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  1. #1

    Nightmare political scenario

    So in a possible political outcome based on the current data could be a more dicey situation then in 2000. If the election were held today and the poll data was all accurate. Below, would be the scenario as given today.

    McCain would win the popular election.

    There would be a tie in the electoral college 269-269. McCain and Obama actually are tied if you look at a state by state breakdown in polling.

    Obama would presumably win the election by a vote of the House of Representatives.

    How you like them apples.
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  2. #2
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member
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    Re: Nightmare political scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by jthomasou78 View Post
    McCain would win the popular election.

    There would be a tie in the electoral college 269-269. McCain and Obama actually are tied if you look at a state by state breakdown in polling.

    Obama would presumably win the election by a vote of the House of Representatives.
    Oh the wailing and gnashing as the pubz decry the fundamental unfairness of the electoral college, just like the demz did in 2000. Bonus points if the pubz complain about the House voting to decide the election instead of it being decided by those evil activist judges instead. Good times.
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    Superbia in Proelio royalfan5's Avatar
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    Re: Nightmare political scenario

    I would guess that a dead tie wouldn't happen because Obama will get one of the Nebraska votes, mostly likely the second district since we don't do winner takes all.
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    Re: Nightmare political scenario

    It's a nightmare that has already happened once.

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    Re: Nightmare political scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by jthomasou78 View Post
    So in a possible political outcome based on the current data could be a more dicey situation then in 2000. If the election were held today and the poll data was all accurate. Below, would be the scenario as given today.

    McCain would win the popular election.

    There would be a tie in the electoral college 269-269. McCain and Obama actually are tied if you look at a state by state breakdown in polling.

    Obama would presumably win the election by a vote of the House of Representatives.

    How you like them apples.
    I would love it. Anything that abolishes the electoral college faster is ok by me.
    Boomer Sooner

  6. #6
    Answers - 25 Cents Rogue's Avatar
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    Re: Nightmare political scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerscuba View Post
    I would love it. Anything that abolishes the electoral college faster is ok by me.
    Agreed.
    And one vote for one person in a national election.

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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member AlbqSooner's Avatar
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    Re: Nightmare political scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue View Post
    Agreed.
    And one vote for one person in a national election.
    Does that "one person" have to be alive at the time of the election for his/her vote to be counted?
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  8. #8
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    Re: Nightmare political scenario

    eh. It's a post-convention bounce I think. Obammer got one (altho not as much as some expected), and now the old dude is getting his...Its showing up now mainly due to the fact that polls are reported a few days after they are taken. But it's closer. I wouldn't put much stock in it though. The convention bounces are well known phenomena.

  9. #9
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member tommieharris91's Avatar
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    Re: Nightmare political scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by royalfan5 View Post
    I would guess that a dead tie wouldn't happen because Obama will get one of the Nebraska votes, mostly likely the second district since we don't do winner takes all.
    I think Minnesota can do something like this too.
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    Emma's Daddy! SoonerStormchaser's Avatar
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    Re: Nightmare political scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqSooner View Post
    Does that "one person" have to be alive at the time of the election for his/her vote to be counted?
    Historically...By the Dem rules, they don't.

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    Re: Nightmare political scenario

    Abolishment of the electoral college would not be good for those of us in the Great Plains (I lifted the following from a couple websites):

    Under a system of a strictly popular vote, a candidate would only have to campaign and demagogue to heavily-populated areas such as southern California, Texas, New York, and Florida. Candidates would never need to campaign in states like Delaware, Wyoming, and South Dakota or even Kansas or Oklahoma. Thus, in effect, the country would be run by mob rule, by the citizens of the few, densely-populated areas with similar demographics; it would likely be a system of minority rule despite the intents of those who favor this system.

    To understand the need for the Electoral College, you also have to understand the foundation of the United States in the first place. Notice that the country is named the "United States", not the "United People". Independent sovereign states (nations) once inhabited this land.

    Furthermore, we live in a federation/republic. The best example of this is the U.S. Congress. The Congress is divided into two houses. The House of Representatives was created as a representation of the will of the people, giving each equally populated block of citizens a single representation with equal power. The Senate, on the other hand, which is more powerful, is not a representation of the people, but a representation of the states (state governments, if you will). In the Senate, each state has exactly two representatives, giving EVERY state equal power. The Senate was created to encourage those very small states to enter the Union. Otherwise, it would not be logical for states with tiny populations (relative to the U.S. population) to enter into a true representative Union as they would be relinquishing their own sovereign power over themselves by doing so.
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    I'm a shootist Curly Bill's Avatar
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    Re: Nightmare political scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerscuba View Post
    I would love it. Anything that abolishes the electoral college faster is ok by me.
    Never gonna happen. It would take a constitutional amendment and you're never going to get 75% of the states to ratify it. As the system now stands small states are over-represented, they will not vote to give that up.
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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Harry Beanbag's Avatar
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    Re: Nightmare political scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by mdklatt View Post
    Oh the wailing and gnashing as the pubz decry the fundamental unfairness of the electoral college, just like the demz did in 2000. Bonus points if the pubz complain about the House voting to decide the election instead of it being decided by those evil activist judges instead. Good times.
    You are becoming more of a partisan socialist hack every day.

  14. #14
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    Re: Nightmare political scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Beanbag View Post
    You are becoming more of a partisan hack every day.
    This statement is true for nearly every single poster on this board. Except RLIMC. He's already gone as far as one can go.

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    Re: Nightmare political scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Boomerbrad View Post
    Abolishment of the electoral college would not be good for those of us in the Great Plains (I lifted the following from a couple websites):

    Under a system of a strictly popular vote, a candidate would only have to campaign and demagogue to heavily-populated areas such as southern California, Texas, New York, and Florida. Candidates would never need to campaign in states like Delaware, Wyoming, and South Dakota or even Kansas or Oklahoma. Thus, in effect, the country would be run by mob rule, by the citizens of the few, densely-populated areas with similar demographics; it would likely be a system of minority rule despite the intents of those who favor this system.

    To understand the need for the Electoral College, you also have to understand the foundation of the United States in the first place. Notice that the country is named the "United States", not the "United People". Independent sovereign states (nations) once inhabited this land.

    Furthermore, we live in a federation/republic. The best example of this is the U.S. Congress. The Congress is divided into two houses. The House of Representatives was created as a representation of the will of the people, giving each equally populated block of citizens a single representation with equal power. The Senate, on the other hand, which is more powerful, is not a representation of the people, but a representation of the states (state governments, if you will). In the Senate, each state has exactly two representatives, giving EVERY state equal power. The Senate was created to encourage those very small states to enter the Union. Otherwise, it would not be logical for states with tiny populations (relative to the U.S. population) to enter into a true representative Union as they would be relinquishing their own sovereign power over themselves by doing so.
    I disagree given the fundamental nature of a national election of the executive which doesn't exist in any other branch of government. Frankly, I think the founders got in wrong on this front.

    I realize that it isn't likely to happen, but that doesn't stop me from thinking we would benefit from a one vote system. The primary argument is that candidates wouldn't bother with the flyover country, but I think a logical counter argument would be establishing why OH, FL, VA, NM, CO and PA deserve the attention that they get to begin with. Let's not kid ourselves in think that McCain or Obama are going to give much beyond a token visit to states as Oklahoma or California in that both know who is going to win in those without even trying.

    Disbanding the electoral college also comes with some side benefits in terms of face time with candidates. Six of the top ten largest cities in America are landlocked and if anything removing the electoral college forces candidates to appeal to the largest segment of society instead on mapping out why we need to spend $100m in Ohio.

    Lastly, in an abstract sense, America has grown more powerful with democratization of the citizenry. I guess you could make the argument that we have done this in spite of democratic government, but I feel that we already have a check in place through the Senate and Supreme Court to ensure against mob rule. We abandoned the framers intent for representative districts long ago, so why still use the system to choose an executive?
    Boomer Sooner

  16. #16
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member tommieharris91's Avatar
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    Re: Nightmare political scenario

    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    This statement is true for nearly every single poster on this board. Except RLIMC. He's already gone as far as one can go.
    I'm scaring myself with my McCain liking.
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  17. #17
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    Re: Nightmare political scenario

    An amendment is the only thing that can end the electoral college. Call it quaint, narrow-minded, whatever, not even the Supreme Court can take it down.

    If the above happens, forget any "mandate". But then, the following JFK quote comes to mind. He was asked about the lack of a mandate after his close win over Nixon in '60. His response:

    "Mandate, schmandate, I won, he didn't!"

  18. #18

    Re: Nightmare political scenario

    It needs to be abolished. The argument that it was in the original Constitution does not make it right or that it's written in stone. The only way to abolish it is with an amendment, which is difficult but not impossible. That's why the framers put in a process by which it can be amended by 2/3 of Congress and 3/4 of the states.

    It's been done before-- 15th - government can't deny the vote to a person based on color (minority suffrage); 17th - popular election of Senators; 19th - government can't deny the vote to a person based on gender (women's suffrage); 24th - no poll tax; 26th - 18 year olds can vote -- and can be done again to correct the electoral college error.

  19. #19
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Harry Beanbag's Avatar
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    Re: Nightmare political scenario

    I think it's cute how the libs are all against the Electoral College now. Hilarious.

  20. #20

    Re: Nightmare political scenario

    I've always been against it. The responsibility of electing the president should rest directly on the shoulders of the American people. We fight wars as a nation, pay taxes as a nation, we can elect a president by popular vote.

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