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colleyvillesooner
8/15/2007, 10:42 AM
I'm surprised this hasn't happened before.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2975386


Former big leaguer Offerman arrested for melee

BRIDGEPORT, Conn. -- Former major league All-Star Jose Offerman was charged with two counts of second-degree assault after hitting the pitcher and catcher with his bat during an independent minor league game.

Offerman posted $10,000 bond and is due in Bridgeport Superior Court on Aug. 23, court officials said Wednesday.

Bridgeport Bluefish catcher John Nathans, right, tried to stop Jose Offerman from hitting Bluefish pitcher Matt Beech with a bat on Tuesday night. Beech broke a finger and Nathans was hit in the head in the attack.

Offerman, playing for the Long Island Ducks in the Atlantic League, homered in the first inning. The next inning, he was hit by a pitch from Bridgeport's Matt Beech and charged the mound with his bat.

According to the Connecticut Post, Beech was hit on the hands as he attempted to defend himself, while catcher John Nathans was hit in the back of the head on Offerman's backswing. Police said Beech, a left-hander, sustained a broken right middle finger, and Nathans later suffered from nausea, the newspaper reported. Bridgeport manager Tommy John told ESPN2's "First Take" that Nathans had suffered a concussion.

Offerman played for the Bluefish in 2003.

"He hit him with a cut fastball in the left calf," John said, according to the Post. "And the next thing you know, Offerman's going to the mound with his bat over his head taking swings at Beech. He took at least two, maybe even three [swings]."

"It was just a scary incident for everybody witnessing what took place," Bluefish pitcher Mike Porzio said, according to the Post. "Everybody was in shock at the time because it's not something you see. I've played 15 years and I've never seen that before.

"Everyone was fearful for Matt Beech because apparently something set Offerman off, because he's played a long time and nobody could believe what they were seeing. Unfortunately, though, he got out to the mound before we could," Porzio said, according to the newspaper. "Luckily for Matt Beech, he was agile enough to dodge a bat. But it may have only been John Nathans taking one on the backswing in the head to have saved Matt Beech from really taking one in the face."

Nathans left the game at the end of the inning, the Post reported.

"He attempted to keep on going, but he came in the dugout and fell over," Porzio said, according to the Post. "Clearly, it was more than just a bang on the head."

The game was delayed for about 20 minutes because of the melee. Offerman, Beech and John were all ejected.

The newspaper reported that police converged on the Ducks' clubhouse once order was restored on the field.

"I called [Atlantic League executive director] Joe Klein immediately after the incident and told him what had occurred on the field," Bluefish CEO Mary-Jane Foster told the Post. "And I have asked that the Atlantic League suspend Jose Offerman from the league for life."

Offerman batted .273 during his 15 seasons in the majors. He last played in the majors in 2005 with Philadelphia and the New York Mets. He was an All-Star in 1995 with the Dodgers and 1999 with Boston.

royalfan5
8/15/2007, 10:47 AM
As inaccurate as Offerman's arm is, he really had no choice but to take the bat with him for the attack.

colleyvillesooner
8/15/2007, 10:49 AM
HEH

Ike
8/15/2007, 11:02 AM
This is what happens to washed up players that continue to take themselves seriously.

Beef
8/15/2007, 11:12 AM
As inaccurate as Offerman's arm is, he really had no choice but to take the bat with him for the attack.
I was thinking it was a good thing he didn't throw the bat or someone in the stands would have been killed.

leftfield
8/15/2007, 12:06 PM
Matt Beech and my brother were teammates/roommates at Navarro JC and he could not be a nicer guy...I hope Offerman never plays again.

StuIsTheMan
8/15/2007, 12:33 PM
Well pitchers that "Intentionally" hit batters for a reason like "He hit a homer on me last time so..." should get what's comming...they have a weapon in their hands right...ie Dawson hit in mouth...then I don't have a problem with the batter taking the bat with him...but if it is just a wild pitch then that is part of the game...but some of these pitchers need to get beat up from time to time...I have played alot of ball in my day (never pro) and have been intentionally hit a few times (Yeah I am sure your suprised) and have charged the mound and ended up in a bench clear. I never took a bat but they did get what was comming to them...and if your gonna charge...you GOT TO TAKE OUT THE CATCHER FIRST...I threw my bat at the catcher then charged the dickhole. MAN I MISS THOSE DAYS!:D

Ike
8/15/2007, 12:44 PM
Well pitchers that "Intentionally" hit batters for a reason like "He hit a homer on me last time so..." should get what's comming...they have a weapon in their hands right...ie Dawson hit in mouth...then I don't have a problem with the batter taking the bat with him...but if it is just a wild pitch then that is part of the game...but some of these pitchers need to get beat up from time to time...I have played alot of ball in my day (never pro) and have been intentionally hit a few times (Yeah I am sure your supprised) and have charged the mound and ended up in a bench clear. I never took a bat but they did get what was comming to them...and if your gonna charge...you GOT TO TAKE OUT THE CATCHER FIRST...I threw my bat at the catcher then charged the dickhole. MAN I MISS THOSE DAYS!:D

Offerman was hit in the calf. It wasn't intentional. The beanball is thrown at the numbers...or higher.

The Maestro
8/15/2007, 12:47 PM
This is what happens to washed up players that continue to take themselves seriously.

(Rickey Henderson voice) "Rickey would never have done nuttin' like this cause Rickey liked when Rickey got on base so Rickey could steal 'em all!"

Fugue
8/15/2007, 01:15 PM
Offerman was hit in the calf. It wasn't intentional. The beanball is thrown at the numbers...or their chin.

:texan:

Ike
8/15/2007, 02:16 PM
:texan:

At the chin isn't a beanball. Thats a brushback.

Fugue
8/15/2007, 02:24 PM
At the chin isn't a beanball. Thats a brushback.

You never clipped a chin?

Ike
8/15/2007, 02:33 PM
You never clipped a chin?
nope. batters tend to get that part of their body out of the way a little easier.


I have however missed on a brushback and hit batters in the helmet. Its not intentional, but usually those are the guys that crowd the plate so much that you figure they have to expect that from time to time.

1stTimeCaller
8/15/2007, 02:39 PM
nope. batters tend to get that part of their body out of the way a little easier.


I have however missed on a brushback and hit batters in the helmet. Its not intentional, but usually those are the guys that crowd the plate so much that you figure they have to expect that from time to time.

You are a cheater and a disgrace to the game.

Ike
8/15/2007, 02:43 PM
You are a cheater and a disgrace to the game.


heh.

Little known fact: An impact with the helmet will often scuff up one side of the ball.

reevie
8/15/2007, 05:50 PM
One of the quote's printed in SI in the 80s that I remember about Offerman:



How do you spell Offerman? With about a 100 E's.

Scott D
8/15/2007, 06:55 PM
You are a cheater and a disgrace to the game.

nah, I think one of the bigger problems is that most pitchers seem to be "Afraid" to pitch inside. I miss the good ole days where some chin music came after someone showboated a home run.

StuIsTheMan
8/15/2007, 08:18 PM
If your a good Pitcher then why need a brushback...just strike him out big guy...I have never been a fan of the Brush back or bean ball... it's cheap and only used by those pitchers who can't get someone out on skill...:pop:

oumartin
8/15/2007, 08:21 PM
c'mon guys this is a great chance to show this again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n36lYGA9Nw

OCUDad
8/15/2007, 08:29 PM
If your a good Pitcher then why need a brushback...just strike him out big guy...I have never been a fan of the Brush back or bean ball... it's cheap and only used by those pitchers who can't get someone out on skill...:pop:That statement alone tells me you never played competitive ball at any level beyond Little League, despite your claims.

Cam
8/15/2007, 08:39 PM
Ain't a damn thing wrong with a little chin music. Sets up the curve ball quite nicely.

If a dude's show boating, he deserves to get one between the numbers.

Scott D
8/16/2007, 03:07 PM
If your a good Pitcher then why need a brushback...just strike him out big guy...I have never been a fan of the Brush back or bean ball... it's cheap and only used by those pitchers who can't get someone out on skill...:pop:

pretty sure guys like Bob Gibson, Dizzy Dean, Walter Johnson, Don Drysdale, and Bob Feller would disagree with ya there Stu.

StuIsTheMan
8/16/2007, 03:13 PM
pretty sure guys like Bob Gibson, Dizzy Dean, Walter Johnson, Don Drysdale, and Bob Feller would disagree with ya there Stu.

They also used it and it was as cheap then as it is now...those guys were GREAT pitchers and did not need to resort to those tacticts...You bean or "Brushback" a guy...You deserve what you get...Bat right up the Arse I say!

Scott D
8/16/2007, 03:16 PM
They also used it and it was as cheap then as it is now...those guys were GREAT pitchers and did not need to resort to those tacticts...You bean or "Brushback" a guy...You deserve what you get...Bat right up the Arse I say!

They never threw at anyone who wasn't attempting to showboat. Truthfully, anyone who stands there to admire their long ball deserves a little reminder chin music. If they can't take the heat they should remember why they got a duster.

StuIsTheMan
8/16/2007, 03:34 PM
They never threw at anyone who wasn't attempting to showboat. Truthfully, anyone who stands there to admire their long ball deserves a little reminder chin music. If they can't take the heat they should remember why they got a duster.


Dude that is Such CRAP (IMO) Pitchers walk off all high and mighty after a K or getting out of a jam. Pumping their arms at the Batter they just K'd...ALL THE TIME! And if a guy hits a 96 MPH fastball 450' he should just go "Oh big deal"...Pitchers Showboat (the Good ones anyway) as much as the batters do...It just aint right to throw a fast ball at a guy INTENTIONALY and not expect to get your ARSE KICKED!

colleyvillesooner
8/16/2007, 03:38 PM
They never threw at anyone who wasn't attempting to showboat. Truthfully, anyone who stands there to admire their long ball deserves a little reminder chin music. If they can't take the heat they should remember why they got a duster.

Then Bonds should have been beaned about 150 times in the last few years.

Scott D
8/16/2007, 03:38 PM
Dude that is Such CRAP (IMO) Pitchers walk off all high and mighty after a K or getting out of a jam. Pumping their arms at the Batter they just K'd...ALL THE TIME! And if a guy hits a 96 MPH fastball 450' he should just go "Oh big deal"...Pitchers Showboat (the Good ones anyway) as much as the batters do...It just aint right to throw a fast ball at a guy INTENTIONALY and not expect to get your ARSE KICKED!

You're talking about the false bravado that modern era players have in every sport now. As compared to the respect the game mentality that preceded it. On the other hand, it'd have been amusing to see Bob Gibson give Barry Bonds some chin music for watching one of his McCovey Cove shots.

StuIsTheMan
8/16/2007, 03:46 PM
You're talking about the false bravado that modern era players have in every sport now. As compared to the respect the game mentality that preceded it. On the other hand, it'd have been amusing to see Bob Gibson give Barry Bonds some chin music for watching one of his McCovey Cove shots.

No Ithink I am Talking Baseball...now and then...It has never had a part in the game, and is (has been) used by Pitchers that get their little ego hurt...Boo Hoo...get over it and strike the guy out next time. Not throw a temper tantrum like a 5 yr old and huck a ball at someones head...I'll put it like this, Take football for example, I've seen guys take tremndous shots and get right back up smack the guy, that just laid him out, on the helmet and say Good hit man, happends more often then not...Why can't Arrogant Pitchers have the common decency to do the same? Your logic would suggest that when a batter gets struck out, the next time he gets up should go out and just level the pitcher with his bat...that makes sence to you? Doubt it. Neither is what you are defending...BOTH WRONG!

Ike
8/16/2007, 03:50 PM
That statement alone tells me you never played competitive ball at any level beyond Little League, despite your claims.
we have a winner.

Ike
8/16/2007, 03:53 PM
Chin music has a bigger purpose than reminding the hitter not to showboat. Its a tool that needs to be used from time to time to remind the hitter that the entire plate belongs to the pitcher. Striking them out next time is all well and good, but if you keep letting the hitter dig in, that just gets harder and harder to do. The chin music often makes them a little ligher on their feet, and allows the pitcher to use the entire plate rather than just the outer half.

StuIsTheMan
8/16/2007, 03:57 PM
That statement alone tells me you never played competitive ball at any level beyond Little League, despite your claims.


Why is that? I played for 12 years straight...LL thru HS (Varsity 3 years) and yes never pro...But I think I have a great working knowledge of the sport. And if the Beanball or the Brushback were legal then they would be in the rule book right...they are not...and Pitchers get ejected all the time for it...

StuIsTheMan
8/16/2007, 03:59 PM
Chin music has a bigger purpose than reminding the hitter not to showboat. Its a tool that needs to be used from time to time to remind the hitter that the entire plate belongs to the pitcher. Striking them out next time is all well and good, but if you keep letting the hitter dig in, that just gets harder and harder to do. The chin music often makes them a little ligher on their feet, and allows the pitcher to use the entire plate rather than just the outer half.

Please enlighten me on this rule please...:pop:

Ike
8/16/2007, 04:01 PM
Why is that? I played for 12 years straight...LL thru HS (Varsity 3 years) and yes never pro...But I think I have a great working knowledge of the sport. And if the Beanball or the Brushback were legal then they would be in the rule book right...they are not...and Pitchers get ejected all the time for it...

I've never seen a pitcher get ejected for brushing a guy back.

leftfield
8/16/2007, 04:04 PM
Well pitchers that "Intentionally" hit batters for a reason like "He hit a homer on me last time so..." should get what's comming...they have a weapon in their hands right...ie Dawson hit in mouth...then I don't have a problem with the batter taking the bat with him...but if it is just a wild pitch then that is part of the game...but some of these pitchers need to get beat up from time to time...I have played alot of ball in my day (never pro) and have been intentionally hit a few times (Yeah I am sure your suprised) and have charged the mound and ended up in a bench clear. I never took a bat but they did get what was comming to them...and if your gonna charge...you GOT TO TAKE OUT THE CATCHER FIRST...I threw my bat at the catcher then charged the dickhole. MAN I MISS THOSE DAYS!:D

ummmm, I'm calling bs

StuIsTheMan
8/16/2007, 04:08 PM
I've never seen a pitcher get ejected for brushing a guy back.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=245781

http://www.howbaseballworks.com/PitchesandPitching.htm

http://contractbud.com/article.php?source=front&article=apc_pitchingchanges

http://www.thebaseballpage.com/features/2003/beanball_history.htm

I dare you to find one article, rule or anything else but your banter that defends the act of a beanball or brushback.
:pop:

StuIsTheMan
8/16/2007, 04:09 PM
ummmm, I'm calling bs

SHUT UP NOOB!

Ike
8/16/2007, 04:12 PM
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=245781

http://www.howbaseballworks.com/PitchesandPitching.htm

http://contractbud.com/article.php?source=front&article=apc_pitchingchanges

http://www.thebaseballpage.com/features/2003/beanball_history.htm

I dare you to find one article, rule or anything else but your banter that defends the act of a beanball or brushback.
:pop:

see, you seem to lump them both together. I'm telling you that the brushback is a different pitch entirely.

Lets see what wikipedia has to say, because I don't care too look for articles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushback_pitch


Jump to: navigation, search

In baseball, a brushback pitch is one thrown in such a way that the batter must move back to avoid it. It differs from the beanball in that the intent is not to hit the batter, but to force him to back off the plate, and be wary for the rest of the at bat. It is most commonly thrown as a fastball, although sometimes as a curveball. Play-by-play announcers will sometimes call a high brushback pitch as being "high and tight." Some announcers also call it "chin music"

Hitters will often crowd the plate in order to have a better swing at pitches on the outside half of the plate. The hitters hope that the pitcher will be scared to throw inside because they might hit the batter. The brushback helps a pitcher to "reclaim" the corners of the plate by forcing the batter to stand farther away.

While controversial, many people knowledgeable about baseball acknowledge that the brushback is an important part of pitching, and a part of baseball. Most pitchers who make extensive use of brushback are not trying to hit the players, or cause bad feeling; they feel that it is their right to throw balls inside, even off the plate inside. However, there have always been some headhunters who attempt to hit the other player and give a general bad name to the inside pitch.

StuIsTheMan
8/16/2007, 04:16 PM
I could go and make an entry that debunks that entirely...heck you prolly wrote this one didn't ya:D

leftfield
8/16/2007, 04:18 PM
SHUT UP NOOB!
:D

GrapevineSooner
8/16/2007, 04:21 PM
Throwing at the head or at somebody's knees is a no-no.

Everywhere else is fine.

StuIsTheMan
8/16/2007, 04:25 PM
Throwing at the head or at somebody's knees is a no-no.

Everywhere else is fine.

Well I guess that ends this debate:rolleyes:

GrapevineSooner
8/16/2007, 04:30 PM
Well I guess that ends this debate:rolleyes:

Glad to be of some assistance to this thread. :D

OCUDad
8/16/2007, 05:37 PM
This thread is beyond assistance.


And if the Beanball or the Brushback were legal then they would be in the rule book right...
Scratching your nuts isn't in the rulebook, either. By your logic, that makes it illegal.

I would advise you to stick a topic you know something about, but after that idiotic assertion, I doubt there is such a thing.

StuIsTheMan
8/16/2007, 05:47 PM
This thread is beyond assistance.


Scratching your nuts isn't in the rulebook, either. By your logic, that makes it illegal.

I would advise you to stick a topic you know something about, but after that idiotic assertion, I doubt there is such a thing.


Noted:rolleyes:

Since when has someone got a concusion from someone scratching there nuts?...And how did I defend that logic please show me...that's because I did not...EVAR! Is this what you do normally when you are losing an argument? Put words in people's mouth...Come on man you can do better...but then again maybe not...You are trying to justify intentionally hurting someone cause they hurt your poor Little Ego...man GROW THE F UP!

And if you would like to challenge my knowledge of the sport then go ahead...and look up a question, cause after reading your post's I doubt you could think of one on your own.

StuIsTheMan
8/16/2007, 05:59 PM
oooh OCUdad likes to neg when someone disagree's with him...why not just keep it here where everyone can see?

And just because your Son (I am guessing here) plays Pro Ball (prolly AAA) gives you unlimitted wisdom on the sport, that no one else could possibly have huh...WOW! there's your logic.


Quit trying to bait me here man...I have actually learned a thing or two about "the Rules" around here and don't intend on breaking them again on someone like you sorry.

OCUDad
8/16/2007, 06:09 PM
Way to show your class, Stu.

Scott D
8/16/2007, 06:12 PM
No Ithink I am Talking Baseball...now and then...It has never had a part in the game, and is (has been) used by Pitchers that get their little ego hurt...Boo Hoo...get over it and strike the guy out next time. Not throw a temper tantrum like a 5 yr old and huck a ball at someones head...I'll put it like this, Take football for example, I've seen guys take tremndous shots and get right back up smack the guy, that just laid him out, on the helmet and say Good hit man, happends more often then not...Why can't Arrogant Pitchers have the common decency to do the same? Your logic would suggest that when a batter gets struck out, the next time he gets up should go out and just level the pitcher with his bat...that makes sence to you? Doubt it. Neither is what you are defending...BOTH WRONG!

Once again like Ike said, you're lumping being brushed back with being beaned. Batters today don't have a healthy respect of the strike zone. Any batter that stands on the inside line to get outside coverage while leaning over the top of the inside part of the plate deserves any fastball they get to the elbow/ribs. Contrary to what Ike said, the pitcher doesn't own the plate...however the pitcher has just as much of a right to the inside of the strike zone as the batter does. If it takes an inside fastball that sends the batter sprawling backwards out of the box to get that point across there's nothing wrong with it.

A pitcher throwing a brushback isn't trying to hit the batter, they're trying to gain back a portion of the strike zone that the hitter feels doesn't exist. I've been thrown at, and I've thrown at a batter before. I've also thrown inside to brushback a batter to establish the inside part of the plate as a legitimate area to throw strikes in. I've also charged the pitcher when I thought they were intentionally throwing at me, neither player is in the right when it's intentional in terms of hitting someone. But you can't sit there and tell me that a pitcher doesn't have the right to throw inside and get a batter from crowding home plate, and truthfully know it's honestly the right way to play the game.

StuIsTheMan
8/16/2007, 06:16 PM
Way to show your class, Stu.

As the father of a professional baseball player (pitcher), I'll put my knowledge against your showboating any time - OCUDad


I would advise you to stick a topic you know something about, but after that idiotic assertion, I doubt there is such a thing.

You laid down the first classless post here genius, mine was only in rebuttle...if you would like to factually contiune this conversation fine...but like I said before...there are no FACTS to justify your POV so that's where I will leave it...your (Jaded) POV

StuIsTheMan
8/16/2007, 06:26 PM
Once again like Ike said, you're lumping being brushed back with being beaned. Batters today don't have a healthy respect of the strike zone. Any batter that stands on the inside line to get outside coverage while leaning over the top of the inside part of the plate deserves any fastball they get to the elbow/ribs. Contrary to what Ike said, the pitcher doesn't own the plate...however the pitcher has just as much of a right to the inside of the strike zone as the batter does. If it takes an inside fastball that sends the batter sprawling backwards out of the box to get that point across there's nothing wrong with it.

A pitcher throwing a brushback isn't trying to hit the batter, they're trying to gain back a portion of the strike zone that the hitter feels doesn't exist. I've been thrown at, and I've thrown at a batter before. I've also thrown inside to brushback a batter to establish the inside part of the plate as a legitimate area to throw strikes in. I've also charged the pitcher when I thought they were intentionally throwing at me, neither player is in the right when it's intentional in terms of hitting someone. But you can't sit there and tell me that a pitcher doesn't have the right to throw inside and get a batter from crowding home plate, and truthfully know it's honestly the right way to play the game.


FINALLY SOME FACTS!!! YEAH OCUDad should be taking notes

I totaly agree on all counts here...I was (and always was) Talking about the Egotistical Jagoffs that "Brushback" or "Bean" because of a Previous homerun or other Ego bruisers he might have had in the past with teams or batters. that is all...Yeah if the Batter is leaning into the strike zone...HELL YAH Rifle one downthe pipe...if he gets hit, it's his problem...

C&CDean
8/16/2007, 06:32 PM
Calm down Stu.

StuIsTheMan
8/16/2007, 07:33 PM
Ah come on Dean...It's all in fun right;)

def_lazer_fc
8/16/2007, 07:40 PM
he had to bring a bat cuz he was afraid this might happen.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e376/def_lazer_fc/ryan_ventura.jpg

StuIsTheMan
8/16/2007, 07:53 PM
Ahhh Bri would be proud of me:D


And Ryan was a total BAD A$$...He did play dirty form time to time, but why would anybody charge him?

Ike
8/16/2007, 07:58 PM
FINALLY SOME FACTS!!! YEAH OCUDad should be taking notes

I totaly agree on all counts here...I was (and always was) Talking about the Egotistical Jagoffs that "Brushback" or "Bean" because of a Previous homerun or other Ego bruisers he might have had in the past with teams or batters. that is all...Yeah if the Batter is leaning into the strike zone...HELL YAH Rifle one downthe pipe...if he gets hit, it's his problem...

So your problem here is one of vocabulary. A brushback nearly always refers to an attempt to get the hitter off the plate. (And Scott is wrong, the pitcher does own the plate and must defend his ownership of the plate at all times). Brushbacks are not retaliatory pitches. Beanballs are. Sometimes brushbacks are interpreted as retailitory when in reality the pitcher is just trying to re-establish the plate with a particular hitter. C'est La Vie. Sometimes too, bad pitchers will try and throw a bean ball and just miss...

def_lazer_fc
8/16/2007, 08:00 PM
And Ryan was a total BAD A$$...He did play dirty form time to time, but why would anybody charge him?

i bet ventura asks himself that every day, being forever posterized and all.
and just to further your claim that ryan is indeed a bad ***, i just read in SI that he threw out the first pitch for some minor league game, and it was clocked at 85 mph. and what is that guy? like 64 years old?! :eek:

StuIsTheMan
8/16/2007, 08:03 PM
So your problem here is one of vocabulary. A brushback nearly always refers to an attempt to get the hitter off the plate. (And Scott is wrong, the pitcher does own the plate and must defend his ownership of the plate at all times).
Do you have any facts for this statemnet or is this just YOUR OPINION?:pop:


Brushbacks are not retaliatory pitches. Beanballs are. Sometimes brushbacks are interpreted as retailitory when in reality the pitcher is just trying to re-establish the plate with a particular hitter. C'est La Vie. Sometimes too, bad pitchers will try and throw a bean ball and just miss...

This is prolly what they teach crappy pitchers to say when they do hit someone huh..."opps he was standing to close"..."It's my Plate!, It's my plate!" Now this is just speculation since I have never EVAR had a conversation about or taught anything like what you are saying here man.

Ike
8/16/2007, 08:07 PM
Do you have any facts for this statemnet or is this just YOUR OPINION?:pop:



This is prolly what they teach crappy pitchers to say when they do hit someone huh..."opps he was standing to close"..."It's my Plate!, It's my plate!" Now this is just speculation since I have never EVAR had a conversation about or taught anything like what you are saying here man.

Probably because you never played baseball past HS.

Its hard enough to get HS pitchers to hit spots. Getting them to think about establishing zones and working the zone is like pulling teeth.

StuIsTheMan
8/16/2007, 08:11 PM
Probably because you never played baseball past HS.

Its hard enough to get HS pitchers to hit spots. Getting them to think about establishing zones and working the zone is like pulling teeth.

But still no facts huh?:pop:

I can live with that...Agree to disagree? :D

Ike
8/16/2007, 08:13 PM
tell ya what, you want facts? step in the box and I'll give you a free demonstrations. Be prepared to hit a lot of air. :D

Gandalf_The_Grey
8/16/2007, 08:14 PM
Personally I think pitchers should be able to kill one batter a game with a pistol as long as said batter is obviously on something or a minority

leftfield
8/16/2007, 08:20 PM
tell ya what, you want facts? step in the box and I'll give you a free demonstrations. Be prepared to hit a lot of air. :D
:D

StuIsTheMan
8/16/2007, 08:21 PM
tell ya what, you want facts? step in the box and I'll give you a free demonstrations. Be prepared to hit a lot of air. :D


Bring it on TOUGH GUY!:D

http://www.highimpactwrestling.com/Hacksaw%20Jim%20Duggan%20website%20pic.jpg

Scott D
8/17/2007, 09:40 AM
So your problem here is one of vocabulary. A brushback nearly always refers to an attempt to get the hitter off the plate. (And Scott is wrong, the pitcher does own the plate and must defend his ownership of the plate at all times). Brushbacks are not retaliatory pitches. Beanballs are. Sometimes brushbacks are interpreted as retailitory when in reality the pitcher is just trying to re-establish the plate with a particular hitter. C'est La Vie. Sometimes too, bad pitchers will try and throw a bean ball and just miss...

meh, Ike you are too much of a damn pitcher :P

technically the strike zone and home plate don't belong to either the batter or the pitcher, each is trying to establish dominance over that 12" of rubber in front of the catcher and umpire.

StuIsTheMan
8/17/2007, 10:24 AM
I thought we were done with this:rolleyes:

1stTimeCaller
8/17/2007, 10:44 AM
looks like someone brought their dull knife to a gun fight.

StuIsTheMan
8/17/2007, 10:49 AM
looks like someone brought their dull knife to a gun fight.

What you talk'n bout Willis?
http://keris.typepad.com/home/images/coleman.jpg

Ike
8/17/2007, 11:10 AM
meh, Ike you are too much of a damn pitcher :P

technically the strike zone and home plate don't belong to either the batter or the pitcher, each is trying to establish dominance over that 12" of rubber in front of the catcher and umpire.


Guilty. Oh, and it's 17" of rubber in front of the catcher and umpire. Just like a damn hitter to try to make it smaller.

StuIsTheMan
8/17/2007, 11:14 AM
Guilty. Oh, and it's 17" of rubber in front of the catcher and umpire. Just like a damn hitter to try to make it smaller.


Since when Is Mich Lite good at Baseball anyway?;)

Ike
8/17/2007, 11:24 AM
Mich Lite? Do you mean MSU? They have nothing to do with this discussion.

StuIsTheMan
8/17/2007, 11:33 AM
Mich Lite? Do you mean MSU? They have nothing to do with this discussion.


yeah same thing:D


Just look'n at your avatar is all;)

Ike
8/17/2007, 11:55 AM
Its there for other reasons. Primarily amongst them the fact that they sign my paychecks.

Tulsa_Fireman
8/17/2007, 12:09 PM
...Put words in people's mouth...

What's funny is that you're talking about putting balls on someone's chin.

I don't think those are words you got in your mouth, Stu.

HEY-OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

http://www.lifestyleslive.com/images/Ed_Photo.jpg

StuIsTheMan
8/17/2007, 12:11 PM
heh?:confused:

1stTimeCaller
8/17/2007, 12:15 PM
Stu's mad because the guys on his HS team put their balls on his chin!!!

Tulsa_Fireman
8/17/2007, 12:16 PM
No, no, no.

It's called "chin music", 1TC.

1stTimeCaller
8/17/2007, 12:20 PM
well, Stu was probably humming a tune
:pop:

;)

StuIsTheMan
8/17/2007, 12:20 PM
Stu's mad because the guys on his HS team put their balls on his chin!!!


who says I'm mad?


And nevar be the first one to pass out at a party...that is all I am saying:D

Cam
8/17/2007, 03:15 PM
I could go and make an entry that debunks that entirely...heck you prolly wrote this one didn't ya:D
Then your rebuttal would be as profoundly incorrect as your original statement.

Cam
8/17/2007, 03:19 PM
So your problem here is one of vocabulary. A brushback nearly always refers to an attempt to get the hitter off the plate. Brushbacks are not retaliatory pitches. Beanballs are. Sometimes brushbacks are interpreted as retailitory when in reality the pitcher is just trying to re-establish the plate with a particular hitter. C'est La Vie. Sometimes too, bad pitchers will try and throw a bean ball and just miss...
Exactly..

StuIsTheMan
8/17/2007, 03:19 PM
Then your rebuttal would be as profoundly incorrect as your original statement.


man your lucky I am on Thin Ice right now:pop:


Back to my meeting...

colleyvillesooner
8/17/2007, 03:24 PM
TOTP

Cam
8/17/2007, 04:42 PM
man your lucky I am on Thin Ice right now:pop:


Back to my meeting...
Um yeah, ok. You're lumping a brushback and a bean ball together was profoundly incorrect. Pretty obvious in quite a few peoples opinion. Hell, you even changed your stance on it from page one to page two.

Gandalf_The_Grey
8/18/2007, 05:57 AM
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a191/spiffyspud/sweetchinmusic.jpg

Did someone say sweet chin music?

jk the sooner fan
8/18/2007, 09:03 AM
there's an old saying about choosing your argument partners wisely......

i'll just leave it at that

StuIsTheMan
8/18/2007, 05:37 PM
Um yeah, ok. You're lumping a brushback and a bean ball together was profoundly incorrect. Pretty obvious in quite a few peoples opinion. Hell, you even changed your stance on it from page one to page two.

U no I (he) did not, read it again...I said always said that the intentional brushback or beanball was WRONG Non Matter What....Then I stated

in response to ScottD


I totaly agree on all counts here...I was (and always was) Talking about the Egotistical Jagoffs that "Brushback" or "Bean" because of a Previous homerun or other Ego bruisers he might have had in the past with teams or batters. that is all...Yeah if the Batter is leaning into the strike zone...HELL YAH Rifle one downthe pipe...if he gets hit, it's his problem...


and the change in opinion is...:pop:

Cam
8/19/2007, 09:00 AM
:rolleyes:

Cam
8/19/2007, 09:06 AM
If your a good Pitcher then why need a brushback...just strike him out big guy...I have never been a fan of the Brush back or bean ball... it's cheap and only used by those pitchers who can't get someone out on skill...:pop:
My apologies, it was your 2nd post.

For somebody who supposedly played competitive ball, I find it funny that you shat on a very legitimate tactic.

My guess is that your coaches weren't very good, or if you ever pitched, you weren't very good. The brush back has been around for many, many years and is a very legitimate tactic.

Charging the mound in HS or Little League ='s weak.