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View Full Version : Good Morning...It's Nuke Week!



Okla-homey
8/9/2007, 06:42 AM
Embrace the unspeakable horror and celebrate Peace thru Superior Firepower!

August 9, 1945: Second atomic bomb dropped on Nagasaki

http://aycu21.webshots.com/image/22620/2001856233230372661_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001856233230372661)

Sixty-two years ago on this day in 1945, a second atom bomb is dropped on Japan by the United States, at Nagasaki, resulting finally in Japan's unconditional surrender.

The devastation wrought at Hiroshima was not sufficient to convince the Japanese War Council to accept the Potsdam Conference's demand for unconditional surrender. The United States had already planned to drop their second atom bomb, nicknamed "Fat Man," on August 11 in the event of such recalcitrance, but bad weather expected for that day pushed the date up to August 9th.

http://aycu19.webshots.com/image/23698/2006058621443105138_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2006058621443105138)

So at 1:56 in the morning, a specially adapted B-29 bomber, called "Bock's Car," after its usual commander, Frederick Bock, took off from Tinian Island in the Northern Marianas under the command of Maj. Charles W. Sweeney. They faced an approximately 9 hour flight to the target city.

http://aycu15.webshots.com/image/23654/2001892909205134261_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001892909205134261)
The crew. Standing: Capt. Beahan, Capt. Van Pelt, Lt. Albury, Lt. Olivi, Maj. Sweeney. Kneeling: S/Sgt Buckley, M/Sgt Kuharek, Sgt Gallagher, S/Sgt De Hart, Sgt Spitzer

Nagasaki was a shipbuilding center, the very industry intended for destruction, because without ships, the island nation was harmless to the Pacific rim countries. The bomb was dropped at 11:02 a.m., 1,650 feet above the city.

http://aycu25.webshots.com/image/24144/2006010731445540487_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2006010731445540487)
The mushroom cloud topped 60 thousand feet

The 22KT explosion unleashed the equivalent force of 22,000 tons of TNT. The hills that surrounded the city did a better job of containing the destructive force than at Hiroshima, but the number killed is estimated at anywhere between 60,000 and 80,000 (exact figures are impossible, the blast having obliterated bodies and disintegrated records).

http://aycu15.webshots.com/image/23654/2001867093062140576_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001867093062140576)
Ground zero

General Leslie R. Groves, the man responsible for organizing the Manhattan Project, which solved the problem of producing and delivering the nuclear explosion, estimated that another atom bomb would be ready to use against Japan by August 17 or 18-but it was not necessary.

http://aycu06.webshots.com/image/24245/2001869901269292054_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001869901269292054)

http://aycu35.webshots.com/image/22994/2001860157306025338_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001860157306025338)
Nagasaki before and after shots

Even though the Imperial War Council still remained divided ("It is far too early to say that the war is lost," opined the Minister of War), Emperor Hirohito, by request of two War Council members eager to end the war, met with the Council and declared that "continuing the war can only result in the annihilation of the Japanese people...." The Emperor of Japan gave his permission for unconditional surrender and with that, the Japanese people collectively threw in the towel, obviating the need for bloody invasion of the home islands by the Allies.

Over the years, there have been various academics who have posited the use of nukes versus Japan was unnecessary because they were already on the ropes. IMHO, those folks need to do a bit more study, focused on the Okinawa Campaign which finally concluded in June 1945, only about two months prior to the two atomic bombings. In addition to your correspondent, a prominent holder of this view is Victor Davis Hanson, who states it explicitly in his book Ripples of Battle:


...because the Japanese on Okinawa, including native Okinawans, were so fierce in their defense (even when cut off, and without supplies), and because casualties were so appalling, many American strategists looked for an alternative means to subdue mainland Japan, other than a direct invasion. This means presented itself, with the advent of atomic bombs, which worked admirably in convincing the Japanese to sue for peace, without American casualties.

Ironically, the American conventional fire-bombing of major Japanese cities (which had been going on for months before Okinawa) was far more effective at killing civilians than the atomic bombs and, had the Americans simply continued, or expanded this, the Japanese would likely have surrendered anyway. Nevertheless, the bombs were a powerful symbolic display of American power, and the Japanese capitulated, obviating the need for an invasion of the home islands.

http://aycu18.webshots.com/image/24377/2001844688233943821_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001844688233943821)
US "Shermans" knocked out by Japanese artillery on Okinawa

In 1945, Winston Churchill called the Okinawa battle "among the most intense and famous in military history."

Finally, to put the 22KT Nagasaki bomb in perspective, know that the explosive yield of a nuclear weapon is the amount of energy, called the yield, discharged when a nuclear weapon is detonated, expressed usually in the equivalent mass of trinitrotoluene (TNT), either in kilotons (thousands of tons of TNT) or megatons (millions of tons of TNT). Also note that full blast effects would extend many times beyond the fireball itself.

http://aycu19.webshots.com/image/22738/2006065622417087350_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2006065622417087350)
The gravity weapon with which your correspondent had the most experience during his heady days in the Strategic Air Command was the relatively sleek classic B61 nuclear bomb; Mod 7 (up to 350KT = Nagasaki x18); Mod 10 -- 4 selectible yield options: 0.3KT, 1.5KT, 60KT (= Nagasaki x3), 170KT (= Nagasaki x8); and Mod 11(undisclosed yield). We still have quite a few in storage. This one is undergoing inspection and routine maintenance by SAC bomb wing munitions troops. BTW, the tail cone (with the fins) popped off at a certian point during delivery and a parachute popped out. That parachute retarded the fall and theoretically allowed us to GTF away (at 9 miles per minute) before she blew.

http://aycu31.webshots.com/image/24110/2006079174670410235_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2006079174670410235)
The biggest gravity nuke we had was the B53 nuclear bomb. At 9MT (that's the destructive equivalent of nine million tons of TNT) it was most powerful US warhead; no longer in active service, but 50 are retained as part of the "Hedge" portion of the Enduring Stockpile; similar to the W-53 warhead that has been used in the Titan II Missile, decommissioned in 1987.

http://aycu15.webshots.com/image/23374/2001868678383491347_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001868678383491347)

sooner n houston
8/9/2007, 08:06 AM
Bombs away!!!

85Sooner
8/9/2007, 08:19 AM
HOw do we send thus post to iran?

TUSooner
8/9/2007, 08:31 AM
Let the hand-wringing hind-sighting begin!

I have an ancient colleague who has often reported the great rejoicing that went on at the naval training center when he and the rest of the recruits destined for the Japan invasion force learned that the Bombs had been dropped.

I must say those "before and after" pics are very sobering.

OUDoc
8/9/2007, 08:35 AM
I must say those "before and after" pics are very sobering.
Yeah. I don't know how the Japanese thought they could beat us at that point.

SoonerStormchaser
8/9/2007, 09:02 AM
...the big bang took and shook the world, shot down the rising sun...the end was begun, it would hit everyone when the chain reaction was done...


On a personal note, I've been to both Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It was fifteen years ago (I was 9 at the time), but it amazed me how different the atmospheres of the respective museums were. In Nagasaki, the tone was "look what America did to us." But in Hiroshima, the tone was a "never again" type.

VeeJay
8/9/2007, 09:12 AM
I had a crusty old professor in college who'd served in the Pacific in WW2. Some of the left-leaning students took him to task a couple of times on the United States' use of atomic weapons to end the war. The professor/veteran's response was that yes, it was a horrible thing to unleash on Japan and the world, but it was a last resort. "How many more of our boys would have died, because we were getting ready to put troops in Japan?" he asked.

Thanks to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the crusty old prof. came back in one piece, and taught me college level biology.

We don't have a stomach for nuking bad folks any more. We have a serious presidential candidate who vows to remove the nuclear option; under no circumstances will the U.S. resort to nuclear weapons under his administration. This is why rogue states like Venezuela and Iran, and renegades like al-Qaeda do not fear us as a Superpower.

Phil
8/9/2007, 09:13 AM
On a personal note, I've been to both Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It was fifteen years ago (I was 9 at the time), but it amazed me how different the atmospheres of the respective museums were. In Nagasaki, the tone was "look what America did to us." But in Hiroshima, the tone was a "never again" type.

I haven't been to Nagasaki, but I definitely got a big feeling of "Look what America did to us" in the Hiroshima museum, in addition to the "never again."

Taxman71
8/9/2007, 09:19 AM
There is a documentary on HBO right now titled "White" about both A-bombs. Very good watch. Interestingly, those cities are now thriving and their youth don't seem to know much about the bombings. Also, the survivors interviewed didn't appear too bitter at the USA either (which is just since we only got involved after they literally Pearl Harbor-ed us).

MojoRisen
8/9/2007, 09:28 AM
It's too bad, but they were with the NAZI's and attacked us with out provoking.

They also fought with hat Bonzai approach and started the suicide bombings in the world - at this point which is worse????

jeremy885
8/9/2007, 09:39 AM
I have an ancient colleague who has often reported the great rejoicing that went on at the naval training center when he and the rest of the recruits destined for the Japan invasion force learned that the Bombs had been dropped.



My Grandfather was probably one of them. He had completed his naval basic training when we dropped the bombs.

frankensooner
8/9/2007, 10:02 AM
My pops was stationed in India at the time. Very possibly I wouldn't be here today, if not for fat man and little boy. (oh, and whats up with the triple post?)

OUDoc
8/9/2007, 10:12 AM
Did anyone have a crusty old professor in college who'd served in the Pacific in WW2?

VeeJay
8/9/2007, 10:17 AM
That's never happened before.

OUDoc
8/9/2007, 10:25 AM
:D

I tell my wife that all the time. :D

Pricetag
8/9/2007, 12:26 PM
There is a documentary on HBO right now titled "White" about both A-bombs. Very good watch. Interestingly, those cities are now thriving and their youth don't seem to know much about the bombings. Also, the survivors interviewed didn't appear too bitter at the USA either (which is just since we only got involved after they literally Pearl Harbor-ed us).
I saw that in the listing the other night. The full title is "White Light, Black Rain." I have managed to avoid watching thus far.

OklahomaTuba
8/9/2007, 12:33 PM
My boss was on a business trip with a colleague in Japan a few years ago. This guy that was with him was known to be a complete jackarse.

Anywhoo, he made a crack about "nuking their asses" to some Japanese they were working with.

Next day, when the Japanese guys picked my boss and the jackass from the hotel, the car made its way to Hiroshima and the ground zero monument.

The Japanese guys picked them up about 2-3 hours later.

TUSooner
8/9/2007, 12:43 PM
My boss was on a business trip with a colleague in Japan a few years ago. This guy that was with him was known to be a complete jackarse.

Anywhoo, he made a crack about "nuking their asses" to some Japanese they were working with.

Next day, when the Japanese guys picked my boss and the jackass from the hotel, the car made its way to Hiroshima and the ground zero monument.

The Japanese guys picked them up about 2-3 hours later.
Well. I can see it's not really a joking matter. OTOH, the Japanese "poor victims" dealio just doesn't fly. Sure it was horrible. So was Dresden. I'm sure the blitz of London was no picnic either, or the rape of Nanking, or the Bataan Death March, or the Final Solution, or... well, how about we just agree that "All of WWII pretty much sucked baboon plonkers from a human kindness standpoint." ?

MojoRisen
8/9/2007, 12:55 PM
Japan sided with the Nazi's - created sucide bombings -

Picture them as Nazi's and it doesn't really bother you as much that we brought them to their knees and then backed off and helped them rebuild.

Nuking them saved more lives for Japan than it took and - a lot of Americans. I don't think we take mainland Japan as easy as someone suggested with the fire bombs. They were crazy - even the peasants

SicEmBaylor
8/9/2007, 12:59 PM
My grandfather was in the 1st Cav. in WWII and fought from New Guinea to the Philippines. I never heard him complain about the bomb, and I'm reasonably certain that I would value his life above that of a million or more Japanese.

We were discussing this one day in a history class, and generally everyone agreed that the bomb was totally justified but with the caveat that nobody knew exactly what the result of dropping the bomb on a city would be or that it would spark a 50 year nuclear arms race. I had no such caveat and offered the opinion that we should have dropped a 3rd one to ram the point home except we'd be wasting an extra bomb we should have dropped over Moscow at the same time.

My opinion was not widely shared.

SoonerBorn68
8/9/2007, 01:00 PM
Read about the rape of Nanking, or John Bradley's "Flyboys". The Japanese military was subhuman at best.

With less than 500 prisoners taken from Guadacanal to Okinawa nuking them was the only answer.

The Japanese can change their history books & cry about this all they want but the truth is they were the most barbaric race of the 20th century.

SicEmBaylor
8/9/2007, 01:02 PM
Japan sided with the Nazi's - created sucide bombings -

Picture them as Nazi's and it doesn't really bother you as much that we brought them to their knees and then backed off and helped them rebuild.

Nuking them saved more lives for Japan than it took and - a lot of Americans. I don't think we take mainland Japan as easy as someone suggested with the fire bombs. They were crazy - even the peasants

In the sole context of our war against Japan, you shouldn't even compare them to the Nazis. With exceptions here and there, the Nazis generally treated American POWs well and by the Geneva convention (again I say generally). The Japanese, however, routinely beat, tortured, and used American POWs as slave labor. The only comparison between the Germans and Japanese that would be valid is comparing the German treatment of "undesirable peoples" with the Japanese treatment of American POWs.

StuIsTheMan
8/9/2007, 01:03 PM
My grandfather was in the 1st Cav. in WWII and fought from New Guinea to the Philippines. I never heard him complain about the bomb, and I'm reasonably certain that I would value his life above that of a million or more Japanese.

We were discussing this one day in a history class, and generally everyone agreed that the bomb was totally justified but with the caveat that nobody knew exactly what the result of dropping the bomb on a city would be or that it would spark a 50 year nuclear arms race. I had no such caveat and offered the opinion that we should have dropped a 3rd one to ram the point home except we'd be wasting an extra bomb we should have dropped over Moscow at the same time.

My opinion was not widely shared.


I share your view Sic'Em....(ugh)


If somebody asked me, if we should have bombed Japan, a simple yes, by all means, drop that fu**er, twice


http://www.americanrhetoric.com/images/genehackmancrimsontidemovie.jpg


There I put in the right spot...happy VK:D

Okla-homey
8/9/2007, 01:38 PM
HOw do we send thus post to iran?

Let's just hope those Persian so-and-so's don't figure out a way to get one over here. Or Jerusalem.

That's the thing. As horrible as these things are, the notion of nuclear deterence kept the the Cold War from going hot because we faced an adversary who knew well that mutually assured destruction attended any use of nukes.

I am afraid we now face an adversary who wouldn't mind popping one in the US even if they were certain of retaliation. That's what religious fanaticism does when added to the mix. The notion you are doing the will of the Almighty by striking at His enemies has caused a lot of suffering throughout history.

Personally, and speaking as person of faith, I find the concept absurd. Even if you are not religious, consider the premise of an all powerful being for a moment. The belief an omnipotent God needs the help of puny humanity to snuff anyone or anything He wants snuffed is a non-sequiter of the first order and foolish in the extreme. To me at least.

Afterall, He has at His control lightning, earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, famine, drought and storms. Heck, He could make it rain flaming gobs of spaghetti if He wanted. Why Achmed believes he's called to wipe out any who eschew Islam is utter nonsense. Dangerous? Destabilizing? Absolutely. But founded on mental midgit-ism.

StuIsTheMan
8/9/2007, 01:55 PM
Personally, and speaking as person of faith, I find the concept absurd. Even if you are not religious, consider the premise of an all powerful being for a moment. The belief an omnipotent God needs the help of puny humanity to snuff anyone or anything He wants snuffed is a non-sequiter of the first order and foolish in the extreme. To me at least.

Afterall, He has at His control lightning, earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, famine, drought and storms. Heck, He could make it rain flaming gobs of spaghetti if He wanted. Why Achmed believes he's called to wipe out any who eschew Islam is utter nonsense. Dangerous? Destabilizing? Absolutely. But founded on mental midgit-ism.


So by your example "god" has a plan for Al-Queda or us?...I don't buy it...I refuse to believe I am part of some higher beings game of SimCity...
the way I see it is that "god" is only as powerfull as the convictions of those who believe in him (it).

TexasLidig8r
8/9/2007, 02:02 PM
And yet Tuba.. the militant Islamic faction are just as steadfast.. if not more so than most Western Christian types, that they acts they do in the name of God, is indeed the true path to enlightenment.

During the Crusades, the mantra of "Killing an Infidel is not Murder, tis the path to enlightenment" was adopted by the church. in today's society, followers of Islam, believers in the Koran, find passages which can easily be interpreted to mean, "kill non-believers." For example, ". . . fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)."

As believers in Western Civilization and Judeo-Christian beliefs, that view is repugnant.. we wonder how "civilized peoples can adhere to such teachings." And yet... dying in the name of Allah is an everyday occurrence... They TRULY believe that is their path to heaven.

As for the Japanese victim complex... if taken to the Hiroshima Memorial, I would say, ok.. great, let's visit Pearl Harbor... then the Bataan peninsula.. then? oh. those were soldiers? Ok, let's talk about civilians...oh . how about Nanking.. or the approximate 3.9 MILLION Chinese civilians killed by the Japanese... or the Manilla massacre in which 100,000 civilians were put to death.. or.. I know. let's talk about Unit 731 where civilians and POWS were used as guinea pigs to test biological weapons.. or amputations and vivisections were performed without anesthesia.. or the use of chemical weapons in China in 1938.

The milk of human kindness does not run deep in my soul when it comes to Japanese Victim Complex... and the pansy *** politicians are too afraid of NOT being PC when the issue comes up. humphhh...

Pricetag
8/9/2007, 02:05 PM
So by your example "god" has a plan for Al-Queda or us?...I don't buy it...I refuse to believe I am part of some higher beings game of SimCity...
the way I see it is that "god" is only as powerfull as the convictions of those who believe in him (it).
The game is just called "City."

Okla-homey
8/9/2007, 05:42 PM
So by your example "god" has a plan for Al-Queda or us?...I don't buy it...I refuse to believe I am part of some higher beings game of SimCity...
the way I see it is that "god" is only as powerfull as the convictions of those who believe in him (it).

It's really of no moment whether you believe God has a plan for us all. He does. The thing is, He loves us enough to grant us free will to do what we want. If it were any other way, then, it would be "Sim City."

StuIsTheMan
8/9/2007, 06:06 PM
It's really of no moment whether you believe God has a plan for us all. He does. The thing is, He loves us enough to grant us free will to do what we want. If it were any other way, then, it would be "Sim City."

That's why I do not associate with ANY RELIGION...Contradiction after contradiction.

I chose to live by the Karma plan...which if I do that right should get me in, if "it" really exists to begin with...

Now before you all go "He's an Athiest" on me hear me out. I am a huge believer that the power of suggestion has incredible power over the human mind. Let me put it like this...my "Ichiro Theory" on the feelings people get at church...
You know that feeling you get at church, the hand of god or what have you. I have felt this sensation at church a few times myself...kind of exciting...
now are you the only one around you that feels that way...No the entire congregation is up on their feet with their hands in the air and waven them like they just don't care...Even the visitors that just came cause their girlfriend wanted them to are doing it. it's almost like...

ALDS and you got 1st row 3rd base line seats at SafeCo (Insert your team and stadium here) 2 outs, bottom of the ninth, down by one with a runner on 2nd...and up steps Mr. Money, Ichiro Suzuki. At this time everyone feels the anticipation of yet another game saving hit by Ichiro...

Strike one...The moans are quickly deafened by the chears once again...

Strike two...The crowd starts their chant Ich I Ro, Ich I RO...

The pitcher may take a sec to get his composure but you know...YOU KNOW...Ichiro is gonna hit it out...Even your wife has joined you, as she finaly peels away from the book she's been reading the entire game, on your feet chanting when all of a sudden the ball is pitched and hit by Ichiro down the left field line and there is that second or two when your heart is in your throat...and your watching the ball go...go...GONE!

The place goes nuts, your kissing some old blue hair lady next to ya that's been stink'n up the joint the entire game but you don't care cause THAT WAS FREAKING AWSOME!

Same thing...discuss...:pop:


(never mind the spelling error...you let doleo get away with it)

MojoRisen
8/9/2007, 06:12 PM
All I know that we need to polygraph all suspicious Muslims. There I said it- if they don't like it - stand up and do something about the moron's in your religion who are trying to end the world so they can go to heaven with 40 virgins who have no rights even in heaven.

That is all....

StuIsTheMan
8/9/2007, 07:52 PM
All I know that we need to polygraph all suspicious Muslims. There I said it- if they don't like it - stand up and do something about the moron's in your religion who are trying to end the world so they can go to heaven with 40 virgins who have no rights even in heaven.

That is all....

Try this...
Prove your not an Extreme Fundamentalist Muslim Terrorist Day...EMFT Day for short...


As you may already know, it is a sin for a EMFT male to see any
woman other than his wife naked, and that he must commit suicide if he
does. So next Saturday at 4 PM. Eastern Time all American women are
asked to walk out of their house completely naked to help weed out any
neighborhood EMFT's. Circling your block for one hour is
recommended for this anti-terrorist effort.

All men are to position themselves in lawn chairs in front of their
house to prove they are not EMFT's, and to demonstrate they think it's
okay to see nude women other than their wife and to show support for all
American women.

Since EMFT's do not approve of alcohol, a cold 6-pack at your
side is further proof of your anti-EMFT sentiment.

The American government appreciates your efforts to root out
terrorists and applauds your participation in this anti-terrorist
activity.

God Bless Americahttp://www.slickdawg.com/images/smilies/pop.gif


(Originally posted on Slick's sight by me:D )

SicEmBaylor
8/9/2007, 07:56 PM
I hear Japanese women have a slanted..err nevermind.

StuIsTheMan
8/10/2007, 12:15 AM
I hear Japanese women have a slanted..err nevermind.

You have no clue what Japanese women have Sick'Em. Come on. And if you did it would be hear say.:D

olevetonahill
8/10/2007, 12:58 AM
I hear Japanese women have a slanted..err nevermind.
They Also have Razor blades Up in em to err never mind