Craig Resigns

[Rogue]

Linkage (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070901/ap_on_go_co/craig_arrest)


"I am not gay. I never have been gay..."









.

[slickdawg]

The message here is don't use any bathroom stalls in Idaho.

[OKLA21FAN]

and dont listen to your Ipod in the stall, and tap your feet to the beat!

[critical_phil]

Linkage (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070901/ap_on_go_co/craig_arrest)


"I am not gay. I never have been gay..."




his lying about the issue isn't going to make this deal go away. it'll just be a bigger story when all the evidence of his peter pufferiness hits the headlines.

[Soonrboy]

I saw something that said he was accused of messing with male pagers back in the early 90's??? I'm too lazy to look it up, just like spreading innuendoes.

[meoveryouxinfinity]

"I am not gay. I never have been gay..."

No, you're just from Boise. Men having sex with men is understandable completely acceptable.

[47straight]

I have a bad streak of Murphy's law. I just know that I'm gonna innocently ask for a double cheeseburger no onions and pickles at a Whataburger, small sweat tea sometime and then vice is gonna swarm all over me.

[GottaHavePride]

Urgh. Sweat tea? Sounds nasty.

[Cam]

Urgh. Sweat tea? Sounds nasty.
Far from it my friend. Good sweat tea ='s a 2-3 hour sugar rush to get you thru the day.

[usmc-sooner]

As a Republican, I'm glad he stepped down. The dude was guilty, if not he wouldn't have pled guilty.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

As a Republican, I'm glad he stepped down. The dude was guilty, if not he wouldn't have pled guilty.What do you suppose would have happened if he was a democrat? The incident occurred several months ago.

[VeeJay]

If he were a Democrat, he likely would have been lauded as a "gay American" and applauded for his honesty and bravery. Laws on the dockets forbidding solicitation of casual sex in restrooms would have been attacked as discriminatory. Check with the Kucinich campaign for a ruling on that. All depending on how liberal his voting record was.

Good riddance.

As an aside, when I go into a public restroom, it's not my favorite place in the world to be. I want to do my business and get out. I ain't playing footsies with no-damned-body.

[leavingthezoo]

What do you suppose would have happened if he was a democrat? The incident occurred several months ago.

why do you do this? seriously?

[Frozen Sooner]

why do you do this? seriously?

Paranoid schizophrenia.

[sooner_born_1960]

The message here is don't use any bathroom stalls in Idaho.
Minnesota.

[OklahomaTuba]

About time. What a sick pervert. No one should be in congress and have plead guilty to a crime like this.

[Chuck Bao]

If he were democrat and voted against some of the blantantly homophobic legislation, this wouldn't have been such an issue. I don't like this arrest on foot tapping stuff, like some you, but it does make an interesting and newsworthy story. Republican senator gets arrested for guy sex solitication in Minnesota airport restroom. Heh!

Republican!!!

[r5TPsooner]

The message here is don't use any bathroom stalls in Idaho.


Because they'll make you ghey?

[StoopTroup]

How many of you have ever had someone tap your foot in the restroom?

I never have...

Go ahead...

Be honest now...:D

[Harry Beanbag]

I just don't get (and hopefully never will) how you can take a dump in a public restroom, hear the guy next to you grunting, groaning, farting, splattering, and smelling the joint up and get turned on? **** YEAH!!! I want me some of that!!!1!!1!!! :rolleyes: :confused:

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I just don't get (and hopefully never will) how you can take a dump in a public restroom, hear the guy next to you grunting, groaning, farting, splattering, and smelling the joint up and get turned on? **** YEAH!!! I want me some of that!!!1!!1!!! :rolleyes: :confused:Was that part of the cop's testimony?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

If he were a Democrat, he likely would have been lauded as a "gay American" and applauded for his honesty and bravery. Laws on the dockets forbidding solicitation of casual sex in restrooms would have been attacked as discriminatory. Check with the Kucinich campaign for a ruling on that. All depending on how liberal his voting record was.
This IS the correct answer.

[Rogue]

This IS the correct answer.
Do you really believe yourself? Really now? :rolleyes:

Come on, man, don't try to paint this a liberal witch hunt. Larry Craig did this, nobody else. The "family values" crowd isn't even with you on this because they might, you know, have to poop sometime.

[Chuck Bao]

Don't twist this around.

This guy is a REPUBLICAN. He's not a Democrat. He didn't vote for constitutional rights being extended to same sex partners.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Got another one. Wheedogies!!! Who's next?

[jk the sooner fan]

What do you suppose would have happened if he was a democrat? The incident occurred several months ago.

who cares what party he is?

seriously, i'm glad he's gone, regardless of party affiliation

[Rogue]

Got another one. Wheedogies!!! Who's next?

**** off dip****.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

**** off dip****.Well, who's next?

[jk the sooner fan]

when i was cid at fort hood, we ran a "sting" operation on a public restroom.......glory holes between the stalls....ran video on the place 8 hours a day for 7 days, busted 30 guys.......half of them married, none of them thought they were gay

but they used the same type of signaling that you see in the officer's report

i'm just tired of the corruption anymore.....you do something criminal, and you need to go, period, end of story.

serving our country as an elected official - we deserve better

[Rogue]

when i was cid at fort hood, we ran a "sting" operation on a public restroom.......glory holes between the stalls....

Did you give it a cool name?
Operation John John?

[jk the sooner fan]

no, i think it was fag busters.....

[Chuck Bao]

Umm. Jk, you don't see anything wrong with that?

If the whole idea is to stop sex in a public place, couldn't you have just printed out and posted on the bathroom door something like: "this place is being monitored".

Wouldn't that be better than video taping men taking a pee and a crap?

Like that's not invasion of privacy.

[jk the sooner fan]

Umm. Jk, you don't see anything wrong with that?

If the whole idea is to stop sex in a public place, couldn't you have just printed out and posted on the bathroom door something like: "this place is being monitored".

Wouldn't that be better than video taping men taking a pee and a crap?

Like that's not invasion of privacy.

dont see anything wrong with what? stopping indiscriminate sex in a public restroom used by children?

the stalls didnt have doors, so there was no privacy issue

we did our legal research before the operation

this was on a military installation, so no, i didnt have one single problem letting those people know that if they want to give each other gloryhole BJ's, they can do it somewhere not on a military installation

i was a cop, not a social worker

and these men were not peeing or crapping

they were there for one reason, SEX

one of the men we arrested was an HIV positive postal worker

all sorts of readiness issues there.....

[1stTimeCaller]

wait a minute. That really happened? Would they just walk up and stick their weiners through a hole in the stall?

I guess none of them ever say Porky's nor had heard of Miss Ballbricker!!

[Chuck Bao]

I don't know this situation, jk. But would of a printed noticed on the wall of the restroom that this facility is being monitored be enough to stop the problem?

Or, is is the intent to entrap and snare those really bad gay guys with HIV.

[jk the sooner fan]

wait a minute. That really happened? Would they just walk up and stick their weiners through a hole in the stall?

I guess none of them ever say Porky's nor had heard of Miss Ballbricker!!

no, what they would do is one would sit on the toilet, sometimes for longer than an hour

the second guy would come into the adjoining stall - and one or the other would put his fingers in the gloryhole as a signal

then the other one would put his boy part thru the hole and receive the gift that keeps on giving

[jk the sooner fan]

I don't know this situation, jk. But would of a printed noticed on the wall of the restroom that this facility is being monitored be enough to stop the problem?

Or, is is the intent to entrap and snare those really bad gay guys with HIV.

you're kidding right?

no, the intent was to stop public sex on a military installation

we didnt know the guy had HIV until after

and do you honestly think a posted warning would have worked?

[1stTimeCaller]

that's sick

Chuck, most members of society know that it's not cool to be doing that kind of stuff in public places. Those that don't need to be removed from society for a little while.

[jk the sooner fan]

this was a bathroom next to the post gas station and also next to the buildings the community college

it was listed in a gay magazine as one of the top 10 places in texas to find this type of activity

so yeah, as a military commander .....you want that on your installation? and you want to post it in big letters that they're being watched to draw more attention to it?

puhhleeze........as the Major General said "get that **** off my post"

yes sir.

[Chuck Bao]

Yep, it would.

The fact that the stalls are videotaped is just scary.

Well, I'm scared. I had no idea they could film me taking a poop.

I guess you videotaped the female restroom too. There could be so very hot lesbian action going on between the stalls.

[Chuck Bao]

that's sick

Chuck, most members of society know that it's not cool to be doing that kind of stuff in public places. Those that don't need to be removed from society for a little while.

I agree. I also know that a simple notice would stop the problem.

Where is common sense?

[jk the sooner fan]

no, we did not video the female restroom, we had no information there was criminal activity going on in there

as i said, there was no pooping.....there were no stalls on the doors

the intell we had was that from noon till about 7pm, this kind of activity was all that occurred in there

and the video's proved that to be right.....we didnt turn on the video until noon and turned them off everynite around 730pm

a simple notice would not have done a damn thing

like speed limit signs are so effective.....

[jk the sooner fan]

i can just see it now......the dallas police in an effort to curb drug trafficking is posting signs in the downtown area

"do not sell drugs, you are being watched"

the purpose of law enforcement chuck is to arrest criminals, not shoo them away into another jurisdiction

having sex in a bathroom with no device for privacy is by most statutes - lewd conduct, criminal

[Widescreen]

As to what would happen if this had been a Democrat senator, I can see it going both ways (ba-dump-bump). :D

If it had been a Democrat, he would likely not have been opposing gay rights legislation so he wouldn't be seen as a hypocrite. So this might have been a non-issue. On the other-hand, it could've been seen as a hot-potato and if the senator was from a state with a Democratic governor, it might have been good politics to go ahead and push the guy out.

[Rogue]

Someone say speed limit? :mad:

There's a joke in here somewhere about the fact that JK's the one that knows that Craig's behavior fit the "typical behavior" of guys looking for secks in the men's room?

This story about conducting an undercover sting dealio... :eek:

[Chuck Bao]

Are you kidding? Like a sign that says this area is being video taped is not effective? Nobody, no how, no way uses this restroom ever again. I wouldn't. No, the intent was to catch the bad guys, not to stop this abhorrent behaviour. Just admit it.

[Chuck Bao]

i can just see it now......the dallas police in an effort to curb drug trafficking is posting signs in the downtown area

"do not sell drugs, you are being watched"

the purpose of law enforcement chuck is to arrest criminals, not shoo them away into another jurisdiction

having sex in a bathroom with no device for privacy is by most statutes - lewd conduct, criminal

That's sweet. Gay sex is like drugs. At one time, I would have argued this case. Now, not so much so.

When was this, anyways?

I'm gonna have to wonder about that Republican Senator from Idaho and if he's ever heard of the internet.

[jk the sooner fan]

No, the intent was to catch the bad guys, not to stop this abhorrent behaviour. Just admit it.

two birds with one stone

[Chuck Bao]

That's just bad.

What about one guy just getting off? Surely, you'd arrest him too!

[Frozen Sooner]

Chuck, I think you're misinterpreting what jk was attempting to accomplish and what he's saying.

He's not saying that gay sex is like drugs. If consenting adults engage in homosexual activity in privacy, then jk would have no reason to bust them. He wasn't busting homosexual activity-he was busting lewd and lascivious public behavior, which certainly is worth police time. Had it been women and men in a unisex bathroom, they'd have been obligated to do the same thing.

He also brings up a valid point-the point of law enforcement is to stop the behavior and punish the malefactors. Simply posting a sign just pushes the behavior to another bathroom-it doesn't solve the issue.

There is no expectation of privacy in a public bathroom where the stalls have no door-that argument doesn't fly.

[jk the sooner fan]

That's sweet. Gay sex is like drugs. At one time, I would have argued this case. Now, not so much so.

When was this, anyways?

I'm gonna have to wonder about that Republican Senator from Idaho and if he's ever heard of the internet.

i wasnt comparing the two crimes, just applying the same logic to law enforcement operations

it was in 92-93

[Chuck Bao]

Thank you Mike for that clarification.

My point is that there was a certain time that gay people were forced into seeking sex in public places.

My point is that a simple notice would have completely and effectively stopped this activity.

My point is that some strange people wanted to prosecute rather than eliminate unwanted behaviour.

My point is that video taping of a public restroom can never be condoned.

My point is that there are other avenues now for gay people to meet each other over the internet. Not in a public place that could hurt other people.

My point is 92-93 is a long time ago and bringing AIDS into the discussion is pretty much below the belt.

[critical_phil]

gay sex is like a drug.....



wha???

[StoopTroup]

So aids is no longer an issue with gay sex?

[leavingthezoo]

i misread chucks first point and withdraw my comments.

although... i'm still confused by some of it.

as i am with soliciting sex in a bathroom. that's just icky.

[jk the sooner fan]

T

My point is 92-93 is a long time ago and bringing AIDS into the discussion is pretty much below the belt.

you evidently know very little about the necessity of military readiness

[jk the sooner fan]

Chuck

one of the main priorities of a military commander, especially at the field and flag level, is to make sure that their troops are ready to fight

readiness is the centerpiece of everything the army does........is Private Schmucklenuts ready to go off at a moments notice to fight

or did he contract the HIV because he was engaging in public sex with strangers, and now he's a military liability because he's not deployable, because he requires medical attention that the other soldiers dont

you're putting words and thoughts into my brain that dont exist.....we werent busting them because they had these tendencies, or because we didnt like their lifestyle

we busted them because they broke the law.....this case was dropped into our laps by a master sergeant who walked into the restroom to use it for legitimate purposes and was propositioned for sex

i brought up the AID's to show just how dangerous public sex with strangers can be, not to make light of those inflicted with the disease

[critical_phil]

this thread is retarded, but i'll give Chuck a pass because he lives in Thailand.


in Thailand, a little glory holing in a public restroom is considered pretty tame.

[Chuck Bao]

Okay, my first point is confusing.

I think I was trying to say that 20 years ago that's where the gay people hooked up. They didn't have bars or such as the hotel/motel place in OKC, whatever its name is. Yeah, it's icky, illegal and dangerous. That musta sucked.

What I don't get is why make it into a sting operation. Surely policemen have better things to do than sit in a stall or hold their little wee-wees in a urinal trying to entice someone.

You wanna touch this?

[jk the sooner fan]

20 years ago? but they still do it today, in parks, restrooms, etc....

military installations are no place for that kind of behavior, you can dislike me all you want, i really dont care

we werent sitting in a stall

we had a camera in the wall that transmitted the image to a receiver in the next building where we recorded them

our job was to curb felonious activity on that installation, which is what we did

[jk the sooner fan]

Surely policemen have better things to do


this tells me you know little about law enforcement, which is ok because i know squat about whatever career field you're in

but when somebody comes thru your door and reports a crime, you dont take the position that "we've got better things to do"

we investigated every complaint that came thru the door...

[1stTimeCaller]

especially those missing donut cases!!!

[usmc-sooner]

jeeze jk

you'd think cops have better things to do than enforce the law. By Gawd when I go to a public restroom it should be my God given right as a US citizens watching 2 grown men hump, and blow each other. My eight year old son should have the privilege of watching this as well.

why can't you just put up signs that say don't commit crimes? We all see how well this works with speed limits, neighborhood watches, beer labels.

as a matter of fact I think we should just do away with cops and start using signs, that's it. I'm going to put up signs everywhere that say don't break the law you are being monitored. Yep that ought to do it. Chuck you're a genius you've just figured out how to stop crime.

[Animal Mother]

Check this crazy story from the St. Louis Post Dsipatch. This story will make you say "WTF?"
Anytime an elected official is busted for this kind of behavior, the police are doing their job. He'll play the denial card until someone comes up with some verification. You should hear the sound bite of him chastising Bubba Clinton. He sounds like Liberace.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/26263150D474C4EE8625734800098FDC?OpenDocument


ST. LOUIS — Back in the 1960s, long before a U.S. senator got busted for lewd behavior in an airport bathroom, it was called "the tearoom trade."

But social researchers knew almost nothing about it.

So a young graduate student at Washington University in St. Louis started digging. He spent months hanging out in the public restrooms of St. Louis' Forest Park. He wanted to observe the tearoom trade in action: men who met for brief, anonymous homosexual trysts in public. He wanted to discover what compelled them.

Laud Humphreys' research was pioneering. It shattered stereotypes. It also cost him his job. Advertisement

Humphreys discovered the majority of men visiting "tearooms" were married and generally upstanding citizens. Many did not think of themselves as gay or bisexual. In his groundbreaking 1970 Ph.D dissertation, "Tearoom Trade: Impersonal Sex in Personal Places," Humphreys detailed the trade's constant rituals: shoe-tapping and reaching under the stalls as a covert way to seek out willing partners.

"This is exactly what you find in the case of (U.S. Sen.) Larry Craig," said John Galliher, sociology professor at the University of Missouri-Columbia and co-author of a Humphreys biography.

The parallels between Humphreys' research and the accusations against Craig, the Republican senator from Idaho, are striking. The undercover cop described how the senator tapped his foot in a stall at the Minneapolis airport in June and reached under the divider as an invitation for "lewd conduct." Even the senator's very public "I am not gay" protest earlier this week matches the theme of men whose actions do not match their public identities.

It was as if the Craig case had been plucked from Humphreys' pages, said Wayne Brekhus, another Missouri sociology professor and biography co-author. "Even this dance of nonverbal anonymity, it seems to have been preserved for 35-plus years."

Humphreys, a former Episcopalian priest from Oklahoma, began his research to learn what motivates men to seek quick, impersonal sexual gratification in open areas.

He stationed himself at different Forest Park washrooms — the same small, stone buildings scattered through the park to this day. There was no shortage of research material: He wrote of witnessing 20 sex acts in just one hour while he waited out a thunderstorm at one restroom.

Humphreys noted how the men would use silent signals — call and response foot-tapping and finger-pointing — to seek out willing partners.

Even in the 1960s, police were wise to the game.

"When a homosexual takes a seat in the adjacent commode and starts tapping his foot," Humphreys wrote, "the (police) decoy will tap back."

That is what allegedly happened in Craig's situation.

"At 12:18 hours, Craig tapped his right foot. I recognized this as a signal used by persons wishing to engage in lewd conduct," the airport police sergeant wrote in his report. "Craig tapped his toes several times and moved his foot closer to my foot. I moved my foot up and down slowly."

Craig motioned with his hand under the divider, according to the officer, who then held his police ID by the floor for the senator to see. The senator claimed his intentions were misconstrued: He said he has a "wide stance" during bathroom trips and that he was attempting to pick up a piece of paper.

But the senator pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of disorderly conduct. When the case became public this week, he claimed he was not guilty. Humphreys, who died in 1988, would have been transfixed by the senator's case, his biographers say.

Humphreys conducted in-depth interviews with 100 men. Half of those he interviewed in the bathrooms. The other half he interviewed using clever and controversial methods. He would write down the men's license plate numbers and track them down a year later. He donned a disguise and talked to the men under the pretense of a social health survey. The men presumably never learned they were part of Humphreys' study.

Humphreys found that 54 percent of the men were married and living with their wives. He found 38 percent considered themselves neither bisexual nor homosexual. The men wanted a sexual release that was quick and would not endanger their standing with their family or society. Just 14 percent of the men identified themselves as living-in-the-open homosexuals.

"Most of the people who do these things are actually heterosexual," said Joel Jackson, youth advocacy coordinator for Project Ark, a St. Louis-based AIDS outreach group.

So the tearooms — a slang term of unknown origin — were populated not by gay men, but by supposedly straight men. The idea that a man could identify as a heterosexual while having homosexual sex was shocking. Yet it fit a larger sociological research interest in the diverging roles of a person's identity and actions.

Humphreys coined the term "breastplate of righteousness" to describe men who used the cloak of social and political conservatism to conceal their deviant behavior.

So while some people scoffed when Craig, a socially conservative Republican, claimed at a press conference that he was not gay, some sociologists believed him.

"I think Senator Craig is a hypocrite," Galliher said, "but I don't see him as a gay man."

The senator's case also brought attention to the little-known tearoom trade. Today, websites share ratings and comments on different public places for homosexual sex. There are hundreds listed in the St. Louis area, from restrooms along the highway to big-box stores in Kirkwood to shopping malls in Chesterfield and Frontenac.

But the bathrooms in Forest Park have fallen largely dormant, according to these websites and police.

"Forest Park for a while was a huge problem," said city police spokesman Richard Wilkes. "It took awhile for it to be cleaned up."

And because of the covert nature of the signals used to gauge sexual interest, many people might not even know what is going on. "If you're not looking for it, you might not notice it," Brekhus said.

When Humphreys published his findings, the Washington University chancellor was outraged — he felt Humphreys had committed a felony by witnessing a felony and not reporting it. The school threatened to withhold Humphreys' doctorate. He was forced to leave. He taught briefly at Southern Illinois University Carbondale. He finished his career at Pitzer College in California.

At the time of the tearoom study, Humphreys had a wife and two children. Many people wondered why he was attracted to his area of study.

Years later he provided an answer.

He revealed that he, too, had been living a lie. He was gay.

[usmc-sooner]

I still don't understand why people want to do "it" in the ****ter. I've been to a lot of airports and they all smell so bad you want to hold your breath. Homos and Hetros need to have a little self control and do their business in private not public.

[GrapevineSooner]

i can just see it now......the dallas police in an effort to curb drug trafficking is posting signs in the downtown area

"do not sell drugs, you are being watched"

the purpose of law enforcement chuck is to arrest criminals, not shoo them away into another jurisdiction

having sex in a bathroom with no device for privacy is by most statutes - lewd conduct, criminal

Or the age old joke about how the police in the UK stop crime.

Stop!!!

Or I'll say 'Stop', again!!!

;)