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  1. #1
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Okla-homey's Avatar
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    Messianic musings...

    I've lately been enthralled by the fervor of BHO supporters. It seems, as many pundits and political commentators have observed; folks are displaying swooning and almost "cult-ish" commitment to the man and his message of "change," "hope," and the notion that government exists to provide the things people need and/or desperately want.

    As a result, it occurs to me this election could become a referendum of sorts in terms of redefining government's proper role in our lives. Put another way, whether "ask not what your country can do for you, but rather, ask what you can do for your country" as articulated by JFK in 1960 remains the ideal, or if it will be replaced by the notion government is obligated, like a benevolent father, to give people things need but don't have. It must be said, this is indeed the normative paradigm in the world, with the heretofore notable exception of the United States.

    Moreover, I'm struck by the notion so many of BHO's supporters are youthful and/or disadvantaged, thus this might explain why his message resonates so strongly with them.

    To wit, because so many grew up fatherless and/or in want, with no practical alternative to getting the things they want or need other than hard work...and hard work is, well, hard, BHO represents that benevolent messianic figure who can immediately bridge the chasm between the "have nots" and the things they want.

    Unconcerned with the practicalities, it seems to me at least, many believe BHO, like Santa, Christ, or Daddy Warbucks, will somehow make manifest the visions of sugar plums dancing in their heads.

    What say the assembled lumaniti in this grand salon we call the SO?

    Last edited by Okla-homey; 2/23/2008 at 01:11 PM.
    "Discourage litigation. Persuade your neighbors to compromise whenever they can. Point out to them how the nominal winner is often a real loser; in fees, expenses and waste of time." -- Abraham Lincoln, (1809-1865) Lawyer and President who saved the United States.

    "Without opportunities on the part of the poor to obtain expert legal advice, it is idle to talk of equality before the law"-- Justice Chas. Evans Hughes

  2. #2
    Soon to be Memphibian

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    Re: Messianic musings...

    I think you've missed the fact that Obama's main support in the Democratic party came from the affluent. Clinton was the one who was drawing the most support for the lower income strata.
    "The choices we discern as having been made in the Constitutional Convention impose burdens on governmental proceses that often seem clumsy, inefficient, even unworkable, but those hard choices were consciously made by men who had lived under a form of government that permitted arbitrary governmental acts to go unchecked." INS v. Chadha, 462 U.S. 919 (1983) (Burger, C.J.)

  3. #3
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1
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    Re: Messianic musings...

    At this point Obama leads in almost every demo, including the intelligentsia (read: moneyed).

    I think he will have a hard time if he's elected in that there is some major league hype around him, and there has for a while. I think that he is now a cult figure like JFK or Reagan. Despite what many think, this is a very good thing. JFK was in office for 3 years and didn't do much, Reagan sold weapons to sworn enemies of the United States, and yet are remembered fondly. Obama has a chance to be a non-entity and remembered as a giant. None one else in this cycle can claim that.
    Boomer Sooner

  4. #4
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Chuck Bao's Avatar
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    Re: Messianic musings...

    Yeah? Like a president that is articulate and brings hope is far too much to ask? The fact that I'm selfish and lazy is besides the point.

  5. #5
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Turd_Ferguson's Avatar
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    Re: Messianic musings...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Rich
    I think you've missed the fact that Obama's main support in the Democratic party came from the affluent. Clinton was the one who was drawing the most support for the lower income strata.
    Please point me to this info with wich you came.

    OleVet Posse Instigator

  6. #6
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Harry Beanbag's Avatar
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    Re: Messianic musings...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Bao
    Yeah? Like a president that is articulate and brings hope is far too much to ask? The fact that I'm selfish and lazy is besides the point.

    Not that I'm comparing him to Hitler, but ol' Adolf did those things as well. The truth will be shown in his actions, not his pretty words.

  7. #7
    Soon to be Memphibian

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    Re: Messianic musings...

    Will do. Might take me a bit-most of the articles posted after Obama's wins in the Potomac primaries stated that Obama had whittled into or peeled away Clinton's support in low-income demographics.
    "The choices we discern as having been made in the Constitutional Convention impose burdens on governmental proceses that often seem clumsy, inefficient, even unworkable, but those hard choices were consciously made by men who had lived under a form of government that permitted arbitrary governmental acts to go unchecked." INS v. Chadha, 462 U.S. 919 (1983) (Burger, C.J.)

  8. #8
    Stayatworkdad yermom's Avatar
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    Re: Messianic musings...

    i do like the idea of lessening the Good 'ol Boy system. i'm not sure why "change" has to be some socialist idea

    i'd rather see social programs than an Executive branch in bed with companies like Halliburton

  9. #9
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Sooner_Bob's Avatar
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    Re: Messianic musings...

    Wouldn't you think that the Executive Branch is always going to be in bed with some large group or corporation? IMO the lobbyist groups in this country have far too much power to ever let that get away from them.

    But back to Homey's question. I think that for whatever reason people out there have it in their minds that the US was perfect before Dubya got into office. Hate to break to them, but it was far from perfect. I fail to see how these same people can think that McCain, Obama, Mrs. Clinton or Ron Paul for that matter is going to suddenly pull the US back into what they see as the right position within the world political game.

    What exactly has any of them actually done to make folks think that?

    I think Obama appeals to most folks because he's not a 65 year old white guy. They see him as something new and different. Thus they believe that if he's elected POTUS things will suddenly get "better". Whatever that means.

  10. #10
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Harry Beanbag's Avatar
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    Re: Messianic musings...

    Quote Originally Posted by yermom
    i do like the idea of lessening the Good 'ol Boy system. i'm not sure why "change" has to be some socialist idea
    I don't know why it has to be some socialist idea either, but that's how it's currently being sold to us. The kind of "change" I'd like to see is starting over with 535 new Congressmen and Senators.


    Quote Originally Posted by yermom
    i'd rather see social programs than an Executive branch in bed with companies like Halliburton
    I'd like to have neither of those two options.

  11. #11
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member King Crimson's Avatar
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    Re: Messianic musings...

    given the uncritical deification of Reagan by many (including the thread's author, Ronaldus Maximus--Roman Emperor), i note some partisan irony in the original post.

    though, there's no doubt some of the "wild-eyed" Obama people are kinda creepy. the suggestion that there is some psycho-familial reason for Obama's appeal ("growing up fatherless"--thereby the not so veiled implication that people who aren't conservative republicans are defective somehow) is a bit of a stretch......but, when playing the partisan "turn-around" game many Pubs fascination with paternal or "almighty" authority, authoritarian figures, military fiction that glamorizes warfare and American exceptionalism, solving most problems with force or the threat of force etc. might also beg psychological explanation. because that's hardly the image of a complete father figure, present or absent.

    can't have it both ways.

  12. #12
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Harry Beanbag's Avatar
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    Re: Messianic musings...

    Quote Originally Posted by King Crimson
    given the uncritical deification of Reagan by many (including the thread's author, Ronaldus Maximus--Roman Emperor), i note some partisan irony in the original post.

    though, there's no doubt some of the "wild-eyed" Obama people are kinda creepy. the suggestion that there is some psycho-familial reason for Obama's appeal ("growing up fatherless"--thereby the not so veiled implication that people who aren't conservative republicans are defective somehow) is a bit of a stretch......but, when playing the partisan "turn-around" game many Pubs fascination with paternal or "almighty" authority, authoritarian figures, military fiction that glamorizes warfare and American exceptionalism, solving most problems with force or the threat of force etc. might also beg psychological explanation. because that's hardly the image of a complete father figure, present or absent.

    can't have it both ways.

    Other than the obvious that one of them is dead, there are some rather huge distinctions between Reagan's and Obama's political status, career, and accomplishments. No?

  13. #13
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member King Crimson's Avatar
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    Re: Messianic musings...

    that's not really my point HB. psychological or sociological explanation for political choices is more the issue i'm talking about (as pro-offered in the original thread)....not a comparison of political careers.

  14. #14
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member SanJoaquinSooner's Avatar
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    Re: Messianic musings...

    Well, the Democrats haven't been successful when they nominate someone from the left wing of the party- at least since maybe Roosevelt (not sure who was more left wing - Roosevelt or Al Smith).

    But look at the successful donks - Turman, JFK, Johnson, Carter, and Clinton. They all were centrists within the donk party.

  15. #15
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member Harry Beanbag's Avatar
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    Re: Messianic musings...

    Quote Originally Posted by King Crimson
    that's not really my point HB. psychological or sociological explanation for political choices is more the issue i'm talking about (as pro-offered in the original thread)....not a comparison of political careers.

    Oh no doubt. The human mind is a strange and powerful thing. Trying to analyze people's thought processes can only leave you scratching your head.

    I was just saying that at least Reagan actually has something that can be deified if someone was inclined to do so.

  16. #16
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 shaun4411's Avatar
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    Re: Messianic musings...

    ive heard some christians say that obama is the devil. that this is exactly how satan would become empowered. say what we want to hear and talk his way into power. how he is the best liar, and speaker and whatnot.

    so if a billion people suddenly vanish with no warning shortly after obama gets hypathetically sworn in, watch out.
    Last edited by shaun4411; 2/23/2008 at 04:44 PM.
    I'm tired of chasing my dreams. I'm just gonna ask where they're going and catch up with them later.

  17. #17
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member 12's Avatar
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    Re: Messianic musings...

    I don't really have much to say other than that I applaud the eloquence of our own charasmatic, erudite and benevolent Homey.

    Abe should have penned such a post.

  18. #18
    Baylor Ambassador SicEmBaylor's Avatar
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    Re: Messianic musings...

    Quote Originally Posted by Turd_Ferguson
    Please point me to this info with wich you came.
    It's true. Obama leads most demographics now, but his original base of support came from affluent liberals and academia.

  19. #19
    SoonerFans.com Elite Member VeeJay's Avatar
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    Re: Messianic musings...

    Quote Originally Posted by shaun4411
    ive heard some christians say that obama is the devil. that this is exactly how satan would become empowered. say what we want to hear and talk his way into power. how he is the best liar, and speaker and whatnot.

    so if a billion people suddenly vanish with no warning shortly after obama gets hypathetically sworn in, watch out.
    I have yet to receive the requisite e-mail about Obama being the anti-Christ, but I am sure it's coming from my network of esteemed e-mail associates.

    Given this, should I be concerned that when my time comes, I should prepare the answer about who I voted for, for president in 2008?

  20. #20
    Sooner All-Big XII-2-1+1-1+1 shaun4411's Avatar
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    Re: Messianic musings...

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...0125358AA1hRgT

    i dont condone anything people here are saying. just poking fun at the idiocy of some of these loons.
    I'm tired of chasing my dreams. I'm just gonna ask where they're going and catch up with them later.

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