Thoughts on the Michigan upset...

[soonerspudman]

Ya know, been thinking about the Michigan loss and fall from the poles, I can understand that it's the fashionable thing to do, but in some ways it's a slap in the face to Apalachian State, these guys are the two-time defending 1-AA national champions - true playoff proven national champions. I know, I know, it's 1-AA and all, but these guys really are champions and they play like it.

Michigan is probably not nearly as bad as today's popular thinking and I believe the Big-10 year-end results will prove that out and Michigan will likely finish in the low teens somewhere.

My point is that Michigan wasn't beaten by some unknown 1-AA patsy that came out of nowhere, Apalachian State is championship caliber and pulling Michigan from the top 25 is like saying they lost to a crappy bottom feeder, it's everyone's way of trying to make sense of this thing.

Best to just say parity is here to stay and one really good team lost a close upset to another really good team instead of knee-jerking the poles.

[OklahomaSooners]

I not so sure about the parity thing, But I am pretty much with ya on the rest of it, (for the most part)!!

[usmc-sooner]

there is no way in hell Ap State should beat Michigan at Michigan. They don't have the tradition, money, facilities, recruiting, etc....

I felt the same way about OU/ BSU but at least BSU was a Div I team in a BCS Bowl game. Michigan should be embarrassed.

[SoonerLB]

Well said soonerspudman.

Apy State should be getting some accolades instead of laughter. I think there are probably a whole bunch of 1-A teams in this country that are very happy they don't have to play them.

And of course, as we all know, the Big 10 as a whole is always over-rated! ;)

[King Crimson]

the parity thing has been "gonna happen" every since i was a kid. and, to some degree it's true.....but it seems more like the March Madness "Cinderella" stuff to me....network/sports journalism hype when the bottom line is you get some upsets but the reality is the better teams are generally from the big conferences. it's not like the last 3-5 NCAA tournaments invented "upsets"--though, you'd be had to believe it.

the future of NCAA football is a Cold War/arms race style spending battle between schools like USC, OU, Texas, ND, Ohio State, Michigan, LSU, a couple Florida schools....to win championships. there's not much parity there.

and, it's been that way for quite a while. BYU ain't winning the BCS championship in 84.

[King Crimson]

there is no way in hell Ap State should beat Michigan at Michigan. They don't have the tradition, money, facilities, recruiting, etc....

I felt the same way about OU/ BSU but at least BSU was a Div I team in a BCS Bowl game. Michigan should be embarrassed.


if that was your approach to the Boise game that's kinda naive. they had a senior laden team out for blood against a Sooner team that had overachieved all year. and to be honest, after we sold out to the blitz to protect our db's towards the end of the season (Venables always blitzes on 3rd and long).....i knew Boise would score on us. we played good D against teams that were one dimensional. we were beatable against teams that were balanced on O. Boise was one of maybe two teams that both ran and passed for over 200 yards per in the NCAA. or something like that.

wasn't like we were blowing out ATM, OSU and Tech or even Colorado. as great an effort as Thompson gave us last year....as a DC with a month and a season worth of tape to prepare it was pretty easy to see what throws he could make and not make.

and when Kelly gets hurt, we lose our go to guy.

[Jacie]

MY thoughts on the Michigan upset?



BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[soonersn2007]

At least this has made everyone forget about us losing to Boise State, they should use game film of Michigan's loss now in that stupid commercial.

[Widescreen]

I don't buy the whole parity thing at all as it related to I-AA. Their training programs cannot compete with a top tier I-A school like Michigan and the players they get are nowhere near as gifted as Michigan's. Michigan lost that game. Sure, Appy State played really well and deserved to win but I place the result at Michigan's feet rather than something awesome ASU did. There was no excuse for what happened Saturday.

[usmc-sooner]

I don't buy the whole parity thing at all as it related to I-AA. Their training programs cannot compete with a top tier I-A school like Michigan and the players they get are nowhere near as gifted as Michigan's. Michigan lost that game. Sure, Appy State played really well and deserved to win but I place the result at Michigan's feet rather than something awesome ASU did. There was no excuse for what happened Saturday.

exactly

[Dan Thompson]

What got me *****d today, is when CBS in LA said the Michigan's drop out of the polls, considering how high they where, "has only happened once before and that was when ND beat Oklahoma."

What the hell does that have to do with today?

Now that we are #5 in the AP poll, I look back to see what happened to the last team that was #5 and it looks a little scarry.

[CatfishSooner]

Think Carr is gonna get fired?

[usmc-sooner]

Think Carr is gonna get fired?

he should

[OUHOMER]

I am in the Widescreen camp on. However i will give it up Appy st for not being intimidated and not giving up. But Michigan should have been better prepared.
So screw'um

[MichiganSooner]

Since when does "tradition" win games. Michigan has won more games than just about anyone but I remember several losing seasons there. Just because the band high steps and forms a big block M when the drum major bends over backwards to touch his hat on the field does not make the team a champion. When Bo showed up in 1969, Michigan was a break-even team for several years except for 1963 or so when they won the Big 10.

App State didn't exactly blow them out. Michigan put up a tremendous rally to almost win.

Question: If App State can beat Michigan, how many other teams could they beat?

Money doesn't win the games either; it helps in buying what a coach needs and makes the place nicer for us to watch a game. If money wins games, why didn't OSU beat Georgia with T Bones millions? Why didn't they win the Big 12? Why hasn't Texas A&M? They have plenty of money.

App State likely does not have fancy facilities but do you think they have a few barbells to lift in the corner of their locker room? Is a 350 pound set of weights just as heavy as the 350 pound set at OU or Nebraska. So they don't have an indoor facility; games are played in the rain and snow so why can't practice be in the same conditions. I remember an ice storm hit Ann Arbor before the 1969 game with undefeated Ohio State. Did Bo have a great indoor practice field at the time? No..he gave snow shovels to the captains and assistant coaches and said practice starts in 40 minutes--get busy.

I understand great facilities attract the top high school players to your campus but once they get to whatever team they join, the game is played on a field 100 yards long. The players at App State were heckuva high school atletes recruited by great programs who were going to put them in new positions; the guys simply ended up at App State playing their high school positions, won 2 national titles, and happened to travel to Ann Arbor last weekend.

After our loss to Boise, and they were as lucky to pull it out as we were to take the lead on the pick in the final minute, and this thing at Michigan, I believe we are hopefully headed to some type of play-off in Division 1 instead of stupid polls determining who plays for the MNC.

One final comment: Why don't the polls wait until about 5 games are played before being published?

[OUHOMER]

One final comment: Why don't the polls wait until about 5 games are played before being published?

Where would the fun be in that. We need something to talk about between games :D

[CatfishSooner]

One final comment: Why don't the polls wait until about 5 games are played before being published?[/QUOTE]\

B/C then fans wouldn't have anything to bitch at...:rolleyes:

[RedstickSooner]

I agree with you on it not being as much an upset as claimed, *but*, I think pollsters were sending a message with the drop, and a valid one:

Division 1-A schools should never, ever schedule division 1-AA schools.

(Or whatever retarded, assinine thing it is we're calling 1-A and 1-AA now).

Seemed to me that was the message the pollsters sent. Personally, I'd like it if they made it a habit to drop any team that plays a 1-AA team 5 rungs even if they win. (And, obviously, drop 'em like a rock if they actually manage to lose).

What was Michigan thinking, anyhow, scheduling such a *good* 1-AA team? Did they think that this way they'd get a guaranteed win, but it'd somehow be a more "challenging" guaranteed win, so it'd be a better tune-up for the regular season?

A team with back-to-back national championships is obviously pretty damned good. But when you've got 117 1-A teams (or somewhere close to that, I dunno the precise number offhand) to choose from, claiming you couldn't fill your schedule with competition from the same division of football is absurd. How many of those 1-A teams Appalachia State could beat isn't the point -- the point is that 1-A has plenty of variety, and going hunting for easy wins amongst a weaker division is cowardly.

Or, in Michigan's case, a foolhardily brave form of cowardice.

[MichiganSooner]

Personally I'm waiting for Troy, Florida Atlantic and Sam houston state to take out the Pukes.

[OUHOMER]

They schedule these things years in advance. So 3 years ago APP ST was just another sap.

[OUHOMER]

A team with back-to-back national championships is obviously pretty damned good. But when you've got 117 1-A teams (or somewhere close to that, I dunno the precise number offhand) to choose from, claiming you couldn't fill your schedule with competition from the same division of football is absurd. How many of those 1-A teams Appalachia State could beat isn't the point -- the point is that 1-A has plenty of variety, and going hunting for easy wins amongst a weaker division is cowardly.

Or, in Michigan's case, a foolhardily brave form of cowardice.

This is the way of the future. Bill Snyder perfected it. Its been going on for years. Its kind of like every one would love to schedule Baylor or Utah state

[TripleOption14]

Think Carr is gonna get fired?

Yeah he is done at Michigan. I just don't see how he can survive this. Plus he has been teedering on be fired for some time now. He finishes the year but if he is given another chance for success i'll be shocked!

The real question is..... Do you think Lloyd Carr knows he's done? :)

[soonerspudman]

Since when does "tradition" win games. Michigan has won more games than just about anyone but I remember several losing seasons there. Just because the band high steps and forms a big block M when the drum major bends over backwards to touch his hat on the field does not make the team a champion. When Bo showed up in 1969, Michigan was a break-even team for several years except for 1963 or so when they won the Big 10.

App State didn't exactly blow them out. Michigan put up a tremendous rally to almost win.

Question: If App State can beat Michigan, how many other teams could they beat?

Money doesn't win the games either; it helps in buying what a coach needs and makes the place nicer for us to watch a game. If money wins games, why didn't OSU beat Georgia with T Bones millions? Why didn't they win the Big 12? Why hasn't Texas A&M? They have plenty of money.

App State likely does not have fancy facilities but do you think they have a few barbells to lift in the corner of their locker room? Is a 350 pound set of weights just as heavy as the 350 pound set at OU or Nebraska. So they don't have an indoor facility; games are played in the rain and snow so why can't practice be in the same conditions. I remember an ice storm hit Ann Arbor before the 1969 game with undefeated Ohio State. Did Bo have a great indoor practice field at the time? No..he gave snow shovels to the captains and assistant coaches and said practice starts in 40 minutes--get busy.

I understand great facilities attract the top high school players to your campus but once they get to whatever team they join, the game is played on a field 100 yards long. The players at App State were heckuva high school atletes recruited by great programs who were going to put them in new positions; the guys simply ended up at App State playing their high school positions, won 2 national titles, and happened to travel to Ann Arbor last weekend.

After our loss to Boise, and they were as lucky to pull it out as we were to take the lead on the pick in the final minute, and this thing at Michigan, I believe we are hopefully headed to some type of play-off in Division 1 instead of stupid polls determining who plays for the MNC.

One final comment: Why don't the polls wait until about 5 games are played before being published?

Really good stuff here. No matter how much money a school has, it still only has so many scollies. It's entirely possible, be it Appy State or Boise State, that a group of one and two stars overlooked by the money schools can come together as 18 year olds and in 2-3 years develop into a team to be reckoned with. It helps in understanding why the BCS schools jealously guard the BCS, they're saying "we're the ones spending all the money, we want the payout" and they block non-BCS schools out.

For example (yikes, bad place to try and make this point) if Boise State runs the table for a second year (hypothetical guys, not saying they will), they will have put together one of the best 5-year runs in the history of college football (47 game streak withstanding), but they have zero, none, nada snowball's chance to play for the NC.

It's just ludicrous to pick who should or should not win based on the athletic budget, it's all about work ethic, discipline, and heart. Michigan is still easily a top-25 team, the mainstream just can't accept, and is even threatened that a small-budget school can field a team just as good, or on some days even better. Therefore, cast Michigan out of the top 25, which also then puts Appy Sate back in their proper place.

[hink4769]

Yeah he is done at Michigan. I just don't see how he can survive this. Plus he has been teedering on be fired for some time now. He finishes the year but if he is given another chance for success i'll be shocked!

The real question is..... Do you think Lloyd Carr knows he's done? :)

Remember, the Big 10 season hasn't even started yet. If Michigan beats Ohio St. and wins the conference he won't get canned. The man's got a national championship and a slew of big 10 titles.

[Paperclip]

Remember, the Big 10 season hasn't even started yet. If Michigan beats Ohio St. and wins the conference he won't get canned. The man's got a national championship and a slew of big 10 titles.

But you can guarantee there will be "Big 10 Champions" t-shirts all over Boone, NC.

[PLaw]

Three thoughts:

1) The pre-season polls are ridiculous and unfairly bias the highest ranked teams in the BCS rankings, but they sell alot of magazines and will be with us forever.

2) It takes some of the sting away from the Fiesta Bowl.

3) Loyd Carr is HIST-O-REE if Big Blue doesn't come back to win the Big 10.

BOOMER
PLaw

[CUinNC]

They schedule these things years in advance. So 3 years ago APP ST was just another sap.

Nope - this game was an 11th hour deal.....App St was having a helluva time this year filling out the schedule - outside their conf. games....it went on until March or so, and then all of a sudden, the schedule was done with Michigan on it for 9/01

So, not only did Michigan take the game, they lost their $400K to APP St - pretty funny...

After they won back-to-back 1-AA championships, it was all bets off on anyone wanting to schedule tham, and they tried a lot of big schools...

[fadada1]

it's very simple to understand, really.

go to a 1AA game. if you can't see the difference you're as blind as an oregon replay offical. there's a reason why these kids play at 1AA schools and NOT at a 1A school. whether it be appalacian state, sam houston state, tarleton state, steven f. austin, etc..., most of those guys would be scout team for 1A programs. they were very good high school players that had great games once a year, but not on the level of the stars.

remember folks, baylor, as bad as they are, still gets the best players from high school teams. appalacian state and the like do not. don't get me wrong, appalacian state played out of their minds and they deserved to win. BUT, we all know if they played 99 more times, michigan wins with ease.

plain and simple, michigan got beat by an inferior team and they deserve all the bashing they're getting.

[MichiganSooner]

Cool thing about this game after it was over. A few students went over to the football field in Boone, climbed the fence and tore down a goal post. Carried it down Main Street where several hundred joined in the parade. Took it to the Chancellor's house and planted it there.

Several pictures and stories still at the Boone, NC paper. http://www.wataugademocrat.com/index.php

[soonerboomer93]

2002
August 31 at No. 24 Marshall L 50-17 0-1 (0-0)

2003
August 31 at Hawaii L 40-17 0-1 (0-0)

2004
September 4 at Wyoming L 42-15 0-1 (0-0)

2005
September 10 at Kansas L 36-8 1-1 (0-0)

2006
September 2 at North Carolina State L 23-10 0-1 (0-0)


Yeah, that's parity right there. ASU did a very "cinderella" thing. They had no business winning at Michigan. Michigan ****ed up, got out played, out coached and were under prepared. Parity has jack **** to do with it.

[soonerboomer93]

Nope - this game was an 11th hour deal.....App St was having a helluva time this year filling out the schedule - outside their conf. games....it went on until March or so, and then all of a sudden, the schedule was done with Michigan on it for 9/01

So, not only did Michigan take the game, they lost their $400K to APP St - pretty funny...

After they won back-to-back 1-AA championships, it was all bets off on anyone wanting to schedule tham, and they tried a lot of big schools...

They lost to NC state last year, and Kansas the year before. You know, to maybe low-mid tear BCS teams. In the years they won their championships. I properly prepared team would have won. Michigan has no excuse.

[sanantoniosooner]

Going vanilla against a lesser opponent can kick your behind.

Don't think that didn't come into play here also.

[NS5]

Some media are like sharks, smell the blood and they start circling. M will recover, you can bank on it.

[sanantoniosooner]

I bet Oregon takes them out next

[fadada1]

tennessee had a problem a couple years ago. they didn't lose to a 1AA team, but they lost early, and kept it up. can't remember the year (maybe 2-3 years ago)...

they started ranked very high and ended up not going bowling. michigan could find themselves in a world of hurt if they lose to oregon.

[sanantoniosooner]

In spite of recent events I will be painting myself with a highlight marker for that game.

My mean side is stronger than my bitter side.

[Soonerborn03]

What was Michigan thinking, anyhow, scheduling such a *good* 1-AA team? I asked the same question to myself by the end of their 1st half. What is the positive in scheduling a game against a team that has just won back-to-back 1 AA National Championships? I can only find reasons not to do it.

1. Even if Michigan destroys them, the game will be spun so that everyone in the country will be saying, "yeah, but it was only a 1-AA team".

2. These guys are obviously going to be very confident since all they have known over the past couple of years is winning. They're coming into Michigan's house with nothing to lose. They're supposed to lose anyway, so why not give it your best shot and see where things go.

The only positive I can see from a Michigan stand point is that maybe they would get some competition from a good team early in the season. Is that worth taking the chance of being absolutely embarrassed in your own stadium? I would think not, but I doubt they really thought it could happen in the first place.