First Day of school....

[blueyedsooner]

First day of school........
1000 degrees outside....
22 new little darling 1st graders.....
1 autistic.....
1 drug baby....
3 on speech IEPs......
and me 30 weeks pregnant....I CAN'T EVEN HAVE A DRINK!!!
Someone please have one for me!!!

TIA!!!!

[SoonerStormchaser]

Ok...is Tanqueray and tonic ok with you?

[WILBURJIM]

Do you get teacher's aides for the special needs kids? Or you handle on your own?

Oh, I wll have a Busch beer or two tonight in your honor.

[King Crimson]

Ok...is Tanqueray and tonic ok with you?

yahtzee!

i taught a summer class with students from Jordan, S. Korea, and a pompous tennis player from Venezuela.

the latter lied to me about taking the final exam early. She had to be back in Venzuela that afternoon. then i see her at the grocery store on Sunday.

girl from S. Korea was really smart, but it was a nightmare reading her exams. god bless her, because i can't take any exams in korean....

[blueyedsooner]

No...no aides. Now this little one does go to a resource class for 2 hours, but this week he's with me all day.

And thanks you two. I can feel the drinks working already....;)

[StoopTroup]

Ok...is Tanqueray and tonic ok with you?
Heh. Rangpur Style?

http://niralimagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/tanqueray-rangpur.jpg

[olevetonahill]

Hoistin a Natty fer U :D

[SicEmBaylor]

You have my sympathy and public school teachers very rarely get that from me. I am in continual disbelief that special needs kids (such as some of the ones you mentioned) are thrown into a classroom with other students.

They shouldn't even be allowed in a public school, period.

[SicEmBaylor]

wow, we actually agree on something. I've always maintained they should have some place where they let them drool and make brooms and stuff.
I'm willing to bet that on the surface of things we would agree 90% of the time. It's the "under the surface" reasoning that we'd part ways.

[OUDoc]

Homey, I love ya until you do this ****. :mad:
And sic 'em, I know I could take you.

[blueyedsooner]

You have my sympathy and public school teachers very rarely get that from me. I am in continual disbelief that special needs kids (such as some of the ones you mentioned) are thrown into a classroom with other students.

They shouldn't even be allowed in a public school, period.

WOW! You are intelligent, aren't you?! Please tell me you're kidding!

For the record, my special needs kids are VERY special to me! They teach ME far more than any schooling I've ever had!!! Today just made for a looong day without my afternoon nap...ya know I'm a teacher and just a freeloading worthless nothing in the summers.

[SicEmBaylor]

WOW! You are intelligent, aren't you?! Please tell me you're kidding!

For the record, my special needs kids are VERY special to me! They teach ME far more than any schooling I've ever had!!! Today just made for a looong day without my afternoon nap...ya know I'm a teacher and just a freeloading worthless nothing in the summers.

This isn't about you though, this is about the kids in your class. I'm not really interested in what the teacher gets out of the situation. When I was in elementary they had their own class except for one hour of the day or so that they would spend in a regular classroom. Typically, they were very disruptive and having them thrown in with normal kids was quite disruptive.

Being forced into a government run education system is bad enough without forcing the kids to endure an additional constituency of retardation.

[OUDoc]

It really amazes me that people with kids wouldn't get it. I expect that those without children would be ignorant, because I was as well. Those with kids should realize the miracle that anyone is ever born "normal". Do you realize how many billions of events have to go perfectly at the exact right moment to have a "normal" child? And it happens every day, even to crack addicts and people who do everything they can to screw up the fetus.
Don't you realize that any parent will do whatever they can to make sure their child gets an appropriate education, despite what those parents who have it easy may think. Homey, you get to have the pride of your daughter going to college. When Ryan was diagnosed with Autism, the first thing I thought was "Well, my son won't be going to OU like I'd hoped". I just hope he speaks to me some day. I've been waiting 6 1/2 years so far. Hell, he may never drive a car, get a job or get married. He might never move out of our house or out from under our care until we die. And people with normally developing kids can make f*cking cracks like that. Amazing.

[OUDoc]

And sic 'em, try having a kid before you spout off **** like that. Karma's a motherf*cker.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

Why don't you guys try to have compassion for these kids? I bet you would advocate having separate water fountains for them too.

A friend of mine's son is autistic. He's 22 years old and was streamlined from the time he was in about 2nd grade. He had some separate classes that helped him with his special needs. The rest of the day he was in class with the "normal" kids. This "retard" is constantly being praised at his job because he works harder and better than many of the "normal" people who work there.

Another friend of mine has a brother who has Down's Syndrome. Same type of story for Matt.

They gained a lot of social skills and learning experiences by being in class with other kids. I'd be willing to bet that the "normal" kids got a lot out of it too.

[Soonrboy]

all children can learn. All of them. It's the job of the schools and great teachers like blue-eyed sooner to take care of them and teach them as much as she can. God bless you

Children who are not normal need to be around "normal" children as an example. The MR class in my school is the most heart swelling place in the world.

You go tell their parents they need to be separated and they don't deserve the same education as others.

And besides, "normal" children can learn about tolerance and differences when these children are in the classrooms. Something you missed out on.

I agree with Doc, Karma is a bitch.

[olevetonahill]

Kids IS Kids . Love em .
And quit being judgmental *******s !:mad:

[IB4OU2]

wow, we actually agree on something. I've always maintained they should have some place where they let them drool and make brooms and stuff.

Maybe they should of gassed all the handicaps instead of wasting taxpayers money on putting them someplace or making them attend class with all the normal people where some of them learn to lead a normal life, attend and graduate college, marry a beautiful wife and have two wonderful daughters that both graduate, with one teaching the same very special people in grade school today. I guess compassion isn't taught in the Airforce or at Baylor.....sheesh :rolleyes:

I would of probably been more proud if one of the daughters would have been some leader in some sorority somewhere though. :rolleyes:

[Frozen Sooner]

They shouldn't even be allowed in a public school, period.

You're an amazingly pathetic person sometimes.

For the record, kids on Speech IEPs aren't "retards." Autistic kids aren't "retards." Kids born to drug addicts aren't "retards." And guess what? They're every bit as entitled to a public education as anyone else.

[olevetonahill]

God Only gives special needs Kids to SPECIAL PARENTS .
JUST SAYIN

[Frozen Sooner]

For the record, there's more than one person who posts on this board who would be classified as special needs in today's schools. I guess they should have just been stacked in an abandoned warehouse somewhere instead of going to school. They were just a waste of their teachers' time.

[Frozen Sooner]

For the record, I say for the record a lot.

[olevetonahill]

wow, we actually agree on something. I've always maintained they should have some place where they let them drool and make brooms and stuff.
Homester Please tell me your drunky or sumpin .
Sicem we know !

[Frozen Sooner]

I've always maintained they should have some place where they let them drool and make brooms and stuff.

It's called "Auburn."

[SicEmBaylor]

Oh for God's sake, I don't think anyone would seriously suggest they be gassed or completely segregated from the rest of society. I just fail to see what use it is putting them in a public school classroom.

At the very least, put them in a different class with a teacher who is well trained and equipped to deal with them.

[olevetonahill]

Oh for God's sake, I don't think anyone would seriously suggest they be gassed or completely segregated from the rest of society. I just fail to see what use it is putting them in a public school classroom.

At the very least, put them in a different class with a teacher who is well trained and equipped to deal with them.
Sicem , STFU
Its common knowledge that when you find your self in a hole the proper thing to do is " Quit Diggin ":mad:

[blueyedsooner]

Spend a day in a resource room....you will soon find out YOU may be the "retard". These kiddos are amazing. My little autistic boy last year made the biggest impression on my class. We had to have a play schedule for him for the class, so he wasn't bombarded with kids on the playground. My class knew there was not a thing wrong with this little boy....he was just like any of the rest of them...he was made exactly how God wanted him. He learned, played, colored, etc just like everyone else. He came to my room last year not talking, not liking anyone, etc. He left talking up a storm and commmunicating in a plethora of ways. He also left with an amazing sense of humor...playing jokes on his teacher, and also saying that everyone in his class was his friend. A small feat to some of you, but this was the highlight of my year.

I can hardly wait to see what this year holds with all my kiddos! They are all true blessings!

[GottaHavePride]

The point of public school is to make sure that everyone gets a minimum basic education. Putting the "challenged" kids in with the "normal" kids helps them learn to be more normal. If you don't want your kids to be put in that situation there are a lot of private schools you can pay for.

[IB4OU2]

Oh for God's sake, I don't think anyone would seriously suggest they be gassed or completely segregated from the rest of society. I just fail to see what use it is putting them in a public school classroom.

At the very least, put them in a different class with a teacher who is well trained and equipped to deal with them.

I'm sure Steven Hawkings would have flourished in one of those different classes...:rolleyes:

[olevetonahill]

Spend a day in a resource you....you will soon find out YOU may be the "retard". These kiddos are amazing. My little autistic boy last year made the biggest impression on my class. We had to have a play schedule for him for the class, so he wasn't bombarded with kids on the playground. My class knew there was not a thing wrong with this little boy....he was just like any of the rest of them...he was made exactly how God wanted him. He learned, played, colored, etc just like everyone else. He came to my room last year not talking, not liking anyone, etc. He left talking up a storm and commmunicating in a plethora of ways. He also left with an amazing sense of humor...playing jokes on his teacher, and also saying that everyone in his class was his friend. A small feat to some of you, but this was the highlight of my year.

I can hardly wait to see what this year holds with all my kiddos! They are all true blessings!
You bring tears to this ole vets eyes . God bless you and all teachers like you .

[SicEmBaylor]

Sicem , STFU
Its common knowledge that when you find your self in a hole the proper thing to do is " Quit Diggin ":mad:
I have thus far refrained from mentioning that I'd abolish the whole damned public education system in a heart beat. I'm merely suggesting an alternative policy for children with special needs.

If emotion and compassion drove all public policy then we'd be the Soviet Socialist Republic of America.

[Zbird]

And sic 'em, try having a kid before you spout off **** like that. Karma's a motherf*cker.

Well said Doc....and here I was, ready to unleash the hounds of hell, and I wasn't needed. you and Blueeyedsooner responded far more eloquently and with far greater authority than the uninformed individuals who spoke ill.

I had the good fortune this afternoon to talk with an excited young speech-language pathologist who had just stepped out of an exhillarating therapy session with an 8 or 9 year old autistic boy. He spends his school days lying on the floor unchallenged in a special education classroom, but comes alive around computers. He is not allowed in the school computer lab any longer because in a few keystrokes he locks up a computer by setting up his own password. His parents have had to try (to no avail) to lock him out of access at home because he gets up at night and surfs the web. He always gets around their passwords and creates his own, thereby turning the tables and locking his parents out. He's taught himself to read and write Spanish by visiting Spanish websites. He will occasionally say a word or two and sometimes a short phrase or sentence, but seldom does he really interactively communicate. Today this young SLP fresh from her graduate program struck gold. She'd exhausted everything she had planned with little success when she started talking to him about computers and he launched into what apparently was his first actual give and take conversational interchange with someone. 'Tard homey? I think not. It's all in there, we just need the right keys to open it up.

God save us from the closed minds of small people.

[olevetonahill]

I have thus far refrained from mentioning that I'd abolish the whole damned public education system in a heart beat. I'm merely suggesting an alternative policy for children with special needs.

If emotion and compassion drove all public policy then we'd be the Soviet Socialist Republic of America.
Boy Im gonna slap you down and take your shovel !

[Viking Kitten]

I spoke with some students, teachers and administrators at an Oklahoma City charter middle school called KIPP earlier this week. Here, they accept students (most of them poor inner city kids) of all learning abilities, including special ed and MR. On average, these students are two grade levels behind starting out. They go to school for an extended school day as well as some Saturdays, they hold them to high standards and they expect them to succeed.

By the time KIPP is done with them, they are outscoring Edmond and Putnam City kids on core curriculum tests, and the special ed kids are passing the tests and working at grade level. The kids work in teams, and the higher performing kids help out their team members who are less abled, and everybody benefits from the experience.

Also worth mentioning is that these teachers work their a**es off to make this happen, as do most of the teachers I've come into contact with.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

And for the record, I've met a lot of "normal kids" who drooled a lot and mumbled so I couldn't understand them.

[royalfan5]

It's a good thing my Mom doesn't use this board, or there would be some serious innerweb facestabbing going down. Both handicapped and unhandicapped children can benefit from being in class together. There is a lot of good to be gained from learning how to interact with those that don't have the same advantages you do, and to suggest otherwise is sheer idiocy.

[soonerboomer93]

yahtzee!

i taught a summer class with students from Jordan, S. Korea, and a pompous tennis player from Venezuela.

the latter lied to me about taking the final exam early. She had to be back in Venzuela that afternoon. then i see her at the grocery store on Sunday.

girl from S. Korea was really smart, but it was a nightmare reading her exams. god bless her, because i can't take any exams in korean....

i'm a pretty decent korglish translater, you coulda asked me

[WILBURJIM]

Also worth mentioning is that these teachers work their a**es off to make this happen, as do most of the teachers I've come into contact with.

Bless their hearts!!!

[olevetonahill]

It's a good thing my Mom doesn't use this board, or there would be some serious innerweb facestabbing going down. Both handicapped and unhandicapped children can benefit from being in class together. There is a lot of good to be gained from learning how to interact with those that don't have the same advantages you do, and to suggest otherwise is sheer idiocy.
I dont normally get riled up over things on the board . But dissin Teachers and Kids will do it .

[olevetonahill]

And for the record, I've met a lot of "normal kids" who drooled a lot and mumbled so I couldn't understand them.
I still do .
Dayum Natty

[sanantoniosooner]

I'm glad I haven't been reading a lot lately.

This crap hacks me off.

[soonerboomer93]

When I was in school, special needs were segregated from the rest of the "normal" students. It started in preschool and all the way to hs graduation. It was probably the worst thing they could of done. We didn't interact with them and just saw them as someone we shouldn't interact with. We didn't learn to be understanding of them, just learned to avoid them.

[Skysooner]

I will add my two cents here. My son is a high-functioning autistic. He wasn't turning over at 12 months and got help. He finally walked at 18 months. At 3 years of age, he was in school full-time as that was the only way he could be guaranteed that he wouldn't be way behind by the time he was in kindergarten. He has been main-streamed the entire time and is only in special ed rooms for subjects that just move too fast for him (i.e. math). He has multiple issues and is on multiple medications just to keep him from hurting himself. However, his teachers love him. They describe him as personable and funny. His classmates protect him and teach him the things that we aren't able to in an effective manner.

His 11th birthday is coming up in two weeks, and we were afraid we couldn't find 5 kids to come since he never gets invited to birthdays. Today was the first day of school in 5th grade, and he secured 4 invites by himself from kids he just met. Some are special needs and some are just kids that have special needs brothers, sisters or cousins. It breaks my heart to know that likely he will never drive, may never marry and will probably hold a menial job the rest of his life. However I wouldn't trade him for anything. Of my two sons, he is the one that loves sports and will watch a tiddly winks match if it is something competitive. He is the one that Bob Stoops signed a football for personally. To suggest that he shouldn't have the same opportunities as other "normal" kids borders on one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read.

[SicEmBaylor]

I got sent a PM to uh discuss the issue further. I explained my position in a bit more detail, so I'm going to post here what I just wrote there.

My language and explanation could have been couched in far more diplomatic terms but I fail to see why it is so horrible to suggest that kids who are mentally impaired should be put in a separate classroom and not thrown into the general population of public schools. Obviously, there are going to be some kids who are impaired that can still function in a special classroom environment in a public school but there are others who can not. I've seen this first hand as my mother used to volunteer for a special needs class. Among the kids in that class there were several who were totally 100% unable to function in a classroom or school in general. There is NO reason why those kids should be in a public school (if they demonstrate they can then they're obviously not a kid that I'm concerned about).

Finally, if I did have a kid like that then there'd be no question that I'd fully love the child; however, I would make sure they were put in a class/school that catered to their needs rather then throwing them into a standard class. That is neither fair to my child nor is it fair to the other children in that class.

[sanantoniosooner]

Why you think your kid needs changes when you actually have one.

[Okla-homey]

My humble apologies to all I offended. Again.

My point is, I personally do not recognize the value of "mainstreaming" -- or whatever term for placing developmentally and/or mentally retarded children in standard classroom settings is in vogue nowadays. In fact, I believe such practices are counter-productive. That is not to say these children do not deserve some form of publicly funded training/educational program which will help them achieve their potential. They do. No argument there. I just don't think it should be in an ordinary classroom setting.

I'm starting to understand some folks view such a belief as akin to the old and flawed rationale for racially segregated schools. I honestly think that's comparing apples to oranges, but nevertheless, that appears to be the situation.

This teacher who started the thread, already faced with an enormous challenge, appeared to me at least, to be lamenting the fact she had to deal with the additional burdens posed by the presence of these children among her other pupils. My bad.

Again, me culpa. And I'm never going to weigh-in on this again.

[AlbqSooner]

My brother is a special ed teacher here in Albquerque. His prinicpal is of the mind that sped students should be segregated and essentially warehoused until they are of an age to be kicked to the curb. My brother, being ever the nonconformist, works with his kids to give them the best shot at becoming employable tax paying citizens who can function in mainstream society.

A few years back he was given a sophomore who was diagnosed with Anspergers (sp?) which is a form of autism. She was selectively mute and agoraphobic. By the time she was a senior she graduated. Not only graduated but graduated as the Salutatorian. She is currently attending New Mexico State on a full academic scholarship. When she stopped by to see him last December she showed him her grades from her first semester in college. She carried a 3.8 average. He suggested she mail a copy of those grades to the principal, which she did.

Had this child been warehoused and segregated, she would most likely have remained agoraphobic to the point of being unable to attend college or function in society. You and I, as taxpayers, do not have to pay for her upkeep. We also reap the benefit of an individual who will no doubt contribute much to society as the years go by.

Indeed, she is a rare example, but in the 6 years that my brother has been at this particular school, he has managed to have 100% employment for his students by the end of their school year. Every child has something they can do. It is because of dedicated teachers that some of them find out what it is they are capable of.

[crawfish]

I think it does most special needs kids worlds of good to be in the general population. As long as they can function somewhat normally in those situations and keep up with the work they should be allowed to stay. It should also teach some of the "normal" kids compassion and understanding towards others who seem to be different.

There is a girl with mental disabilities at my church who I've known since she was 3 (she's 16 now). Her parents decided to keep her with the normal kids at church. Now, even though she has the mental age of an 8- or 9-year old, she has a dozen teenage friends who make sure she is included and wanted, and watch out for her at all church functions. Boys and girls. It does my heart good to see these kids love her so much.

[1stTimeCaller]

Hey SicEm.

The voters of whatever district you ran for public office didn't want to listen to what you had to say.

The readers of SF.com feel the same way.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

As long as the kid doesn't pose a physical or mental distraction to the other kids, I see no reason why they shouldn't share a room with their peers. Now I have seen the kids that pull out their ding a ling and start beating off in class all the time, you probably can't leave them in general population. My Mom is a teacher and she always seemed to have more problems with those kids who had parents who didn't care. They also over diagnose kids now-a-days. I mean seriously doesn't every healthy kid have a little ADD in them

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

Hey SicEm.

The voters of whatever district you ran for public office didn't want to listen to what you had to say.

The readers of SF.com feel the same way.Ouch. I think Republicans who are aspiring politicians should be segregated from the general human population.

Except for Jimminy. He can stay for the comic relief.

[frankensooner]

There was an autistic boy a year ahead of me in highschool. He didn't do well in most of his classes, but was absolutely brilliant in math. NASA came and collected him before he even graduated.

I am glad my children get to go to school with children different from themselves. I didn't meet an African-American until I was in sixth grade. I feel that being segregated from people different from myself didn't do me any favors.

Every child is worthwhile and precious. (That being said I could never be a teacher because I find other peoples children very annoying, my own sometimes I only tolerate.) ;)

[M]

My sister is developmentally disabled. She is 33 and still lives at home with my parents. My parents were public school teachers for 20+ years.

My family, along with millions of other families with similar situations, have seen and dealt with extreme frustration; however, we've also seen incredible miracles, some of which have been mentioned in this thread. One of my sister's best friends growing up won a gold and silver medal at the Special Olympics World Games in 2003.

So please don't act like an expert on something you have no earthly clue about.

[Viking Kitten]

So please don't act like an expert on something you have no earthly clue about.

Dang, M. For some of us message board types, that's our only joy in life.

[M]

Dang, M. For some of us message board types, that's our only joy in life.


:les: Stay on task, VK! ;)

[mdklatt]

Why the hell do schools start in the middle of a week? How many students won't bother showing up until next Monday anyway because they're out of town?

[royalfan5]

Why the hell do schools start in the middle of a week? How many students won't bother showing up until next Monday anyway because they're out of town?
To ease into the routine. We always started with half days on a Thursday when I was in school.

[mdklatt]

To ease into the routine. We always started with half days on a Thursday when I was in school.

What's wrong with easing into the routine on a Monday? Public schools have so many days off throughout the year that surely they can't be too worried about "wasted learning days".

[royalfan5]

What's wrong with easing into the routine on a Monday? Public schools have so many days off throughout the year that surely they can't be too worried about "wasted learning days".
Because it would interrupt two-a-days and we had football games to win. Maybe in Oklahoma, you have lots of days off, but that's not how we roll in Nebraska. We started as soon as we could and got done as soon as we could. We got one day for fall break, 10 for Christmas, and 2 in the spring.

[DoubleDown]

I'm trying to find civil words to respond to this, but I'm having a hard time. See, anyone that believes my 4 year old autistic son doesn't deserve the right to interact with kids his age because he is "special needs"... well... That really upsets me. Maybe I should keep him indoors all his life so he doesn't bother people like Sic'Em. Actually, it would probably be a better idea if Sic'Em just stayed indoors so he will stop bothering the general population.

Dude, you should really stick to making up stories about how pathetic you are (which, really, just makes you more pathetic) for the attention you get around here.

They're called public schools for a reason.

[r5TPsooner]

I'm kinda torn in the manner that special need students are schooled. On one hand, I feel that they should be around the general school population. On the other hand, if a kid has a specific medical problem that causes harm or abnormal disruption in class to others, I feel that they should be in a classroom with a specialized teacher with specialized education and skills.

Quite frankly this is a very tough topic and there is nor wrong or right, and I think that the decision rests squarely on the shoulders of parents, education professionals, and the child's physician.

Very tough call IMHO.

[DoubleDown]

I'm kinda torn in the manner that special need students are schooled. On one hand, I feel that they should be around the general school population. On the other hand, if a kid has a specific medical problem that causes harm or abnormal disruption in class to others, I feel that they should be in a classroom with a specialized teacher with specialized education and skills.

Quite frankly this is a very tough topic and there is nor wrong or right, and I think that the decision rests squarely on the shoulders of parents, education professionals, and the child's physician.

Very tough call IMHO.

I could agree with that.

The decision DEFINITELY should not rest with a pre-pubescent late bloomer who is most likely to never have kids and should keep opinions on matters like this to himself.

[colleyvillesooner]

And here I was thinking this would be a thread with pictures of people's little kiddos heading off to their first day of school.

Holy crap some people suck.

[PhxSooner]

My son has a friend who, from what his parents have learned through testing, is just this side of autistic. He is able to do the regular work, but not at the speed needed to keep up with the class, so he goes to a special ed teacher for the basics. He still goes to "specials" (PE, music, art, library) with his regular class. He's learning the same stuff as his other classmates, but doing less homework, ie, five spelling words instead of ten.

[SoonerGirl06]

Spend a day in a resource room....you will soon find out YOU may be the "retard". These kiddos are amazing. My little autistic boy last year made the biggest impression on my class. We had to have a play schedule for him for the class, so he wasn't bombarded with kids on the playground. My class knew there was not a thing wrong with this little boy....he was just like any of the rest of them...he was made exactly how God wanted him. He learned, played, colored, etc just like everyone else. He came to my room last year not talking, not liking anyone, etc. He left talking up a storm and commmunicating in a plethora of ways. He also left with an amazing sense of humor...playing jokes on his teacher, and also saying that everyone in his class was his friend. A small feat to some of you, but this was the highlight of my year.

I can hardly wait to see what this year holds with all my kiddos! They are all true blessings!

Pure proof that there are Angels among us.

[GrapevineSooner]

I'll just say that I think I see where SicEm and Homey are coming from and I don't think they mean any malice with their positions. But I still respectfully disagree.

Sometimes school isn't just about Reading, 'Riting, and 'Rithmetic. Also, situations like these can't necessarily be solved by a one size fits all solution. Some kids might thrive in an environment where they're kept separate from the rest of the same kids on their grade level. Others, not so much.

Those situations have to be handled on a case-by-case and kid-by-kid basis, IMO. I'll also add that sometimes having these kids in a normal classroom allows everyone to learn something from everyone else.

[sanantoniosooner]

Very few kids "thrive" in isolation.

The ONLY reason to separate kids is if they are a safety risk or an excessive distraction.

[SicEmBaylor]

Again, my position is being blown way way the hell out of proportion. I never said anything about keeping them locked in a basement somewhere totally out of the way of society. I'm merely suggesting that putting them in a regular classroom all day in a public school may not be the best overall idea.

The only experience that I can speak of is what happened when I was in school. Like I said, they had a special class for those kids but spent an hour or two each day in a regular classroom. When they were in our regular class our teacher spent 99% of the time helping those kids and trying to get them to move along at the pace of the rest of the class.

It seems logical to assume that if you were to put them in a class all day that the speed of the class and the attention the teacher gave to the rest of her students would both drastically decrease. It also seems logical to assume that those kids would get more out of an education if they had a special class tailored to their needs and taught by a teacher who was specifically trained to work with them.

I really, for the life of me, can't figure out why that is so outrageous. Now, I do have additional problems with public schools being put in the position of having to accommodate every special needs kid but then again I just have a problem with public schools.

Again, I apologize if anyone thinks I was suggesting we lock a bunch of poor kids up in the belfry like Quasimodo. I never ever suggested such a thing and I think it's a little unfair to suggest that I did. This is what happens when you let raw emotion takeover a legitimate discussion on policy differences.

[OUDoc]

This is what happens when you let raw emotion takeover a legitimate discussion on policy differences.
There was no such discussion. What you said was:


They shouldn't even be allowed in a public school, period.

That's hardly discussion.

[SicEmBaylor]

There was no such discussion. What you said was:



That's hardly discussion.

If a kid can't even function in the classroom then why should they? I mean, what are they doing there?

Every kid is different. There are varying degrees to which they can function in the school/clasroom and I've already said that if a kid can actually function just fine then I don't have a problem with them being there. If they can't though, why should they?

I mentioned earlier that my mom spent several years doing Special Education volunteer work. Several of those kids just had learning disabilities and were just fine. There were a few who couldn't exactly keep up with a normal classroom but they could function well enough overall among other kids and adults.

Then there were something like 3-4 who absolutely could not function with other kids, they couldn't function with teachers, and they even became physically violent at times. There was one kid who bit a chunk of flesh out of my mother's arm because she asked him to pick up his crayons or something like that. It wasn't the first time he'd become violent. Others would go into these horrible raging fits. Their parents would be called, and I think the school suggested that maybe there was some place better that could deal with those kids and the parents got irate giving the whole, "they belong here just as much as anyone" argument.

Someone seriously give me a logical and compelling argument why kids like that should be put into a public school and in a regular classroom with other kids.

I just don't see it but if you can make a good compelling argument then I'm all ears.

[OUDoc]

Who decides what my son can and can't do? You?

[LilSooner]

Sic 'em just stop posting about this. There is no way that you can dig yourself out of this hole.

You have offended a lot of people in the thread. Any good politician knows that now is the time to STFU and apologize your *** off.

[WILBURJIM]

If a kid can't even function in the classroom then why should they? I mean, what are they doing there?

Every kid is different. There are varying degrees to which they can function in the school/clasroom and I've already said that if a kid can actually function just fine then I don't have a problem with them being there. If they can't though, why should they?

I mentioned earlier that my mom spent several years doing Special Education volunteer work. Several of those kids just had learning disabilities and were just fine. There were a few who couldn't exactly keep up with a normal classroom but they could function well enough overall among other kids and adults.

Then there were something like 3-4 who absolutely could not function with other kids, they couldn't function with teachers, and they even became physically violent at times. There was one kid who bit a chunk of flesh out of my mother's arm because she asked him to pick up his crayons or something like that. It wasn't the first time he'd become violent. Others would go into these horrible raging fits. Their parents would be called, and I think the school suggested that maybe there was some place better that could deal with those kids and the parents got irate giving the whole, "they belong here just as much as anyone" argument.

Someone seriously give me a logical and compelling argument why kids like that should be put into a public school and in a regular classroom with other kids.

I just don't see it but if you can make a good compelling argument then I'm all ears.

What sort of kids you talking about now? Autism Integrated? Kids with speech issues? Or kids like the one that bit your momma's arm?
Emotional lumping of "these kids" into one category, "tards." That is what you are guilty of.

[MiccoMacey]

blue-eyed one,

My first day as a teacher (for which I had absolutely no training for):

They took all the fourth and fifth grade students who couldn't manage themselves in a classroom and...put them all into one classroom. It's called a self-contained classroom in the education world, or a holding tank in the penal system.

I'd never been cussed at so poetically. These kids had the wording, the timing and the rhyming of what they were saying down to a tee. It was natural. Cursing was the only language they had ever known.

One kid (a fourth grader) was just allowed back into public education that year because the prrevious year he stabbed a teacher with a pair of scissors. Another kid (a fifth grader) was arrested for assaulting a police officer.


I feel your pain. But get through it, because there truly is little better feeling than seeing one of them learn something. For those of you who've never experienced it, it is a life-changing event for both you and the child.

[SicEmBaylor]

Who decides what my son can and can't do? You?
Uh, no.
I would guess school administrators and a little bit of common sense. If a kid does nothing but scream and go nuts all day while getting physically violent with the staff then surely it isn't that big a stretch to suggest he be placed elsewhere.

[SicEmBaylor]

What sort of kids you talking about now? Autism Integrated? Kids with speech issues? Or kids like the one that bit your momma's arm?
Emotional lumping of "these kids" into one category, "tards." That is what you are guilty of.

I never referred to them as 'tards.

There are autistic kids who can and do function just fine in a classroom. I'm referring to any sort of behavioral, mental, or whatever other problem makes a kid incapable of keeping up with the normal pace of a classroom and with an inability to behave properly. I'm all for pulling kids who are perfectly fine but absolutely can not behave out of school.

[MiccoMacey]

Man, Sic'em, I'd have loved to be a student in your world.

[colleyvillesooner]

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7963/xlsd9.jpg

[OUDoc]

Uh, no.
I would guess school administrators and a little bit of common sense. If a kid does nothing but scream and go nuts all day while getting physically violent with the staff then surely it isn't that big a stretch to suggest he be placed elsewhere.
That's what is being done. A slim minority of these kids "do nothing but scream and go nuts all day while getting physically violent". You're lumping all these kids together, which is precisely what the laws are trying to prevent.
Let it go, sic 'em, you're only going to make a large group of parents angry. Getting between a kid and their parents is a very bad idea.

[Frozen Sooner]

Wow. That's interesting. Because not one kid in the initial post was someone who couldn't function in a classroom.

I guess stutterers might slow the class down marginally. They should have their own classes. :rolleyes:

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

Can we give all the "slow learners" their own forum?

[colleyvillesooner]

We've been trying to get the political forum for a while now.

[olevetonahill]

Sicem , I asked you to STFU about this last night in a nice way . Now Im gonna suggest you take that shovel that you keep using and shove it up your anus .
You are Not a gifted polictician that can turn what youve said into positive spin !
Be a man and Just say
Sorrry Folks My bad .
Oh wait .

[sanantoniosooner]

If it was me posting this crap..........

oh well.......nevermind.......

[Jimminy Crimson]

Let's all watch Forrest Gump together. We have some lessons we could learn... :pop:

[sanantoniosooner]

Let's all watch Forrest Gump together. We have some lessons we could learn... :pop:
Sic'em is as Sic'em does.

[blueyedsooner]

I'm just hoping I haven't offended anyone. My initial post was ME saying I was tired after my first day back, hot, pregnant, and I needed a drink. The only reason I posted anything about the kids in my class was b/c I didn't want to hear how easy I had it..."playing" with kids all day. I have a great class...each child makes it great. There are challenges with my "special needs" kids, but that's part of my job and I love it. There are even more challenges with my "normal" kiddos....the ones I can't do anything with b/c all they need is a good spanking from a parent!

Each child has something they need to have extra attention paid to...whether it be further testing to find a learning disability, maybe they are having trouble seeing and need glasses, maybe they have a hearing impairment that hasn't been discovered, maybe mom and dad had a fight last night and they are scared, maybe they didn't get breakfast b/c there is no food in the house, maybe no one cares what they do or how they do, maybe someone cares so much they are riding their child about everything..... My thing is no one is "normal". Every child needs someone to pay attention to their needs.

I have no clue how this thread turned into this, but hopefully some of you hillbillies have had some eye openers to open your closed minds!

[olevetonahill]

I'm just hoping I haven't offended anyone. My initial post was ME saying I was tired after my first day back, hot, pregnant, and I needed a drink. The only reason I posted anything about the kids in my class was b/c I didn't want to hear how easy I had it..."playing" with kids all day. I have a great class...each child makes it great. There are challenges with my "special needs" kids, but that's part of my job and I love it. There are even more challenges with my "normal" kiddos....the ones I can't do anything with b/c all they need is a good spanking from a parent!

Each child has something they need to have extra attention paid to...whether it be further testing to find a learning disability, maybe they are having trouble seeing and need glasses, maybe they have a hearing impairment that hasn't been discovered, maybe mom and dad had a fight last night and they are scared, maybe they didn't get breakfast b/c there is no food in the house, maybe no one cares what they do or how they do, maybe someone cares so much they are riding their child about everything..... My thing is no one is "normal". Every child needs someone to pay attention to their needs.

I have no clue how this thread turned into this, but hopefully some of you hillbillies have had some eye openers to open your closed minds!

You did NOTHING wrong . Keep your Chin up . I wish we had more like you :cool:

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I beg to differ personally...I am normal. Pretty much all of you non-normal folk should go collect me some grapes for my eating and get about to the business of making me happy. The only problem is with the rest of the universe being tards is finding a decent driver for my limo.

[SoonerGirl06]

1TC has a limo, maybe he can drive you.... or is someone who ****es on the carpet considered a 'tard?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

http://www.popoholic.com/bigimages/salma-penelope-bandidas-05.jpg


I am thinking the driver should be hot with Jerk's tactical firearms, cuz all the tards are bound to get jealous that I am SOOOOOO normal! And yes ****ing on the carpet makes him what I call an "undesirable" tard ;)

[Okla-homey]

I guess we're all 'tards in one area or another. Me? A 'tard in the area of insensitivity to others feeling springs immediately to mind. That, and I'm an a-hole sometimes.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Didn't you get the memo...I am the only normal person???

[GottaHavePride]

I beg to differ personally...I am normal. Pretty much all of you non-normal folk should go collect me some grapes for my eating and get about to the business of making me happy. The only problem is with the rest of the universe being tards is finding a decent driver for my limo.

Dammit. I can never find a picture of Dom Deluise as Emperor Caesar when I need one.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Is that you in your avatar...cuz you are really hott!!!