NAACP - What's the fuss about?

[KABOOKIE]

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- The head of the Atlanta chapter of the NAACP said Wednesday that Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick has made mistakes but that they should not cost him his football career with the NFL.


R.L. White, president of the NAACP's Atlanta chapter, says Wednesday that Vick shouldn't lose his NFL career.

R.L. White, president of the Atlanta chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, said his organization does not condone dogfighting or any other illegal activity, but he told reporters that Vick should be given a chance to redeem himself.

"In some instances, I believe Michael Vick has received more negative press than if he would've killed a human being," White said. "The way he is being persecuted, he wouldn't have been persecuted that much had he killed somebody."

White said he believes Vick will cut a deal rather than roll the dice on a trial and take a chance on being found guilty, but "whatever he's done wrongly, he needs to pay for it.

White also said he didn't understand the uproar over dogfighting, when hunting deer and other animals is perfectly acceptable


Y'alls just bein racist. Redneckers kill them deers all da time. Lemme aks you somethin. Would errbudy be all up in Vick's buiznass had he just kilt somebudy?

[yermom]

let's see... i think there is a precedent about football players on trial for murder... how did that go?

my god i hate the NAACP and their ilk sometimes

[mdklatt]

"In some instances, I believe Michael Vick has received more negative press than if he would've killed a human being," White said.

That's a fact. When there's a story in the news about some poor schlub getting gunned down at a 7-11 nobody bats an eye, but stories about "puppy mills" get the moral outrage flowing and everybody calling about where to send money to help the rescued dogs.

Did the Ray Lewis case generate this much outrage?

[mdklatt]

let's see... i think there is a precedent about football players on trial for murder... how did that go?


I don't think that got people as worked up as this.

[yermom]

i was thinking of OJ

Ray Lewis was more of a manslaughter thing, wasn't it?

[Scott D]

let's see... i think there is a precedent about football players on trial for murder... how did that go?

my god i hate the NAACP and their ilk sometimes

pretty sure Leonard Little walked...as a matter of fact I'm pretty sure he's STILL playing for the Rams.

[jk the sooner fan]

i really wish people would look into the word "persecution" before they use it

[KABOOKIE]

I don't think that got people as worked up as this.


Yeah cuz if Vick had killed somebody it wouldn't have made the weekend news.

[C&CDean]

Sure, I'll say it. Again.

The only reason Vick is getting along as easy as he is is because he's black.

If this were a skoal dipping John Rocker dude the NAACP would be organizing the lynching. I'm not sure there's a bigger racist organization going these days.

[jk the sooner fan]

generally speaking people treat their animals with more care and concern than they will for a neighbor......so yeah, its worse than if he killed a human ;)

[KABOOKIE]

generally speaking people treat their animals with more care and concern than they will for a neighbor......so yeah, its worse than if he killed a human ;)


A more relative comparison would be how do they treat their neighbors animals? ;)

[mdklatt]

i was thinking of OJ

Ray Lewis was more of a manslaughter thing, wasn't it?

I don't remember much about the Ray Lewis thing--which I guess is my point. Maybe OJ's fame off the football field helped fan the flames of that. Still, based on TV news coverage the rankings of things we're supposed care about are:

Missing/murdered pretty rich white girls
Celebrities dying, getting arrested, going to rehab, etc (the more worthless the celebrity, the better)
Animal abuse
Rising gas prices
...
Poor schlubs who get murdered on the job at 7-11

[OUDoc]

True, most dogs are better than most people. The law just doesn't see it that way. (I'm not sure if I'm being somewhat sarcastic or not, actually.)

[yermom]

I don't remember much about the Ray Lewis thing--which I guess is my point. Maybe OJ's fame off the football field helped fan the flames of that. Still, based on TV news coverage the rankings of things we're supposed care about are:

Missing/murdered pretty rich white girls
Celebrities dying, getting arrested, going to rehab, etc (the more worthless the celebrity, the better)
Animal abuse
Rising gas prices
...
Poor schlubs who get murdered on the job at 7-11

i'll agree with that

but i doubt it really mattered what Vick did, he could probably fart and get on the news

[KABOOKIE]

I don't remember much about the Ray Lewis thing--which I guess is my point. Maybe OJ's fame off the football field helped fan the flames of that. Still, based on TV news coverage the rankings of things we're supposed care about are:


Bush sucks.
Global Warming.
Missing/murdered pretty rich white girls
Celebrities dying, getting arrested, going to rehab, etc (the more worthless the celebrity, the better)
Animal abuse
Rising gas prices
...
Poor schlubs who get murdered on the job at 7-11

There we go.

[mdklatt]

but i doubt it really mattered what Vick did, he could probably fart and get on the news

If somebody had died in the vicinity of Vick at a nightclub--the most common MO for pro athlete-related murders--this would be mainly a sports story. Do you kick him off the team before he goes to trial, etc. I don't know, it just seems like we have our priorities messed up sometimes.

[TMcGee86]

It's not like he's on trial for shooting a dog.

I venture to guess that most of America is not upset most about the actual killing of an animal.

It's the whole part about where you have to tourture these animals in order to get them mean enough to fight each other to the death while you and your buddies sit back laughing at what you created just so you can watch the fight and bet on which one will win. Oh and then to top it off you go and kill the loser if he was unlucky enough to survive the fight he lost, because you failed to train him well enough.


I need the NAACP to remind me again which part of that scenario resembles deer hunting, cause I aint seeing it.

[Taxman71]

Don't forget the whole Vick thing has basically happened during the dog days of summer sports where there is nothing but regular season MLB to follow. If this occurred in Jan, Feb or March, it would have gotten 1/4 of the press.

[SoonerBBall]

Did the Ray Lewis case generate this much outrage?

I'm still mad as hell about the Ray Lewis case. He is a murderer, plain and simple, and it is sickening that he is still in the NFL. Hell, it is even more sickening that he isn't spending the rest of his life in jail. Same goes for OJ, that murdering ****.

[Scott D]

For what? Ray Lewis wasn't up on murder or manslaughter charges. He was charged with obstruction of justice.

It saddens me how you people (jk excluded) who give Leonard (All I got was a citation for drunk driving, forget the woman I killed while doing it) Little a pass.

[C&CDean]

Dude, I've never even heard of Leonard Little.

[jk the sooner fan]

in fairness to many, the leonard little story didnt get NEAR the press coverage that mike vick has......

which is a shame because its been swept under the rug a bit and shouldnt have been

[C&CDean]

So WTF is the "leonard little story?"

[jk the sooner fan]

i dont know all the details, scott might be able to tell it better, but he killed somebody while driving drunk, and then afterwards had another drunk driving incident

the NFL did absolutely nothing

thats a shaky recount of the story at best

[Scott D]

So WTF is the "leonard little story?"


After a drunken birthday in 1998, NFL star Leonard Little crashed into and killed another motorist. When tested, his blood alcohol level measured 0.19 percent. Little received 60 days and 1000 hours of community service. Six years later, after the involuntary manslaughter conviction was wiped from his record, Little was again arrested for drunk driving.

NFL didn't do squat, guy didn't miss a workout.

[RacerX]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Little

Leonard Antonio Little (born October 19 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_19), 1974 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974) in Asheville, North Carolina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asheville%2C_North_Carolina)) is an American football (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_football) Defensive End (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_End) who currently plays for the St. Louis Rams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis_Rams) of the NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL). He attended the University of Tennessee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Tennessee).
After a drunken birthday in 1998 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998), NFL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL) star Leonard Little crashed into and killed another motorist, Susan Gutweiler. When tested, his blood alcohol level (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_level) measured 0.19 percent. Little received 90 days in jail, four years probation and 1000 hours of community service (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_service).
Six years later, Little was again arrested for drunk driving (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunk_driving) and speeding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speeding). Little was acquitted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquitted) of driving while intoxicated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_intoxicated), but was convicted of the misdemeanor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misdemeanor) speeding charge.[1] (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/rams/2005-05-06-little-probation_x.htm)
On Week 11 of the 2006 NFL season (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_NFL_season), Little signed a 3-year extension with the Rams.

[C&CDean]

NFL didn't do squat, guy didn't miss a workout.

Was/is he a brother?

[jk the sooner fan]

yep, he is

[Scott D]

oh, and not to mention 16 months AFTER his "involuntary manslaughter" he played in the ****ing Super Bowl.

[C&CDean]

Would he have gotten off so easy if he were a cracker?

[RacerX]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/thenetwork/news/2000/01/27/cnnsicomprofile_little/

Deadly reminder
Rams linebacker Little coping with fatal past

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/images/misc/bullet_sm.gifClick here for more on this story (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/thenetwork/news/2000/01/27/cnnsicomprofile_little/#more) Posted: Friday January 28, 2000 11:06 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/thenetwork/news/2000/01/27/cnnsicomprofile_little/t1_little.jpg (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/thenetwork/news/2000/01/27/cnnsicomprofile_little/) Leonard Little says his sentence, 90-days in a work house and 1000 hours of community service, has been difficult to handle. CNNSI.com By Josie Karp, CNNSI.com
ATLANTA (CNNSI.com) -- Prior to the first-half kickoff, No. 57 gets lost surrounded by his teammates. He's just another bobbing head getting ready to explode with pregame anticipation. For a moment, he's Leonard Little, football player and not Leonard Little, drunken driver.

"Some people meet me sometimes and they sit down and talk to me for a while and ask me my name and say, 'Oh, you're the guy,'" Little says.
Little's the one who celebrated his 24th birthday at a St. Louis bar in October of 1998. He's the one who got behind the wheel of his Lincoln Navigator legally drunk. He's the one who ran a red light at a downtown intersection. He's the one who plowed into a much smaller car. He's the one who ended the life of Susan Gutweiler.

"I think about it all the time," Little said. "I mean every day I wake up in the morning I think about it. It's always in the back of my mind no matter if you're at the Super Bowl or anything bigger than that. It's always there and I always think about it."

Because he's alive to do that, Little is the lucky one.
In a St. Louis cemetery, Susan Gutweiler rests beside a daughter who was killed in a car accident 20 years ago. Gutweiler, who was 47 at the time of the accident, left behind a husband and a teenage son.
Their pain, Little can only imagine.

"It's hard to put yourself in that situation." he said. "It's hard and I try to put myself in the situation whereas if something happened to my mom like that and it would be a hard situation to cope with."
Ninety nights of shock time, to be spent in this St. Louis work house, comprise part of the sentence Little received after pleading guilty to involuntary manslaughter last June. He's completed about a third of that to date and part of 1,000 hours of community service a judge also ordered him to perform. If he finishes both, after four years of probation, his record will be cleared, leaving no legal trace of so many shattered lives.

"It's hard because I've never been in trouble," Little says. "Not a problem kid or anything like that so when you're in the legal system like that, it's always hard on a person for the first time to go through some things like that."
Little's back playing football after the NFL suspended him for eight games as punishment for his actions. Bill Gutweiler, Susan's husband, is also back on the sidelines. As an assistant to a Sports Illustrated photographer, he was at the TWA Dome for the NFC Championship game. Little never encountered him there and would not have known what to say if he had.

"That's a hard question. I just, that's a really hard question," he says pausing as he speaks. I mean, hopefully him and me can sit down and get some things resolved."

With Little getting ready for the Super Bowl far away from a tragedy that's marked in stone back in St. Louis, that may be too much to ask.

[Scott D]

Probably, St. Louis bends over backwards for pro athletes.

[r5TPsooner]

Sure, I'll say it. Again.

The only reason Vick is getting along as easy as he is is because he's black.

If this were a skoal dipping John Rocker dude the NAACP would be organizing the lynching. I'm not sure there's a bigger racist organization going these days.


Werd! Unless you're excluding Al Sharpton & Jesse Jackson from the AARCP. Both are as racist as they come.

[jk the sooner fan]

Would he have gotten off so easy if he were a cracker?

i dunno, i think it had more to do with the fact he was in the NFL than anything

[RacerX]

Cook: Little's misdeed causes man a lot of pain

Sunday, May 02, 2004
By Ron Cook, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Bill Gutweiler thought it was pretty bad when he had to watch Leonard Little play in Super Bowl XXXIV in 2000 for the St. Louis Rams, not even 16 months after Little had run a red light while driving drunk and killed Gutweiler's wife, Sue.

Gutweiler thought it was awful when he heard about Little's five-year, $17.5 million contract extension with the Rams after the 2001 season. The man should have been in jail, shouldn't he? "He got lucky with a bleeding heart liberal judge who believed he deserved a second chance," Gutweiler said. You should have heard him spit those words out. Where was his wife's second chance?

Gutweiler thought it couldn't get any worse than when Little, a defensive end, made the Pro Bowl last season. Everywhere he looked in St. Louis, it seemed as if some kid was wearing Little's No. 91 jersey. He kept asking himself: What are those parents thinking? Are they really happy with that kind of role model for their child?

But it did get worse for Gutweiler.

It got much worse last weekend when Little was pulled over for speeding in suburban St. Louis and arrested for suspicion of drunk driving. According to police reports, he had "bloodshot, watery eyes and emitted an odor of alcohol ... attempted and failed three sobriety tests ... admitted to drinking alcoholic beverages."

"I'm just glad he didn't kill someone else this time," Gutweiler said.

Gutweiler, a truck driver, and his son, Mike, 21, an art student at Columbia College in Chicago, spent all week reliving the horrible accident that took Sue Gutweiler's life at 47 on Oct. 19, 1998. But you know what? That's never going away. They'll keep reliving it one way or another every day for the rest of their lives.

The tough part for the Gutweilers was seeing Little's lawyer, Scott Rosenblum, on television trying to portray Little as a shy, caring person. According to Bill Gutweiler, Rosenblum looked right into the cameras and said Little still stops by his office and cries when he thinks about his role in Sue Gutweiler's death.

"If he wants to see crying, he should stop by my house some time," Gutweiler said.

It didn't help the Gutweilers that the Rams came out publicly in support of Little. They will allow his case to work its way through the judicial system. Rams coach Mike Martz said Little will plead not guilty. Until then, Little is welcome and expected at the team's minicamp May 21-23.

"The portrayal of Leonard as being insensitive and unremorseful has not been my observation or that of our coaches and players," Martz said in statement.

That prompted Gutweiler to say: "I'm tired of hearing what a swell guy this is. I'll tell you how remorseful he is. He never even tried to contact my family. Even if he had written a letter to my son -- actually written it himself instead of having a lawyer coach him or someone else write it -- it would have meant a lot."

It's understandable if Gutweiler doesn't have much faith in the legal system. After Little pleaded guilty of involuntary manslaughter in June 1999, he was sentenced to 90 nights in jail as part of a work-release program, 1,000 hours of community service and four years of probation. Gutweiler isn't the only one who thinks his wife's life should have been worth a little more.
After Little's arrest early last Saturday, Rosenblum argued the incident should be treated as a misdemeanor. He quickly pointed out Little had paid his debt to society and told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that Little's manslaughter conviction "is gone from his record."

"I'd like to see him try to tell my son that what happened to his mother never happened," Gutweiler said.

At least there's hope Little will get his due if he's found guilty. Because of a Missouri law that went into effect in 2001, prosecutors were able to charge Little with a felony last week as a persistent drunk driver. If convicted, he could face up to four years in prison.

The NFL also will have its say with Little if he's found guilty. It suspended him for eight games of the 1999 season after his manslaughter conviction because he violated its substance-abuse policy. The suspension could be one year or more this time.

Gutweiler isn't holding his breath over any of it.

"To tell you the truth, I'd be happy if the Rams traded the guy and got him out of St. Louis. They need to say, 'We've had enough of him. Now, it's someone else's turn.' "

Little had 12 1/2 sacks last season. His 39 sacks since the beginning of the
2001 season are the third most in the NFL during that period.

"Do I really think the Rams will trade him? Of course, I don't," Gutweiler said.
"You know how it's going to go. The first time he creams some quarterback this fall, everyone will forget about what he's done off the field. They'll be cheering him like a hero."

That's one thing you can't blame on Little.
That's the fans' fault.

[Scott D]

Would he have gotten off so easy if he were a cracker?

Plus we can go on another tangent with this.

In 2003 in England a prominent soccer player got drunk at a party and plowed his Benz into another car killing the two occupants, HE got a prison sentence of 4 years for his manslaughter charge. He was dropped by his employing team minutes after the guilty verdict was given, and managed to get himself a contract in his final days in prison to play for a team THIS year.

[Beef]

The NFL and it's tolerance of bad behavior has changed a lot in the last 10 years. The Leonard Little story wasn't made out to be a big deal bc the NFL didn't do anything to him. I think if a player did that now, they would be looking at a VERY significant suspension and everyone would know about this story. It's just a different climate and commissioner.

[SoonerBOI]

Bunch of baloney. I was listening to Boortz this morning when they played a portion of the press con. I nearly puked.

[Scott D]

The NFL and it's tolerance of bad behavior has changed a lot in the last 10 years. The Leonard Little story wasn't made out to be a big deal bc the NFL didn't do anything to him. I think if a player did that now, they would be looking at a VERY significant suspension and everyone would know about this story. It's just a different climate and commissioner.

eh I dunno if I buy that...it wasn't that long after the Rae Carruth saga. It's easier to sweep a drunk driver under the rug in comparison to a guy who is in on a plot to kill his girlfriend and child.

[jk the sooner fan]

how much more power did the players union have back then? Little wasnt sent to prison was he? seems to me the NFL probably turned their back because the justice system failed to deal with it appropriately

[soonerscuba]

The NAACP, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and the vast majority of unified racial movements need to shut the hell up.

I'm about as liberal as they come and I don't feel guilty for anything and neither should anybody else. These organizations and people judge people on the color of their skin and not the content of their character, sorry, but these days they're about a half step up from the KKK.

Also, Michael Vick is a terrible, cruel, and disgusting individual in that he tortures living creatures for entertainment. I hope he plays in the NFL again so I can watch 80,000 try to destroy the profile of a man that so richly deserves such a fate.

[Taxman71]

Yeah, it is pretty hard to defend Vick on just about anything right now. He has been treated better than anyone could have hoped at this point with even the NFL, Nike and the Falcons being cautious. Considering the investment made in him, they have a right to be extremely pi$$ed.

And I am tired of the whole "Vick hanging out with the bad crowd" argument. How do we know that Vick wasn't himself the "bad crowd"? Just because he was the famous one with the money doesn't mean he was any less ruthless (see OJ). His friends might have been dragged into the deal by Vick. We just don't know right now. Either way, a 27 year old with his life should have known better.

[Harry Beanbag]

Aside from Peyton Manning, Vick is arguably the most well known NFL player today. If Lebron James was about to go to prison for multiple years in the prime of his career I think that would probably be a pretty big deal as well. Many people, even huge football fans, have never heard of Leonard Little (:dean:).

Vick was also charged with federal crimes, which is obviously a bigger deal and will get more publicity than a state level offense. The Feds don't **** around and don't waste much time resolving cases either. Anybody claiming that there wouldn't be as much publicity if he murdered a human is deranged.

As far as the NAACP goes, I'm sure Vick wil get a chance to resume his playing career after his prison term and NFL suspension have been served. But it is a job and a privilege to play in the League, not a right, even if you are black, so there is no guarantee that a team will hire him again after 2-3 years away from the game.

[TMcGee86]

another way to look at it is, if Vick had killed someone, there isn't exactly going to be a huge contingent of people looking to stick up for him or argue that it wasn't a big deal.

It would be more like, "wow, what an idiot" and then a week later we would have moved on and probably forgotten all about him.

But with this, it's something that the public is unfamiliar with, it's probably the first big dog fighting story, so we dont really know how to react nor how to punish it properly, which leads to much more discussion on it.

And, like it or not, it has just enough uniqueness to it to allow ignorant morans to defend it.

So it stays in the headlines and people make a bigger deal about it on both sides. Half say he should fry, the other half say he should walk free.

[Ike]

Aside from Peyton Manning, Vick is arguably the most well known NFL player today. If Lebron James was about to go to prison for multiple years in the prime of his career I think that would probably be a pretty big deal as well. Many people, even huge football fans, have never heard of Leonard Little (:dean:).

Vick was also charged with federal crimes, which is obviously a bigger deal and will get more publicity than a state level offense. The Feds don't **** around and don't waste much time resolving cases either. Anybody claiming that there wouldn't be as much publicity if he murdered a human is deranged.

As far as the NAACP goes, I'm sure Vick wil get a chance to resume his playing career after his prison term and NFL suspension have been served. But it is a job and a privilege to play in the League, not a right, even if you are black, so there is no guarantee that a team will hire him again after 2-3 years away from the game.


Part of me would like to see him go back to the NFL after he serves his term. Not because I like the guy, and certainly not because of any "out of the goodness of my heart" kind of feeling, like some people have. No, I'd like to see him step on a field and be forced to listen to 50,000 boos for the entire game...even at home. Make a great play, get booed by your own fans. Sign a football for a kid, watch that kid give that football to his dog as a chew toy. I'd wanna see that. Hell, I might even pay to see that.


But then I remember that there are a lot of fans that are dumber than ****, and that it probably wouldn't happen at all...

Which is why the other part of me doesn't give a flip what happens to him.

[Scott D]

how much more power did the players union have back then? Little wasnt sent to prison was he? seems to me the NFL probably turned their back because the justice system failed to deal with it appropriately

they don't have less power now....the players association went to the commissioner wanting him to clean things up. Little was sentenced to 90 nights in jail, 1000 hours of community service, and 4 years probation. However I doubt he actually served most if all of the jail time. The NFL only suspended him for whatever number violation of the league's substance abuse policy for it.

[jk the sooner fan]

ok so i'm easily amused, but the president of the Atlanta Chapter of the NAACP is Reverand R.L. WHITE

sorry but that makes me chuckle

[Okieflyer]

You can forgive, always, but when a person makes excuses or tries to justify it, it just doesn't work. Making a dumb mistake is one thing, but this really shows what a bad guy he (Vick) is.

I know many, and I am one, who could have been in the wrong place because of dumb things they had done. But to compare this to deer hunting is so absurd it's crazy. But that goes under trying to justify bad behaviour.

[CatfishSooner]

ok so i'm easily amused, but the president of the Atlanta Chapter of the NAACP is Reverand R.L. WHITE

sorry but that makes me chuckle


Haha I was about to post that! I thought that was funny as well... :D

[Will]

hahaha

[Rogue]

Here's a big difference....hunting deer is legal if done properly. Fighting dogs is illegal.

MV is a thug. His little brother is a thug. We are historically very forgiving of thugs who can run fast, hit hard, swim, pedal, row, throw, catch, pass, pitch, or dive...regardless of their color. Same with those who can win elections. We skewer them in day to day affairs and keep hiring them. Nice fuggin' planet we've got going on here!

[yermom]

Part of me would like to see him go back to the NFL after he serves his term. Not because I like the guy, and certainly not because of any "out of the goodness of my heart" kind of feeling, like some people have. No, I'd like to see him step on a field and be forced to listen to 50,000 boos for the entire game...even at home. Make a great play, get booed by your own fans. Sign a football for a kid, watch that kid give that football to his dog as a chew toy. I'd wanna see that. Hell, I might even pay to see that.


But then I remember that there are a lot of fans that are dumber than ****, and that it probably wouldn't happen at all...

Which is why the other part of me doesn't give a flip what happens to him.

he's overhyped as it is. has he even won a playoff game?