally Posted by The Maestro View Post
    I just know I have seen christians pray to god time after time like he is santa claus. I have been to prayer meetings where everyone broke out their laundry list of needs.

    --Help Bobby get a job
    --Help Johnny to stop drinking
    --Help the cancer to go away in Aunt Bea

    If "Thy will be done" is it...prayer is pointless.
    It's clearly not pointless. You need to go back to the beginning were you admitted the power of faith in peoples lives. Some people need that faith.
    "Once a country boy's seen the way the steam rises off a man's insides on the sidewalk Tends to change the way he thinks, the way he sees everything when he goes back to where he came from."

    POSSE TRANSPORTATION SPECIALIST. "It Fell Off the Back of a Truck."

  12. #12
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: Prayers and tornadoes

    Quote Originally Posted by The Maestro View Post
    I just know I have seen christians pray to god time after time like he is santa claus. I have been to prayer meetings where everyone broke out their laundry list of needs.

    --Help Bobby get a job
    --Help Johnny to stop drinking
    --Help the cancer to go away in Aunt Bea

    If "Thy will be done" is it...prayer is pointless.



    Aunt Bea had cancer?
    Peace, Love and Brotherhood

  13. #13
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 soonerchk's Avatar
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    Re: Prayers and tornadoes

    NFM
    Last edited by soonerchk; 5/25/2011 at 11:56 AM. Reason: no real need to put myself out there after all
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  14. #14
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Turd_Ferguson's Avatar
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    Re: Prayers and tornadoes

    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.
    Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children.
    And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon the!


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  15. #15
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member The Maestro's Avatar
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    Re: Prayers and tornadoes

    Quote Originally Posted by landrun View Post
    You can not give man a free will without pain and evil. You could only prevent evil acts by removing free will. They coexist.
    So he gave us the free will and then is shocked when we fail?

    And so the magic fruit two people ate determines the demise of all descendants thereafter?

    And the fix is a god who sacrifices himself to himself to save the world from the punishment he himself was planning to dole out?

    My head hurts...
    “It never changes. Football is a game of repetition, mental and physical. You may try to articulate it a little different, but it's the same thing: Get better players, make fewer mistakes, and drill the fundamentals into your players' heads. The rest of it is a joke. Teams aren't winning because of what they had for breakfast or what some coach said in the locker room.” - Barry Switzer

  16. #16
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member delhalew's Avatar
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    Re: Prayers and tornadoes

    Quote Originally Posted by The Maestro View Post
    So he gave us the free will and then is shocked when we fail?

    And so the magic fruit two people ate determines the demise of all descendants thereafter?

    And the fix is a god who sacrifices himself to himself to save the world from the punishment he himself was planning to dole out?

    My head hurts...
    I don't think he is the least bit shocked that we fail. I think failure is a large part of the human experience.
    "Once a country boy's seen the way the steam rises off a man's insides on the sidewalk Tends to change the way he thinks, the way he sees everything when he goes back to where he came from."

    POSSE TRANSPORTATION SPECIALIST. "It Fell Off the Back of a Truck."

  17. #17
    What? 3rdgensooner's Avatar
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    Re: Prayers and tornadoes

    Quote Originally Posted by Turd_Ferguson View Post
    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.
    Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children.
    Stinkin' liberal






    Sorry, cruiser made me post that.

  18. #18
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member The Maestro's Avatar
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    Re: Prayers and tornadoes

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerchk View Post
    Faith requires you to accept things you don't understand. It's not blind faith, it's an acceptance that you aren't going to have the answers and just trust that there is something there.
    But what if that faith ISN'T REAL????

    I have determined there are two kinds of people. Some people want hope and some people want truth, regardless of how harsh the reality may be. Mark Twain echoes my sentiment--"Faith is believing in something you know ain't true." Fair enough. I have friends who chastise me and say, "What else is there?" The truth...

    And someone said "some people need faith". Exactly. Some people need to break out their Poison casette tapes and listen to "Gimme Something to Believe In" to get by. Just because you need something doesn't make it fact. Kids need Santy Claus, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny...doesn't make them real.

    Arguments that explain everything...explain nothing.
    “It never changes. Football is a game of repetition, mental and physical. You may try to articulate it a little different, but it's the same thing: Get better players, make fewer mistakes, and drill the fundamentals into your players' heads. The rest of it is a joke. Teams aren't winning because of what they had for breakfast or what some coach said in the locker room.” - Barry Switzer

  19. #19
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 soonerchk's Avatar
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    Re: Prayers and tornadoes

    What if it is and you're wrong?
    Omelet Posse Omelette


    "even when they stumble more than once, they never step into dog**** ... f***in' sooner magic."~another sad horn

  20. #20
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member The Maestro's Avatar
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    Re: Prayers and tornadoes

    Didn't mean to make this an atheist post. The three points I made in the first post were the point.
    “It never changes. Football is a game of repetition, mental and physical. You may try to articulate it a little different, but it's the same thing: Get better players, make fewer mistakes, and drill the fundamentals into your players' heads. The rest of it is a joke. Teams aren't winning because of what they had for breakfast or what some coach said in the locker room.” - Barry Switzer

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