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  1. #1
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member soonerhubs's Avatar
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    An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation

    I just figured this topic needs a fresh thread that's not bogged down by the Left/Right circle jerk we grow so tired of.

    There are monumental events happening that I think warrant some objective discussion. There's this...
    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...-jajQD98VD96O0
    Struggle among Iran's clerics bursts into the open
    By NASSER KARIMI and MICHAEL WEISSENSTEIN – 21 minutes ago
    TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — A backstage struggle among Iran's ruling clerics burst into the open Sunday when the government said it had arrested the daughter and other relatives of an ayatollah who is one of the country's most powerful men.
    State media said four relatives of former President Hashemi Rafsanjani were later released, but the arrests appeared to be a clear warning from the hardline establishment to a cleric who may be aligning himself with the opposition.
    Iran's state-owned Press TV reported Sunday night that Rafsanjani's daughter was still under arrest, citing an unnamed Iranian security official.
    Tehran's streets fell mostly quiet for the first time since a bitterly disputed June 12 presidential election, but cries of "God is great!" echoed again from rooftops after dark, a sign of seething anger at a government crackdown that peaked with at least 10 protesters' deaths Saturday.
    The killings drove the official death toll to at least 17 after a week of massive street demonstrations by protesters who say hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad stole his re-election win. But searing images posted online — including gruesome video purporting to show the fatal shooting of a teenage girl — hinted the true toll may be higher.
    Police and the feared Basij militia swarmed the streets of Tehran to prevent more protests and the government intensified a crackdown on independent media — expelling a BBC correspondent, suspending the Dubai-based network Al-Arabiya and detaining at least two local journalists for U.S. magazines.
    English-language state television said an exile group known as the People's Mujahedeen had a hand in street violence and broadcast what it said were confessions of British-controlled agents in an indication that the government, vilifying the opposition, was ready to crack down even harder.
    Opposition leader Mir Hossein Mousavi warned supporters of danger ahead, and said he would stand by the protesters "at all times." But in letters posted on his allies' Web sites Saturday and Sunday, he said he would "never allow anybody's life to be endangered because of my actions" and called for pursuing fraud claims through an independent board.
    The former prime minister, a longtime loyalist of the Islamic government, also called the Basij and military "our brothers" and "protectors of our revolution and regime." He may be trying to constrain his followers' demands before they pose a mortal threat to Iran's quixotic system of limited democracy constrained by Shiite clerics, who have ultimate authority.
    His chances of success within the system would be far higher if he has backers among those clerics.
    In the clearest sign yet of a splintering among the ayatollahs, state media announced the arrests of Rafsanjani's relatives including his daughter Faezeh, a 46-year-old reformist politician vilified by hard-liners for her open support of Mousavi.
    State media said Rafsanjani's relatives had been held for their own protection.
    "That is a major escalation and ratchets up the conflict with Rafsanjani," said Michael Wahid Hanna, a regional affairs analyst with the Century Foundation, a New York think tank. "It really raises the stakes."
    Rafsanjani heads the cleric-run Assembly of Experts, which can remove the supreme leader, the country's most powerful figure. He also chairs the Expediency Council, a body that arbitrates disputes between parliament and the unelected Guardian Council.
    Rafsanjani and his family have been accused of corruption by Ahmadinejad. And the 75-year-old ayatollah was conspicuously absent Friday from an address by the country's supreme leader calling for national unity and siding with the president.
    That fueled speculation that Rafsanjani, who has made no public comment since the election, may be working behind the scenes and favoring Mousavi.
    The Assembly of Experts has not publicly reprimanded Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei since he succeeded Islamic Revolution founder Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini in 1989. But this crisis has rattled the once-untouchable stature of the supreme leader.
    Protesters have openly defied his orders to leave the streets and witnesses said some shouted "Death to Khamenei!" at Saturday's demonstrations — a once unthinkable challenge.
    At least some lower-ranking clergy also appeared to have broken with the supreme leader. Photos posted by a moderate conservative news Web site showed what appeared to be mullahs in brown robes and white turbans protesting alongside a crowd of young men, some wearing the green shirts or sashes symbolizing Mousavi's self-described "Green Wave" movement.
    The images and others flooding out from Iran in recent days could not immediately be independently verified due to government restrictions on foreign media, who were banned from reporting on Tehran's streets.
    Ahmadinejad appeared to be courting his own clerical support. State television showed him meeting with mullahs at the presidential palace and telling them the election had demonstrated popular love for the regime.
    He criticized British Prime Minister Gordon Brown and President Barack Obama, who on Saturday urged Iranian authorities to halt "all violent and unjust actions against its own people."
    "With that behavior you will not be among Iran's friends," Ahmadinejad said, in a potentially ominous sign for Obama's recent efforts to warm relations with Iran.
    Strengthening Ahmadinejad's position, Iran's military issued a thinly veiled warning to Mousavi after days of silence.
    "We are determined to confront plots by enemies aimed at creating a rift in the nation," said Gen. Gholam Ali Rashid, acting joint chief of the armed forces.
    Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki accused Britain of sending spies to manipulate the election, blasted France for "treacherous and unjust approaches" and said Germany had unfairly criticized Iran's government.
    Blaming foreign conspirators is a staple of Iranian government rhetoric that resonates for many in a country with a long history of manipulation by Britain, the U.S. and other powers.
    British Foreign Secretary David Miliband "categorically" denied his country was meddling and German Chancellor Angela Merkel urged Iran anew to conduct a complete and transparent recount.
    "This can only damage Iran's standing in the eyes of the world," Miliband said.
    The British Broadcasting Corp. said its Tehran-based correspondent, Jon Leyne, had been asked to leave the country but its office remained open. Newsweek said journalist Maziar Bahari, a Canadian citizen, had been detained without charge and LIFE reported the arrest of the photojournalist who took an iconic photograph of a young woman in a headscarf making a "V" for victory gesture at the camera as white smoke roiled in the background. It did not reveal the photographer's name.
    Reporters Without Borders said 23 journalists had been arrested during the past week.
    There were unconfirmed reports of small demonstrations and clashes Sunday, and stores were closed in Tehran neighborhoods that saw violence the day. Life appeared to be normal in other parts of Tehran on Sunday, a weekday in Iran, but experts cautioned that it could be a brief lull and not the end of Iran's worst internal turmoil in three decades.
    Weissenstein reported from Cairo.
    Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
    But there there is so much more to learn about this situation.

    I have to be honest and say I didn't know much about the Supreme Leader.

    Nor did I know much about how Iran's political system has been running, but this is BIG.

    Thoughts? Insights? If you has them, will you share em?
    TIA!

  2. #2
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation

    I haven't kept up much
    just seems now the religious leaders are fightin amongst themselves .

    I think whatever happens there's gonna be some big changes
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  3. #3
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Turd_Ferguson's Avatar
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    Re: An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation

    Turn that place into glass....NOW!



    I keed

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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Turd_Ferguson's Avatar
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    Re: An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation

    Quote Originally Posted by olevetonahill View Post
    I haven't kept up much
    just seems now the religious leaders are fightin amongst themselves .

    I think whatever happens there's gonna be some big changes
    Concur.

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    I'm a shootist Curly Bill's Avatar
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    Re: An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation

    I honestly didn't read that entire thing, but it does look like things could get interesting over there.

    ...maybe I should say: more interesting.
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  6. #6
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation

    Hell Ill be happy if a more stable Gov. comes out of this mess.
    Dont really care if they are More Favorable to US or not as long as they lose the Hate US crap.
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  7. #7
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Crucifax Autumn's Avatar
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    Re: An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation

    I think if they'd get a government that is both stable and actually represents the majority of Iranians who want to be a real part of the world things will be infinitely better in the region and even the world.
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  8. #8
    Support Landry Jones! CK Sooner's Avatar
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    Re: An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation

    Iran is a cluster**** of bull****.

  9. #9
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Jacie's Avatar
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    Re: An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation

    The absurdity of accusing foreign governments using spies to foment unrest is incredible. At the same time, how bad does it have to get before the ayatollahs cut the little dictator loose and allow something approaching a fair election to take place? The killing of a young girl, caught on video and shown around the world is powerful stuff and it is not going to go away simply because the leaders there choose to ignore it.

  10. #10
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member soonerhubs's Avatar
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    Re: An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacie View Post
    The absurdity of accusing foreign governments using spies to foment unrest is incredible. At the same time, how bad does it have to get before the ayatollahs cut the little dictator loose and allow something approaching a fair election to take place? The killing of a young girl, caught on video and shown around the world is powerful stuff and it is not going to go away simply because the leaders there choose to ignore it.
    I believe you are correct. For better or for worse in it's numerous contexts, the internet has made major changes in society. I'd suggest that this is one extreme example.

    I'll never look at Twitter, Youtube, or Facebook the same way again.

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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Okla-homey's Avatar
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    Re: An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation

    IMHO the kids doing the protesting who were born after the Islamic revolution are our best hope. They can return their country to some semblance of a secular state, but they need our support. We shouldn't leave them hanging out to dry like we did the revolting Iraqi Kurds following Gulf War I.
    "Discourage litigation. Persuade your neighbors to compromise whenever they can. Point out to them how the nominal winner is often a real loser; in fees, expenses and waste of time." -- Abraham Lincoln, (1809-1865) Lawyer and President who saved the United States.

    "Without opportunities on the part of the poor to obtain expert legal advice, it is idle to talk of equality before the law"-- Justice Chas. Evans Hughes

  12. #12
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation

    Quote Originally Posted by CK Sooner View Post
    Iran is a cluster**** of bull****.
    Nice intelligent post, reflecting what Hub wanted
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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member King Crimson's Avatar
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    Re: An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation

    Quote Originally Posted by Okla-homey View Post
    IMHO the kids doing the protesting who were born after the Islamic revolution are our best hope. They can return their country to some semblance of a secular state, but they need our support.
    it's more than that. Iran has a quasi-secular, educated middle class. if you've been listening at all to the BBC world service for the last year, none of this should surprise you.

    everyone i know who "studies" the middle east (academics, Leninists, and loose women) are all pretty much agreed the election was fixed.
    “someone's controlling the vibes!"--apache dropout

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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Okla-homey's Avatar
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    Re: An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation

    Quote Originally Posted by King Crimson View Post
    it's more than that. Iran has a quasi-secular, educated middle class. if you've been listening at all to the BBC world service for the last year, none of this should surprise you.

    everyone i know who "studies" the middle east (academics, Leninists, and loose women) are all pretty much agreed the election was fixed.
    There's no question. But the mullahs in charge aren't going to go off quietly into the night. Perhaps we should be like Bourbon France was to the American colonists in helping those kids' and the Iranian intelligentsia's revolution. But we have to do it on the down-low with covert ops and plausible deniability so as not to further inflame the America haters both here and abroad.
    "Discourage litigation. Persuade your neighbors to compromise whenever they can. Point out to them how the nominal winner is often a real loser; in fees, expenses and waste of time." -- Abraham Lincoln, (1809-1865) Lawyer and President who saved the United States.

    "Without opportunities on the part of the poor to obtain expert legal advice, it is idle to talk of equality before the law"-- Justice Chas. Evans Hughes

  15. #15
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member JohnnyMack's Avatar
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    Re: An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation


  16. #16
    Sooner Starter AggieTool's Avatar
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    Re: An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation

    The big misconception is that this is about freedom.

    The opposition merely wants a return to the vision of the '70s
    revolution that was about Islam.

    The status-quo wants to maintain the autocratic-military dictatorship it currently is.
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  17. #17
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation

    Im thinkin this is a dance we should sit out .

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090622/..._wh/us_us_iran
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  18. #18
    Sooner All-World olevetonahill's Avatar
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    Re: An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation

    Dayum , after readin that I pretty much agree with the Dems. approach

    But really we need to stay the **** out of it and Hope for the best .
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  19. #19
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Crucifax Autumn's Avatar
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    Re: An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation

    I have to say that sitting it out is a good idea. If we start trying to push anything there the Mullahs and the idiot can say "see...I told you about those imperialist Americans" and the people on the fence there will lean toward nationalism and away from secularism and truly entering the world stage in a friendly way.
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  20. #20
    Support Landry Jones! CK Sooner's Avatar
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    Re: An Objective Thread Discussing the Iran Situtation

    Quote Originally Posted by olevetonahill View Post
    Nice intelligent post, reflecting what Hub wanted
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