How can you be pro-life and for the death penalty at the same time?

You have the right to find sides distasteful, but only one side is actually ending human lives. Scientifically the egg and sperm are both human, once conception happens, those two not discontinue to be human. They come from humans after all. I think you mean person hood. You do not know when a human life deserves person hood. Scientifically, when conception occurs, everything about that future person has been determined genotype wise and phenotype wise. I mean, at conception it has been determined if the person will have blue eyes, black hair, or be short or tall, black or white.

This issue has nothing to do with choice vs mandate not to kill babies. I think pro-abortion people know there is a difference between allowing women to vote, and stopping them from ending human life. It has all to do with overthrowing what is seen as a religious burden, or a religious chore. It is the everlasting escape from God. It is the secular anthem cry that in order to distance ourselves with God, we must even give in the absurdity of being pro-abortion. To be pro-abortion is utterly absurd.

In India where abortion is legal, they are aborting baby girls by a rate 1:10 compared to baby boys. Check the facts. Now, if this is what the pro-abortion, pro-woman world looks like, then may God have mercy on our souls come judgement day.

 

Good thing you have nothing to say about it.

 

You're right. I should have been using the term "religious morality" in place of just "morality" since all laws are an attempt to force some kind of morality into society. The Bill of Rights forces us to adhere to morality unencumbered by religious or political bias. That is what makes it fantastic. It is rational morality that works for everyone regardless of their race, creed, or color and allows us to work together toward a common goal: society as free as possible from government interference that forces us to conform to the religious, political, cultural, etc. values of others.

That being said, there is still no logical morality in placing the rights of a potential human over the rights of the existing human that could produce it in all but the most extreme circumstances. It doesn't make any rational sense. You trying to confuse the issue by saying that some choices (clothes, workplace) are fine to leave to individuals, but others choices are not (babies) and I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

 

Reason cannot be the creator of morality. Reason is a tool to validate morality, or to oppose it. Do you think that the NAZIs were being unreasonable when they destroyed other races? Or do you think they were being immoral? Did they violate reason when they killed other people, or did they violate morality? Did they have the right to choose to kill people or did they not because it was morally wrong?
A NAZI would say: we followed reason; we needed resources and we took them to feed our people. It was our choice and the reasonable thing to do.



The acts of NAZI Germany become wrong when one claims that morality, or objective morality is a-priori, and a-priori objective morality universal morality found in the bill of rights, comes only come from God. For morality to be universal, true for everyone, it has to unencumbered by racial bias, secular bias, naturalistic bias, or else Nietzsche was right that if you claim God to be dead, then objective morality, The Bill of Rights, is simply non-sense.

Only the morality of the strongest survives in a world devoid of God.

The last part of your post is confusing because you hurried to reply without getting the jest of what I was saying. I type this knowing fully well, that whatever fact of reason I may present you will reject because smart people can argue anything they want.

 

An egg and sperm are not humans. They are a seed and fertilizer that could possibly combine to gestate into a human, given the right conditions. There are a lot of things that can happen before, during, and after conception that can prevent them from forming into a human without including abortion. What about the billions of sperm and eggs that never become babies. Are those constitutionally protected as well?

The argument has everything to do with dominion over your own body. Not just for women but for men as well because as soon as we legislate against freedom of choice for one sex, it opens the door for legislation against the other sex as well.

As for the rest of your argument that is wholly founded in religion and fear of God, I've covered that. It is awesome that you have faith and believe as you do, but that isn't what everyone believes and forcing your religious belief system on others shouldn't be allowed at all in this country.

 

Dude. Really? The rest of the fetus is in bits and pieces from being chopped up and sucked out. Sheez.

 

Really? You are going to claim that it was rationally moral to commit genocide in the 1930s and 1940s? If so, I'll choose to bow out as well.

 

Are you tolling us? What?

A human egg is not human? Human sperm is not human? Gestate into a human given the right condition? What? They are human regardless if the pregnancy continues or not. I've got some shocking news for you: even you a grown human being, depend on the right conditions to survive. You are a buffered solution, that a slight change in pH of your bodily fluid would suffocate you in seconds. Every human life depends on the right conditions. Even now as an independent adult you depend on the rest of us, called society, in order to survive.

 

Really? How do we know that? We can't possibly know from what he posted. His picture was meant to make you assume exactly that.

 

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

I'm fairly sure you are the one trolling.

Saying an egg and sperm are humans is like saying all apple seeds are apple trees. I didn't say they weren't human genetic material, I said they weren't humans.

 

Ignorance and stupidity are being displayed in your post!

 

Are human genes human? You confuse the term human, with human being, which implies person-hood. I'm sure you have heard the term: we found human remains in the crash site. They mean they found stuff from a human being, they don't mean they found a person there.

Human DNA is human, but it is not a human being. An unborn child, after 7 weeks, has all the traits of a human being.

 

I see what you mean now that you clarify. There is a reason they say "human remains" though and not just "humans".

Also, I'd like to know where you got your information concerning 7 week fetuses having all the traits of a fully formed person. Is that just external physical traits?

 

Psychobabble, probably taken from left wing talking points!
Pro-choice is actually "Pro-Death"!
Choice??? Yes - the "choice to take another human life" for convenience!

"Social Contract"????!!!!
Where might I find that teaching???? The Bible? The Constitution???
...maybe the Church of Social Justice"???
:dispirited:

 

Thanks Phil!
A picture is worth a thousand words!
Sometimes even a good cartoon is too....:tennis:

 

SoonerBal...
And you are making an argument on simple human logic only; without morals or an unformed conscience.

 

From the medical perspective, once the sperm fertilizes the egg, and cell diiivision starts.....the DNA is unique!

Too bad Obama is forcing his morals on us Catholics.
:dispirited:

 

Look I am passionate about this issue. But that passion doesn't cloud my reason, only my tact. It doesn't matter what I say, what facts I present. You will not change your position. I follow the Anthony Flew logic: I will follow the evidence wherever it leads. That's why I used to be an atheist, and come from a family of atheists.

We, anti-abortion people, do not want to enslave, diminish, devalue women, and we think that human life is worth preserving. Human life should not be seen as an inconvenience, to be ended when it pleases us. 95% of abortions are performed because the mother can't afford the baby. That is just plain wrong.

More than 50 million babies are aborted since 1973. Twice as much as the current population of the Netherlands. How can anyone be pro-abortion?

 

There is no shortage of opinions.