The Ethanol Dirty Little Secret

[Okla-homey]

Cars and trucks get only about two-thirds the mileage out of ethanol they get from ordinary gasoline.

Now, explain to me again why ethanol is a good deal for the consumer and for reduction of greenhouse gasses?

[yermom]

there are less greenhouse gasses, but more $$$ (out of pocket, that is)

i think you get more power though. it's higher octane, like 100 or so (for E85)

[proud gonzo]

and i think it's made from renewable resources, unlike petrol

[Okla-homey]

and i think it's made from renewable resources, unlike petrol

PG, you are crazy smart but think about what you just said. If it takes three gallons of ethanol to go as far as you can on two gallons of ordinary gasoline, the fact the ethanol is mostly corn squeezin's does not make it a better deal for the Earth. It just makes it a better deal for Mr. Corn Farmer.

[yermom]

it's 85% corn squeezin's

at least the E85 that the "Flex Fuel" cars use is, that's the only ones i've heard of that lose 30% mileage

CNG was something like 50% less efficient, if i remember right

[1stTimeCaller]

The octane rating is 85 but it contains 10-20% ethanol. At least that's what I had to buy from the pump when I lived in Denver.

[Okla-homey]

The octane rating is 85 but it contains 10-20% ethanol. At least that's what I had to buy from the pump when I lived in Denver.

E10=10% corn squeezins (5-8% drop in fuel economy on average)

E85=85% corn squeezins (30% drop in fuel economy on average)

[1stTimeCaller]

Ahhh, I sit corrected, kinda. I just remember it being 85 octane and then there was another sticker that said 'contains up to 15% ethanol'. I thought that was E85.

I liked paying more $ for less octane. That was awesome!!

[Okla-homey]

I liked paying more $ for less octane. That was awesome!!

And here's the other thing. Yes, corn is "renewable." But the energy and resources needed to cultivate it and convert it to ethanol has to be significant. Not to mention the demand for ethanol is raising the prices of everything made from corn -- including impoverished third-world folks' tortillas.

[yermom]

yeah, that's where it gets stupid

they should be finding a way to make gas out of rice that we overproduce and dump on third world countries that don't want it

[Okla-homey]

yeah, that's where it gets stupid

they should be finding a way to make gas out of rice that we overproduce and dump on third world countries that don't want it

I'm holding out for the Professor's "Mr Reactor" in BTTFII.

In the meantime, it just seems to me the answer in the short-term is probably legislatively mandated fuel economy.

I also think, if sufficiently motivated, the automotive industry is capable of designing and producing an internal combustion engine that will get 40-50 MPG and still crank out enough horsepower for full-size pick-up.

[critical_phil]

....including impoverished third-world folks' tortillas.
THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!!1!1!


i'm becoming a complete conspiracy theorist about the whole deal. several auto makers will trot out their newest hybrid/electric concepts at the frankfurt show, yet i doubt we'll see any of those on the street in the next decade.

[yermom]

Mr. Fusion :D

i think they are getting up there with the hybrids and the fuel economy, but it's not cheaper for the consumer, so i think it's slower to take off. some of the all-electric cars look interesting.

[critical_phil]

i made a tin-foil hat after watching who killed the electric car?


oh and:

VOLVO, BITCHES!!!1!! (http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1176678508)

[JohnnyMack]

<shrugs>

Who cares?

The oil lobby is way too powerful to ever allow ethanol to become anything more than a bone thrown at the masses.

[yermom]

i made a tin-foil hat after watching who killed the electric car?


oh and:

VOLVO, BITCHES!!!1!! (http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1176678508)

that seems like the way it should work...

i just wonder how much $$$ you actually save plugging that thing into the wall at night

[critical_phil]

that seems like the way it should work...

i just wonder how much $$$ you actually save plugging that thing into the wall at night


probably depends on the size of the wind turbine in your back yard.

[royalfan5]

Ethanol has a positive energy balance using modern technology. I will have exact numbers for you by the end of the year. Even with the lower energy output than gasoline.(Something that can be fixed by using higher compression in engines) Sugar based ethanol is much better and delivers a much higher energy balance, which is why Brazil is energy independent.

However, using corn based ethanol does make a dent in our importation of fossil fuels. The problem is the governments policies have horrible distorted the marketplace, and our behavior is essentially addiding 1 to 2 billion people to the worlds population in terms of demand. Also, even if cellousistic ethanol because technology feasible it will likely never become logistically feasible in the near or medium terms. In addition given the low end stocks of all the major grains this year, especially the coarse grains, prices could really get out of hand as wheat and soybeans buy back acres.

[OklaPony]

i think you get more power though. it's higher octane, like 100 or so (for E85)
Even if that were true, it's a common mistake to think that more octane equals more power. The octane rating is just a formula which produces a number that signifies at what point the fuel will explode; the higher the number the more pressure / ignition it takes to explode it. Most cars on the road today will not benefit at all from running "premium" and are better off running whatever octane number the manufacturer recommends since that is specifically what the motor is designed for. Generally speaking, you should use the lowest octane number you can get and not have issues with "pinging" or pre-detonation, which is the rattle-can sound you may hear when accelerating at lower rpms. In an otherwise-healthy motor that rattle-can sound is the explosion starting too early in the firing stroke; a higher octane will delay the process.

[Okla-homey]

Ethanol has a positive energy balance using modern technology. I will have exact numbers for you by the end of the year. Even with the lower energy output than gasoline.(Something that can be fixed by using higher compression in engines) Sugar based ethanol is much better and delivers a much higher energy balance, which is why Brazil is energy independent.


With all due respect, your lack of objectivity on this subject calls into question the implications and meaning of the assertions and data you provide.

[royalfan5]

With all due respect, your lack of objectivity on this subject calls into question the implications and meaning of the assertions and data you provide.
So the fact that I am a professional ethanol researcher with access to actual hard data from operating plants, negates my ability to form an objective opinion, especially in light of the fact that I am paid to be an objective researcher of ethanol?

In addition if you use the search function you will find that I have been very critical of corn ethanol over the past year and a half. Hardly the cheerleader you are trying to make me out to be.

[olevetonahill]

Ive been making My own ethanol fer years .
Just None of it ever makes it to my gas tank .
That stuff evaporates Fast ;)

[olevetonahill]

So the fact that I am a professional ethanol researcher with access to actual hard data from operating plants, negates my ability to form an objective opinion, especially in light of the fact that I am paid to be an objective researcher of ethanol?
That about sums it up .

[Scott D]

i made a tin-foil hat after watching who killed the electric car?


oh and:

VOLVO, BITCHES!!!1!! (http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1176678508)

it's still a FORD, son. :)

[Vaevictis]

Cars and trucks get only about two-thirds the mileage out of ethanol they get from ordinary gasoline.

Now, explain to me again why ethanol is a good deal for the consumer and for reduction of greenhouse gasses?

The miles per gallon number isn't really what's important because you're comparing across fuel types. A more appropriate measure would be dollars per mile.

Take a look here: http://e85prices.com/

Now, I haven't really looked hard into just how reliable that site is, but let's just assume it's about right.

In a lot of places -- mostly where there's a lot of supply around the corn producing states with infrastructure already built out -- the ethanol prices make pretty much make up for the lower gas mileage. Further away from these states where transportation costs are higher and infrastructure is yet to be built out, it doesn't.

That's just the direct comparison. Of course, there are a lot of other factors like royalfan's comments about corn demand impacting corn price and the supply of other crops, or the fact that every gallon of ethanol bought reduces the demand for oil (and all of the good and bad things that come from that...)

[soonerbrat]

did you know of the corn grown in the US, more of it goes into bird food than for human consumption?

[bluedogok]

Well, any industry in its infancy (as a mass production item) is going to cost more that a comparable mature industry. The scale of economies/efficiency will improve as more development occurs. I am all for R/D into bio-fuels as a way of reducing dependence of oil imported from overseas.

Europe is selling just over 50% diesel passenger cars, that is what needs to be pushed here because bio-diesel can be made from many different sources which are not required to be imported. They are no longer the slow, smoky lumps they once were.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

I also think, if sufficiently motivated, the automotive industry is capable of designing and producing an internal combustion engine that will get 40-50 MPG and still crank out enough horsepower for full-size pick-up.


Europe is selling just over 50% diesel passenger cars, that is what needs to be pushed here because bio-diesel can be made from many different sources which are not required to be imported. They are no longer the slow, smoky lumps they once were.

If I remember my reading, Daimler-Benz has developed high mileage diesel powerplants. 40-50 mpg with comparable horsepower ratings to lower mileage gasoline powerplants. Apparently diesel is actually what they're pushing for over there because of the flexibility of fuel sources and what can be accomplished with a lil' engineering.

But that's off the top of my head.

[mdklatt]

What sucks is that all ethanol talk is taking away attention from other alternative energy sources, like wind and solar. It's apparently going to take a while for us to get over our hard-on for filling stations and fuel tanks of some kind. :texan:

[Tulsa_Fireman]

What sucks is that all ethanol talk is taking away attention from other alternative energy sources, like wind and solar. It's apparently going to take awhile for us to get over our hard-on for filling stations and fuel tanks of some kind.

So where is it we bolt the windmill on my pick-up again? I don't have room with the gigantic solar panel in the bed and on the roof. :P

[Frozen Sooner]

Ahhh, I sit corrected, kinda. I just remember it being 85 octane and then there was another sticker that said 'contains up to 15% ethanol'. I thought that was E85.

I liked paying more $ for less octane. That was awesome!!

So long as you weren't using a high-compression engine, what did you care what the octane was?

[Frozen Sooner]

Folks, octane does not equal "power." Octane is a measure of how resistant a fuel is to pressure.

[StoopTroup]

I like corn on the cob.

[mdklatt]

So where is it we bolt the windmill on my pick-up again? I don't have room with the gigantic solar panel in the bed and on the roof. :P

Electric. Motor. Plug that sucker in when you get home. Electric cars don't have the range (yet), but most people don't make long trips for most of their driving anyway. With direct-drive motors for each wheel you can eliminate all the complication of a transmission, plus you get a buttload of torque. This is way the railroad locomotives work.

Somebody mentioned the documentary Who killed the electric car? I think there was a lot of tinfoil hat wearing during it's filming, but it did make a lot of interesting points.

[Vaevictis]

What sucks is that all ethanol talk is taking away attention from other alternative energy sources, like wind and solar. It's apparently going to take a while for us to get over our hard-on for filling stations and fuel tanks of some kind. :texan:

Ethanol is solar power. ;)

[1stTimeCaller]

So long as you weren't using a high-compression engine, what did you care what the octane was?

From my novice point of view it seems that higher octane gasoline costs more than lower octane gasoline does. I could very well be wrong.

I moved to Denver where 85 octane fuel cost me more than 87 octane had cost me in SE Missouri.

The care came in the cost.

[Frozen Sooner]

From my novice point of view it seems that higher octane gasoline costs more than lower octane gasoline does. I could very well be wrong.

I moved to Denver where 85 octane fuel cost me more than 87 octane had cost me in SE Missouri.

The care came in the cost.

The fact that higher-octane gasoline costs more than lower-octane gasoline has nothing to do with the quality of the gas, though. In this situation, the octane is irrelevant. The fact that it cost more for lower mileage is the issue.

[Frozen Sooner]

Ethanol is solar power. ;)

Technically, pretty much all power except for geothermic and nuclear is solar. :D

[Vaevictis]

Yup. :D

Ethanol (and oil, and coal) is basically repackaged solar power.

One of the reasons I doubt that we're going to move away from internal combustion engines any time in the near future is that the fuel's energy capacity is so damned efficient.

[1stTimeCaller]

The fact that higher-octane gasoline costs more than lower-octane gasoline has nothing to do with the quality of the gas, though. In this situation, the octane is irrelevant. The fact that it cost more for lower mileage is the issue.

The fact that you get less mpg with 85 octane gasoline containing 10% ethanol than you do from 87 octane gas leads me to believe that 87 octane is a better quality of fuel.

The fact that I paid more for a cheaper product was my issue. Apparently mileage is yours. Cool.

[Frozen Sooner]

Whether it leads you to believe that or not, you're incorrect. Again, octane only refers to the ability of the gas to resist combustion by pressure vs. spark. Using low-octane gas in high-pressure engines leads to the gas combusting before the piston completes its cycle, which can severely damage the piston.

Ethanol is a less-efficient fuel than gasoline. That's why it's giving you less mileage. The octane has nothing to do with it.

[1stTimeCaller]

you're confusing yourself.

[royalfan5]

did you know of the corn grown in the US, more of it goes into bird food than for human consumption?
That because most of the corn consumed by humans is as meat and dairy products.

[royalfan5]

Here is the industry standard biofuels modeling system that my boss developed and I apply. http://www.bess.unl.edu/

Scientifically, ethanol produces at net energy gain at the modern plant of 1.4 to 1 and up depending on fuel source. The closed circuit plant at Mead Nebraska that uses methane digesters on a feed lot to heat the boilers, and the Bluefire Plant in North Dakota that uses waste heat from a power plant score much higher. It also provides a greenhouse gas net benefit. This is why ethanol was pushed as an environmental aid until the current administration needed a showhorse for their energy policy, and ethanol got drafted to the delight of Agri-business special interests. Scientifically and Economically there is no harm in a modest ethanol industry to provide cleaner burning fuel. However, that is not what we are doing. The Federal Policy has created an unsustainable artificial market for ethanol by creating incentives for ethanol production that aren't based upon anything rational. If people thought this year brought high commodity prices, it is realistically only the beginning. Here is a good read on the subject produced by one of my colleagues. http://agecon.unl.edu/peters/pubs/rd-2007-08-1.pdf

[Mark_of_Tulsa]

Whether it leads you to believe that or not, you're incorrect. Again, octane only refers to the ability of the gas to resist combustion by pressure vs. spark. Using low-octane gas in high-pressure engines leads to the gas combusting before the piston completes its cycle, which can severely damage the piston.

Ethanol is a less-efficient fuel than gasoline. That's why it's giving you less mileage. The octane has nothing to do with it.

That is correct, but let me word it better for you.

E85 has a lot less BTU's per gallon. That is the reason for less mpg, and power than regular old 87 octane.

Running a higher octane does not give you more power in a stock engine, nor is it a better quality gas. It does not have any more additives to it than a lower octane gas.

[Frozen Sooner]

^^

Yeah. Thank you.

[JohnnyMack]

As usual, you morons haven't paid attention to the post where I point out that a secret society (probably trilateral in nature) based somewhere between NYC and Boston is controlling oil prices and allowing you think there will ever been any other option, when the truth is, there won't. We're all the bitches of the trilateral oil cartel. So basically, stop yer yammering.

[Okla-homey]

So the fact that I am a professional ethanol researcher with access to actual hard data from operating plants, negates my ability to form an objective opinion, especially in light of the fact that I am paid to be an objective researcher of ethanol?


Yes. Nothing personal and no offense intended. ;) See, it's one of those conflict of interest dealios. A person is pretty incapable of being rising above objectivity impeachment if he, as I am under the impression you do, receives his daily bread from an entity which stands to benefit from any testimonials favoring corn as fuel. It's rather like accepting positive tobacco opinions/data/evidence from a scientist employed by the tobacco industry. Won't flush.

Ditto accepting data from the University of Kentucky on the health advantages of bourbon whiskey or the greatness that is Wal-Mart from the University of Arkansas.

[usmc-sooner]

if corn was better we'd have huge corn companies selling corn oil(or whatever) for $3.00 a gallon.

Holy crap people get out of you crap in your pants hysteria mode and embrace common freakin sense. It is what is.

[SoonerGirl06]

As long as I don't have to spend boo-koo bucks to fill my tank and don't have to fill my tank every 100 miles, I don't care what they make it out of.

But that's just me and I've had a few Corona's so I may not be thinking clearly.

[royalfan5]

Yes. Nothing personal and no offense intended. ;) See, it's one of those conflict of interest dealios. A person is pretty incapable of being rising above objectivity impeachment if he, as I am under the impression you do, receives his daily bread from an entity which stands to benefit from any testimonials favoring corn as fuel. It's rather like accepting positive tobacco opinions/data/evidence from a scientist employed by the tobacco industry. Won't flush.

Ditto accepting data from the University of Kentucky on the health advantages of bourbon whiskey or the greatness that is Wal-Mart from the University of Arkansas.
The University of Nebraska has a long history of being very skeptical of Corn based ethanol. The Ag Econ department briefly got the University defunded in the 1980's by being against it. The people I work for don't benefit from ethanol is fuel, and we are funded by the USDA and not private sources. I get paid no matter how the study turns out. Just like Dr. Peters gets paid even though his study that I linked in the above post is very skeptical. I have been consistently skeptical about corn ethanol, as you can see by many of my past posts. The most likely result of our study is we will find out how bad the Federal Government has messed things up with the meddling. I don't think the study will yield very much positive at all. I work for UNL/USDA/North Central Experiment Station, not the corn board. I invite you review our departments body of research to see for yourself.

[usmc-sooner]

So the fact that I am a professional ethanol researcher with access to actual hard data from operating plants, negates my ability to form an objective opinion, especially in light of the fact that I am paid to be an objective researcher of ethanol?

In addition if you use the search function you will find that I have been very critical of corn ethanol over the past year and a half. Hardly the cheerleader you are trying to make me out to be.

wasn't but a couple of months ago you were looking for a job in Ag-lending in rural towns in Oklahoma. Not taking a shot at you, just calling it like it is. An Ag-Business degree ain't chemical engineering

[royalfan5]

wasn't but a couple of months ago you were looking for a job in Ag-lending in rural towns in Oklahoma. Not taking a shot at you, just calling it like it is. An Ag-Business degree ain't chemical engineering
And on Wednesday I was interviewing to be the main oil seeds analyst for the 3rd largest multinational agribusiness conglomerate. It is a Master's Degree in Business with an Agribusiness emphasis. I did finish in the top 5% of National MBA graduates on the exit exams. And I wasn't looking for a job in Ag-Lending in Oklahoma, I was looking at them as a comparison to other opportunities because I was bored at work in the afternoons, as well as using it as an opportunity to create conversation on the board because I am curious about Oklahoma, not because I didn't have better options.

[usmc-sooner]

And on Wednesday I was interviewing to be the main oil seeds analyst for the 3rd largest multinational agribusiness conglomerate. It is a Master's Degree in Business with an Agribusiness emphasis. I did finish in the top 5% of National MBA graduates on the exit exams. And I wasn't looking for a job in Ag-Lending in Oklahoma, I was looking at them as a comparison to other opportunities because I was bored at work in the afternoons, as well as using it as an opportunity to create conversation on the board because I am curious about Oklahoma, not because I didn't have better options.

my bad

[critical_phil]

But that's just me and I've had a few Corona's so I may not be thinking clearly.


Mike Rich is saying 87 octane is kind of like a Corona, and 1TC is saying E85 is kind of like Natty Lite.

i think.


i was trying to say, **** the Ay-rabs.

[JohnnyMack]

my bad

cornpwned

[bluedogok]

if corn was better we'd have huge corn companies selling corn oil(or whatever) for $3.00 a gallon.

Holy crap people get out of you crap in your pants hysteria mode and embrace common freakin sense. It is what is.
Go to a grocery store and price a gallon of corn oil, it does cost more than $3.00 a gallon. There are huge corn based companies out there, ADM anyone? Why do you think there is so much in farm subsidies out there for corn farming.

[Fraggle145]

I'm holding out for the Professor's "Mr Reactor" in BTTFII.

In the meantime, it just seems to me the answer in the short-term is probably legislatively mandated fuel economy.

I also think, if sufficiently motivated, the automotive industry is capable of designing and producing an internal combustion engine that will get 40-50 MPG and still crank out enough horsepower for full-size pick-up.

This would be a lot better. Production costs for ethanol, plus the emissions that they produce are not so good (at least as far as the flex fuel cars go). It also requires large amounts of space and often monoculture crops which are not good for the environment and are often less productive than polyculture plots. They use these because it is easier to get production out of the microbial communities that are used for the transformation to ethanol. For instance in Oklahoma I believe we have decided to use switchgrass, which does well in wet years, the problem being is that the decision to use this crop was based on the last 20 years or so which for the large part have been wet vs the actual last 100-150+ years which have been wet and dry in a largely alternating cycle every 5-10 years.

Currently there is a new paper that is about to come out on this based on plots at Kessler farm, which is an OU study center. Basically showing that switchgrass is not going to be sustainable under the current warming climate nor will it be that largely profitable. Sort of like how we have farmers in Oklahoma growing cotton. But that is an entirely different can of worms. Basically the whole thing doesnt make much sense for the environment, but it sounds good and should keep us "hippies" silent for a few years till the truth comes out and then it will be all of our fault.

Fixing gasoline fuel economy would do much more for the reduction of our dependence on foreign oil and would work better for the environment, but we want to appear like we are trying to do something. I mean who do you think is going to fuel the production of the ethanol in the first place: the oil and farming lobby.

[usmc-sooner]

cornpwned

I was wrong about his resume,

not like I got bitch slapped by an aggie and got shut down, like a weak radio show. :D

[soonerboomer93]

As usual, you morons haven't paid attention to the post where I point out that a secret society (probably trilateral in nature) based somewhere between NYC and Boston is controlling oil prices and allowing you think there will ever been any other option, when the truth is, there won't. We're all the bitches of the trilateral oil cartel. So basically, stop yer yammering.

next time you talk to them, can you ask them to make sure the next project contract is signed asap, I would prefer to be deployed to the next job site in March...

(oh, and I wouldn't mind a raise)

kplzthx

tia

[StoopTroup]

As usual, you morons haven't paid attention to the post where I point out that a secret society (probably trilateral in nature) based somewhere between NYC and Boston is controlling oil prices and allowing you think there will ever been any other option, when the truth is, there won't. We're all the bitches of the trilateral oil cartel. So basically, stop yer yammering.
Is the Trilateral Council still using the old tricorders or have they switched to the new I-Tricorders?

http://www.technovelgy.com/graphics/content05/tricorder-detail.jpghttp://www.kottke.org/plus/misc/images/iphone-parallels.jpg

[1stTimeCaller]

That is correct, but let me word it better for you.

E85 has a lot less BTU's per gallon. That is the reason for less mpg, and power than regular old 87 octane.

Running a higher octane does not give you more power in a stock engine, nor is it a better quality gas. It does not have any more additives to it than a lower octane gas.

Wait a minute, you and Mike Rich are taking the position that a fuel that costs more yet has less BTU's per gallon and less mpg is of the same quality as another fuel that is cheaper(in another part of the country) yet has more BTU's and gives you better mpg?

I wish I was smart enough to understand that but sadly I am not.

Awww heck, I almost fell for it. You guys were just foolin' with me, weren't you?

[Frozen Sooner]

No. We're just saying that octane rating has nothing to do with the quality of the gas. Apparently I misread your posts as claiming that it did.

[Okla-homey]

The University of Nebraska has a long history of being very skeptical of Corn based ethanol. The Ag Econ department briefly got the University defunded in the 1980's by being against it. The people I work for don't benefit from ethanol is fuel, and we are funded by the USDA and not private sources. I get paid no matter how the study turns out. Just like Dr. Peters gets paid even though his study that I linked in the above post is very skeptical. I have been consistently skeptical about corn ethanol, as you can see by many of my past posts. The most likely result of our study is we will find out how bad the Federal Government has messed things up with the meddling. I don't think the study will yield very much positive at all. I work for UNL/USDA/North Central Experiment Station, not the corn board. I invite you review our departments body of research to see for yourself.

Just stop it.;) You get paid by a university system which is funded and pwn3d by Big Corn -- unless Warren Buffet is cutting mongo checks a-la T. Boone Pickens. Listen to yourself man! NU Cornhuskers for crying out loud. No way any research with NU on the letterhead can possibly be objective in this area.

http://aycu04.webshots.com/image/26443/2004464818804168541_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2004464818804168541)
Ethanol Good! Must Buy Corn Fuel!

[olevetonahill]

Just stop it.;) You get paid by a university system which is funded and pwn3d by Big Corn -- unless Warren Buffet is cutting mongo checks a-la T. Boone Pickens. Listen to yourself man! NU Cornhuskers for crying out loud. No way any research with NU on the letterhead can possibly be objective in this area.

http://aycu04.webshots.com/image/26443/2004464818804168541_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2004464818804168541)
Ethanol Good! Must Buy Corn Fuel!
Aint that what I said 2 pages ago ?
Hell I been makin my own fer years But I havnt been able to develope a system to get it from the the collector to the Tank , That stuff evaporates betwwen the collection point and the Tank !
Or maybe I just drink it ? hell if I know !:cool:

[usmc-sooner]

And on Wednesday I was interviewing to be the main oil seeds analyst for the 3rd largest multinational agribusiness conglomerate. It is a Master's Degree in Business with an Agribusiness emphasis. I did finish in the top 5% of National MBA graduates on the exit exams. And I wasn't looking for a job in Ag-Lending in Oklahoma, I was looking at them as a comparison to other opportunities because I was bored at work in the afternoons, as well as using it as an opportunity to create conversation on the board because I am curious about Oklahoma, not because I didn't have better options.

still no offense intended but an MBA with an emphasis in Agri-business isn't a chemistry major or doing hard corps scientific research. I don't doubt you maybe compiling stats.
but in July you were wanting to know what to wear for interview with a tractor manufacturing company.
http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95906&highlight=royalfan and now you're the expert on corn ethanol.

take a look at the physics involved and nothing comes close to giving you the bang for the buck that gasoline does. We covered this topic in physics 101. They can make cars that run on anything even water but you'd have to be driving cars with 100 gal tanks to go very far.

[olevetonahill]

Hell Jarhead
Offense Intended here ! :D

[sanantoniosooner]

With all due respect, your lack of objectivity on this subject calls into question the implications and meaning of the assertions and data you provide.
I can think of about 3 other topics that this could be said to you on.

[royalfan5]

still no offense intended but an MBA with an emphasis in Agri-business isn't a chemistry major or doing hard corps scientific research. I don't doubt you maybe compiling stats.
but in July you were wanting to know what to wear for interview with a tractor manufacturing company.
http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95906&highlight=royalfan and now you're the expert on corn ethanol.

take a look at the physics involved and nothing comes close to giving you the bang for the buck that gasoline does. We covered this topic in physics 101. They can make cars that run on anything even water but you'd have to be driving cars with 100 gal tanks to go very far.
It is a lot of statistical research. And I am flying to New York City next week or the week after to interview with Bunge who happens to be the largest Soybean processor in the world, among other things to be their lead research analyst for soybeans. And I don't know why you think agribusiness is any simpler than any other business? And my current job is to be an expert of corn ethanol. Maybe you are the kind of guy that doesn't take pride in his job, but I do.

[sanantoniosooner]

Royal, don't take it personal.

Some of these guys know more about football than Bob Stoops.

[royalfan5]

Just stop it.;) You get paid by a university system which is funded and pwn3d by Big Corn -- unless Warren Buffet is cutting mongo checks a-la T. Boone Pickens. Listen to yourself man! NU Cornhuskers for crying out loud. No way any research with NU on the letterhead can possibly be objective in this area.

http://aycu04.webshots.com/image/26443/2004464818804168541_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2004464818804168541)
Ethanol Good! Must Buy Corn Fuel!
So instead of following up on my links and actually seeing the research for yourself, you just want make baseless accusations. Nebraska is a bigger beef state than corn state, and ethanol is undermining the stockmen of Nebraska. So just consider that when you assume we are shill for corn. Or you could actually check out some our research and decide for yourself.

[usmc-sooner]

It is a lot of statistical research. And I am flying to New York City next week or the week after to interview with Bunge who happens to be the largest Soybean processor in the world, among other things to be their lead research analyst for soybeans. And I don't know why you think agribusiness is any simpler than any other business? And my current job is to be an expert of corn ethanol. Maybe you are the kind of guy that doesn't take pride in his job, but I do.

I think agribusiness is great, I'm saying it's not chemistry or chemical engineering. You're degree is no less important. As far as taking pride in my job, I've been taking pride in my job since you were in HS getting little corn boners. :eek:

[yermom]

still no offense intended but an MBA with an emphasis in Agri-business isn't a chemistry major or doing hard corps scientific research. I don't doubt you maybe compiling stats.
but in July you were wanting to know what to wear for interview with a tractor manufacturing company.
http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95906&highlight=royalfan and now you're the expert on corn ethanol.

take a look at the physics involved and nothing comes close to giving you the bang for the buck that gasoline does. We covered this topic in physics 101. They can make cars that run on anything even water but you'd have to be driving cars with 100 gal tanks to go very far.

"bang for the buck" is kinda relative

if you are actually talking dollars greasel (http://www.goldenfuelsystems.com/) beats it pretty handily

and in royalfan's defense, he has been saying for a while that the way we are pushing ethanol is bad for business and our economy in the long run

[royalfan5]

I think agribusiness is great, I'm saying it's not chemistry or chemical engineering. You're degree is no less important. As far as taking pride in my job, I've been taking pride in my job since you were in HS getting little corn boners. :eek:
So you've done a lot of statistical analysis and chemical engineering to know that one is way easier than the other?

[usmc-sooner]

So you've done a lot of statistical analysis and chemical engineering to know that one is way easier than the other?

yep, that's what I do. I do statistical analysis and chemical engineering, fight bad guys and post on the internet. I'm quite amazing.

[usmc-sooner]

your honor I'd like to present evidence that the witness is not in fact a corn expert, but merely a farm equipment salesman in down town Omaha.

If the witness has any rebuttals then he can analyze this.

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95906&highlight=royalfan

corn expert my ***

[sanantoniosooner]

your honor I'd like to present evidence that the witness is not in fact a corn expert, but merely a farm equipment salesman in down town Omaha.

If the witness has any rebuttals then he can analyze this.

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95906&highlight=royalfan

corn expert my ***
Well your expertise is only backed up by your alleged need to back away from the urinal 3 inches.

[1stTimeCaller]

I've been eating Captain Crunch Berries for breakfast this week. I almost went with Special K Red Berries but I'm glad I went for the 100% sugar/HFCS cereal instead. I hadn't had CCB in years.

Next week should I go with Cinnamon Toast Crunch or Fruitty Pebbles?

TIA

[Mongo]

Capt. Crunch sucks

go with Fruity and Chocolate pebbles and rotate around

[sanantoniosooner]

Capt. Crunch sucks

go with Fruity and Chocolate pebbles and rotate around
this post could sound more gay if you had the village people doing it.

[usmc-sooner]

Well your expertise is only backed up by your alleged need to back away from the urinal 3 inches.

Give me 1 second their SAS, I'm about to close a deal on a 60 new 140- PTO-hp 6030 John Deere tractor. I'm just might throw in a hay rake.

[1stTimeCaller]

what kind of cereal do folks from Anadarko eat?

I'm going to guess either Rice Krispies or Apple Jacks.

[Mongo]

this post could sound more gay if you had the village people doing it.


so you are a fan of things hurting the roof of your mouf and gums? And pebbles are gay?

[usmc-sooner]

what kind of cereal do folks from Anadarko eat?

I'm going to guess either Rice Krispies or Apple Jacks.

Tribal commodity cereal

oh and btw last Friday night we had us some Chickasha Chicks for supper 18-16 :texan:

[1stTimeCaller]

Tribal commodity cereal

oh and btw last Friday night we had us some Chickasha Chicks for supper 18-16 :texan:

That's awesome! I'm an Ardmore Tiger fan now when it comes to HS foorball. I hope the Chicks never win another game in any sport.

[sanantoniosooner]

so you are a fan of things hurting the roof of your mouf and gums? And pebbles are gay?
sucks, fruity, chocolate pebbles............all in the same post.

The flow of the post makes it sound metaphorical. ;)

[usmc-sooner]

That's awesome! I'm an Ardmore Tiger fan now when it comes to HS foorball. I hope the Chicks never win another game in any sport.

what happened?

[sanantoniosooner]

what happened?
He interviewed with a new HS.

[usmc-sooner]

That's awesome! I'm an Ardmore Tiger fan now when it comes to HS foorball. I hope the Chicks never win another game in any sport.


what happened?

please make your answer brief as I'm busy taking pride in compiling statistics about corn.

also does anyone know if they have airports NYC, I've got a job interview there in a couple of weeks. I know how can one leave the corn stat field, for life in the city but I've got to explore all options.

[Mongo]

sucks, fruity, chocolate pebbles............all in the same post.

The flow of the post makes it sound metaphorical. ;)

I can see sucks and fruity, but choclate pebbles has no seckshual innuendo to it, unless it is like a Hot Carl

[royalfan5]

your honor I'd like to present evidence that the witness is not in fact a corn expert, but merely a farm equipment salesman in down town Omaha.

If the witness has any rebuttals then he can analyze this.

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95906&highlight=royalfan

corn expert my ***
So I take it you aren't good enough with the search function to find this thread where I talk about how I had accepted a 6 month gig running a major ethanol research project?

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97129&highlight=ethanol

[usmc-sooner]

So I take it you aren't good enough with the search function to find this thread where I talk about how I had accepted a 6 month gig running a major ethanol research project?

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97129&highlight=ethanol

that's why you're the corn research expert, you've got mad research skills.

On a more serious note
Boy, while you're dicking around on the internet the corn ethanol stats are going to ****, and tractor sales are are in the damn toilet.

[royalfan5]

that's why you're the corn research expert, you've got mad research skills.

On a more serious note
Boy, while you're dicking around on the internet the corn ethanol stats are going to ****, and tractor sales are are in the damn toilet.
but trying to figure out how big of internet penis you have is so much more fun, and I have everything wrapped up for the morning. I don't have much to do until my meeting at one.

[usmc-sooner]

but trying to figure out how big of internet penis you have is so much more fun, and I have everything wrapped up for the morning. I don't have much to do until my meeting at one.

It's an inferioritycomplex, it's small and pathetic. I've always been a guy on the outside looking in.
I'm sorry I just wasn't smart enough to make it in the corn industry.

[1stTimeCaller]

I'm still mad about them running off the best HS football coach in the state and then they were pretty crappy to my mom too. Then the counselors at the HS angered me last April-May.

[Mongo]

Then the counselors at the HS angered me last April-May.


Is this cause they didnt give away the 1stTimeCaller Lowest Common Denominator Scholarship?

[JohnnyMack]

Is the Trilateral Council still using the old tricorders or have they switched to the new I-Tricorders?

http://www.technovelgy.com/graphics/content05/tricorder-detail.jpghttp://www.kottke.org/plus/misc/images/iphone-parallels.jpg

I think they're using something like this:

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/54/039_4084.jpg

[JohnnyMack]

Is this cause they didnt give away the 1stTimeCaller Lowest Common Denominator Scholarship?

No. They ran him out of the parking lot while he was cruisin' for chicks.

[Mongo]

No. They ran him out of the parking lot while he was cruisin' for chicks.


heh, giving the girls KOOLS to smoke on there lunch break:D

[1stTimeCaller]

:(

The AD turned down $50,000 from a former player to update the weight room a few years ago .

The place is overran with idiots.

[usmc-sooner]

:(

The AD turned down $50,000 from a former player to update the weight room a few years ago .

The place is overran with idiots.
Adrian Peterson is running the show in Chickasha?:D

Alexander? Holy Crap that was a dumb move. I know you don't have to be corn stat smart to be an AD but a little common sense would go a long ways.