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  1. #201
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 Jello Biafra's Avatar
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    Re: Why I Feel Our Defensive Coordinator Has To Go...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ground_Attack View Post
    Roy is over-rated at the NFL level based on his college hype.

    are you high?
    Ole Vet Posse SGT-AT-ARMS.

  2. #202
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 SoonerNate's Avatar
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    Re: Why I Feel Our Defensive Coordinator Has To Go...

    Why didn't we ever throw the ball? I was there. We had single coverage all night up top!! Bob tried to stall out the game and depend on his defense but once again the defense loses it's effectiveness when they are CONSTANTLY on the field.

    What happened to big game Bob? He has become more conservative than Ann Coulter!

    BTW, the U fans were the least classy fans I ever seen us play. I am tempted to move out of this cesspol now. I'm devastated.

  3. #203
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 cheezyq's Avatar
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    Re: Why I Feel Our Defensive Coordinator Has To Go...

    Quote Originally Posted by Collier11 View Post
    you can point out all the stats you want D but you cant deny that in both of our losses this season our D has made enough plays to win while our O has not
    And what was our D doing when it had to make a stop and get our offense on the field with 4 minutes left? It was allowing big plays, running and passing.

  4. #204
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Collier11's Avatar
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    Re: Why I Feel Our Defensive Coordinator Has To Go...

    That is a valid argument but my point is that our D isnt going to make every single stop, no D will. That posession is magnified cus of when it took place but the fact is our D gave up 21 the entire game to Miami(14 were their fault) and 14 to BYU, there is no reason we couldnt score 22 and 15
    Ranger Reese of OVJ country, Patrollin tha hood.

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  5. #205
    Sooner Benchwarmer Pigface1's Avatar
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    Re: Why I Feel Our Defensive Coordinator Has To Go...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ground_Attack View Post
    Now I realize that the colege game doesn't translate to the NFL 1:1 but lets thing about this. On that list above, how many of those players have been "game changing big game guys"? I'll say that Harris fits that title, but nobody else. Calmus, Torrance, Woolfolk all did little/nothing in the NFL for various reasons. Roy is over-rated at the NFL level based on his college hype.

    How much of their game changing, big game ability came from coaching and good scheming at OU. That is my stance. I think Mike Stoops put them in a position to be their best and allow them to become the college stars they were. Not that they were superior talents (aside from Harris).
    I don't think it's really fair to talk about what they did or didn't do in the NFL. Heupel and White didn't go to the NFL.

    Woolfolk ended up being a hell of a shut down CB, and iirc he was first moved to that spot to lock up Roy Williams of Texas. RW never scored a TD on OU.

    How can you not say Calmus, Torrance, and TRRW weren't game changers? INTs at crucial times, big time plays in big games. Derek Strait's another.

    I don't disagree that Mike Stoops made a difference, though. I just don't see the same level of talent across the board on defense. Or maybe it's just attitude. Travis Lewis could end up being one of the great OU LBs once all is said and done, but he's not there yet, IMO.

  6. #206
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 SoonerLB's Avatar
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    Re: I have held my fire for 1 season

    Quote Originally Posted by soon3rfan View Post
    FIREKEVINWILSON.COM? I have been looking everywhere for this site and I can't seem to find it?
    It got stuffed on a draw play.
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  7. #207
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    Re: Why I Feel Our Defensive Coordinator Has To Go...

    The fact is when we absolutely need a stop we can't get it. Why? Because we have a bend but don't break defense. Look at the Tulsa game. How many times were they in our territory? We don't get many 3 and outs. We bend bend bend and hope the quarterback makes a mistake or we sack the quarterback. Otherwise they dink and dunk us until we blow an assignment.

  8. #208
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 soonervegas's Avatar
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    Re: Why I Feel Our Defensive Coordinator Has To Go...

    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerNate View Post
    cesspol
    Truer words have never been spoken.

    You couldn't pay me to visit that city again. All hype....

  9. #209
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    Re: Why I Feel Our Defensive Coordinator Has To Go...

    Quote Originally Posted by Collier11 View Post
    but the fact is our D gave up 21 the entire game to Miami(14 were their fault) and 14 to BYU, there is no reason we couldnt score 22 and 15

    and THIS is why i have been questioning the killer instinct in this coaching staffs minds.....


    i remember back in the ealry 2000s where we wouldn't leave points on the table at any point. we were going for it and the opponents knew it and couldn't do a f'ing thing about it. the two that stick out most in my mind right now are...missou fake FG and the bama fake punt....any more>?


    bottom line, with a little more than 4 minutes to go in the game, 4th and 12, go for it. if you trust the defense, put them in position to step up, make a few stops and maybe a sack or two that would produce a 4th and 15+ situation and give us the ball back with about 2 minutes to go with less than 50 yards to go. best case scenario, we get 13yards to the miami 9 with 4 minutes to go. worst case, they get the ball at the 22 and you make miami play with the lead...(ie play not to lose) they fumble, throw a pick. get stuffed 3 times in a row. we get the ball running down hill.
    Ole Vet Posse SGT-AT-ARMS.

  10. #210
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: I have held my fire for 1 season

    Quote Originally Posted by prrriiide View Post
    You just defeated your own argument...the defense needed to step up, and they didn't. I think Crow is still trying to figure out which way Shipley went. His lack of preparation is squarely on the shoulders of the defensive coaching. Bob gives the coaches, esp. the coordinators a lot of autonomy with personnel. For us not to have a LB ready to play in RR's absence is all on BV. He is the DC and the LB coach.

    I'm sure the defensive breakdowns that led to a 37-yard reception to Shiply to the one and a 62-yard run by Ogbonnaya to the two for texass' two TDs in the half were caused directly by the offense. Shipley and Ogbonnaya were on the field every minute as long as our D.

    More telling is texass' first scoring drive of the second half. OU held them to 3 & out on their first drive. We went down the field and scored to take the lead. Then texass came right back and went down the field and scored. The key play of that drive was a critical 3rd & 6. Guess what texass did? They threw an underneath timing route good for 10 yards. OU's D couldn't have been gassed at that point. They had been on the field for all of 2 minutes on the first 3 & out, and 2 minutes of the second drive. BV's cushion scheme allowed texass to get the first down and they never looked back.

    Those are plays we have to make. On 3rd and 6, our defense needs to put the clamps on and not give up an inch, much less a 1st down. BV's scheme puts our defense at an automatic disadvantage in those situations. It was the same scheme that got us beat two nights ago.
    The defense made a stop if I'm not mistaken. The offense had 1 first down after that score. We needed the offense to step up more if anything because we lost our leader in the middle of the game. I don't think even the 2000 D steps up if Rocky gets hurt and is out for the game in the middle of the A&M game.

  11. #211
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 Ground_Attack's Avatar
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    Re: Why I Feel Our Defensive Coordinator Has To Go...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pigface1 View Post
    I don't think it's really fair to talk about what they did or didn't do in the NFL. Heupel and White didn't go to the NFL.

    Woolfolk ended up being a hell of a shut down CB, and iirc he was first moved to that spot to lock up Roy Williams of Texas. RW never scored a TD on OU.

    How can you not say Calmus, Torrance, and TRRW weren't game changers? INTs at crucial times, big time plays in big games. Derek Strait's another.

    I don't disagree that Mike Stoops made a difference, though. I just don't see the same level of talent across the board on defense. Or maybe it's just attitude. Travis Lewis could end up being one of the great OU LBs once all is said and done, but he's not there yet, IMO.
    I failed to include a very importat qualifier on my post. What I meant was that, other than Harris, none of those guys were game changers at the NFL level. All were superb at the college level and were definitely game changers. I hope that clears up some confusion and removes me from your "dumbass" lists! lol

  12. #212
    Sooner Benchwarmer Pigface1's Avatar
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    Re: Why I Feel Our Defensive Coordinator Has To Go...

    lol No, I understand what you're saying. Really, though, I think some of it was b/c those guys were scared to mess up. They knew Mike Stoops would be waiting for them after the game if they did. lol

  13. #213
    Sooner All-World StoopTroup's Avatar
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    Re: Why I Feel Our Defensive Coordinator Has To Go...

    You want to what?


  14. #214
    Sooner All-World StoopTroup's Avatar
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    Re: Why I Feel Our Defensive Coordinator Has To Go...

    I oughta......


  15. #215
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 cheezyq's Avatar
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    Re: Why I Feel Our Defensive Coordinator Has To Go...

    Quote Originally Posted by Collier11 View Post
    That is a valid argument but my point is that our D isnt going to make every single stop, no D will. That posession is magnified cus of when it took place but the fact is our D gave up 21 the entire game to Miami(14 were their fault) and 14 to BYU, there is no reason we couldnt score 22 and 15
    I think we all agree that this loss was a team effort. I especially loved KW's playcalling when we got down by 2 scores. Nothing scares a fast defense more than a draw on 3rd and 18 in your own territory. <please note the sarcasm> So there's plenty to criticize about the offense.

    But the fact is that we have a defense that is capable of much more than what we're getting out of it. It has been that way for YEARS. The problem isn't that we don't have the right players to make the plays, it's that they're out of position frequently. This is never more evident than when the game is close, and we just can't come up with a stop. The players are fast enough and strong enough to limit the damage to 10- to 15-yard plays most of the time, instead of 60-yard touchdowns. But if the down and distance is 3rd and 9, and you give up 12, it's still bad defense.

    We run a zone that lets other teams complete passes in front of us, and then we run to the ball to make the stop. This works great against Idaho State. But against teams with athletes that can run routes in the middle, we struggle heavily. The additional problem is that the difference between a team like OU/Texas/Florida and a team like Miami/BYU/KU or even marginal teams, is not in the skill players. Almost all FBS teams recruit decent skill players. The elite teams have better players in the trenches and on defense.

    That is why we struggle against mediocre teams, and crumble against good teams...because we allow their skill players to get open over the middle, even if we're putting pressure on their QB. With a Venables scheme, half the time it doesn't even matter if we blitz or get pressure with the front four...all a QB has to do is find an open receiver 5-10 yards downfield, and it's an automatic first down. Miss a tackle or two, and it's a 40-yard play. Complicating matters, we RARELY run stunts or zone blitzes. We'll throw a few linebacker and corner blitzes in, but those are easily stopped schematically. This gives the QB extra time, and those completions over the middle now get longer, into the 15- to 25-yard range.

    This is a consistent problem with the defense. The offensive issues are a little more complicated, but it also comes down to playcalling. I also think we have enough talent to run a pro-style offense, not a gimmick spread out of the shotgun. This offense is predictable and easy for good teams to stop. We are at our best when we are switching up between lining up under center and the occasional shotgun. But too often we sit back in shotgun formation and telegraph our plays. Even worse, when you sit back in a shotgun, you put more pressure on the offensive line. The offensive line turns into a defense, essentially, in protecting the QB, and takes away aggressiveness. Do it too often, and we will pile up penalties as we flail at defenders passing by.

    Once in a while, KW will get on a roll and mix it up well. But in big games he will frequently get stymied if he's taken out of rhythm, and it takes a long time for him to adjust and get back into rhythm.

  16. #216
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    Re: I have held my fire for 1 season

    Quote Originally Posted by rawlingsHOH View Post
    So playing Top 5 Oregon wasn't a big game, because Dixon was unproven?

    Winning a road game, which lead to a Big 12 title, down in College Station, against (8-1) Texas A&M, wasn't a big game?

    So predictable!!!!

    LOL
    Brady Lief threw the INT that stopped their drive not Dixon- Lief was the QB in Q4

  17. #217
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: I have held my fire for 1 season

    Quote Originally Posted by Jdog View Post
    Brady Lief threw the INT that stopped their drive not Dixon- Lief was the QB in Q4
    I remember! And Leaf was also the QB that got them back in the game.

    Regardless... So OU beating another team's back-up QB keeps it from qualifying as a big win?

    You ain't going to shake the double-standard.

    Just sayin'

  18. #218
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    Re: I have held my fire for 1 season

    Quote Originally Posted by rawlingsHOH View Post
    So playing Top 5 Oregon wasn't a big game, because Dixon was unproven?

    Winning a road game, which lead to a Big 12 title, down in College Station, against (8-1) Texas A&M, wasn't a big game?

    So predictable!!!!

    LOL
    Aggies were 9 and 4 at the end of the year - they were not a great team.

  19. #219
    I'm a shootist Curly Bill's Avatar
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    Re: Why I Feel Our Defensive Coordinator Has To Go...

    BV doesn't have the mental acumen to develop a gameplan beyond the scheme he already knows -- hell, it probably took him years just to learn that. To expect he might be capable of making in game adjustments to take away something the offense is having success with is beyond anything he's remotely capable of.

    Basically he's a musclehead.
    Behold the pale horse. The man who sat on him was death, and Hell followed with him.

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  20. #220
    Ready for Baseball Season tulsaoilerfan's Avatar
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    Re: Why I Feel Our Defensive Coordinator Has To Go...

    Quote Originally Posted by Collier11 View Post
    you can point out all the stats you want D but you cant deny that in both of our losses this season our D has made enough plays to win while our O has not
    The D allowed BYU to drive down the field in the 4th quarter when OU had the lead; how is that making enough plays to win?

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