Which Sooner most deserved the Heisman but didn't win it?

[stoopified]

Reading about OU's Heisman Park in the paper this morning got me thinking about this.I can think of several Sooners who should have won over the years and didn't.Among them: Tommy McDonald and Jerry Tubbs in 1956 when the award went to QB Paul Hornung of the might(2-8) Fighting Irish.Either the hard hitting Tubbs who was a crushing blocker on offense and a tackling machine at LB on defense or Mc Donald who was a trple threat halfback on offense and hard nosed defensive back on Wilkinson's smothering D would have been a better choice than the Golden Boy.

Other notewrthy Sooners scorned by the Heisman voters include Mr. Smoke Thru A Keyhole,Joe Washington in 1974(Smoke through a keyhole was one of Switzer's favor descrptions of Little Joe).LeeRoy Selmon 1974-75,the most dominant d-lineman in college football(of that era if not all-time) was IMHO the only defensive player who SHOULD have won the Heisman.Then of course their is the matter of Josh Heupel finshing second to Chris SPANK MY Weinke.Finally there is AD who was punished for being a frosh and we all know how great a HEALTHY AD is.

Of those above I think I would go with Mc Donald,the best player on the best team of 1956 over a great player on a lousy 2-8 ND team.I don't hve the numbers in front of me right now but Tommy has the distinction of having lead OU in four seperate categories offensively.He aws the leader in reciving one season,rushing one season,passing(yeah as a HALFBACK) and scoring.Since they(OU) were forced to cut the size of the media guide by the NCAA I don't have specific seasons ,stats in front of me.Go back about three years ( in an older media guide)you will find this in yearly leader categories.

Since the thread about Sam's statue triggerred a revival of this sunbject I thought I would dig this thread out.

[BillyBall]

Joe Washington

[texashater#1]

um how bout the man the myth the legend, adrian peterson

[NormanPride]

McDonald, definitely. True impact players like that don't happen very often. Little Joe was the best RB you never saw, but Tommy was everything and everywhere.

[trey]

Roy Williams '01

[wishbonesooner]

Josh Huepel

[Collier11]

Roy Williams in 01' was hands down the best college football player that year!!!

[Boomer.....]

AD his freshman season.

[The_Red_Patriot]

Josh Huepel


I will second, third and fourth that.


IMO, much better qb than white

[The Maestro]

If you don't know the story or the stats I don't blame you...but this is no doubt Billy Sims in 1979. Tommy McDonald is a good vote, too. Heupel lost to Weinke who had very gaudy numbers and Josh's last performance was a three INT game in the Big 12 Championship. AD was a great choice, too, but Leinart was no slouch that season for USC.

Billy Sims loss to Charles White was absurd. I was only 8 at the time, but if memory serves me correctly the votes came in way early back in the day. And most people had voted before Billy went for 282 against a then-good Missouri team and then like 250 against Nebraska. I remember something happening to where they started voting later after that season cause Billy got hosed for back to back Heisman's.

[SoonerBOI]

Josh/TRRW

[TheUnnamedSooner]

Bosworth.

[Widescreen]

The fact the TRRW wasn't really considered is a good indication that a defense-only player can never win it. He was the best player in the nation that year but didn't have a realistic chance of winning.

[IronSooner]

If you don't know the story or the stats I don't blame you...but this is no doubt Billy Sims in 1979. Tommy McDonald is a good vote, too. Heupel lost to Weinke who had very gaudy numbers and Josh's last performance was a three INT game in the Big 12 Championship. AD was a great choice, too, but Leinart was no slouch that season for USC.

Billy Sims loss to Charles White was absurd. I was only 8 at the time, but if memory serves me correctly the votes came in way early back in the day. And most people had voted before Billy went for 282 against a then-good Missouri team and then like 250 against Nebraska. I remember something happening to where they started voting later after that season cause Billy got hosed for back to back Heisman's.


That was my first thought. Good call.

[CU Sooner]

Billy should have had a second and Tommy should have won in 56, No question.

[OUmillenium]

All of em!!!!!!!!

1. Billy Sims
2. Josh H

IMO

[usmc-sooner]

Josh Heupel, Bill Sims (sr year), Joe Washington, Jack Mildren

[1sooners1]

Little Joe by a mile in my opinion.

[SoCal]

Greg Pruitt
JR
RB
1971
1,760
196
18
8.98
7
3

[Ardmore_Sooner]

Heupel no doubt.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

LeRoy Selmon

[MI Sooner]

I've only been a Sooner fan since 1996, so I won't comment on any before that.

I think Jason White deserved it in 2004 more than Josh did in 2000. Weren't his stats better in 2004 than 2003, and weren't they better than Lienert's. I know stats aren't everything, but White and Leinert were in similar circumstances (playing for talented teams against BCS competition). Plus, they do the voting before the bowl games, so voters couldn't have factored in TGOWWDNS. I don't think Peterson ever deserved it.

In 2000, I think LT should have gotten it. It's tough to not be influenced by subsequent NFL success, but even then, I didn't think Weinke or Heupel were possibly the most outstanding player in CFB. Just like the year they gave it to Gino Torreta. And there's a difference between being undeseving of the Heisman and failing in the NFL.

Eric Crouch/Jason White = deserving but unsucessful in NFL
Gino Torreta/Troy Smith = undeserving

I think they put too much emphasis on team success. Winning counts for something, but it shouldn't be absolutely necessary. If Randy Moss's team had gone 5-7, he still deserved consideration. So I don't care if Hornung's ND team went 2-8, I just care if he was better or worse that Tommy McDonald.

[Kray]

1) Heupel should have won, obviously.

2) Billy Sims should have had two.

3) Joe Washington is probably my favorite Sooner ever, and did astonishing things on the field. He should have at least been a finalist.

I can't agree about AD in his freshman season; he was not the best player in the country that year. He would have won the thing if not for injuries, though. I would go Selmon before Roy if we were realistic about defensive players. Those who weren't around for the golden age of the Selmons...it was plain unbelievable how the Selmon brothers, and Lee Roy in particular could warp an offensive game plan. Roy could do that too, but if you ask me who the greatest defensive player in OU history is, it's Lee Roy on a pinnacle above everyone else.

[Scott D]

I don't know how you can all be so blind as to not see that Noah Allen deserved the heisman in 2001.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Billy should have had a second and Tommy should have won in 56, No question.Yes on both, and prolly Greg Pruitt in '71.

[Schoonerbeer]

Greg Pruitt. When he was asked how he would describe himself he said: Blow up a baloon and let it go, that's Greg Pruitt!


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!BOOMER SOONER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stoopified]

Roy Williams in 01' was hands down the best college football player that year!!!
I f Roy had made the play on the pass that set up the winning td for osu,I would argue that point.No doubt however Roy was and is a great player.


I agree Billy should have had 2.

[soonerinabilene]

Justin. Fuente.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

Brent. Rawls.

If Coach would have put him in in the third quarter, we would have taken the BCS. No doubt. No doubt in my mind.

[OU Adonis]

I could care less what a player does in the pro's. The heisman award is for the best player in college football. If someone tears it up in college and stinks it up in the pros, they should still be thought of as a heisman winner. Saying that, some people who won the heisman who stunk it up in the pros weren't the best college player when they won it.

[tommieharris91]

Peterson's Freshman season:

339 Att. 1925 Yds 5.68 YPC 15 TD 148.1 Yds/GM

They picked Matt Leinart over this. Statistically, AD was the best player in college football in 2004.

[Scott D]

I don't know how anyone could have overlooked Donta Hickson in 2003. Frickin ESPN conspiracy.

[sooneron]

Joe Washington, nuff said

[devOUt]

Greg Pruitt in '71 or '72. Take your pick.

[AZSOONER]

Josh Huepel
I agree. He did the most with the least and was the best.

[AZSOONER]

Peterson's Freshman season:

339 Att. 1925 Yds 5.68 YPC 15 TD 148.1 Yds/GM

They picked Matt Leinart over this. Statistically, AD was the best player in college football in 2004.
I would have said AD, but he was a freshman, and weather it's right or wrong, freshman don't win the Heisman.

[SteelClip49]

WES SIMS

[crawfish]

Another vote for Heupel. White probably owes his Heisman, in part, to the fact they were making up for not giving it to Heupel.

[flopshotjoe99]

Heupel no doubt. At least he got the last laugh when him & the boys smacked down Weinke's overrated a@@.:cool:

[texashater#1]

[QUOTE= AD was a great choice, too, but Leinart was no slouch that season for USC.[/QUOTE]

yeah but there is no doubt that AD was the best player that year. he didnt get it only cuz he was a freshmen

[texashater#1]

I would have said AD, but he was a freshman, and weather it's right or wrong, freshman don't win the Heisman.


the heisman goes to the best player. AD was the best player that year hands down. and the fact that he was a freshmen should help his case. he played as if he was a junior. and jason white deserved it as well, he owes heupel nothing. Heupel should of won but he didnt and it sucked.

[aurorasooner]

Anyone who doesn't include Joe W. on his list didn't get to watch him play from the stands. Every time we ran the option with him trailing or the opposing team punted, everyone in the stands at Owen Field stood expecting some showtime. He was fun to watch.

[stonecoldsoonerfan]

Little Joe by a mile in my opinion.

wrong. little joe by a dozen miles. ;)

[Zing]

I will second, third and fourth that.


IMO, much better qb than white

10th-ed, 11th-ed, whatever we're up to. Josh Heupel.

[KantoSooner]

Tony Casillas deserves some consideration. Without him, Bosworth is normal at best. With him, that defense ate opponents alive.

[usmc-sooner]

Wayman Tisdale

[MyT Oklahoma]

Jack Mildren in 1971. Even Pat Sullivan of Auburn who won the Heisman that year said after the Sugar Bowl (in which we kicked their ***** 40 to 22 and it really wsn't that close) that Jack deserved it. Jack finished second.
__________________________________________
"This is the voice of the Sooner Football Network."

[TopDawg]

I second whoever said all of 'em.

In fact, if we were ever to make a Heisman Runner-Up Park, I think those players would rank higher on my favorites list than the ones who won the Heisman.

[stoopified]

I second whoever said all of 'em.

In fact, if we were ever to make a Heisman Runner-Up Park, I think those players would rank higher on my favorites list than the ones who won the Heisman.
Personally I wouldn't go that far but I understand your point.My all-time favorite player is Heisman contender Joe Washington.

[CatfishSooner]

Gotta be Heupel!

[TopDawg]

Personally I wouldn't go that far but I understand your point.My all-time favorite player is Heisman contender Joe Washington.

Yeah, Joe is one of my all-time faves so that gives Runner-Up Park an edge. Technically, though, Joe was never a true runner-up (2nd place). Maybe we could call it Heisman Top-5 Park.

The thing that really puts Runner-Up Park over the top is that Simms would also be in that park. So you've got:

Vessels, Owens, Simms, White
v.
Burris, Pruitt, Simms, Heupel, Peterson (for 2nd place winners) and then I guess you could tack on Joe and McDonald.

Did you know...Oklahoma is the only team with 3 defensive players who have finished in the Top 5 of the Heisman voting (Burris, Tubbs, Boz).



By the way...I'm aware that Heisman Runner-Up or Heisman Top 5 Park is a very aggie thing to do, so I'm not condoning the idea...just throwing it around for fun.

[usmc-sooner]

I feel pretty strongly about Heupel deserving the Heisman but Weinke's numbers were pretty ridiculous. How many 30 year olds could do that in college.

[Frozen Sooner]

Every answer that isn't Tommy McDonald is wrong.

McDonald even validated his greatness in the pros, being one of only two Sooners in the NFL Hall of Fame. Not that that has bearing on the Heisman, but he was an AMAZING player. We're talking about a guy who went like a buck fifty and made a career as a tough over-the-middle receiver in the NFL.

[Scott D]

Every answer that isn't PJ Mills is wrong.

;)

[TXBOOMER]

Josh Huepel

DITTO! F texass!

[PLaw]

Greg Pruitt
JR
RB
1971
1,760
196r
18
8.98
7
3

Greg's Sr. season had a slight drop in stats to 5.0 ypc, but he should have won the Heisman over John Capiletti form Penn State. If ever there could have been co-winners, then '71 was the year with Johnny Rogers and Greg. I saw them both play and Rogers just made you hold your breath.

Other notables:
Joe Washington - with Griffin getting two, puhleeeeze.
Tommy McDonald -
Billy '79 - not getting two and watching the wimp from SC take it home. I went TTU and the Tech D knocked White out of the game in the 2nd quarter in Lubbock.
LeRoy Selman - Most dominant player of any era
Josh Huepel - Was as deserving as Wienke.

BOOMER
PLAW

BOOMER
PLaw

[goingoneight]

You talk about stats, but the original Heisman trophy ceremony honored players for being upstanding citizens, great players, winners, great leadership and statistics well... they never hurt you.
If the Heisman wasn't the Hypesman it is today, I'd say more guys like Josh, TRRW, Billy and PT. Yes PT. The same PT who was a better citizen, fighter, leader, winner and athlete than some of the jokes we've seen win it before. The Heisman was not originally rewarded to golden boys or MVPs; rather given to people much like our own Don Key award, just more candidates of course.

[AlbqSooner]

Every answer that isn't Tommy McDonald is wrong.
Paul Hornung has said that McDonald deserved it.

[Soonerfan88]

Most deserving would be Joe Washington.

But also very deserving are Billy's 2nd, Tommy McDonald, Jack Mildren, Greg Pruitt, Josh Heupel and Adrian Peterson. There are too many others to list that never got into the top 5 in voting for various reasons.

However, 1956 is a difficult Heisman year. Without my Sooner bias, it is very hard to just look at stats and determine the winner out of Tommy McDonald, Jim Brown and Johnny Majors. And if you are going by actual "best player" then Hornung definitely belongs in the discussion. He is the only reason ND scored a point or won a game that year - simply a great player on a horrible team.

[okcusooner]

Uh. I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet.

But the same guy who won it in 2003, should have won it in 2004. His numbers were just as impressive.

[wishbonesooner]

Little Joe was the best player in my mind, but Archie Griffin was a great RB for the Buckeyes. Joe was better all around, blocking, receiving, punt returns, and so forth, but Archie was a stud.

[arcman46]

Peterson's Freshman season:

339 Att. 1925 Yds 5.68 YPC 15 TD 148.1 Yds/GM

They picked Matt Leinart over this. Statistically, AD was the best player in college football in 2004.

I've always thought that Leinart should have come in 5th that year, and only won it because of the "perceived injustice" of not making it into the NC game the year before. In terms of production, and worth to the team, he was behind Jason, AD, Bush (best player of team) and Smith of Utah.:pop:

[phead903]

Jack Mildren in 1971. Even Pat Sullivan of Auburn who won the Heisman that year said after the Sugar Bowl (in which we kicked their ***** 40 to 22 and it really wsn't that close) that Jack deserved it. Jack finished second.
__________________________________________
"This is the voice of the Sooner Football Network."-

Exactly - Jack Mildren was the best player in the country that year - he used his arm against Nebraska and almost beat them in TGOTC and absolutely destroyed everyone else with his mastery of the Wishbone after only 19 or 20 games (OU installed it the week before Texas in 1970). The way he would pitch the ball back 15 or 20 yards to Greg Pruitt or Joe Wylie was masterful...

[r5TPsooner]

I thought that Heupel was the best college player during the 99-00 season. He should have won it over Weinke IMHO.

Of course, I could be a homer too.

[josh09]

AD baby, just cuz he was a fish.

[josh09]

I thought that Heupel was the best college player during the 99-00 season. He should have won it over Weinke IMHO.

Of course, I could be a homer too.

Wait, you mean the 00-01 season cuz thats when weinke won it.

[stoopified]

Jerry Tubbs LB-C in 1954 (I think) .

[GKeeper316]

this question is like asking a parent which one of his kids he likes best...


but imo it was josh. when that doosh weinke won... well, i had to re-drywall a part of my living room and buy a new universal remote.

[Mazeppa]

The Boz

[BoulderSooner79]

Archie Griffin cost OU 2 Heismans. He won when little Joe should have in '74. After '75, I believe the Heisman voters decided they made a mistake awarding it twice to the same player and have not done it again. Billy Sims played better in '79 than '78 with a weaker team around him. He should have gotten it twice.

[MichiganSooner]

The most deserving? But the following should have statues in Heisman Park.
LeRoy, Josh, & AD.

[Leroy Lizard]

The Boz

This. (Or Lee Roy Selmon)

[Sooner24]

Little Joe.

[LiveLaughLove]

Hard to say which was MOST deserving.

Tommy McDonald of course
Billys second was a rook job no doubt
Josh, well I simply love him (in a manly sort of way) the most of any Sooner
Greg should have had one
Little Joe was the most electrifying player Ive ever seen (Barry Sanders a close second)
AD was simply awesome as a freshman

Like I said, hard to say. Tommy McDonald probably because of who won it over him. It was a travesty.

[texaspokieokie]

Greg Pruitt in 1971 only 9.35 ypc

heupel

Pruitt was hurt some in 72

[owenfieldreams]

Joe "Smoke through a keyhole" Washington and Tommy McDonald are the top two.

By the way, the description of Joe....."smoke through a keyhole" was not a Switzer quote. It was Darryl Royal who coined that famous description of Lil' Joe.

Our years on probation and not being on tv until the bowl game Joe's senior season cost him dearly. T-Mac was hurt by the fact that we were so deep and talented his senior year, he was simply one of many weapons while Horning was all ND had.

I'd put Mildren on the list as well. The others bare mention but these three stand out.

[texaspokieokie]

washington was on tv in 72 & 73. some

giving the award to the same guy twice cost heisman committee some
credibility.

he didn't deserve it twice. go back & check the numbers
(i'm too lazy)

JMHO

[SoonerDomiNation]

Lil' joe and lil' Q.

[panhandlesooner]

Greg Pruitt 71 & 72

I saw him play against the winners those years....Rodgers was great but Greg had a better overall year...one punt return did it for Rodger! Capallitti ws a horse but couldn't carry Pruitt's jockstrap even in a 72 when he was hurt!

[texaspokieokie]

don't think Pruitt deserved trophy in 72.

[spatton713]

adrian peterson....no contest...but i wasnt old enough back in the day

[JRAM]

GREG PRUITT!!!

[Sooner04]

1. Tommy McDonald - 1956
2. Greg Pruitt - 1971
3. Billy Sims - 1979
4. "Little" Joe Washington - 1974 or 1975

[Soonersince57]

Archie Griffin cost OU 2 Heismans. He won when little Joe should have in '74. After '75, I believe the Heisman voters decided they made a mistake awarding it twice to the same player and have not done it again. Billy Sims played better in '79 than '78 with a weaker team around him. He should have gotten it twice.

I agree completly. Griffin in '75 barely had 1300 yards. :rolleyes:

[Shakadoodoo]

Prentice Gaunt

[CatfishSooner]

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