Super Dooper Stimulus Package

[47straight]

Is it really too much to ask that our estimated $900B stimulus package be directly solely at the real engines of our economy and infrastructure?

I'm trying to be on board. I don't really think we can merely spend our way out of this, but I'm hoping that as long as the money is actually well spent it can't hurt.

In Obama's inaugural address, he called not for big government or small government, but effective government. To me, effective government requires that every dollar spent (ok, I'll compromise, every $10k spent) in this stimulus bill actually fit into a coherent plan to *stimulate.* Not just spend.

My gut says that it's just one big giant ball of pork. Or pork by-product. The largest can of spam ever dreamed by man. The Tower of Babel of pork. It smells ripe for corruption. It's too much money handed out without enough oversight.

Obamamaniacs and economic junkies: please tell me why I'm wrong, why every dollar shouldn't specifically go to powering industry, educating people <for work>, increasing efficiency, valuable engineering and scientific research. I want only things that have positive ROI, and not just ROI because there's $900B more floating out there.

Also feel free to show me the actual list because I (like most americans) am fairly ignorant, and don't really trust the press reports on what is and isn't there.


Maybe Tom Coburn will filibuster and haze his fellow senators line item by line item. That would be pretty sweet.

[OUHOMER]

I hope Dr Tom will tell us. Hes the only one I trust when it some to this.

[Okla-homey]

IMHO, if they really wanted to stoke our economic furnace, Congress should restore the federal income tax deduction for interest paid on new car loans and consumer credit accounts for the foreseeable future.

But that wouldn't involve sending stacks of cash to every single congressional district in the United States. So they won't do it.

[Vaevictis]

IMHO, if they really wanted to stoke our economic furnace, Congress should restore the federal income tax deduction for interest paid on new car loans and consumer credit accounts for the foreseeable future.

(1) Gotta unlock credit markets first.
(2) Wait, so we want consumers and companies to get into even MORE debt?
(2) A rather large portion of that money is going to go overseas as consumers purchase imported goods.

I'll pass on that plan.

[Vaevictis]

Obamamaniacs and economic junkies: please tell me why I'm wrong, why every dollar shouldn't specifically go to powering industry, educating people <for work>, increasing efficiency, valuable engineering and scientific research. I want only things that have positive ROI, and not just ROI because there's $900B more floating out there.

I agree with you that this is how it should be done.

However, given our political system, there will (unfortunately) be some back-scratching going on.

Ideally, I would rather see projects that directly assist industry; improving transportation, improving efficiency in terms of energy production and use, finding ways to make it more efficient to build in the USA instead of outsourcing.

In terms of monkey'ing around with tax code, if that's something you want to do, there are better ways to encourage that -- shuffle depreciation schedules so that domestic projects get favorable depreciation, jack up tax rates in the short term to force companies to use their built in tax-shelter properties, etc.

Education is a red-herring, IMO. We've got plenty of well-educated people out of work, what we need is jobs that need that education to put them into, and a way to get those people TO those jobs. I don't know what to do about the first part, but relocation assistance can help with the second.

What I do know is that we don't need more PhD's. If you go do the ROI calculations, you'll find that most fields don't yield a net return on investment for a PhD. About the only one I know of is -- strangely enough -- finance. The only people who get a net return are people who immigrate here, and that's because their alternatives are poor.

[batonrougesooner]

This whole stimulus package is completely insane. Spending nearly a trillion dollars of money we don't have towards such poorly defined goals. It's just good money after bad as they say. This thing is such a bad idea it is surreal.

[85Sooner]

200,000,000.00 (two hundred million) To rebuild the mall (lay grass) to fix the trash and destruction caused by all those who attended the Inauguration. OUT

650 million for TV converters. jeeesh stimulus program costs $3003.00 Per person.

Want economic stimulus? Get rid of the tax structure and institute the FAIR tax.

[OklahomaTuba]

$335,000,000 for STD prevention???

Thanks Barack!!!!!

[OklahomaTuba]

The stimulus is an even bigger crap sandwich than you thought...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123310466514522309.html

"Never let a serious crisis go to waste. What I mean by that is it's an opportunity to do things you couldn't do before." - White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel

[OklahomaTuba]

$646,214 Per Government Job...

House Democrats propose to spend $550 billion of their two-year, $825 billion "stimulus bill" (the rest of it being tax cuts). Most of the spending is unlikely to be timely or temporary. Strangely, most of it is targeted toward sectors of the economy where unemployment is the lowest.

The December unemployment rate was only 2.3% for government workers and 3.8% in education and health. Unemployment rates in manufacturing and construction, by contrast, were 8.3% and 15.2% respectively. Yet 39% of the $550 billion in the bill would go to state and local governments. Another 17.3% would go to health and education -- sectors where relatively secure government jobs are also prevalent.

If the intent of the plan is to alleviate unemployment, why spend over half of the money on sectors where unemployment is lowest?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123310498020322323.html

[Vaevictis]

Want economic stimulus? Get rid of the tax structure and institute the FAIR tax.

And while we're at it, let's gut a chicken and use its entrails to divine the future.

[TUSooner]

I can't help it, but everytime I see "stimulus package" I think about something you can buy from a machine in a truck stop bathroom. I guess both involve somebody getting....

[OklahomaTuba]

I can't help it, but everytime I see "stimulus package" I think about something you can buy from a machine in a truck stop bathroom. I guess both involve somebody getting....

Obviously, you aren't alone in that, since millions of $$$ made it into the "stimulus" for condoms and abortions.

[TUSooner]

Obviously, you aren't alone in that, since millions of $$$ made it into the "stimulus" for condoms and abortions.

Only YOU could come up with THAT response to a post like mine.

[Frozen Sooner]

IMHO, if they really wanted to stoke our economic furnace, Congress should restore the federal income tax deduction for interest paid on new car loans and consumer credit accounts for the foreseeable future.

But that wouldn't involve sending stacks of cash to every single congressional district in the United States. So they won't do it.

I'm down with that. I'd be down with extending that to all consumer debt to take away some of the incentive to treat your house like an ATM.

[soonerbrat]

i think this is what bothers me most. I don't want my medical records electronic and online nationwide.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/18/us...tml?ref=health

[Chuck Bao]

You are right, right, right, 47straight, 47 times.

I would like to see a stimulus package composed only of construction of transit and mass transit projects that would 1) provide long term revenue and return, 2) improve the efficiency in the shipment of products and enhance US competitiveness in the world market, 3) lower the US reliance on imported oil and 4) increase the home values in newly linked suburban areas.

Unemployment in the construction sector is currently what?

Bt900bn could go a very long way, if you consider a debt/equity ratio of 3-4 times on pretty reliable long term earnings stream. Besides that, it could be privatized later and the Federal Government could fully recoup the money.

[OklahomaTuba]

Of course, a mass transit project takes many, many years. So it probably won't do anything to stimulate the economy for many, many years.

Best thing to do is do something that actually works, and that mean cut taxes and insuring the so called "toxic assets" that are about to take down our largest banks.

Maybe give everyone a "coupon" to help buy an American made car, something other than buying votes for 2010 elections would be nice as well.

[85Sooner]

Here is a better layout. Over 2 billion to improve low income houseing. Guess they need to get this ready for alot of us.

$44 million for repairs at the Agriculture Department headquarters in Washington.

$200 million to rehabilitate the National Mall. (READ: CLEAN UP MESS FROM INAUGURATION)

$360 million for new child care centers at military bases.

$1.8 billion to repair National Park Service facilities.

$276 million to update technology at the State Department.

$500 million for the Transportation Security Administration to install bomb detectors at airports. ( don't they already have these?)

$600 million for General Services Administration to replace older vehicles with alternative fuel vehicles.

$2.5 billion to upgrade low-income housing.

$400 million for NASA scientists to conduct climate change research.

$426 million to construct facilities at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

$800 million to clean up Superfund sites. (Don't know what a superfund site is) probably where they keep the money that they are shoveling to CEOS.

$150 million for the Coast Guard to repair or remove bridges deemed a hazard to navigation. ( Wouldn't that be the corp of engineers?)

$6.7 billion to renovate and improve energy efficiency at federal buildings.

$400 million to replace the Social Security Administration's 30-year-old National Computer Center.

[1890MilesToNorman]

Look at this here pretty carrot in my left hand, don't mind the sledge hammer in my right.