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Replace Kelvin with who?
I have asked this question several times in the last few yeats and have yet to get any real answers.
If we did fire Calvin, who are we realistically going to bring in that will lead us to the PROMISED LAND?Well first lets see who we can elimanate right off the bat.Coach K,Pitino,Tubby Smith, they ain"t coming no matter how much money we throw at them.They are traditional b-ball schools which have no football teams capable of overshadowing them.
Knight,Sutton,Self,Barnes: gimme a break, check their records for the last 11 years ,you will find No gap between these guys and KS,besides which one of them is a lunatic,one is in virtual retirement,the third is overated and last barely matches Kelvin's record( besides which he is a close personal friend of KS.
So tell me who will be our Moses and lead us to the PROMISED LAND?
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
Nobody we keep Kelvin as long as we are fortunate enough to have him....
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soonerus
Nobody we keep Kelvin as long as we are fortunate enough to have him....
Exactly my point.We didn't fire Billy when he had less than stellar teams.Or Bud OR Barry ,so why the witch hunt for Kelvin? I think some people are spoiled and forget Rome was not built in a day.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
Yuo can't argue with his winning percentage, I know that. It's amazing he can get a "Top 5" Class to come to play in an environment more fitting for a funeral. I'm not sure what has to change to get people involved in the program. But, don't we say this every year?
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
Chicken or egg, i'm not sure.
But let's seriously not pretend that watching a team go thru 8 minute FG droughts to score in the 40's is going to get many people in the seats at even a basketball school.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
LNC isn't a great place to play. It's dark, the lighting is bad, and it's not meant for basketball. It's a perfect concert type arena. That being said you can still be loud in there and make it sound great if you just show up and care. I went to the Mizzou game and it was not really empty. I would guess 6k there at the max. For a majority of the game only about 1000 people seemed to even realize a game was going on. I can't believe how our fans just didn't care. You can't have that happen at home games. Especially when you have a winning record and are playing a game that was HUGE for our team.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
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Originally Posted by SoonerJAM
Exactly my point.We didn't fire Billy when he had less than stellar teams.Or Bud OR Barry ,so why the witch hunt for Kelvin? I think some people are spoiled and forget Rome was not built in a day.
Rome did't fall in a day.... either
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by birddogbbq
Yuo can't argue with his winning percentage, I know that. It's amazing he can get a "Top 5" Class to come to play in an environment more fitting for a funeral. I'm not sure what has to change to get people involved in the program. But, don't we say this every year?
Style points would go a long way to increase the crowd. I used to go when Tubbs was here and there was NEVER a crowd problem. High flying, up-tempo offense is exciting. Kelvin's style, while ultimately effective is not very fun to watch. I go to about five or six (sam as football) games a year and I always find myself looking at my watch.
To answer the original question, there are quite a few up and coming coaches that would love to come to OU. Heck look at what Barnes has done down at tex and Gillespie at aTm. Those schools have zero basketball tradition like OU.
If Kelvin gets us put on probation, as much as I hate to say it, I think we keep him until sanctions are over and fire him.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoonerJAM
I have asked this question several times in the last few yeats and have yet to get any real answers.
If we did fire Calvin, who are we realistically going to bring in that will lead us to the PROMISED LAND?Well first lets see who we can elimanate right off the bat.Coach K,Pitino,Tubby Smith, they ain"t coming no matter how much money we throw at them.They are traditional b-ball schools which have no football teams capable of overshadowing them.
Knight,Sutton,Self,Barnes: gimme a break, check their records for the last 11 years ,you will find No gap between these guys and KS,besides which one of them is a lunatic,one is in virtual retirement,the third is overated and last barely matches Kelvin's record( besides which he is a close personal friend of KS.
So tell me who will be our Moses and lead us to the PROMISED LAND?
Don't know exactly, but with the kind of money OU has to throw around, there is definitely some head coach at one of the 317 teams playing D1 basketball that would take the job.
Remember, Kelvin wasn't on anyone's radar when we found him at Wazzu.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
If the OU job was open the list would be very long....... If we are willing to commit to paying well! How about one of the 10 assistants at Duke?
John Beilein
Head Coach is one name..
Again if the job were open- I believe a list of 20 top notch and up and coming coaches could be fielded for interviews.
I would much rather Sampson just realizes he needs to step up the Tempo on Offense and Press a little- run a little- we are to one dimensional.....
No Transition game...
Comparing Kansas to OU is fine as well- if I had a choice- I would not think twice about Roy williams style of play over Sampsons.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
Kelvin will run a little when his teams play D. Hell he's trying to get them to run right now. Problem is we are making too many mistakes on defense to allow for any transition game. No one is going to have a Tubbs like transition game anymore. It just doesn't work because you can't be that good on defense if you want to do exactly what Tubbs did and without defense it just wouldn't work.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
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Originally Posted by NickZeppelin
Kelvin will run a little when his teams play D. Hell he's trying to get them to run right now. Problem is we are making too many mistakes on defense to allow for any transition game. No one is going to have a Tubbs like transition game anymore. It just doesn't work because you can't be that good on defense if you want to do exactly what Tubbs did and without defense it just wouldn't work.
Did you watch North Carolina last year? How about Kansas for several years-
I did not see A&M lighting it up and yet did we get any transition baskets..
Have you watched Ill and how they pass? We need a new scheme on offense. our players are capable of having a good year still- 11 minutes w/o a field goal in one game is fine- but several- please outlet pass push the ball get fouled something...
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
Those teams averaged about 80 a game or around there. UNC average I think 82 a game last year. I'll look up the KU teams in the 90's and early 2000s but it was probably about 80. How many times on defense do we force a fast break off a steal? I bet it's a very low amount and probably the lowest Sampson has had. The game is so much more physical now you can't have a Tubbs like offense even he pretty much admitted that in his interview in the paper today.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickZeppelin
Kelvin will run a little when his teams play D. Hell he's trying to get them to run right now. Problem is we are making too many mistakes on defense to allow for any transition game. No one is going to have a Tubbs like transition game anymore. It just doesn't work because you can't be that good on defense if you want to do exactly what Tubbs did and without defense it just wouldn't work.
If Kelvin hadn't run off two of the three best guards since Hollis Price after last season these problems wouldn't be happening. How bad do we need Drew Lavender to change the the tempo of the game now?
I love Kelvin but if the NCAA investigation results in probation, I'm done with watching his brand of ball. Meaning, I held my nose because he was a winner and a man of character. Without the latter, I can't do the former anymore.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
Isn't winning the bottom line?
Kelvin Sampson at OU
Overall record 259-100 in 11 seasons
(.721 winning pct. Best in OU history)
1 Big 12 regular season title
3 Big 12 Tourney titles
NCAA Tourney Appearances 10
NCAA Tourney record 11-10
1 Final Four
1 Elite Eight
1 Sweet 16s
Billy Tubbs at OU
Overall record 333-132 in 14 seasons
(.716 winning pct. 2nd to Sampson's)
4 Big Eight regular season titles
3 Big Eight Tourney titles
NCAA Tourney Appearances 9
NCAA record 15-9
1 Final Four
1 Elite Eight
2 Sweet 16s
I attended OU when Tubbs was the man and I was a Tubbs fan. But by and large, the Sooners significantly underachieved in the NCAA Tournament under Tubbs' direction. Four times they went into the Dance as a No. 1 season, yet advanced to only one Final Four.
People will say look at what Sampson's teams did at the Dance his first four seasons at OU — losing in the first round each time. True enough. But remember this — OU didn't even earn an NCAA berth during three of the four seasons before Sampson took over for Tubbs. OU's reputation as a basketball power had fallen off the map.
If it's a matter of looking pretty then you are probably going to have a hard time ever liking Sampson's style. It's all about playing hard, being physical and doing whatever it takes to win. The new crop of players coming in next season promises to deliver a more up-tempo style, but it's never going to be anything like Billy Ball.
But you can count on one thing for certain — it will be a winning style.
And if you think because Kelvin made a mistake he is no longer a man of good character, well, that's where you are dead wrong. Good men, good people make mistakes they regret quite often. That doesn't excuse his bad judgement, but one mistake like this does not define a man or a coach.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
No winning isn't the bottom line. The games are not entertaining to watch and If he's been breaking the rules then he should be gone. Same for any other coach at OU.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
People will say look at what Sampson's teams did at the Dance his first four seasons at OU — losing in the first round each time. True enough. But remember this — OU didn't even earn an NCAA berth during three of the four seasons before Sampson took over for Tubbs. OU's reputation as a basketball power had fallen off the map.
If it's a matter of looking pretty then you are probably going to have a hard time ever liking Sampson's style. It's all about playing hard, being physical and doing whatever it takes to win. The new crop of players coming in next season promises to deliver a more up-tempo style, but it's never going to be anything like Billy Ball.
But you can count on one thing for certain — it will be a winning style.[/QUOTE]
I rather feel like we have a chance to win it all rather than no for a fact we can't.. I would also take the extra million a year in revenue from fans and consessions to upgrade the LNC...
The Student Section should be on the court or behind each basket- let's fix it- what the hell..
Anyone talking about how in the hell did Notre Dame fire so an so now?
With the current state of the Big 12 - you can loose every big game and still have a 70% winning percentage - Coppin St, Southern, what else crap teams have we beat this year SMU.
Rock on Kelvin- let's pad those stats! 8 of our wins were gimmies this year thus far....
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
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Originally Posted by Jay C. Upchurch
And if you think because Kelvin made a mistake he is no longer a man of good character, well, that's where you are dead wrong. Good men, good people make mistakes they regret quite often. That doesn't excuse his bad judgement, but one mistake like this does not define a man or a coach.
One mistake? He made over two HUNDRED illegal calls over a few years. Sounds like more than one mistake. The bottom line for me is if we get embarassed by probation then he should pay the price not the fans.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
mojo, you have a short/selective memory if you don't think Billy played cupcakes OOC too.
i'm as big a fan of Tubbs (and i'd put the number of home games i went to during his tenure up against most--the whole tenure, not just 4 years) as anyone here but it's intellectually lazy and sometimes flat dishonest to pretend Billy never lost a game and we sold out everygame and played UNLV or Georgia Tech each time we laced em up non-conference to make some rhetorical strawman out of Kelvin.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
If you have read what I posted TUbbs didn't even come up accept that I rather feel like we have a chance to win it all rather than know we can't play with the big boys.
I am talking about a more up tempo D and O, new O Schemes better attendance etc...
Nick- North Carolna averaged 88 points last year and Williams avg over 80 17years straight...
I am not talking Billy Ball today.
I simply stated that it would be a long list wanting the OU job if we are willing to Pay.... Don't kid yourself on that- and don't bring up Tubbs again to dispute it!
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
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Originally Posted by Big Red Ron
I used to go when Tubbs was here and there was NEVER a crowd problem.
Official OU Men's Basketball Attendance figures, pg. 182 of the Media Guide:
1980-81: 4,695
1981-82: 7,250
1982-83: 10,084
1983-84: 10,073
1984-85: 11,070
1985-86: 10,004
1986-87: 8,332
1987-88: 9,281
1988-89: 9,903
1989-90: 10,499
1990-91: 10,159
1991-92: 7,500
1992-93: 7,724
1993-94: 7,680
ETA:per request:
1994-95: 8,718
1995-96: 9,282
1996-97: 9,420
1997-98: 9,226
1998-99: 10,248
1999-00: 11,248
2000-01: 10,324
2001-02: 10,416
2002-03: 11,266
2003-04: 12,002
2004-05: 11,571
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
Sherri Coale. Maybe she could coach both teams!
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
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Originally Posted by MikeInNorman
Official OU Men's Basketball Attendance figures, pg. 184 of the Media Guide:
1980-81: 4,695
1981-82: 7,250
1982-83: 10,084
1983-84: 10,073
1984-85: 11,070
1985-86: 10,004
1986-87: 8,332
1987-88: 9,281
1988-89: 9,903
1989-90: 10,499
1990-91: 10,159
1991-92: 7,500
1992-93: 7,724
1993-94: 7,680
Those are useful stats- I am also willing to bet there were 8 more regular home games a year then as well.
What are the stats from 94-2006? and we can put this to rest.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
Quote:
How bad do we need Drew Lavender to change the the tempo of the game now?
'
Not very much because he wasn't a point guard and he was an average 3 point shooter. McKenzie we could have used this year.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
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Originally Posted by MojoRisen
Those are useful stats- I am also willing to bet there were 8 more regular home games a year then as well.
What are the stats from 94-2006? and we can put this to rest.
that is interesting, thanks MIke. what difference would more games mean if it was an average?
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
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Originally Posted by King Crimson
that is interesting, thanks MIke. what difference would more games mean if it was an average?
Figure more cup cakes - it is harder to keep an average up with more games- it also means 70K more fans came out annually and close to 2 million in revenue for the BBALL program.
I am guessing it wouldn't change the avg very much unless it were all cup cakes and low attendance for those extra games.
Anyone have the stats from 94 to present?
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoRisen
Anyone have the stats from 94 to present?
i wouldn't see why those wouldn't be in a media guide as well. i've got one from 2002....but i'm far too lazy to look for it right now.
kinda surprised that the 88 team is only teh 8th ranked in terms of attendence in Tubbs' years--the four year spike in the early 80's i assume is the 3 year Tisdale factor...and legitimately OU becoming a real national basketball....to the point that at least they talked about us some on ESPN's big east coverage (usually negatively). and those were great years with DJ/CHoo/Mccallister etc. those years were really a lot of fun.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
I ran the stats on Google- It looks like Kelvin has averaged over 11K a game since 2000- so this trend is only since the Mizzou game...
It said the other home games this year were all 10-11K attendance- so someone please tell me if that isn't correct? and we are only biatching about the Mizou game.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
In response to Big Red Ron's quote...
"The bottom line for me is if we get embarassed by probation then he should pay the price not the fans."
OU is already "embarrassed" by its lack of fan support in basketball. Why should the fans who aren't showing up for games get any consideration when it comes to those kinds of decisions?
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
OU averages between 10,000 and 11,000 in ticket sales for every game, and has for a while.
The problem is getting half of those buying tickets to show up and cheer.
Too many absentee fans.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
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Originally Posted by Jay C. Upchurch
OU averages between 10,000 and 11,000 in ticket sales for every game, and has for a while.
The problem is getting half of those buying tickets to show up and cheer.
Too many absentee fans.
...and that's the problem, right there. I guess people who have held football season tickets buy basketball tickets for points, not for wanting to go to any non-Aggy or Whorn games, and those that do go to the games because they spent their money on it don't cheer or do anything. Sure, it doesn't help that we aren't exactly BillyBalling it, but screw ticket sales, we just need people in the seats. I think if we readjusted/did away with the points system that we could get some real fans in the seats.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay C. Upchurch
OU averages between 10,000 and 11,000 in ticket sales for every game, and has for a while.
The problem is getting half of those buying tickets to show up and cheer.
Too many absentee fans.
Jay, now you are using selective logic. The reason why people don't come while the sold attendence numbers are inlfated is because the BBall tix are are tied to the Football season package and remember we all think Kelvin's brand of ball is no fun to watch. Something has to give and apparently the fans have spoken by their actions.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
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Originally Posted by NickZeppelin
'
Not very much because he wasn't a point guard and he was an average 3 point shooter. McKenzie we could have used this year.
You are such a frickin nimrod. Have you ever played a sport that didn't include a TV or a skin flute?
Drew Lavender is/was the best point guard on our team last year. Everett was a nice option when other teams put a big guard on Drew but otherwise, Drew was a PG made to push the ball in an upbeat tempo game plan (probably why he left). DL would have been a perfect guard in Billy Ball. McKenzie was a three point specialist but not so good on defense and was less of a PG than DL or TE.
Also, Drew is/was a better three point shooter than anyone on our team this year!
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
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Originally Posted by Big Red Ron
You are such a frickin nimrod. Have you ever played a sport that didn't include a TV or a skin flute?
Drew Lavender is/was the best point guard on our team last year. Everett was a nice option when other teams put a big guard on Drew but otherwise, Drew was a PG made to push the ball in an upbeat tempo game plan (probably why he left). DL would have been a perfect guard in Billy Ball. McKenzie was a three point specialist but not so good on defense and was less of a PG than DL or TE.
Also, Drew is/was a better three point shooter than anyone on our team this year!
I would like to know the last high school All-American that entered this program and stayed four years. Methinks it's Hollis Price, and none other in Kelvin's tenure. Could it be that reality inside the program is different than perception from the outside?
Two questions for answer. No affect on positive vibe intended.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
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Originally Posted by CtheB
I would like to know the last high school All-American that entered this program and stayed four years. Methinks it's Hollis Price, and none other in Kelvin's tenure. Could it be that reality inside the program is different than perception from the outside?
Two questions for answer. No affect on positive vibe intended.
We haven't had one. Ryan Humphrey transferred, Drew Lavender transferred. We haven't had any others, I believe.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
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Originally Posted by PrideTrombone
We haven't had one. Ryan Humphrey transferred, Drew Lavender transferred. We haven't had any others, I believe.
You are correct sir. Hollis was a gift and we were blessed to have him here but he was not an all american HS player. Another reason why it is so sad to see Kelvin and his team impload.
Wait wasn't Drew's teamate in HS (who came here and also transfered) a McD's All-American?
So there's three and they all left.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
Lavender didn't even play most of the last few games of last year when Godbold was inserted into the lineup after the KSU game.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
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Originally Posted by NickZeppelin
Lavender didn't even play most of the last few games of last year when Godbold was inserted into the lineup after the KSU game.
Yeah and we were much better after that too. :rolleyes:
He was already crossways with Kelvin for off-the-court issues by then. Drew probably told Kelvin that his offense was lamer than his High school team's.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
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Originally Posted by Big Red Ron
You are correct sir. Hollis was a gift and we were blessed to have him here but he was not an all american HS player. Another reason why it is so sad to see Kelvin and his team impload.
Wait wasn't Drew's teamate in HS (who came here and also transfered) a McD's All-American?
So there's three and they all left.
Foust? Nah, don't think he was.
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Re: Replace Kelvin with who?
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Originally Posted by PrideTrombone
Foust? Nah, don't think he was.
I watched Foust play with Lavender in the McD's All American game. I remember that game clearly as yesterday because I kept getting confused about which of the two "little PG's" was ours. Unfortunately, I kept thinking this other little guy (who was MUCH better than Drew was ours) was Drew. Turns out that other guy was Chris Paul.