Reasons why the big 12 succs....

[CORNholio]

1st off I blame the horrendous coaches in this league who for the most part are D1 incompetent. With the exception of Leach and Stoops I dont see one single quality proven coach. What happened to all the Osbournes and Snyders?

2ndly it seems as though there has been a drop off in talent. Not so much in the south but with Colo's and the Neb's of the conference. What happened?
I dont understand in particular why Nebbish cant recruit the midwest (chicago-area better) Its like every one is fighting over the same recruits in Tejas, and of course the more distant north continually loses that fight. The Big10 thrives on the midwest recruits, Nebbish should be able to pull from there but they don't really.

Solution: dont really see one happening.
Just MHO

[Crucifax Autumn]

Most importantly, they saw what OU is doing and became demoralized with the knowledge that there's no way in hell any of them can even wake up from a dream about winning the Big 12.

[Octavian]

With the exception of Leach and Stoops I dont see one single quality proven coach.


Mack is 96-22 with a national championship crystal ball. That's more than proven.


That's an elite program.



As to why the Big XII sucks...well, there's only so much awesomeness to go around....and Bobby and Oklahoma take up most of it.

[KantoSooner]

If Nebraska still had a name, it would be easier,but you're talking about recruiting 17 and 18-year-olds. "History" and "Tradition" to them is largely all about the last 5-8 years. And Nebs has not dominated the airwaves during that time.
Secondly, Lincoln is not doing them any favors, nor is the Univ. Lincoln is not a bad place, but who ever cited it as a holiday destination? (as in: 'Honey, I'm bored, can we go to Lincoln for the weekend?' - these words have never been spoken.)(I love Norman, but it's only just barely above a negative for big city kids. Lincoln? Lincoln is like living in purgatory for them.) And UN is not exactly a magnet campus for high acheivers.

The only way they are going to come back is to find the right coach, pay him a sh*t pot of money and provide a blank check book to go get assistants and then recruit on the grounds that whoever comes will get playing time: NOW.

If they pick the right guy, and have the balls to stay out of his way, they have a chance to come back.

Otherwise it could be a long 25-30 years before we see the Huskers Du anything at all.

My opinion and I'm kind of sad about it.

[CORNholio]

Mack is 96-22 with a national championship crystal ball. That's more than proven.


That's an elite program.



As to why the Big XII sucks...well, there's only so much awesomeness to go around....and Bobby and Oklahoma take up most of it.

Yeah thought about the Mackster. Guess he probably belongs in there too.

[CORNholio]

If Nebraska still had a name, it would be easier,but you're talking about recruiting 17 and 18-year-olds. "History" and "Tradition" to them is largely all about the last 5-8 years. And Nebs has not dominated the airwaves during that time.
Secondly, Lincoln is not doing them any favors, nor is the Univ. Lincoln is not a bad place, but who ever cited it as a holiday destination? (as in: 'Honey, I'm bored, can we go to Lincoln for the weekend?' - these words have never been spoken.)(I love Norman, but it's only just barely above a negative for big city kids. Lincoln? Lincoln is like living in purgatory for them.) And UN is not exactly a magnet campus for high acheivers.

The only way they are going to come back is to find the right coach, pay him a sh*t pot of money and provide a blank check book to go get assistants and then recruit on the grounds that whoever comes will get playing time: NOW.

If they pick the right guy, and have the balls to stay out of his way, they have a chance to come back.

Otherwise it could be a long 25-30 years before we see the Huskers Du anything at all.

My opinion and I'm kind of sad about it.

I see what you're saying but how do they pull from anywhere then?
Why would some kid from SouthLake go there anymore than some kid from Chicago? They should be able to draw from the midwest just the same as Texas. Shouldn't they?

[KantoSooner]

absolutely, but, to be an elite program, they are going to have to draw from everywhere. And the only way I see them doing that is if their coach is able to create some buzz ................. because they have nothing else that will.

Or I could be totally wrong and they'll come back and bulldoze the nation next season. Anyway, that was my two cents worth.

[Mac94]

I'd throw Mack in the short list, too.

The sad thing is, this league ain;t much better, if it is at all, than the old SWC.

Ya'll are a class program, and Texas is good .... outisde of that its all a joke.

[Partial Qualifier]

Aww mac, keep yer chin up. Your program is strong, it has been for a long time, you just need a different head coach. I've always thought A&M was a sleeping giant, I guess Fran simply isn't the guy to wake it up.

[Mac94]

Partial -

Oh, I'm not burning my A&M gear or anythng .... it is my alma mater .... but its hard to see such **** poor football. I know we don't have the players like USC or Florida or ya'll .... but come on, our kids are better than that. This coaching staff is just flat out horrible. My fear is we'll pull out four more wins because the Big-12 is so bad and Fran will keep his job. At this point we either need to win out and beat Texas, Tech, Nebraska, and/or ya'll and make it clear that we can compete and have some decent feeling for this staff or tank so it'll be clear we need to move on. I fear a muddied middle ground that keeps the coach but keeps the fan base divided and/or apathetic.

[Partial Qualifier]

I fear a muddied middle ground that keeps the coach but keeps the fan base divided and/or apathetic.

Ugh, yeah that would suck. How many years are left on his contract?

[Mac94]

It goes through 2012, I think.

[royalfan5]

1st off I blame the horrendous coaches in this league who for the most part are D1 incompetent. With the exception of Leach and Stoops I dont see one single quality proven coach. What happened to all the Osbournes and Snyders?

2ndly it seems as though there has been a drop off in talent. Not so much in the south but with Colo's and the Neb's of the conference. What happened?
I dont understand in particular why Nebbish cant recruit the midwest (chicago-area better) Its like every one is fighting over the same recruits in Tejas, and of course the more distant north continually loses that fight. The Big10 thrives on the midwest recruits, Nebbish should be able to pull from there but they don't really.

Solution: dont really see one happening.
Just MHO
Outside of Iowa and Minnesota, Nebraska has never recruited the Midwest. Osborne could get who he needed out of Texas, California, Florida, and New Jersey in addition to the NE, KS, CO, and MO. The current staff has recruited California and the Southwest very well. I think we had 6 of the top 10 Arizona players. Demographically this makes sense because there are a lot of Nebraska alums and fans in AZ and CA. If you look at our current roster you will find a lot of players from the west. The Big 10/11 are always going to have Chicago on lock down for the most part. We aren't on TV there, and don't have the kind of presence we do in the west. NU might get a recruit here and there from Chicago, but it won't be consistent.

[TexasLidig8r]

Mac.. that 12 - 7 win over Texas last year is going to hurt your program so much for so much longer.

The quintessential pyrrhic victory.

[fwsooner22]

Mac.. that 12 - 7 win over Texas last year is going to hurt your program so much for so much longer.

The quintessential pyrrhic victory.


Ummmmm.......what exactly have the horns done since that loss......it may well have been the game that sent your program reeling......we are about to find out!

[Mac94]

Texas -

Maybe ... if we finish 4th oe so in the South again and still keep this staff. It was nice to beat you all ... but it's just one stink'n game and one that is proving to be a fluke at that. One decent win means nothing in light of the repeated embarassments we see every year. As the old saying goes, a stopped clock is right twice a day ... 12-7 was one of those rare "right times." Nothing more.

[TexasLidig8r]

Ummmmm.......what exactly have the horns done since that loss......it may well have been the game that sent your program reeling......we are about to find out!

What have we done? Gone 4 - 0 in unimpressive fashion.

aggy on the other hand.. humiliated in their bowl game, humiliated by a team that was humiliated by you.

Texas is a 9 win team this year with many talented youngsters in the program.

aggy has a huge buyout of Coach Francakes staring them in the face and a tradition of not finishing in the top 5 at the end of the year since Ike was in the White House!

[GottaHavePride]

I think Lid's point is that the win over Texas might have been a win that "saved Fran's job", keeping him off the hot seat just that much longer. Meaning A&M has to suffer through Fran's coaching that much longer. If they had lost, they might have been more willing to just can his *** and get a good coach.

[MiccoMacey]

As the old saying goes, a stopped clock is right twice a day ...
If you set your watch to military time (24 hour time), it's only right once a day. That may be a closer accounting of last year's game.
:D

[Mac94]

Point taken. ;)

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I am glad tx renewed Mac Brown's contract. They could do better!

[The Maestro]

Screw the Big 12. I am a fan of the Big 1. I'll NEVER be like some fan of a team in the SEC actually chanting that phrase I have heard opposing teams fans belt out..."S-E-C! S-E-C!" Can you imagine chanting, "Go Big 12! Go Big 12!" Who gives a Franchione?!?! If OU runs the table and gets left out of the title game because the conference sucks, oh well. Not our fault. But it won't hurt that Miami will likely be in the poll this week and they managed a 38 point loss to us.

[picasso]

Nebraska needs a coach. Callyhan ain't the answer and I'm quite glad they chose him.

Phil the Road Warrior's prediction is coming true. Callyhan = Smellsofbourbon.

[Position Limit]

the big looks really bad right now, and it's been trending downward for a few years. there's a reason texas and oklahoma have been in the national title multiple times the last 6 years. with the exception of OU and maybe mizzou, the rest would struggle in the big east, and not even compete in the big 10. every week i get to watch another big12 team get embarrassed on national tv. and they do it so well. i mean watching aggy last night and nebraska last week made my eyes hurt. texas should be thankful that their circus sideshow wasn't on display for all to see. what the **** do these teams do at practice? the only good coaches in the big 12 are stoops and former employees of stoops. i guess he's going to be the savior of this conference if given enough time. for the record, i don't think nebraska has hit bottom yet. texas, neb, atm, and osu are in for a very long season. enjoy.

[picasso]

well unless those teams you just mentioned have 8 more non-con games then their season is bound to improve. The Big 12 sucks right?

[MextheBulldog]

If OU runs the table and gets left out of the title game because the conference sucks, oh well. Not our fault.

This is exactly why a strong, or at least tougher, Big 12 is needed. I guarantee you will be *****ED* if OU runs the table and is not playing for a NC. And point 1 as to why they are not there will be: The Big 12 sucks.

[The Maestro]

This is exactly why a strong, or at least tougher, Big 12 is needed. I guarantee you will be *****ED* if OU runs the table and is not playing for a NC. And point 1 as to why they are not there will be: The Big 12 sucks.

Well, I know what you are saying, but if USC wins at Oregon, vs. Cal, at ASU and has already won at Nebraska and if LSU or Florida runs the SEC table I cannot make a legitimate argument why we should be there over them.

I pull for OU...I don't have the energy to pull for Big 12 teams out of conference. And besides...it's too late. Non-conference is almost over so what Big 12 teams do inside of conference doesn't matter. OSU folded, aTm embarrassed the hell out of themselves, Texas needed two onside kick recoveries to beat Arky State and Central Florida and Nebraska got run over by USC. Congrats Kansas on crushing horrible teams. Iowa State beat Iowa, but lost to Kent State and Northern Iowa. K-State fought hard at Auburn, who turned around and lost to Mississippi State. Texas Tech is unbeaten, but against bad teams.

Maybe a Baylor win at Buffalo tomorrow will make the Big 12 look good! ;)

[jkjsooner]

there's a reason texas and oklahoma have been in the national title multiple times the last 6 years.

I take offense to this. You're implying that none of us deserved to be in the title game. Last I noticed, Texas won it their year and we pretty much handled FSU in 2000.

I will be the first to say that in 2003 we didn't deserve to be in the Sugar Bowl because of the egg we laid in KC. That has nothing to do with how tough or weak our conference was.

I still say in 2004 we were a much better team than Auburn.

This is a down year for the Big 12. There is no doubt about that. However, to imply that OU or Texas couldn't make similar runs in other conferences is stupid. In 2000 (and maybe 2001) you could argue that the Big 12 was possibly the best conference in the country. OU, NU, and KSU were all extremely good teams and even Texas finished in the top 12. We didn't cry about how tough our conference was that year. Instead we went out and won every game.

I like all the talk about the SEC being impossible to win in yet if you look at the SOS there are always some Big 12 teams who have a higher SOS than some SEC teams. It is very possible to play weak non-conference games and a weak SEC schedule and it is also very possible to play a tough non-conference schedule and relatively tough Big 12 schedule. You see that every year. I think the crappy SEC schools (like Arkansas most years) are just looking for an excuse for their pitiful results.

[Position Limit]

jkjsooner,
the run we made in 2000 was the best i've seen in a long, long time. no argument here. besides that year, it's been pretty easy to go undefeated or only 1 loss in this conference. the year texas won was a terrible year for the big 12. it's was stoops' worst team. very easy road to the rose bowl for texas. dont get me started on the year nebraska played miami. it's no coincidence that the big12 has represented nearly every championship game the last 7 years. with the exception of the top 4 programs in the big12, most road games are played in glorified high school stadiums. not very hard to win in that kind of atmosphere if you're OU or texas. do yourself a favor, look at the point spread comparasion for sec matchups and big 10 matchups for conference play. top to bottom, the're much smaller than our joke of a conference.

[Stoop Dawg]

there's a reason texas and oklahoma have been in the national title multiple times the last 6 years. with the exception of OU and maybe mizzou, the rest would struggle in the big east, and not even compete in the big 10.

The Big Least is so inconsequential that I'm not even sure who is in it. Isn't that the conference Rutgers won last year? Rutgers?

And are you referring to the same Big 10 that boasts teams such as Michigan (we all know that story) and Wisconsin (did you see them play UNLV)?

Let's take a quick look at the top 10 this week:

1. Pac 10
2. SEC
3. SEC
4. Big 12
5. Big East
6. Pac 10
7. Big 12
8. Big 10
9. Big 10
10. Big 10

Yeah, the Big 10 and Big East are dominating. :rolleyes:

[Stoop Dawg]

jkjsooner,
the run we made in 2000 was the best i've seen in a long, long time. no argument here. besides that year, it's been pretty easy to go undefeated or only 1 loss in this conference. the year texas won was a terrible year for the big 12. it's was stoops' worst team. very easy road to the rose bowl for texas. dont get me started on the year nebraska played miami. it's no coincidence that the big12 has represented nearly every championship game the last 7 years. with the exception of the top 4 programs in the big12, most road games are played in glorified high school stadiums. not very hard to win in that kind of atmosphere if you're OU or texas. do yourself a favor, look at the point spread comparasion for sec matchups and big 10 matchups for conference play. top to bottom, the're much smaller than our joke of a conference.

I'm seriously wondering if you think this because you watch more Big 12 games. People are always more critical of their own team/conference. I started watching Wisconsin a couple of years ago (my wife is a Badger) and I can tell you for sure that they are NOT a dominant team, even though they finish near the top of the Big 10 every year. And remember OSU in 2002? Dominant? Uhhh, no.

I think you're looking at the cream of the other conference crops and comparing them to our cellar dwellars. JMO, of course.

[Position Limit]

stoop dawg,
i probably went overboard with the big east. they do suck. and i'm not a defender of the big 10, but how do you think penn state, ohio state, mich, wisc, and mich state would do in our conference this year? it a rhetorical question. and that's half of that conference. yeah i know mich lost to app state, but our only other good team had to recover and onsides kick to secure a win against ark st. this conference sucks. period.

[TUSooner]

I started to say that the SEC is not THAT much stronger than the Big 12, top to bottom. Then I just looked at the line-up of SEC teams, and I figure that even the WORST teams in the SEC (Vandy and the Misses?) would probably have a very good shot at winning the Big 12 North. :(

[Stoop Dawg]

Damn rhetorical questions. I'm gonna answer anyway.

Penn State - Don't know, haven't watched them.
Ohio State - Don't know, haven't watched them.
Michigan - Middle of the north, bottom of the south.
Wisc - Top/Middle of the north, middle of the south.
Mich St - Did you type that right? Bottom of both.

I would probably say that OSU + PSU might equal OU + UT. Wisconsin is just waiting to be outed. They'll definitely drop 1 (if not 2 or 3) of their next 4.

[Stoop Dawg]

I started to say that the SEC is not THAT much stronger than the Big 12, top to bottom. Then I just looked at the line-up of SEC teams, and I figure that even the WORST teams in the SEC (Vandy and the Misses?) would probably have a very good shot at winning the Big 12 North. :(

I have more respect for the SEC than the others. The Pac 10 has some nice teams at the top, but their bottom is as weak as ours.

[Stoop Dawg]

yeah i know mich lost to app state, but our only other good team had to recover and onsides kick to secure a win against ark st. this conference sucks. period.

And just so are aware, UNLV led Wis with 1:53 left in the game. And Citadel had them all tied up at the half. I know it sounds like I'm bagging on UW, but I'm really not. It just happens to be the Big 10 team I watch the most, and they look all too human.

[Position Limit]

Damn rhetorical questions. I'm gonna answer anyway.

Penn State - Don't know, haven't watched them.
Ohio State - Don't know, haven't watched them.
Michigan - Middle of the north, bottom of the south.
Wisc - Top/Middle of the north, middle of the south.
Mich St - Did you type that right? Bottom of both.

I would probably say that OSU + PSU might equal OU + UT. Wisconsin is just waiting to be outed. They'll definitely drop 1 (if not 2 or 3) of their next 4.
this just isnt rational thought. the big12 north would struggle in the wac. you need to be honest with yourself. anyway, enough of this nonsense. the market just closed and i'm off to the tailgate at the game. 4 hours of solid drinking and i'll be thinking ou should join the english premier conference.

big 12 football RULEZZZ!!!

[UberSooner]

Is there a web site that tracks confernce records? It would be interesting to see all of the bcs conference schedule results in a thumbnail.

[Stoop Dawg]

Is there a web site that tracks confernce records? It would be interesting to see all of the bcs conference schedule results in a thumbnail.

You, sir, are the consumate American.

(Welcome to the club)

Oh yeah, and http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/Stork440/106683

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Screw the Big 12. I am a fan of the Big 1. I'll NEVER be like some fan of a team in the SEC actually chanting that phrase I have heard opposing teams fans belt out..."S-E-C! S-E-C!" Can you imagine chanting, "Go Big 12! Go Big 12!" Who gives a Franchione?!?! If OU runs the table and gets left out of the title game because the conference sucks, oh well. Not our fault. But it won't hurt that Miami will likely be in the poll this week and they managed a 38 point loss to us.Yes, and from Position Limit:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the big looks really bad right now, and it's been trending downward for a few years. there's a reason texas and oklahoma have been in the national title multiple times the last 6 years. with the exception of OU and maybe mizzou, the rest would struggle in the big east, and not even compete in the big 10. every week i get to watch another big12 team get embarrassed on national tv. and they do it so well. i mean watching aggy last night and nebraska last week made my eyes hurt. texas should be thankful that their circus sideshow wasn't on display for all to see. what the **** do these teams do at practice? the only good coaches in the big 12 are stoops and former employees of stoops. i guess he's going to be the savior of this conference if given enough time. for the record, i don't think nebraska has hit bottom yet. texas, neb, atm, and osu are in for a very long season. enjoy.

[royalfan5]

What the Big XII ought to do is kick Nebraska out. I think it would be a good decision for all the parties involved.

[UberSooner]

You, sir, are the consumate American.

(Welcome to the club)

Oh yeah, and http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/Stork440/106683

I'm also the consummate spell checker ;) Thanks for the linky.

[Stoop Dawg]

Doh!

[LSUdeek]

I started to say that the SEC is not THAT much stronger than the Big 12, top to bottom. Then I just looked at the line-up of SEC teams, and I figure that even the WORST teams in the SEC (Vandy and the Misses?) would probably have a very good shot at winning the Big 12 North. :(

Miss St.'s defense is probably better than anyone's up there. Not sure about their offense, however. It'd probably get them to .500 easy in that conference.

[CORNholio]

I kinda think the North/South division idea was not a good one. I kinda favor a de-alignment with no divisions and no championship game ala big10.

Or

a realignment to even out the "weight" in the conference

i.e.
West:
Colo
Tech
OU
Texas
Kansas

East:
Neb
ATM
Okie Light
Mizzou
K-State
Baylor

Still makes a ou/neb champ game possible and possible A&M/Tex champ games etc...
Might create a more balanced league and allow some teams to get over the hump and rebuild their program (ahem...TAMU)

[insuranceman_22]

I think a&m does need to move on from Fran. He's not getting the job done for you guys. a&m has some tradition and last years team played off of that, but I don't see it happening again this year. You're heralded QB McGee isn't getting it done either. Coming out of Burnet, he & Shipley set all kinds of passing marks, but it's not happening in college. Granted he can run and he is tough, but can't throw for ****. Rarely when he does make a good pass the WR's can't catch it. We have been there too, I feel for you....but just so you know, each & every time you face the orange empire we're cheering like hell for you (sorry lid).

[insuranceman_22]

Corn - you can't put texas and texas a&m in different divisions, they'd only play 2 out of 4 years. Same with OU and osu!

[CORNholio]

the sec has a deal where each team keeps an out of division rival that they play annually. Maybe they could mix that in to keep the Ut/atm game.