OSU Kiddie Rape

[redshield3]

I was surprised that there wasn't more buzz about this out there...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/big12/2007-07-25-oklastate-collins_N.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/22/sports/ncaafootball/22collins.html?ex=1342756800&en=7d06230420f9316a&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
(http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/22/sports/ncaafootball/22collins.html?ex=1342756800&en=7d06230420f9316a&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)
From the NY Times article:

In May 2004, Collins and another man were arrested and charged with sexually assaulting an intoxicated 12-year-old girl at a hotel in Texarkana, Tex., during an after-prom party. Two other men were charged in December 2005. Collins pleaded not guilty in March, after being indicted by a grand jury in December 2004.

Lockhart said that Collins confessed to the police that he had sex with the girl. Lockhart added that the girl said she did not consent.

So the kid is already looking at a 100% statutory rape conviction, right?

And they offered him a scholarship knowing this? Where do you draw the line?

I swear to God, if I hear another Aggy Liter call us a bunch of cheaters, I'm going to call them a bunch of kiddie rapists...

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Because we unlike Aggies don't google search OsU daily looking for rumor, innuendo, or negative Sooner stories. We, unlike OsU fans, do not delight in the failure of 17 to 23 year old players.

[freshchris05]

Because we unlike Aggies don't google search OsU daily looking for rumor, innuendo, or negative Sooner stories. We, unlike OsU fans, do not delight in the failure of 17 to 23 year old players.


BuRN!!

I know what you mean, i get tired of all the oSu and orangepower threads... we've already established they are sheep f*cking, under-achieving hypocrits so why should we focus on them? Why do you need to smack talk an aggot? Until they can consistantly beat us, don't pay attention to them... Even if they could get a 3-PETE!!!:stunned: it'll take alot more of those till they can sniff our jock...

[TexasLidig8r]

We offered this kid a scholarship... when all this came to light, we dropped the offer so fast in made the kid's head spin... and, OSU wasted no time in stepping to the plate.

[Ash]

We offered this kid a scholarship... when all this came to light, we dropped the offer so fast in made the kid's head spin... and, OSU wasted no time in stepping to the plate.

Considering one of your former players was wanted by the cops for a similar charge while at your school...

[OSUAggie]

We offered this kid a scholarship... when all this came to light, we dropped the offer so fast in made the kid's head spin... and, OSU wasted no time in stepping to the plate.

You take what you can get...

Is it normal for trials to drag out for half a decade in backward-*** east Texas?

[Paperclip]

Considering one of your former players was wanted by the cops for a similar charge while at your school...

No kidding. That situation still stinks. Cops couldn't find him. Please.

[TexasLidig8r]

Considering one of your former players was wanted by the cops for a similar charge while at your school...

Sure looks like they didn't look too hard for him. Perhaps they should have checked at local car dealerships. :rolleyes:

[Paperclip]

Sure looks like they didn't look too hard for him. Perhaps they should have checked at local car dealerships. :rolleyes:

Yeah, that's the same thing.

[Ash]

Sure looks like they didn't look too hard for him. Perhaps they should have checked at local car dealerships. :rolleyes:

Wow. Weak sauce, Lid. I was expecting some kind of pseudo-legal mumbo jumbo in your comeback.

All they had to do was go to Mack's practice, not only would they have found him but also about a half dozen other felons.

Isn't it time for your pre-lunch ras-tini?

[achiro]

You take what you can get...
Did you seriously just say that? Wow! If the majority fanbase agrees with you...just wow! "We don't care what kind of horrible things our players have done as long as they can run fast":mad:

[picasso]

Sure looks like they didn't look too hard for him. Perhaps they should have checked at local car dealerships. :rolleyes:
go chase an ambulance.

[85sooners]

:D

[TexasLidig8r]

Wow. Weak sauce, Lid. I was expecting some kind of pseudo-legal mumbo jumbo in your comeback.

All they had to do was go to Mack's practice, not only would they have found him but also about a half dozen other felons.

Isn't it time for your pre-lunch ras-tini?

You were comparing apples and turnips Homeslice.

Martin's acts occurred long before he enrolled at UT. The arrest warrant did not come until after he had left UT, seven years after the date of the alleged incident. If the coppers had truly been looking for him, he would not have been too hard to find. (perhaps this is an indictment more of police competency).

As for the "half dozen" other felons.. care to illuminate who those are? Or, did you just go texag-ish on us and just throw things out there to see if it sticks?

[OSUAggie]

Did you seriously just say that? Wow! If the majority fanbase agrees with you...just wow! "We don't care what kind of horrible things our players have done as long as they can run fast":mad:

For the record, at the time he is considered innocent.

The fanbase is pretty split on whether or not he should be playing for OSU right now.

"You take what you can get" is in reference to OSU currently being in a position that taking a chance on a guy like Collins is worth the risk (in my mind). He is a difference-maker on the field at a key position. If Gundy felt like taking a risk on him was worth it, that's fine with me. OSU isn't in a position like Texas or you guys or whatever where big-time prospects can be tossed aside because of allegations since another stud can be found quite easily.

If Collins is found guilty, then it will obviously be a ton of bad press and the risk will not have paid off. If he is acquitted, it is a good thing that Gundy gave him an opportunity to advance his life with this **** hanging over his head.

Collins hasn't been found guilty of anything, so it's not like we're taking in a kid with multiple felonies, or anything as ""We don't care what kind of horrible things our players have done as long as they can run fast"" appears to suggest. If he was a convicted felon, I would feel differently.

[redshield3]

For the record, at the time he is considered innocent.



Collins hasn't been found guilty of anything, so it's not like we're taking in a kid with multiple felonies, or anything as ""We don't care what kind of horrible things our players have done as long as they can run fast"" appears to suggest. If he was a convicted felon, I would feel differently.

He'd admitted to sleeping with the girl... he's pled not guilty to the forcible rape charge. He's guaranteed a statutory charge as a result, as the girl was 12 and the age of consent is 14.

[freshchris05]

Who does that?, i mean I might be wrong for saying this but, uh seriously how hard is it to get laid being a high school football star... especially after prom... sh*t after prom panties drop faster than charges against politicians...

[OSUAggie]

He'd admitted to sleeping with the girl... he's pled not guilty to the forcible rape charge. He's guaranteed a statutory charge as a result, as the girl was 12 and the age of consent is 14.

There are conflicting reports about that.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

12 is that point where you can't say...I thought she was 21!

[redshield3]

There are conflicting reports about that.
I'd say it's a safe assumption the prosecuting DA on the case wouldn't lie to the New York Times. I'd wager that the only conflicting reports are coming out of the delusional minds of the faithful...

[OSUAggie]

I'd say it's a safe assumption the prosecuting DA on the case wouldn't lie to the New York Times. I'd wager that the only conflicting reports are coming out of the delusional minds of the faithful...

mmk

If this is such a "slam dunk" case (as you suggest), why has it taken so long? This incident happened over 3 years ago and the trial hasn't even started... There are allegations of tampering with the evidence, racial motive, etc... Do we vilify the people of Texarkana for handling the situation the way they have in the same manner as so many people are vilifying the defendants?

[Paperclip]

Martin's acts occurred long before he enrolled at UT. The arrest warrant did not come until after he had left UT, seven years after the date of the alleged incident. If the coppers had truly been looking for him, he would not have been too hard to find. (perhaps this is an indictment more of police competency).



Oh really?


Dallas police arrested a former UT football player on a charge of sexually assaulting a six-year-old boy.

Marco Martin was a defense tackle on the Longhorns' championship team last year. He turned himself in Thursday morning.

The alleged assault happened in 1999. Detectives say the victim came forward last year, but officers were unable to track Martin down.

Martin was also part of the Mesquite High School State Championship team in 2001. He wore #48 as a defensive tackle for the team.

Martin's bond is set at $25,000.

[JohnnyMack]

mmk

If this is such a "slam dunk" case (as you suggest), why has it taken so long? This incident happened over 3 years ago and the trial hasn't even started... There are allegations of tampering with the evidence, racial motive, etc... Do we vilify the people of Texarkana for handling the situation the way they have in the same manner as so many people are vilifying the defendants?

A black guy claiming racial motive when he's charged with a crime? Shocker.

[freshchris05]

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k213/OklahomaRocket/texasband.jpg

[redshield3]

Did you even bother reading the two articles?

The article spells out that, and I quote:

It was delayed because of the prosecution’s concern for the girl’s well-being and while DNA testing was conducted, he [District Attorney Lockhart] said.

[freshchris05]

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k213/OklahomaRocket/racist.gif

[freshchris05]

haha i dunno who's photobucket that is but haha thanks...

[RacerX]

12 is that point where you can't say...I thought she was 21!

Dyslexia is not a defense!

[JohnnyMack]

Dyslexia is not a defense!

Didn't you hear? He hired Dexter Manley as his attorney.

[OSUAggie]

A black guy claiming racial motive when he's charged with a crime? Shocker.

A group of white people being racist in the South? Shocker.

[zeke]

go chase an ambulance.

:D :D :D

[OSUAggie]

Did you even bother reading the two articles?

The article spells out that, and I quote:

It was delayed because of the prosecution’s concern for the girl’s well-being and while DNA testing was conducted, he [District Attorney Lockhart] said.

Yah, the girl (who shortly after the alleged incident moved to NW Arkansas) was really in a lot of trouble. And I forgot it takes 3 years to get DNA tests done. That's such a bull**** statement.

[usmc-sooner]

A group of white people being racist in the South? Shocker.

cause everyone knows you got to be a racist if you call BS on a black man having sex with a 12 year old child.

What color is the sky in your fu^&ing world.

[soonerloyal]

Serious allegations against players are very troubling, especially when the investigation involves such a young victim. But as was stated earlier, we operate on the premise of innocent until/unless proven guilty.

I don't ever want to get to a point where I revel in tragedy - no matter who or what college team is involved, for Gawd's sake.

Must be a "mama" thing.

[JohnnyMack]

A group of white people being racist in the South? Shocker.

He just looking to plant the seed of reasonable doubt. Just another manipulation of our justice system. Regardless of the circumstances surrounding the case, all he or his attorneys have to do is cry "racism" and the worm turns.

[OSUAggie]

cause everyone knows you got to be a racist if you call BS on a black man having sex with a 12 year old child.

What color is the sky in your fu^&ing world.

So a 17-year-old is a man, but a 12-year-old (claiming to be 15) is a child? People are so quick to lynch anybody accused of a crime without letting the legal system take its course. Those Duke guys were real pieces of ****, too, weren't they?

[OSUAggie]

He just looking to plant the seed of reasonable doubt. Just another manipulation of our justice system. Regardless of the circumstances surrounding the case, all he or his attorneys have to do is cry "racism" and the worm turns.

He hasn't said a damn thing. People in Texarkana are making the claims.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Yes a 12 year old is a child....you can't use the I thought she was 15 defense because what is to stop every 30 year old pervert from using that same line. The guy admitted that he did IT...did the Duke guys ever do that?

[SteelClip49]

very interesting topic that will be CLOSED I am predicting and if not should be moved to SO.

[usmc-sooner]

So a 17-year-old is a man, but a 12-year-old (claiming to be 15) is a child?

yep

[Scott D]

So a 17-year-old is a man, but a 12-year-old (claiming to be 15) is a child?

yes


Those Duke guys were real pieces of ****, too, weren't they?

No, just Finnerty is, and he'll eventually end up in Cell Block C playing first flute for Bubba and the Gang.

[OSUAggie]

All right.

It's fairly obvious that the lynching nature of America is on full display here, so I'll back down.

[JohnnyMack]

He hasn't said a damn thing. People in Texarkana are making the claims.

Link?

orangepower.com doesn't count either.

[Scott D]

All right.

It's fairly obvious that the lynching nature of America is on full display here, so I'll back down.

What lynching nature? If you ever happen onto being the father of a daughter, you'd find that your view of teenage males pretty much lends itself to "they should all be gelded at birth". Especially as she begins her journey into puberty/teenage years.

Besides, If a girl looks 16 and says she's 16, she's 12. If she looks 26 and says she's 26, she's damn near 40.

[OSUAggie]

Link?

orangepower.com doesn't count either.

How about the original Times article linked in this thread (page 2)? Does that count?

Benjamin Dennis, president of the N.A.A.C.P. in Texarkana — whose population is roughly 60 percent white and 37 percent black — said that some of the city’s black residents were concerned about the handling of the case, particularly the delay in trying the four men.

“If they were guilty, then the evidence should have been presented in a timely fashion,” he said. “They should have been tried, and if convicted, sentenced. Justice should have been administered at least.”

[OSUAggie]

What lynching nature? If you ever happen onto being the father of a daughter, you'd find that your view of teenage males pretty much lends itself to "they should all be gelded at birth". Especially as she begins her journey into puberty/teenage years.

Besides, If a girl looks 16 and says she's 16, she's 12. If she looks 26 and says she's 26, she's damn near 40.

I'm sure my view of teenage males would be completely different if I had a daughter appraoching that age. On the same note, I probably wouldn't have my daughter living with her grandparents. And I probably would teach her a bit better than to go with her 15-year-old friend to a ****ing after-prom party at 2 AM.

Are drunk 17-year-olds supposed to ask for a birth certificate for a willing girl to submit to their wishes before engaging in sexual acts with said girl if she appears to be of age and she's at an after-prom party?

[Boomer.....]

Besides, If a girl looks 16 and says she's 16, she's 12. If she looks 26 and says she's 26, she's damn near 40.
Theres absolutely positively no sex in the champagne room

[Scott D]

I'm sure my view of teenage males would be completely different if I had a daughter appraoching that age. On the same note, I probably wouldn't have my daughter living with her grandparents. And I probably would teach her a bit better than to go with her 15-year-old friend to a ****ing after-prom party at 2 AM.

Are drunk 17-year-olds supposed to ask for a birth certificate for a willing girl to submit to their wishes before engaging in sexual acts with said girl if she appears to be of age and she's at an after-prom party?

1. Just because you teach em don't mean they won't try to sneak out to one.
2. Drunk 17 year olds are suppossed to have sex with a girl they know attends their high school or another high school and happens to be at the party.

My friends and I were protective of a girl that developed early and had guys in the military after her. She was 11 ****ing years old.

[usmc-sooner]

I'm sure my view of teenage males would be completely different if I had a daughter appraoching that age. On the same note, I probably wouldn't have my daughter living with her grandparents. And I probably would teach her a bit better than to go with her 15-year-old friend to a ****ing after-prom party at 2 AM.

Are drunk 17-year-olds supposed to ask for a birth certificate for a willing girl to submit to their wishes before engaging in sexual acts with said girl if she appears to be of age and she's at an after-prom party?

that's it blame everyone except the OSU alum who raped the 12 year old. He's the real victim in all this.

[OSUAggie]

I'm not blaming anyone.

If Collins is found guilty, he should pay the price.

If he remains innocent, his name should be cleared (even though it won't due to the way people think).

[redshield3]

The whole point is that OsU is still hanging onto this kid at the risk of looking godawful on the national media stage. It's bad enough they offered him a scholarship. Are they that hard-up for decent defensive players they'll take a sex offender?

Maybe the Boone Pickens stadium renovations should be modified to move the benches enough yard lines from the sidelines in order to keep the kids away from the players, per court orders.

[JohnnyMack]

How about the original Times article linked in this thread (page 2)? Does that count?

Benjamin Dennis, president of the N.A.A.C.P. in Texarkana — whose population is roughly 60 percent white and 37 percent black — said that some of the city’s black residents were concerned about the handling of the case, particularly the delay in trying the four men.

“If they were guilty, then the evidence should have been presented in a timely fashion,” he said. “They should have been tried, and if convicted, sentenced. Justice should have been administered at least.”

So Ben Dennis is playing the race card, not his lawyer. My bad.

[OSUAggie]

The whole point is that OsU is still hanging onto this kid at the risk of looking godawful on the national media stage. It's bad enough they offered him a scholarship. Are they that hard-up for decent defensive players they'll take a sex offender?

Maybe the Boone Pickens stadium renovations should be modified to move the benches enough yard lines from the sidelines in order to keep the kids away from the players, per court orders.

Oh, so now he's a sex offender?

This is the lynching nature, Scott.

[redshield3]

You're forgetting he copped to doing the deed. Try to keep up. I know it's difficult sometimes.

[OSUAggie]

You're making assumptions based on newspaper reports and not allowing the justice system to tell you what happened. Oh, what does it mean to lynch? "To execute without due process of law." I'll be damned...

[TexasLidig8r]

How about the original Times article linked in this thread (page 2)? Does that count?

Benjamin Dennis, president of the N.A.A.C.P. in Texarkana — whose population is roughly 60 percent white and 37 percent black — said that some of the city’s black residents were concerned about the handling of the case, particularly the delay in trying the four men.

“If they were guilty, then the evidence should have been presented in a timely fashion,” he said. “They should have been tried, and if convicted, sentenced. Justice should have been administered at least.”

You know.. I don't practice criminal defense work, but... I do know that one of the tricks of the trade on the defense side is to .. delay, delay, delay. Witnesses move away... memories fade over time.. recollection of specific events become more difficult as time goes by.. and thereby make it easier to cross examine a witness.

In this case, if I were the defense attorney's I would be seeking as many continuances as is humanly possible for those very reasons. In criminal law from the defense perspective, swift justice is rarely favorable justice.

[JohnnyMack]

In criminal law from the defense perspective, swift justice is rarely favorable justice.

Why do you hate Michael Vick?

[Scott D]

Oh, so now he's a sex offender?

This is the lynching nature, Scott.

man, 99% of teenage males are unconvicted sex offenders.

if you ever played a game of "doctor" with a little girl you are a sex offender.
if you ever played spin the bottle with a girl you are a sex offender.

need me to continue?

[OSUAggie]

You know.. I don't practice criminal defense work, but... I do know that one of the tricks of the trade on the defense side is to .. delay, delay, delay. Witnesses move away... memories fade over time.. recollection of specific events become more difficult as time goes by.. and thereby make it easier to cross examine a witness.

In this case, if I were the defense attorney's I would be seeking as many continuances as is humanly possible for those very reasons. In criminal law from the defense perspective, swift justice is rarely favorable justice.

It has been the prosecution that has been delay, delay, delay-ing in this case. That's the odd thing. 4 ADA's have quit because of this case.

The two brothers accused are seeking independent labs to verify the DNA evidence collected by the county.

Collins' representation is not.

[OSUAggie]

man, 99% of teenage males are unconvicted sex offenders.

if you ever played a game of "doctor" with a little girl you are a sex offender.
if you ever played spin the bottle with a girl you are a sex offender.

need me to continue?

That's not quite the connotation that was implicated, but whatever.

[Fraggle145]

Here's the thing I am so tired of and maybe its short sited... I am so tired of this innocence till proven guilty crap. I've had to listen too it since the damn vick thing got started. Just because you are innocent doesnt mean that you shouldnt have gotten yourself in that situation in the first place. You are representing yourself and sometimes others at all times.

If you are going to do something stupid you either dont get caught or you pay the price for either the crime or being affiliated with the crime. It is not my responsibility to make sure that you know what the price is, you should have thought about that before you did something stupid. So basically here it is dont **** 12 year olds, and if you do and get caught yes you are a villain for a long long time and the majority of sensible people are not going to take a chance on you, because frankly you dont deserve it.

[usmc-sooner]

I hope you guys keep the guy. Your program deserves him. With or without him you're still OSU.

[GrapevineSooner]

Witnesses move away... memories fade over time.. recollection of specific events become more difficult as time goes by.. and thereby make it easier to cross examine a witness.

Not on Cold Case, they don't. ;)

[JohnnyMack]

Quote from CC's attorney:


Hoover said the delay is not unusual. "The longer it goes, it may involve some constitutional issues, but I'm not there yet," he said. "The case is getting a little long in the tooth, but I'm not sure that's anybody's fault.

Yeah, sounds like he's heartbroken about the fact it hasn't gone to trial yet.

Don't ya think if he knew his player was innocent that he'd be a little more anxious to get it all over with?

[usmc-sooner]

Here's the thing I am so tired of and maybe its short sited... I am so tired of this innocence till proven guilty crap. I've had to listen too it since the damn vick thing got started. Just because you are innocent doesnt mean that you shouldnt have gotten yourself in that situation in the first place. You are representing yourself and sometimes others at all times.

If you are going to do something stupid you either dont get caught or you pay the price for either the crime or being affiliated with the crime. It is not my responsibility to make sure that you know what the price is, you should have thought about that before you did something stupid. So basically here it is dont **** 12 year olds, and if you do and get caught yes you are a villain for a long long time and the majority of sensible people are not going to take a chance on you, because frankly you dont deserve it.

I think if he was present during this gang rape whether he participated or not he is guilty. I know I wouldn't stand around and watch 2 adults rape a 12 year old. I'm sure Aggie has no beef with this as long as there's a loophole to get him eligible at OSU.

Sometimes you just gotta call it for what it is.

[JohnnyMack]

From Capt. Hair Gel:


I don't think that there's any doubt Chris would say that he made a mistake, and I don't agree with what happened," Gundy said.

What does that mean? Made a mistake by going to the party? Made a mistake by having sex with a 12 year old? What's the deal?

[Scott D]

he made a mistake buying the wrong hair gel for Gundy..duh.

[birddog]

I hope you guys keep the guy. Your program deserves him. With or without him you're still OSU.

i'm with you. they deserve more than jameson curry.

[Jewstin]

What happens in Texarkana stays in Texarkana!

Texarkana Spring Break '08!

[TexasLidig8r]

Here's the thing I am so tired of and maybe its short sited... I am so tired of this innocence till proven guilty crap. I've had to listen too it since the damn Duke Lacrosse thing got started. Just because you are innocent doesnt mean that you shouldnt have gotten yourself in that situation in the first place. You are representing yourself and sometimes others at all times.

If you are going to do something stupid you either dont get caught or you pay the price for either the crime or being affiliated with the crime. It is not my responsibility to make sure that you know what the price is, you should have thought about that before you did something stupid. So basically here it is dont **** skanky prostitutes at college parties, and if you do and get caught yes you are a villain for a long long time and the majority of sensible people are not going to take a chance on you, because frankly you dont deserve it.

Rev Al: "And me.. and my brutha... Reverend Jesse Jesse.. are here TODAY!!! to condemn those evil white devils.. who desci.. disce.. uh... done had sex with that poor woman against her will!! EVIL, RACIST DEVILS!! this university, this Count. or.. uh. Duke.. is a breeding ground for oppressing the poor black man! They should NOT be entitled to a trial!! No.. my bruthas!! In fact... my most learned brutha in arms.. Reverend Jesse Jesse.. has set up a scholarship for this poor, abused woman to attend school!! No more oppression.... No justice NO PEACE...."

psst.... Al... they were completely exonerated.. not just found not guilty.. but found innocent...

"As I was sayin, Barry Bonds is oppressed by the white man!"

There's something to be said about that innocent till proven guilty thing.

[SoonerRecon]

he just adds to the legend of osu:

the dexter manley library
the byron houston fashion school
the chris collins early childhood development school
the mike gundy hair grooming lab
the doug gottleib mental retardation clinic

[XingTheRubicon]

he just adds to the legend of osu:

the dexter manley library
the byron houston fashion school
the chris collins early childhood development school
the mike gundy hair grooming lab
the doug gottleib mental retardation clinic

don't forget Brent Parker's Heimlich Hall.

[JohnnyMack]

You should name the finance dept. after Gottleib.

The Doug Gottleib School of Ill Gotten Gains.

[OSUAggie]

That's a pathetic list...

You picked the wrong #12 QB from the 80s to attack.

And do you really want to bring up transgressions of past athletes?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Actually I believe that would be The Doug Gottlieb Credit Card Fraud Awareness Clinic ;)

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

And the Eddie Sutton DUI School ;)

[picasso]

gotta name the bicycle track after BJ Tiger.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Got to name the golf shooting range after Prentiss Elliott

[picasso]

golf shooting?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I mean Driving Range but you know that doesn't make sense now does it ;)

[meoveryouxinfinity]

Did you even bother reading the two articles?

The article spells out that, and I quote:

It was delayed because of the prosecution’s concern for the girl’s well-being and while DNA testing was conducted, he [District Attorney Lockhart] said.
It takes a long time for rape kits to get tested and analyzed. I think they are backed up about 10 years in California.

[goingoneight]

Can we please get this thread locked?

[Jewstin]

Gotta name the new Kiddie Rape Complex in the sports village after ...

Sigh, too easy, nevermind.