Did OU Start the Downfall of Florida State?

[tru2ou]

Since the 13-2 upset in the OB, here is Florida State's record and ranking to end the year...

2001 - 8-4 (Ranked #15 in the final AP poll)
2002 - 9-5 (Ranked #21 in the final AP poll)
2003 - 10-3 (Ranked #11 in the final AP poll)
2004 - 9-3 (Ranked #15 in the final AP poll)
2005 - 8-5 (Ranked #23 in the final AP poll)
2006 - 7-6 (Unranked in final AP Poll)
2007 - 0-1 (losing to unranked Clemson in the first game)

In the 90's FSU finished in the top 5 every year. Since the OU game in 2000, they have never finished in the top 10.

Just something to think about...

- tru

[sanantoniosooner]

If beating FSU is what caused Bowden to go senile.....then yes.

But I think it was already setting in.

[OklaPony]

OU is Bobby Bowden's kryptonite. He's never beat us, EVAR!

[King Crimson]

that, and Mark Richt leaving for UGA

[Miami1Fan]

that, and Mark Richt leaving for UGA

mark richt leaving and chris weinke leaving - which left Chris Rix the QB.

[badger]

their last great (for florida state standards) season was 2000. since they, i'd say their seasons would be good enough for OU in 2000 :D

after all, after all that losing, wouldn't ou fans be happy just getting ranked again?

surprise... national title ;)

[oupride]

This is something I had noticed too. However, it must have already been setting in. I can't believe we were responsible. Look at all the varibles it takes just to get back and win the NC. What ifs. JW gets hurt in Big 12 Championship vs KState. No Dusty D vs USC....

[JohnnyMack]

that, and Mark Richt leaving for UGA

Stop it you. You and your rational thoughts.

[Jacie]

I wonder if it might have started when he brought his son onto the coaching staff (he was let go this year after serving as OC). Maybe a little too much Bowden was their problem. Of course, it didn't help that they have to compete with Miami and Florida for the home grown talent. That game the other night against Clemson showed they weren't through, however. The 'noles made a run at em in the second half, not bad considering they were on the road in a stadium that is billed as "Death Valley".

[wishbonesooner]

I was watching that game the other night with my son and I told him the same thing, that they haven't been the same since we shocked the world and dismantled their "greatest offense in the history of college football". Still sweet ain't it?

[usmc-sooner]

Bobby stayed past his prime and he had a dozen or so assistants become head coaches.

Why do people think college coaches should be able to coach as long as they want. If you're in a real job and you suck nobody says well he was really good in the 80's and 90's let him decide when he quits.

[King Crimson]

Bobby stayed past his prime and he had a dozen or so assistants become head coaches.

Why do people think college coaches should be able to coach as long as they want. If you're in a real job and you suck nobody says well he was really good in the 80's and 90's let him decide when he quits.

PSU and FSU have never had success with anyone else. it's fear. UT gave a Mack a lifetime contract, wtf is that? Colorado did the same thing with McCartney in the early 90's.

[yermom]

upset? pfft.. ;)

their QB troubles haven't helped, i mean Lyme Disease?

lately it didn't help that there is a lot more power in the ACC, they didn't have a lot of resistance in that conference before then, i mean it was almost automatic for them to make the BCS

[stoopified]

YES

[arcman46]

I was watching that game the other night with my son and I told him the same thing, that they haven't been the same since we shocked the world and dismantled their "greatest offense in the history of college football". Still sweet ain't it?

Wait a minute; I thought Okie State had the "worlds greatest offense":D

[The_Red_Patriot]

Many fans say they still havent recovered from Weinke's fumble.

[FaninAma]

FSU's program lost it's shine after they lost a lot of top flight assistant coaches. I think the same thing will happen to USC and Texas.

[JohnnyMack]

FSU's program lost it's shine after they lost a lot of top flight assistant coaches. I think the same thing will happen to USC and Texas.

In all fairness, Saxet only had 1 or 2 good assistants. One of them is a Cyclone now. With their talent pool they have to recruit from they could have Cap'N Crunch and a table lamp as their coaches and they'd still be a top 10 program.

[snp]

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/8433/jeffbowdenmq1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This probably had something to do with it.

[MI Sooner]

I'm just glad we didn't play Miami in that game (UW would have been fine with me, though). Not that we couldn't or wouldn't have beaten them, but I thought they were better than FSU that year. If we had played them, I think there's a chance (~50/50) we'd be attempting to avenge the first of our three losses in the BCS championship games this weekend. Then again, FreeShoesU was +6 or so, so it wasn't like we were favored against them, either.

[Osce0la]

It was more Richt leaving, JB coming in, and Bobby replacing assisstants over the years trying to avoid having to get rid of Jeff...Our offense sucked, so he hired a new OL coach (who also sucked). Instead of recognizing the problem, Bobby placed blame on the fans and the players, and was content with 7-6 because we "won more than we lost, so it was a success". The "win more than you lose" attitude set in because if he thought it was good enough, then he could keep Jeff on the staff. Finally the boosters said enough is enough and actually paid Jeff $500,000 to get the hell out ($100K/year for the next 5 years), when his contract was already set to run out this fall :mad:...we couldn't even just buy out his contract, we had to pay the buyout and pay a few extra $100K...:mad:

Our problems have been lack of coaching, starting from the top. Bobby said the fans were too hard on Jeff and that the only reason he took so much crap from the fans was because he was Bobby's son...Only problem with that is that the only reason he wasn't fired after 2002 is because he was Bobby's son. Jeff, Dickey, and McHale spent several years undoing an offense that was a consistent top 5 in the country. I really think Jimbo Fisher and Rick Trickett can get the offense back on track - but we may have to wait until Weatherford and Lee leave. Seems that 3 years of Daryl Dickey coaching can not be shaken too easily...

[GoOwls]

Why do people think college coaches should be able to coach as long as they want. If you're in a real job and you suck nobody says well he was really good in the 80's and 90's let him decide when he quits.


Tenured professors come to mind...

Then again, you did say 'real job'.

[snp]

Instead of recognizing the problem, Bobby placed blame on the fans and the players, and was content with 7-6 because we "won more than we lost, so it was a success". o The "win more than you lose" attitude set in because if he thought it was good enough, then he could keep Jeff on the staff.



"Because you all ignited it," he said to a small room of reporters. "You listen to eBay and e-mail and all that junk, and you all kept writing about it and that fans it and makes it grow and grow, and it becomes a cancer. That's why."

I know when I need my college football information, I go straight to the source: EBAY

[Scott D]

The most obvious reasons are as follows.

1. as KC said, Mark Richt left for Georgia
2. Quarterback development hit the skids after Weinke graduated after his 10 years of college service ;) (coincides with Richt leaving)
3. Joining the ACC at the time was good it was FSU and the little 8. Now the ACC brought in half the Big East, more specifically it's "power" teams in Miami, VT, and BC.

I really don't see how anyone can really consider that loss to Clemson @ Clemson to be any sort of upset. Clemson has a running game that FSU would kill to have...and Clemson wasn't chopped liver defensively last year either. The only upset is that Clemson forgot how to score after the first quarter in that game.

[Animal Mother]

In all fairness, Saxet only had 1 or 2 good assistants. One of them is a Cyclone now. With their talent pool they have to recruit from they could have Cap'N Crunch and a table lamp as their coaches and they'd still be a top 10 program.

Pure gold!!!
Is Mack the lamp or the cereal????

[AlbqSooner]

I'm just glad we didn't play Miami in that game (UW would have been fine with me, though). Not that we couldn't or wouldn't have beaten them, but I thought they were better than FSU that year. If we had played them, I think there's a chance (~50/50) we'd be attempting to avenge the first of our three losses in the BCS championship games this weekend. Then again, FreeShoesU was +6 or so, so it wasn't like we were favored against them, either.
The line on that game opened at +14, by game time it was +11. I was living in Florida at the time and made some serious money on that game.:D

[goingoneight]

In the 1990's, there were three teams. Florida, Florida State and Nebraska. They were the 70's Oklahoma, the 2000's USC/UT/OU... they were a constant. Today's top (young) coaches and assisntants had roots in those programs.
Bobby Bowden, as we all know is an ol' ol' mon. So is JoePa, and both of them were in the BCS Orange Bowl 2006. They've had some shakeups with assistants and they've been out-recruited by their rivals and even some of their former assistants. I don't think age has anythign to do with what has happened to FSU.

My theory:
Oklahoma was a straight up dog going into the 2001 Orange Bowl. If anyoen had anything to prove, the media said it was this feller named Bob Stoops. I can remember it like it was yesterday. People were predicting the Sooners to get massively blown out (see "the game which we do not speak of").
FSU caught some bad breaks before the game in losing Snoop Minnis and all, but the "world's greatest offense" versus "little old Oklahoma's "defense"" as they so sarcastically put it, would still roll in FSU's favor. A great majority of the country tuned in wondering what Oklahoma was all about. For cryin' out loud, I know I did. Some thought we didn't have it in us to take down "the greatest team ever" led by the Heisman trophy winner.

FSU got the ball first and had one memorable play that would serve as the offensive highlight of their 2001 Orange Bowl. Heupel was still a little sore from his injury, but he had something the "world's greatest defense" didn't have... a coach's mind. Nevermind we were undefeated under the King against Bobby Bowden, this was a different time and era. They were right, it was. No wishbone, different defense and for once in Oklahoma history, an underdog mentality. FSU was suppose to roll. The only thing that would roll is the goose egg they laid until Jeff Ferguson felt sorry for them and took a safety (okay, so that's not exactly why he did :D).

Case in point... FSU got owned by an up-and-coming Oklahoma team. They lost top-flight assistants and they didn't have the energetic CEO like a Pete Carroll or Bob Stoops to keep their heads held up high and rebuild them. Bobby Bowden as many FSU fans pointed out got a little sloppy and started to accept rather aggy seasons as "good enough." What did he care? He had National Championship trophies and his name smothered record books.

When you get deflowered (:D) like FSU did in that Orange Bowl, or like we did in the year that doesn't exist, in the game which we do not speak of... you have to have incredible leadership and coaching to put the pieces back together of a shattered dynasty. Think about how bad 2005 and 2006 could have been with Larry Coker coaching OU. Those were brilliant coaching jobs that kept us on track when we were spinning out of control fast post-game which we do not speak of. Look at Arkansas versus us the last two years. They had a similar recruiting class in 2005 and were just as young and inexperienced as we were. SEC, my ***... the BIG 12 had a better post-season in 2005 and OU played a much scarier schedule than did Arkansas by year's end. One team went 4-7, and spent the holidays watchign the bowl games on TV... the other finished 9-3, with a convincing win over 5th-ranked Oregon that had many high on the Sooners as the #1 team for 2006. Thanks again, Rhett. :rolleyes: Again, another bump in the road and Stoops made a 12-2 season out of it. Would Bobby Bowden, Larry Coker or Mack Brown go to a BCS bowl if they lost their offense's tailored trigger man hours before fall practice started? Possibly, but not likely.

Vince Young's miracle game is also the kind of game that could ruin a modern powerhouse. If USC had a bunch of assistants bail on them soon and Pete began to say a PAC 10 every three years is enough... they'd fall, too. In Bobby Bowden's younger days, he had the best of the best lined up to replace guys like Richt. Switzer had them, too.

Does it all go back to Weinke's fumble? Meh... that's what set up the winning score for OU. I think what started their downfall was the way Bowden and Co. responded to that loss in years following.

[The Maestro]

They need another 30 year old balding QB that pees when Torrance talks.

[hink4769]

jeff bowden is the man most responsible for the downfall of the noles. look at the talent that has been wasted. anquan bolden has been awesome the last few years for the NFL cardinals and leon washington might be the starting rb for the jets this year, they didnt do much at fsu because the offensive scheme was so awful.

[tulsaoilerfan]

FSU hasn't had a halfway decent QB since Weinke; THAT is their downfall

[Salt City Sooner]

PSU and FSU have never had success with anyone else. it's fear. UT gave a Mack a lifetime contract, wtf is that? Colorado did the same thing with McCartney in the early 90's.
Not to nitpick, but Penn St. was pretty good pre-Paterno, esp. the 5 coaches immediately preceding him (combined 285-147 record).

[King Crimson]

Not to nitpick, but Penn St. was pretty good pre-Paterno, esp. the 5 coaches immediately preceding him (combined 285-147 record).

it's cool. thing is though, i have a good buddy and colleague who is a big PSU guy and he likes to bag on the Big 8 (mostly because he's mad Nebraska got the NC in 1994). so, a few years ago i did some extensive research about PSU's schedule when they were an independent. and they were playing teams like Bucknell and Duquesne in addition to Army and Navy every year. that ended the Big 8 bashing.

i don't really put a lot of stock in PSU wins/losses prior to the late 80's i guess.

i respect you as a poster Salt City, you are a good one. but, i look at that about 66% win total and i'm not that impressed.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Of course we started it. We destroy wannabes on a regular basis!!!!

See ya Saturday Cokeheads!

[goingoneight]

Now, if only we could end Mack Brown's success (hint, hint: October).