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  1. #1
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Collier11's Avatar
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    Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    Lets hope the SC does the right thing and prohibits the banning of guns

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts1165



    Supreme Court to hear gun-rights case that reaches beyond 2nd Amendment

    Fri Feb 26, 9:33 pm ET


    As the high court's 2009-2010 term winds down, Yahoo! News will look at some key cases whose decisions have potential to impact the lives of everyday people.

    Nearly two years ago, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down a Washington, D.C., handgun ban in a landmark ruling with a 5-4 vote. The decision in District of Columbia v. Heller held that the Second Amendment does indeed protect an individual’s right to gun ownership (although there are still limits).Yet that ruling did not settle the question once and for all.

    Why? Because the District is a federal enclave, subject to federal laws. The ruling, therefore, did not address whether the Second Amendment applies to state and local governments. So while the Heller decision was hailed as a big victory for gun-rights advocates, it didn’t stop states or cities from enacting similar laws that restrict gun ownership. (D.C.-adjacent Maryland, for example, could have instituted the exact same ban and not gotten into legal hot water over it.)

    But in the next few months, the Supreme Court could take that extra step. On Tuesday, the justices will hear arguments from lawyers on both sides of a case brought by residents of Chicago who are seeking to have a handgun ban in their city struck down. They want the Second Amendment to apply to local governments the same way the high court said it applied to the federal government in Heller.

    Otis McDonald is the lead plaintiff in McDonald v. City of Chicago. The retired maintenance engineer says he wants to be able to keep a gun in his home to protect himself. But Chicago’s strict gun-control law, considered very similar to the law struck down in Heller, prohibits him from doing so. (McDonald, who was recently profiled in the Chicago Tribune, was hand-picked by lawyers hoping to bring this challenge. He happens to be black and a Democrat – a rarity among American gun-rights advocates, who are generally perceived to be white Republicans living in suburban or rural areas.)

    The legal catch in this case is that it’s not really about the Second Amendment. When Congress passed the Bill of Rights – the first 10 amendments to the Constitution – it only protected people from infringements by the federal government. The Supreme Court later decided that each of the amendments in the Bill of Rights must be applied to the states individually, with specific rulings. The court has done so with most amendments, but thus far not with the Second, which it has explicitly ruled should not be applied to the states.

    Instead, what will really be argued before the court is the Fourteenth Amendment, which has often been the vehicle the court has used to apply amendments from the Bill of Rights to the states. This amendment says, among other things, that the federal government cannot make or enforce any law that will "abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens" and cannot "deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."

    Lawyers for McDonald will argue their case mostly based on the "privileges or immunities" clause; the National Rifle Association, which has been given a chance to argue before the justices too, will present a case for gun rights that turns more on the "due process" clause.

    So, specifically, the question the high court must decide is this: Does the Fourteenth Amendment – either via the privileges-or-immunities clause or the due-process clause – mean that the Second Amendment protects people from state and local laws that abridge their right to bear arms?

    The answer to that question involves a lot of complicated legal history and interpretation, and if the court does rule in favor of broader Second Amendment protections, it will almost certainly have to contradict its rulings in earlier cases.

    The potential implications of this case are huge – and not just for gun rights. If the privileges-or-immunities argument prevails, it would bring back a constitutional argument that has been effectively dead since 1873, when a decision (known as the Slaughter-House cases) said that the clause only protects rights of national citizenship. But if the court reinterprets this clause, the wording is so broad that some think it could bring a flood of challenges to numerous other laws. Others fear a privileges-or-immunities revival will lead to too much judicial subjectivity.

    This case has something for both "gun nuts" and "constitutional nuts," as Supreme Court scholar Ilya Shapiro put it to the Washington Post. It could maintain the status quo; it could dramatically expand the protection of people’s Second Amendment rights; or it could do that and dramatically change an approach to constitutional law.

    Whatever the decision, we’ll probably know by the end of June, the last month of the court’s current term.

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  2. #2
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Crucifax Autumn's Avatar
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    Re: Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    That should be fun for the states rights people.
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  3. #3
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Collier11's Avatar
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    Re: Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    big ol can O worms for sure
    Ranger Reese of OVJ country, Patrollin tha hood.

    I Survived Drunkytown with OleVet and all I got was this rash!


    With a record of 109-23 (.826) and six Big 12 championships in 10 seasons, Stoops has reason to be arrogant. But he is not. He is somewhere between humble and unimpressed.
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  4. #4
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Crucifax Autumn's Avatar
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    Re: Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    It's gonna have a LOT of people arguing like it's opposite day.
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  5. #5
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Okla-homey's Avatar
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    Re: Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    The upshot of this case is, whether the Second Amendment applies to the actions of states, counties and municipalities.

    In lawyer-speak, it's about whether the Fourteenth Amendment, which "incorporates" your other civil rights found in the first ten amendments (a/k/a The Bill of Rights) and applies them against states, counties and municipalities, thus protecting you against these governments which may seek to infringe or trample on them, also incorporates the Second Amendment.

    My money is on incorporation. It's a no-brainer. But hey, I'm an admitted gun rights guy and I'm biased. But at least I'm consistent. I feel the so-called "tort reformists" are trampling on your Seventh Amendment rights and all that sexy localized "tort reform" crap oughtta be canned under the same Fourteenth Amendment "incorporation" analysis.
    "Discourage litigation. Persuade your neighbors to compromise whenever they can. Point out to them how the nominal winner is often a real loser; in fees, expenses and waste of time." -- Abraham Lincoln, (1809-1865) Lawyer and President who saved the United States.

    "Without opportunities on the part of the poor to obtain expert legal advice, it is idle to talk of equality before the law"-- Justice Chas. Evans Hughes

  6. #6

    Re: Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    With this SC, betting money would have to be with the guns.
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  7. #7
    Stayatworkdad yermom's Avatar
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    Re: Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    that's a nice touch involving a black Democrat

  8. #8
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 Half a Hundred's Avatar
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    Re: Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    Just so y'all know, accepting the "privileges or immunities" argument and overturning Slaughter-house would essentially end state sovereignty in any form.

    Luckily, it looked like the court, on both ends, wasn't having any part of that argument.
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  9. #9
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Collier11's Avatar
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    Re: Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    Quote Originally Posted by yermom View Post
    that's a nice touch involving a black Democrat
    manbearpig?
    Ranger Reese of OVJ country, Patrollin tha hood.

    I Survived Drunkytown with OleVet and all I got was this rash!


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  10. #10
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member LosAngelesSooner's Avatar
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    Re: Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    Does this mean I can start punching idiots in the face when they scream, "Obama is gonna take our gunzzzz!!!" ?
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  11. #11
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Harry Beanbag's Avatar
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    Re: Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    Quote Originally Posted by LosAngelesSooner View Post
    Does this mean I can start punching idiots in the face when they scream, "Obama is gonna take our gunzzzz!!!" ?
    What does Obama have to do with this upcoming decision?

  12. #12
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member LosAngelesSooner's Avatar
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    Re: Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    EXACTLY
    Reluctantly double secret Ninja-Maverick member of the Posse (in protest). That's right...Ice...Man...I AM dangerous.

    "You have to be aware that there's a line where legitimate concerns begin to collapse into paranoid fantasy." - David Frum, Conservative author and speechwriter for President George W. Bush

  13. #13
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Harry Beanbag's Avatar
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    Re: Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    For example, when Obama ran for the Illinois state senate the political group, Independent Voters of Illinois (IVI), asked him if he supported a “ban [on] the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns” and he responded “yes.”

    Realizing how damaging this could prove in the general election, his presidential campaign “flatly denied” Obama ever held this view, blaming it instead on a staffer from his state senate race.

    But then IVI provided Politico the questionnaire with Obama’s own handwritten notes revising another answer. Members of IVI’s board of directors, some of whom have worked on Obama’s past campaigns, told Politico that “I always believed those to be his views, what he really believes in, and he’s tailoring it now to make himself more palatable as a nationwide candidate.”

    But the IVI questionnaire isn’t the only one out there.

    In 1998, another questionnaire administered by IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test didn’t ask about banning all handguns, but it did find that Obama wanted to “ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.”

    Indeed, such a ban would outlaw virtually all handguns and the vast majority of rifles sold in the United States.

    In addition, from 1998 to 2001, Obama was on the board of directors for the Joyce Foundation, which funded such anti-gun groups as the Violence Policy Center, the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, and Handgun Free America. Both the Violence Policy Center and Handgun Free America, as its name suggests, are in favor of a complete ban on handguns. During his tenure on the board, the Joyce Foundation was probably the major funder of pro-control research in the United States.

    In fact, I knew Obama during the mid-1990s, and his answers to IVI’s question on guns fit well with the Obama that I knew. Indeed, the first time I introduced myself to him he said “Oh, you are the gun guy.”

    I responded “Yes, I guess so.” He simply responded that “I don’t believe that people should be able to own guns.”

    When I said it might be fun to talk about the question sometime and about his support of the city of Chicago’s lawsuit against the gun makers, he simply grimaced and turned away, ending the conversation.

    If taken literally, Obama’s statement to me was closer to what the IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test found, indicating that Obama's bans would extend well beyond handguns.

    Obama also opposes the current laws in 48 states that let citizens carry concealed handguns for protection claiming, despite all the academic studies to the contrary, that "I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."

    Even Hillary Clinton disagrees with him on this.
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,347690,00.html

    If he could, he would ban them all.

  14. #14
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member LosAngelesSooner's Avatar
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    Re: Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    Wait...so now you're saying he COULD ban all our guns?

    Make up your mind...
    Reluctantly double secret Ninja-Maverick member of the Posse (in protest). That's right...Ice...Man...I AM dangerous.

    "You have to be aware that there's a line where legitimate concerns begin to collapse into paranoid fantasy." - David Frum, Conservative author and speechwriter for President George W. Bush

  15. #15
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Harry Beanbag's Avatar
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    Re: Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    Can you read or is your ******* in the way?

  16. #16
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member LosAngelesSooner's Avatar
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    Re: Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    Well, make up your mind...either Obama is after our gunz and they are allz in danger or he's not.

    **** or get off the pot. We're at war.
    Reluctantly double secret Ninja-Maverick member of the Posse (in protest). That's right...Ice...Man...I AM dangerous.

    "You have to be aware that there's a line where legitimate concerns begin to collapse into paranoid fantasy." - David Frum, Conservative author and speechwriter for President George W. Bush

  17. #17
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Harry Beanbag's Avatar
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    Re: Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    You're rambling as usual. But to recap, I never stated he would or wouldn't, only that he has nothing to do with the Supreme Court decision. If he could take the guns, he would. That is undeniable.

    You of all people should be really worried about it with your imaginary Cali CCW and 1000 yard sniper shooting ability.

  18. #18
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Leroy Lizard's Avatar
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    Re: Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    Wait...so now you're saying he COULD ban all our guns?
    I guess your major was not closely related to reading comprehension.
    .
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  19. #19
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Crucifax Autumn's Avatar
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    Re: Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Beanbag View Post
    You of all people should be really worried about it with your imaginary Cali CCW and 1000 yard sniper shooting ability.
    He can shoot a gnat off Spielberg's dick at 300 yards!
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  20. #20
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Turd_Ferguson's Avatar
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    Re: Big gun rights case coming up potentially

    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifax Autumn View Post
    He can suck a gnat off Spielberg's dick at 300 yards!

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