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Thread: Iran and Israel

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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Sooner_Havok's Avatar
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    Iran and Israel

    I was listening to the BBC last night on my way home and they were interviewing a professor from Israel. The interviewer asked him if he was worried about Iran getting nuclear weapons and the guy said no. Shocked, the BBC guy asked why, and the professor's answer really made me think, and I wanted to get your thoughts on this.

    Basically the guy said we should go ahead and give Iran nukes. He said once they had them, they wouldn't be able to "throw as much as a match" at Israel. If they did, the Israeli government would have no clue whether or not the incoming missile was a nuke or not, and would have only 10 minutes to counter attack. Not knowing if they were about to be hit with a nuke, Israel would then launch their arsenal at Iran. As they guy put it, "Israel has the capability of completely leveling Iran, and if the Iranians didn't want to see their 5,000 year old civilization wiped of the face of the map, they wouldn't launch anything towards Israel." But he said that only worked if Iran had known nukes. Otherwise, Israel would only be able to launch a conventional counterattack.

    So what do you think? Would nuclear Iran actually stabilize the area?
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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member sooner_born_1960's Avatar
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    Re: Iran and Israel

    One way or the other.
    Real Name: Mark

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    .............. OUDoc's Avatar
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    Re: Iran and Israel

    The Israeli's really have a different way of looking at things, don't they? He makes sense, although militant Islam hasn't, at times, shown much common sense in what or whom they attack.

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    Re: Iran and Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Sooner_Havok View Post
    He said once they had them, they wouldn't be able to "throw as much as a match" at Israel. If they did, the Israeli government would have no clue whether or not the incoming missile was a nuke or not, and would have only 10 minutes to counter attack. Not knowing if they were about to be hit with a nuke, Israel would then launch their arsenal at Iran.
    The way it stands now, do you think Israel would take the chance that it's probably not a nuke? Or that they'd simply sit back and take one for the team even if they knew it wasn't?

    Does Israel have ballistic missiles capable of reaching Iran? It's not much of a secret that they have nuclear weapons, but it's my understanding that they are all aircraft-launched weapons. If that's true, the "10 minutes" argument is out the window.


    As they guy put it, "Israel has the capability of completely leveling Iran, and if the Iranians didn't want to see their 5,000 year old civilization wiped of the face of the map, they wouldn't launch anything towards Israel."
    By Iranians we're taking about the ayatollahs that run the place. Ahmadenidjadadajad is a talking head, and the average Iranian citizen is a lot more rational and pro-Western than a lot of people give them credit for. But how rational are the ayatollahs? Again, probably more rational than a lot of people give them credit for. The only world leader who I think is genuinely bat**** insane is Kim Jong Il, and even he seems sane enough to back away from the nuclear ledge.
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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Sooner_Havok's Avatar
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    Re: Iran and Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by mdklatt View Post
    The way it stands now, do you think Israel would take the chance that it's probably not a nuke? Or that they'd simply sit back and take one for the team even if they knew it wasn't?
    No, I think they would launch everything they have at Tehran, and I think Tehran knows that too


    Quote Originally Posted by mdklatt View Post
    Does Israel have ballistic missiles capable of reaching Iran? It's not much of a secret that they have nuclear weapons, but it's my understanding that they are all aircraft-launched weapons. If that's true, the "10 minutes" argument is out the window.
    One would think they would have missiles capable of hitting Iran


    Quote Originally Posted by mdklatt View Post
    By Iranians we're taking about the ayatollahs that run the place. Ahmadenidjadadajad is a talking head, and the average Iranian citizen is a lot more rational and pro-Western than a lot of people give them credit for. But how rational are the ayatollahs? Again, probably more rational than a lot of people give them credit for. The only world leader who I think is genuinely bat**** insane is Kim Jong Il, and even he seems sane enough to back away from the nuclear ledge.
    I agree most Iranians are pretty reasonable, so imagine their response if they knew that any aggression towards Israel would lead to their deaths. I don't think they would let the lunatics stay in power then.
    If I am right, then religious fundamentalists will not go to Heaven, because there is no Heaven. If THEY are right, then they will not go to Heaven, because they are hypocrites.


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    Re: Iran and Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Sooner_Havok View Post
    No, I think they would launch everything they have at Tehran, and I think Tehran knows that too
    Then we don't need to give Iran nukes. I'm pretty sure that Israel's neighbors all know that if you even look at them funny they'll give you the orbital penetration of a lifetime.


    I agree most Iranians are pretty reasonable, so imagine their response if they knew that any aggression towards Israel would lead to their deaths. I don't think they would let the lunatics stay in power then.
    How exactly does the Iranian government work? I know they're sort of a theocratic democracy, but the theocratic part is the ultimate authority, and I don't know how they come to power. The dude elected before Ahmajadanijadad was seen as a pro-Western reformer. So, did the ayatollahs get scared and use their influence to get Ahmadadanajad elected, or did Bush's "Axis of Evil" rhetoric galvanize the Iranians?
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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Sooner_Havok's Avatar
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    Re: Iran and Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by mdklatt View Post
    Then we don't need to give Iran nukes. I'm pretty sure that Israel's neighbors all know that if you even look at them funny they'll give you the orbital penetration of a lifetime.
    But it only works if Israel can say they thought they were about to be hit with nukes. If a non-nuclear state launches an attack against Israel, they couldn't respond with nuclear force.


    Quote Originally Posted by mdklatt View Post
    How exactly does the Iranian government work? I know they're sort of a theocratic democracy, but the theocratic part is the ultimate authority, and I don't know how they come to power. The dude elected before Ahmajadanijadad was seen as a pro-Western reformer. So, did the ayatollahs get scared and use their influence to get Ahmadadanajad elected, or did Bush's "Axis of Evil" rhetoric galvanize the Iranians?
    I am not sure of their current system, but I am pretty sure that if the people get upset enough, they could overthrow the government.
    If I am right, then religious fundamentalists will not go to Heaven, because there is no Heaven. If THEY are right, then they will not go to Heaven, because they are hypocrites.


    -Isaac Asimov

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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member tommieharris91's Avatar
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    Re: Iran and Israel

    Sure, Israel can attack Iran with nukes and turn their country into a mirror, but then the US loses out on all of that oil that they have.

    C'mon guys, think selfishly for once.
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    Re: Iran and Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Sooner_Havok View Post
    If a non-nuclear state launches an attack against Israel, they couldn't respond with nuclear force.
    It's pretty clear that Israel doesn't have much use for world opinion. Besides, if Iran attacks Israel, it's not just going to be Israel that they have to worry about. Israel gets into a scuffle with Syria? Domestic dispute. Iran gets involved? WW III, or at least Oil War III.



    I am not sure of their current system, but I am pretty sure that if the people get upset enough, they could overthrow the government.
    Iran would have been a much better candidate for whatever we're trying to do in Iraq because their general population is much more homogeneous and secular. I don't know how difficult it would be for them to overthrow the theocracy, though. It wasn't very difficult for them to overthrow the Shah....
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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member OKC-SLC's Avatar
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    Re: Iran and Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by OUDoc View Post
    militant Islam hasn't, at times, shown much common sense in what or whom they attack.
    "At times"

    Heh.

    Unless by "at times" you mean "ever".

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    Re: Iran and Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by OKC-SLC View Post
    "At times"

    Heh.

    Unless by "at times" you mean "ever".
    I was being diplomatic.

  12. #12
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Sooner_Havok's Avatar
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    Re: Iran and Israel

    Hey, if they all want to meet up with Allah quicker, more power to them. You guys ever read the Watchmen? Replace New York City with Jerusalem, and maybe we can get some peace finally.
    If I am right, then religious fundamentalists will not go to Heaven, because there is no Heaven. If THEY are right, then they will not go to Heaven, because they are hypocrites.


    -Isaac Asimov

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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Jerk's Avatar
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    Re: Iran and Israel

    Israel can launch nuclear tipped cruise missiles from diesel subs, which are very quiet. The Persians would be obliterated.
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
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    Re: Iran and Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk View Post
    Israel can launch nuclear tipped cruise missiles from diesel subs, which are very quiet.
    The probably couldn't reach Iran from the Mediterranean Sea. So unless they have some operating in the Persian Gulf (which is very possible), it wouldn't be a WarGames-type MAD scenario.
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  15. #15
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Sooner_Havok's Avatar
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    Re: Iran and Israel

    At any rate, MAD kept us and the Ruskies from going to war for real.
    If I am right, then religious fundamentalists will not go to Heaven, because there is no Heaven. If THEY are right, then they will not go to Heaven, because they are hypocrites.


    -Isaac Asimov

  16. #16
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    Re: Iran and Israel

    Okay, so Israel definitely does have ballistic missiles, probably with nuclear warheads. And what an ominous name.
    I'm not happy until you're not happy.

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    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Jerk's Avatar
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    Re: Iran and Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by mdklatt View Post
    The probably couldn't reach Iran from the Mediterranean Sea. So unless they have some operating in the Persian Gulf (which is very possible), it wouldn't be a WarGames-type MAD scenario.

    Oh.....they probably have a few lurking around there somewhere.

    Even if they couldn't deliver em' by missile, they could send em by air. Book it.
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
    - Fred Bastiat

  18. #18
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    Re: Iran and Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk View Post
    Even if they couldn't deliver em' by missile, they could send em by air. Book it.
    That would involve flying over Iraq and Jordan, same as cruise missiles from the Med. Even if they could pull it off tactically, said countries couldn't just give that a pass, no matter how pro-Israel (by Arab standards) they are.

    Or could they? Who does Iraq hate more--Israel or Iran? If Israel used Iraqi airspace to launch an attack on Iran, would Iraq be compelled to enact vengeance on Israel on behalf of their Muslim brothers? What would/could/should the US do about that situation?
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    I'm a shootist Curly Bill's Avatar
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    Re: Iran and Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by mdklatt View Post
    If Israel used Iraqi airspace to launch an attack on Iran, would Iraq be compelled to enact vengeance on Israel on behalf of their Muslim brothers? What would/could/should the US do about that situation?
    We're gonna stand up for Israel whatever happens over there. We may scold them in private, maybe even in public on occasion, but when it gets down to it we're gonna have their back.
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  20. #20
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    Re: Iran and Israel

    This guy has put a lot of thought in this, and more than two years ago at that.

    EDIT: Update from last month.
    I'm not happy until you're not happy.

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