756*

[Ike]

there it is.

[Paperclip]

He crushed that. Looked like you pitched it. ;)

[usmc-sooner]

he's no Hank

[jk the sooner fan]

that was a decent message by Hank......nice to see that, very gracious

[bluedogok]

They had a highlight during the Red Sox-Angels game. What was Hank's message? We didn't get that.

[jk the sooner fan]

it was a pre-recorded message played on the big screen, just said congrats, etc etc

[OKC-SLC]

Hank > Barry.


In other news:

More > Less.

[Suerreal]

Yawn. Glad that's over with.

[olevetonahill]

MEH , Hank is Honest

[SelmaBamaFan]

I see what you did there...

[Ike]

He crushed that. Looked like you pitched it. ;)
heh. if I'd a thrown it, he'd have just fouled that one off ;)

[SoonerBOI]

************************************************** ****

[IronSooner]

meh

Maybe by this time next week the commentary will die down some...come on football season

[GrapevineSooner]

The BaD Radio curse strikes, again!

[VeeJay]

While Barry Bonds has rounded the home stretch, the younger Alex Rodriguez is just gearing up.

[rufnek05]

he's a ****** bag. if i caught that ball, i wouldn't even give it back to him. i would probably seal it in a concrete block and sink it to the bottom ocean, thats what i think of him and this new* record.

[olevetonahill]

he's a ****** bag. if i caught that ball, i wouldn't even give it back to him. i would probably seal it in a concrete block and sink it to the bottom ocean, thats what i think of him and this new* record.
I dislike him also But I like Green, Id sell it as fast as you can say E-Bay :D

[rufnek05]

I dislike him also But I like Green, Id sell it as fast as you can say E-Bay :D
i don't know if i could sell it. it wouldn't be money to me, it would be a pile of ****. i'm a huge baseball fan, and bonds just makes the whole sport look bad.

[olevetonahill]

i don't know if i could sell it. it wouldn't be money to me, it would be a pile of ****. i'm a huge baseball fan, and bonds just makes the whole sport look bad.
I see Green , You see brown
Get that Mofo and Give it to me .:D :D

[rufnek05]

haha. let me get on my private plane and go steal it from the dude that caught it.

[setem]

Bonds' 756 ball! on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Bonds-756-Home-Run-Ball_W0QQitemZ170137047214QQihZ007QQcategoryZ27260 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

I hate that POS! I wished the pro pitchers had pulled together and walked him for the rest of his career!

[VeeJay]

Is he still juicing?

When does the head explode?

[hookem31]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a109/hookem31/forum%20pics/136533815v1_240x240_Front.jpg

[Scott D]

he's a ****** bag. if i caught that ball, i wouldn't even give it back to him. i would probably seal it in a concrete block and sink it to the bottom ocean, thats what i think of him and this new* record.

please, the entire board knows your *** would sell it to anyone so you could score more weed.

[Scott D]

I'm personally glad he finally hit it. Now the sports world (espn) can move on to something else just as insignificant as following him around and make it seem like it's a life altering occasion.

[SoonerStormchaser]

Who gives a ****? I have never seen Bonds hit a HR in my life, unless it was on Sports Center. As far as I'm concerned, him, McGwire, Sosa...and Selig can all rot in baseball hell for what they've "allegedly" done (or in Selig's case, not done) to the sport.

[jk the sooner fan]

I'm personally glad he finally hit it. Now the sports world (espn) can move on to something else just as insignificant as following him around and make it seem like it's a life altering occasion.

agreed

you know what i think would be funny as hell, if he had hit the HR in another ball park and the fan that caught it scribed a big asterisk on the ball and then simply gave it back to him.......heh

[Harry Beanbag]

Go AROD. Now it's time for football.

[jk the sooner fan]

Go AROD.

exactly, i'm now a BIG Arod fan

[sanantoniosooner]

Arod was in Jose's sights for his next book. We'll see what comes of that.

[slickdawg]

exactly, i'm now a BIG Arod fan

I have been cause he's the one with the best odds to take that crown back.


FUBB.


Hank Aaron is a classy dude. Barry Bonds is all ***.

[springs sooner]

i ate 7 tacos last night.

[OUDoc]

756*
Barry Bonds new hat size? :confused:

[sanantoniosooner]

I think they should remove all records from the "steroid era" and let those guys have their own HOF with the F being Freaks.

[Mjcpr]

http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/resources/2007/01/bondspirates.jpg

[IronSooner]

Who's that? His dad? ;)

[colleyvillesooner]

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7351/untitledoc3.jpg

[Taxman71]

All this means is that statistical records in baseball will now be meaningless compared to what they once were. It will become the equivalent of who holds the single-season TD record in the NFL...who? how many? who cares.

Besides, numbers don't mean what they used to. Does anybody honestly put Emmitt Smith in the top 5 of NFL backs of all time just b/c he holds the career rushing record? Doubtful.

Bonds' records will be look at historically the same way the eastern Europe women's Olympic records from the 70's are viewed. Impossible to match without steroids, etc.

[jk the sooner fan]

Does anybody honestly put Emmitt Smith in the top 5 of NFL backs of all time just b/c he holds the career rushing record? Doubtful.



yes, absolutely......many others do as well

[colleyvillesooner]

I'm one.

[Taxman71]

The elite:
Barry Sanders
Walter Payton
Jim Brown

The battle for the next 2 spots:
Gayle Sayres
Emmitt Smith
OJ Simpson
Eric Dickerson

I would Emmitt behind everyone else on that list. But he could be as high as #4 or 5 for some.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Boo...Hiss...

Hank Aaron/Babe Ruth always the greatest.

[sanantoniosooner]

Dallas fans put Emmitt at the top?

Shocking ;)

[Mjcpr]

Dallas fans put Emmitt at the top?

Shocking ;)

Well, them and the record books.

;)

[colleyvillesooner]

He's not the best ever, but he's Top 5.

[GrapevineSooner]

About as shocking as putting Tim Duncan in the Top 5 of all-time power forwards in NBA history. ;)

[achiro]

Boo...Hiss...

Hank Aaron/Babe Ruth always the greatest.
Are you serious? By pretty much any historical account I've ever seen Ruth was an *** with some very serious personal issues.

I really don't have a dog in this fight but saw an interesting debate on a forum with some former pro ball players. Most agreed that the media rips him because he has never really worked with them, is an *** to them. They said the real question would be how his team mates view him. If they think he is an *** then he is. Made sense to me.

As far as the roid issue, has there ever been any proof other than he said/she said stuff? I really don't know because I don't follow it. As far as his size, I am a lot different than I was at 20(even hat size)and I've never used so I'm not sure that is proof.:pop:

[colleyvillesooner]

Are you serious? By pretty much any historical account I've ever seen Ruth was an *** with some very serious personal issues.

I really don't have a dog in this fight but saw an interesting debate on a forum with some former pro ball players. Most agreed that the media rips him because he has never really worked with them, is an *** to them. They said the real question would be how his team mates view him. If they think he is an *** then he is. Made sense to me.

As far as the roid issue, has there ever been any proof other than he said/she said stuff? I really don't know because I don't follow it. As far as his size, I am a lot different than I was at 20(even hat size)and I've never used so I'm not sure that is proof.:pop:

He admitted to unknowingly taking "clear" and "cream". What kind of professional athlete, who's career rides on how their body performs and holds up, puts somthing into their body that they don't know what it's gonna do.

Bonds never hit 50 home runs before or after he hit 73.


So you went from this to this?
http://r_harrison.tripod.com/Agonist/BarryBonds.jpg

[achiro]

He admitted to unknowingly taking "clear" and "cream". What kind of professional athlete, who's career rides on how their body performs and holds up, puts somthing into their body that they don't know what it's gonna do.
I don't know, you tell me how many pro atheletes have had trainers/doctors inject **** into their knees, shoulders or whatever to "keep them going" over the years? Sound fishy to me but like I said I don't keep up with stuff so i don't know aything about what he said.



So you went from this to this?
http://r_harrison.tripod.com/Agonist/BarryBonds.jpg
How old is he in each of those pictures?

[colleyvillesooner]

Batting Average:
1986 - 1999 = .287.
2000 - 2004 = .341, topping out at .370 in 2002

Slugging Percentage:
1986 - 1999 = .561.
2000 - 2004 = .782, topping out at .863 in 2001

[colleyvillesooner]

Age 22:

http://www.jasmbiz.com/login/images/upload/barry_bonds_mint_9.jpg

Age 37
http://www2.jsonline.com/sports/brew/image/2001/july/bonds0706.jpg

[achiro]

So you are saying that at a defining point in his life, he decided to start taking things serious, hired a life coach, a personal trainer and a nutritionist. Those changes in his daily habits, food intake, and weight training allowed him to gain confidence, concentration, strength, and stamina. That combined with a few years experience in MLB allowed him to excell in ways he was unable to before.:D

[colleyvillesooner]

That, or he stated jucing like ****ing crazy. I'll take the latter.

I'm gonna punch you through your screen. :mad:

[colleyvillesooner]

http://boortz.com/images/congrats_barry_bonds.jpg

[achiro]

That, or he stated jucing like ****ing crazy. I'll take the latter.

I'm gonna punch you through your screen. :mad::D

Now seriously,
in 15 years, particularly from the age of 22 to the age of 37, lots of people change in size and strength. I would be interested to see if there was a rapid change in size over a one, maybe two, year period or was it gradual over all that time?
As far as the stats divided at 2000. Was there a significant change in just that one year or was it a gradual change with just a "convenient" break off point between 99 an 00 to make the averages seem that drastically different? and if it was really that drastic, was there a change in coaching staff, a hitting coach or something that changed his swing?

[SoonerAtKU]

heh. if I'd a thrown it, he'd have just fouled that one off ;)

If I'd a thrown it, he'd still be picking cowhide out of his eyebrows.

[dolemitesooner]

i don't know if i could sell it. it wouldn't be money to me, it would be a pile of ****. i'm a huge baseball fan, and bonds just makes the whole sport look bad.
No your sport makes your Sport look bad. Blame Selig, Blame Tony Larussa, and every one ****ing else. The blame does not lie on Barry's Soliders. He is the greatest player of this generation and he played the game you love the way all the other guys did during this genration.

[dolemitesooner]

Age 22:

http://www.jasmbiz.com/login/images/upload/barry_bonds_mint_9.jpg

Age 37
http://www2.jsonline.com/sports/brew/image/2001/july/bonds0706.jpg
Have you gained wight as you have gotten older?

I am so sick of this ****. You know if you don't like barry thats fine I dont liek alot of guys I hate the ****ing Dallas Cowboys but you know what I respect them. Micheal Irvin it has been says has had a drug problem but he goes into the hall and I thought the guy was great and I respect him.

Have you seen barry shoot up?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

From the Onion :P





MLB To Place Asterisk, Pound Sign, Exclamation Point, Letter 'F' Next To Bonds' Name In Record Books

May 25, 2006 | Onion Sports (http://www.theonion.com/content/sports)

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SAN FRANCISCO— Commissioner Bud Selig announced Wednesday that, once the Giants slugger retires, his name in the official MLB record books will be forever accompanied by an asterisk, followed by a pound sign and exclamation point, all preceded by the letter 'F'—a string of characters that, according to Selig, "will always be associated with Barry Bonds."
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"When my children's grandchildren open up their Baseball Almanac a hundred years from now, they'll see this enduring, universally understood symbol right next to Barry's name," Selig said. "And when they do, they'll immediately know that this sequence of characters—F*#!—reflects history's attitude toward not only the conditions under which he was able to hit his home runs, but also the historical implications he had on the game and its records, the relationship he had with the media and fans during his momentous chase, and just the general atmosphere of baseball in an era he will come to embody."
"These symbols say more about Barry Bonds and his contributions to this sport than any mere number ever could," Selig added.
The decision, which Selig characterized as the only way to accurately convey that Barry Bonds hit his 714-plus home runs under "some pretty goddamn special circumstances," is reminiscent of a similar one made in 1961 by then-commissioner Ford Frick. Frick suggested that an asterisk be placed next to Roger Maris' single-season home-run record of 61, an annotation used to explain that Maris hit his home runs over the course of an expanded 162-game season rather than a 154-game season.
According to Selig, the symbol that will be placed next to Bonds' name requires no further explanation.
"When people think of Roger Maris, they immediately think 'asterisk,'" Selig said. "And when people of this and future generations think of Barry Bonds, they will immediately think F*#!"
Most experts, fans, teammates, and those close to the seven-time MVP say that, while Maris was never able to adjust to the stigma of being remembered as a historical footnote, Bonds is already used to constantly hearing the phrase "F*#!" everywhere he goes.
Baseball fans around the country have applauded Selig's decision, with many agreeing that Bonds' accomplishments deserve to be emphasized in such a fashion, and with some even vehemently insisting that his name be accompanied by an even longer string of symbols and letters.
"The first thing I said when I saw Bonds hit No. 714 was, 'Aww, F*#!'" said Oakland resident Roger Jaffe, who was in attendance at the game during which Bonds tied Ruth, and who claims to have heard many fans mutter the exact same thing. "But the more I think about it, there are at least a thousand other variations on it that may be even more appropriate to describe Bonds and his career."
All-time home-run leader Hank Aaron contacted the chairman of the Society for American Baseball Research's records committee, saying that, should Bonds approach his home-run total of 755, he would like "some input as to what appears next to Bonds' name."
"I have been thinking about this for quite some time, and I have upwards of 200 very good suggestions that I think they might like to hear," Aaron said.
Major League Baseball has specified that the 'F'–asterisk–pound sign–exclamation point symbol will only appear next to Bonds' name in the all-time home-run category, with his name in other categories to be accompanied by symbols more fitting for that particular one, including: an "at" symbol, two dollar signs, a pound sign, an asterisk, and Nos. 1 and 3 (@$$#*13) next to his single-season home-run total of 73; two series of five asterisks—the first preceded by the letter 'M' and the second preceded by the letter 'F' (M***** F*****)—next to his single-season slugging-percentage record of .863; and a sequence of letters reading "The bastard used to be pretty goddamn good in his own right without the ****ing steroids" next to his eight Gold Glove Awards.
"F*#! Barry Bonds, 714 F*#!^&% home runs," Selig said, reading a line out of the most updated version of this year's record book. "F*#! Barry Bonds."

[dolemitesooner]

Boo...Hiss...

Hank Aaron/Babe Ruth always the greatest.
Not anymore.

[colleyvillesooner]

:D

Now seriously,
in 15 years, particularly from the age of 22 to the age of 37, lots of people change in size and strength. I would be interested to see if there was a rapid change in size over a one, maybe two, year period or was it gradual over all that time?
As far as the stats divided at 2000. Was there a significant change in just that one year or was it a gradual change with just a "convenient" break off point between 99 an 00 to make the averages seem that drastically different? and if it was really that drastic, was there a change in coaching staff, a hitting coach or something that changed his swing?

I just grabbed 2000 - 2004 cause those were the outliers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=1785

How many baseball players get WAY better from 36-40? Those are the stats I'd like to see.

[colleyvillesooner]

Have you gained wight as you have gotten older?

I am so sick of this ****. You know if you don't like barry thats fine I dont liek alot of guys I hate the ****ing Dallas Cowboys but you know what I respect them. Micheal Irvin it has been says has had a drug problem but he goes into the hall and I thought the guy was great and I respect him.

Have you seen barry shoot up?

Respect Barry all you want. But anyone that's says "He never tested positive, he was never indicted, no one ever saw him do it" is kidding themselves.

He was a great player before, and still is. He was a Hall of Famer based on everything before al the steroid talk started. But this record is tainted.

[CUinNC]

THE premier record in US sports falls and I couldnt be more thrilled that Barry Bonds, who I copnsider to be an American hero broke it. Up yours media. You created this BS mess yourself. Where were you when Mcgwire hit 62 and was beefed up? Barely a peep, thats where. Screw you racist bastages.:D

Way to go Bonds. :pop:

[dolemitesooner]

exactly, i'm now a BIG Arod fanYeah I will bet Because you know for a fact that he never ****ing did anything right.

He is such a great guy to a guy that is caught coming out of a hotel room with a woman not his wife. A guy whose wife wheres a shirt to a game that says ****. a guy who is know for not being great in the clubhouse and who in the playoffs ran by and slapped at a guy with the ball in his hands.

Man you guys kill me on how you pick who is good to root for and not to root for

[SoonerBorn68]

I don't root for Bonds because he's a juiced up *******. I thought he was a jerkwad when he played for the Pirates.

[dolemitesooner]

Respect Barry all you want. But anyone that's says "He never tested positive, he was never indicted, no one ever saw him do it" is kidding themselves.

He was a great player before, and still is. He was a Hall of Famer based on everything before al the steroid talk started. But this record is tainted.
ARE Rodger Clemens STATS tainted? What about Arod? What about Eric ganye's record of saves in a season. Have you seen that roid monster...Of course not you but put astireks on what you want too.

[colleyvillesooner]

ARE Rodger Clemens STATS tainted? What about Arod? What about Eric ganye's record of saves in a season. Have you seen that roid monster...Of course not you but put astireks on what you want too.

If Arod or Clemens or Gagne was swimming in steroid suspicion, had leaked grand jury testimony that he took some things, but thought they weren't steroids, people would change their mind on them.

I think Clemens is juiced too. Don't know much about Gagne.

[dolemitesooner]

I don't root for Bonds because he's a juiced up *******. I thought he was a jerkwad when he played for the Pirates.
You have seen him juice? Who you better tell th mitchell commision quick we have a witness.

He is a jerkwad , but so what half the people if life are jerwad's

[GrapevineSooner]

Age 22:

http://www.jasmbiz.com/login/images/upload/barry_bonds_mint_9.jpg

Age 37
http://www2.jsonline.com/sports/brew/image/2001/july/bonds0706.jpg

Reminds me of the before and after pictures of Juan Gonzalez.

[colleyvillesooner]

yep. I believe he was in Canseco's book too wasn't he?

Funny how everybody was so ****ed at Canseco, but it seems like he was telling some version of the truth.

[achiro]

Reminds me of the before and after pictures of Juan Gonzalez.
Hell, if you put a big ol gut on the 37 pic, it would remind me of me...except I'm white and stuff.:D

[dolemitesooner]

If Arod was swimming in steroid suspicion, had leaked grand jury testimony that he took some things, but thought they wren't steroids, people would change their mind on him.
Have you not heard about Canseco's new book that is going to point fingers at A-rod?? No no probaly not you here what the media wants you to here and you believe it because you are are ****ing walking sponge that will believe anything they hear and then feed it to other people they see. You are a walking drolling zombie like half of the people in this world

[SoonerBorn68]

You have seen him juice? Who you better tell th mitchell commision quick we have a witness.

He is a jerkwad , but so what half the people if life are jerwad's

OK, you got me. He's an ******* who allegedly juices up. Face it he'll always have an *.

And I'm just fine with that.

[dolemitesooner]

http://texas-league.com.ismmedia.com/ISM2/MultimediaManager/Eric_Gagne.jpgbefore roids
http://www.everythingtreo.com/images/gagne.jpgafter...I can post pics of guys all day

[dolemitesooner]

OK, you got me. He's an ******* who allegedly juices up. Face it he'll always have an *.

And I'm just fine with that.
There will be no * in the record book and you will have to face that

[colleyvillesooner]

Have you not heard about Canseco's new book that is going to point fingers at A-rod?? No no probaly not you here what the media wants you to here and you believe it because you are are ****ing walking sponge that will believe anything they hear and then feed it to other people they see. You are a walking drolling zombie like half of the people in this world

I actually have heard of the book. Why don't we wait until it comes out and see what it says?

I'm not a Arod super fan, dude. If he ends up with the same kinda stuff floating around him too, I sure as hell won't be rooting for him earlier.

[GrapevineSooner]

If Arod or Clemens or Gagne was swimming in steroid suspicion, had leaked grand jury testimony that he took some things, but thought they weren't steroids, people would change their mind on them.

I think Clemens is juiced too. Don't know much about Gagne.

Not to mention, had a book written about him in which the authors specialize in investigative reporting and did exhaustive research for the book.

[SoonerBorn68]

Dude, apparently you think I give a rat's *** about this record. I don't. To me Bonds is just another average athelete who thought steriods were the answer.

I won't shed a tear when he ends up like Lyle Alzado.

[GrapevineSooner]

Do you think Henry Aaron was a juicer?

What about Maris, a South Dakota farm boy?

BTW, I don't really care what other people think. If you think his record should not have an asterisk by it, so be it.

I choose to believe Maris and Aaron broke their respective home run records while clean.

Bonds, McGwire, Sosa? Not so much.

[dolemitesooner]

Those guys all juiced...In ****ing texas I-rod, Palmerio, A-rod, all of them

[dolemitesooner]

Dude, apparently you think I give a rat's *** about this record. I don't. To me Bonds is just another average athelete who thought steriods were the answer.

I won't shed a tear when he ends up like Lyle Alzado.
Average athlete.....are you ****ing kidding me. Ha ok you are a laughable ****ing joke.

The guy had 3 mvps before all of this ****. He is the only 500 stolen base 500 home run guy ever.

average...lol

[colleyvillesooner]

Everyone's homeruns totals look better at the Ballpark in Arlington. :D

[dolemitesooner]

Barry Bonds is the new home run king, period. Record books will be free of any asterix. Unless Major League Baseball intends to go back and invalidate some of Bonds' home runs, he'll have the highest total until someone else does period.

[colleyvillesooner]

That is true.

We're just talking about the court of public opinion.

[dolemitesooner]

Your opinion does not matter. Thats what I am trying to tell you. HE IS THE HOME RUN KING. weather you like him or not. He did not break any rules. None. He did not cheat.

[colleyvillesooner]

Whatever you say, Doleo.

Better hurry back to San Fran, I hear Barry's sack is getting dry. ;)

[dolemitesooner]

Whatever you say, Doleo.

Better hurry back to San Fran, I hear Barry's sack is getting dry. ;)
Going in 2 weeks don't worry

[OSUAggie]

What about Maris, a South Dakota farm boy?

Maris goes from never hitting 40 HR in a season to 61 in '61, and he's clean... Bonds goes from routinely hitting 40+ to 73, and he's definitely a cheater. That defies logic.

As far as getting better after the age of 36, I would argue against that. He was definitely more feared as an offensive threat, but I think that is more to do with the fact that he changed his approach at the plate. He became much more selective as a hitter, knew his gap shots were doubles instead of possible triples, couldn't steal bases as often, etc.

He changed himself from a gap-to-gap hitter to a slugger. Whether or not he took 'roids or HGH or anything else is irrelevant since he's never been suspended from competition for failing a drug test. If you want to put an * by anything, put it on the game.

[The Maestro]

I say let them juice. It's technology and science. If they want to die young to be heroes now, let them. No one minds that Earl Campbell is a basic invalid well before he should be due to the pounding his body took. Muhammad Ali was not told to "take it easy, big fella" and now look at him. Blame the park architects, too. Easier to hit more home runs now down the lines at most parks. What do I care? It's entertainment. 'Roid up, give me a good show and best of luck with life after retirement.

[dolemitesooner]

Maris goes from never hitting 40 HR in a season to 61 in '61, and he's clean... Bonds goes from routinely hitting 40+ to 73, and he's definitely a cheater. That defies logic.

As far as getting better after the age of 36, I would argue against that. He was definitely more feared as an offensive threat, but I think that is more to do with the fact that he changed his approach at the plate. He became much more selective as a hitter, knew his gap shots were doubles instead of possible triples, couldn't steal bases as often, etc.

He changed himself from a gap-to-gap hitter to a slugger. Whether or not he took 'roids or HGH or anything else is irrelevant since he's never been suspended from competition for failing a drug test. If you want to put an * by anything, put it on the game.
Thank you

[OSUAggie]

Blame the park architects, too. Easier to hit more home runs now down the lines at most parks

Yankee Stadium, Fenway Pahk, the Polo Grounds, etc. beg to differ.

[yermom]

Your opinion does not matter. Thats what I am trying to tell you. HE IS THE HOME RUN KING. weather you like him or not. He did not break any rules. None. He did not cheat.

he wasn't officially caught, that isn't the same as not cheating

[OSUAggie]

Then strip Lance Armstrong. He wasn't officially caught, either.

[yermom]

did he "not know" what substances he was using?

he sounds pretty fishy too, but he hasn't admitted anything has he?

i didn't say to strip anything, i'm just saying doleo's a dumbass if he is going to definitively say he didn't cheat or break the rules

[GrapevineSooner]

Maris goes from never hitting 40 HR in a season to 61 in '61, and he's clean... Bonds goes from routinely hitting 40+ to 73, and he's definitely a cheater. That defies logic.
Nice strawman.

I don't think Maris ever had a grand jury setup to look into whether he lied to them or not in testimony to them. In fact, I don't think Maris ever GAVE testimony to any grand jury.

I don't know that Maris ever had a personal trainer. Of if he did, whether that trainer was thrown in jail for contempt of court for not ratting Maris out.

And finally, I don't think Maris ever had a book written about him using performance enhancing drugs written by two investigative reporters.

Or Hank Aaron for that matter.

Look, if you wanna recognize Bonds as the all-time home run king, knock yourself out. The fact that the record books will now show him as the all-time home run king won't cause the Earth from spinning of it's axis.

I just don't think he did it clean and I think there's a mountain of evidence to support my claim.

[colleyvillesooner]

How many of those seasons did he bat in front of Mickey Mantle?


Batting in front of Mantle in 1961 was a huge benefit, but it didn't start out that way for Maris, who didn't hit his first home run until the 11th game of the season. Mantle hit his 6th and 7th the same day. In those first 11 games, Maris batted third once, sixth once, seventh twice and fifth seven times.

It wasn't until May 19, in the Yankees' 30th game, that manager Ralph Houk moved Maris into the third batting position, just ahead of Mantle, to stay. In his first 29 games, Maris had hit only four home runs. Mantle had slugged 10, and already people were wondering if he would be the one to erase Ruth's record of 60.

Maris would catch Mantle at 14 home runs in his 44th game, pass him the following day and slowly, but steadily, pull away from his teammate.

On June 30, in the Yankees' 73rd game, Mantle hit his 25th homer and trailed Maris by two. He would never catch up to Maris and, in fact, would drop out of the race in September when an infection in his hip, the result of receiving a flu shot with a contaminated needle, caused him to miss a week. Meanwhile, Maris pressed on, tied Ruth's record in the Yankees' 159th game and passed him in Game No. 163 (the Yankees had played a tie at Baltimore on April 22).

[jk the sooner fan]

Yeah I will bet Because you know for a fact that he never ****ing did anything right.

He is such a great guy to a guy that is caught coming out of a hotel room with a woman not his wife. A guy whose wife wheres a shirt to a game that says ****. a guy who is know for not being great in the clubhouse and who in the playoffs ran by and slapped at a guy with the ball in his hands.

Man you guys kill me on how you pick who is good to root for and not to root for

did i say he was an angel? or that he's never done anything?

man, you kill me on how you pick who is good to root for and not to root for

[Scott D]

Yankee Stadium, Fenway Pahk, the Polo Grounds, etc. beg to differ.

Yankee Stadium - Short porch in right field
Fenway Park - Short porch in left field with ridiculous wall
Polo Grounds - Wackiest design ever, with ridiculous right and left field distances, but center field was death valley to a fly ball.

Why not throw in the wierd design of the wall in right field in Ebbets Field as well, where you played a carom off of an angled portion of wall just right, or the batter easily had a triple or inside the parker. You know, the thing that made Duke Snider's defensive ability so great.

[TMcGee86]

How anyone can still question whether or not Bonds was roided up is seriously ignoring reality.

He admitted, under oath, that he took steriods.

And please dont give me the whole "he said he didn't know what it was." bs line. The cream is a lotion you rub on your muscles before you work out. The clear is a liquid you put in a dropper and drop under your tounge prior to working out. They were both HIGH dollar designer steriods developed specifically to avoid detection.

I'm sure Bonds was AMAZED at all this sudden growth and strength when he started using this stuff.

And if you watch any highlights he body changed DRASTICALLY after the 00 season. It wasn't just old age, or putting on a few pounds.

His freaking hat size went up like 3 sizes. How many older people does that happen to just because of the natural aging process?

His personal trainer sits in jail this very minute. His nutritionist is likewise in prison.

Just read Game of Shadows. If you cannot see that he is dirty, then you are ignoring reality.


Now that being said, he was a HOF'er before this, but he would have never broken the record w/o roids.

[OSUAggie]

How many of those seasons did he bat in front of Mickey Mantle?

Ah yes, yet another facet of Bonds' greatness, who was protecting him in the lineup (I realize that has little to do with your point, just another part that makes his accomplishments so great).

[Scott D]

and Clemens never would have gotten 300 wins or 4000 strikeouts without roids/performance enhancers.

Difference is, MLB went through a process of protecting Clemens (and others) while leaving Bonds as detestable as he may be out to dry. The smart thing for fans and non fans to do would be to consider MLB as a whole to be the criminals involved in criminal actions, and the players the accessories.

[OSUAggie]

Grapevine, I wasn't saying that Maris' situation was identical or even comparable to Bonds, just that the jump in HR totals was proportionate. Bonds is the subject of a ridiculous witch hunt that has even involved elected officials. I'm sure if the same microscope were placed on others, some **** would be found.

[TMcGee86]

and Clemens never would have gotten 300 wins or 4000 strikeouts without roids/performance enhancers.

Difference is, MLB went through a process of protecting Clemens (and others) while leaving Bonds as detestable as he may be out to dry. The smart thing for fans and non fans to do would be to consider MLB as a whole to be the criminals involved in criminal actions, and the players the accessories.

I totally agree. It's really quite fascinating at how the media has all but ignored the fact that most of the people caught in the initial tests were pitchers, and how the pitching, especially closers roles, have declined drastically since the testing began.

[dolemitesooner]

did he "not know" what substances he was using?

he sounds pretty fishy too, but he hasn't admitted anything has he?

i didn't say to strip anything, i'm just saying doleo's a dumbass if he is going to definitively say he didn't cheat or break the rules
It was not against the rules of baseball. HE DID NOT CHEAT. THERE WAS NO RULE AGAINST WHAT HE DID. He is beinging investigated my the fedral goverment for crimes in the Us not baseball.

Your the idiot

[Scott D]

Other addressable points in this thread.

1. Bonds while a great player isn't the player his godfather was, whom I consider to be the greatest of all time (sorry Mantle fans, I've got Mick second).
2. Bonds isn't the best slugger in his own family (sorry, his old man was far better with the long ball..damn those knee injuries)
3. The record should belong to George Kenneth Griffey Jr. whom would have hit 756 at some point next season if he'd kept at his average of around 40 home runs a year instead of being so often injured since 2001.
4. The most frequent non pitcher abusers of steroid/performance enhancers/hgh are latin born players, mainly because they are driven by fear of being restored to their status prior to making it to play baseball in the US.

[dolemitesooner]

I totally agree. It's really quite fascinating at how the media has all but ignored the fact that most of the people caught in the initial tests were pitchers, and how the pitching, especially closers roles, have declined drastically since the testing began.
Exactly the media is the reason Bonds has been pushed to the forfront of the steriod issue. Its a witch hunt.

[Ike]

I totally agree. It's really quite fascinating at how the media has all but ignored the fact that most of the people caught in the initial tests were pitchers, and how the pitching, especially closers roles, have declined drastically since the testing began.


For better or worse, over the past 10 years or so, Major League Baseball has decided to put a lot of emphasis on what it considers its "selling points". Namely, the fastball and the long ball. Considering that, is it really any wonder that ballplayers have started juicing...a lot?

Stat in point, when I was a kid I remember hearing that the AVERAGE MLB fastball was around 85 MPH. Nowadays, just from what I see on TV, I would harbor the guess that the average MLB fastball flirts with 90. Perhaps 91 or 92 even.

[dolemitesooner]

4. The most frequent non pitcher abusers of steroid/performance enhancers/hgh are latin born players, mainly because they are driven by fear of being restored to their status prior to making it to play baseball in the US.
No this could never be true. The great Albert Pulroid is 100% clean. He never did anything.

Only Black men can take steriods

[Scott D]

It was not against the rules of baseball. HE DID NOT CHEAT. THERE WAS NO RULE AGAINST WHAT HE DID. He is beinging investigated my the fedral goverment for crimes in the Us not baseball.

Your the idiot

doleo, there is one consistency in baseball....players and teams are pretty much always cheating to get an edge. From my understanding Bonds was upset that rather than "fans" paying more attention to the legacy of good/great players playing the right way, they were far too interested in the "popeye" achievements of Andro McGwire, and Roids Sosa. 1998 is what caused him to go down the path documented in Game of Shadows (even if the information for that book was obtained illegally).

Bonds was great before he started to juice, and he was great after he started to juice. He's a polarizing figure, and falls into the category of love/hate/antipathy, just deal with it.

[yermom]

It was not against the rules of baseball. HE DID NOT CHEAT. THERE WAS NO RULE AGAINST WHAT HE DID. He is beinging investigated my the fedral goverment for crimes in the Us not baseball.

Your the idiot

ok, i'll give you that, i forgot what i was talking about ;)

i don't think it's cool to allow that **** though, i mean kids are starting to juice in high school and **** to compete. it's one thing for some 40+ dude, but it's setting up even more unrealistic expectations for young kids IMO

baseball looked the other way because they were getting ratings again, and maybe Barry is in the middle of all this because of that, but i still don't think it should be that celebrated

[Scott D]

No this could never be true. The great Albert Pulroid is 100% clean. He never did anything.

Only Black men can take steriods

Pujols has been alleged to have taken hgh in some form, but it hasn't been proven.

Look at the roid suspensions doleo...the players have been either latin or white. Only Bonds and Sheffield have admitted any usage (unknowingly according to both) among prominent black players.

[Scott D]

ok, i'll give you that, i forgot what i was talking about ;)

i don't think it's cool to allow that **** though, i mean kids are starting to juice in high school and **** to compete. it's one thing for some 40+ dude, but it's setting up even more unrealistic expectations for young kids IMO

baseball looked the other way because they were getting ratings again, and maybe Barry is in the middle of all this because of that, but i still don't think it should be that celebrated

kids were juicing in high school well before Steroidgate hit MLB.

[OSUAggie]

Stat in point, when I was a kid I remember hearing that the AVERAGE MLB fastball was around 85 MPH. Nowadays, just from what I see on TV, I would harbor the guess that the average MLB fastball flirts with 90. Perhaps 91 or 92 even.

That's can't be right, unless the guns are about 5 MPH off (which I know some are). We had a ton of pro scouts at our HS practices/games and our entire starting staff (save for me) averaged over 85 on their guns, with the top being 91 avg.

And none of us were juicing... stoned, maybe, but not on the 'roids.

[Ike]

Other addressable points in this thread.

1. Bonds while a great player isn't the player his godfather was, whom I consider to be the greatest of all time (sorry Mantle fans, I've got Mick second).
2. Bonds isn't the best slugger in his own family (sorry, his old man was far better with the long ball..damn those knee injuries)
3. The record should belong to George Kenneth Griffey Jr. whom would have hit 756 at some point next season if he'd kept at his average of around 40 home runs a year instead of being so often injured since 2001.
4. The most frequent non pitcher abusers of steroid/performance enhancers/hgh are latin born players, mainly because they are driven by fear of being restored to their status prior to making it to play baseball in the US.

If it wasn't for things like this, Griff might have had a shot
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/slight_breeze_shatters_ken

CINCINNATI—Although Ken Griffey Jr. had nearly recovered from a broken hand sustained while playing with his children in December, his rehabilitation came to a sudden halt yesterday when a gentle 2 mph breeze wafted across his leg, shattering his femur in three places. "I knew it was broken right when that breeze hit me," said Griffey, who was walking from his sports therapist's office to his car in order to drive to his daughter's piano recital at the time of the injury. "These things just happen. If I would have known a breeze like that was coming, I never would have left the house." Reds manager Jerry Narron has stated that, upon Griffey's return to the Reds, he will be fitted with a personalized protective bubble to be worn for the remainder of the season.

[jk the sooner fan]

i'll agree with one thing doleo says, and thats the whole issue is a mess created by the inaction of MLB........i think it goes back to the immediate post strike era where baseball took a hit from fans that refused to come back to the game

so at any cost, they brought the fans back, turned their backs to what they knew was going on.......the whole notion of a drug being used illegally but not being against the rules is just retarded...almost as retarded as trying to convince others (much less yourself) that Bonds didnt juice

yes, he's a great player, and frankly before the roids, probably was a top 10 (possibly 5) greatest all time as both a fielder and hitter..

its just a shame that Henry Aaron worked hard for so many years and put up an honest number, the record of all records, and a guy broke it last nite because he used enhancing drugs

[Scott D]

That's can't be right, unless the guns are about 5 MPH off (which I know some are). We had a ton of pro scouts at our HS practices/games and our entire starting staff (save for me) averaged over 85 on their guns, with the top being 91 avg.

And none of us were juicing... stoned, maybe, but not on the 'roids.

keep in mind the MLB fastball ranges from Tim Wakefield and Mark Buehrle lightning speeds of 86-88 mph to the Justin Verlander and Joel Zumaya slowpoke speeds of 101-103 mph.

[Ike]

That's can't be right, unless the guns are about 5 MPH off (which I know some are). We had a ton of pro scouts at our HS practices/games and our entire starting staff (save for me) averaged over 85 on their guns, with the top being 91 avg.

And none of us were juicing... stoned, maybe, but not on the 'roids.

I don't use that stat to indicate that all pitchers are juicing, but rather to show the incentive to juice. If you are an aging pitcher who wants to hang on, losing a few MPH on your fastball is often a kiss of death nowadays. The change in average fastball velocity came about more because of a drastic change in what scouts are going after when it comes to pitchers.

<edit> It used to be that scouts went after pitchers that already knew how to pitch. Guys that had good command of 3 or 4 pitches with movement, regardless of speed, and maybe a few guys who threw insanely hard. Nowadays, they'll take pitchers that just throw 90 without any regard to whether or not they can hit the broad side of a barn or not. They figure that they can take these guys and teach them how to pitch. In my opinion, this is as much to blame for the surge in dingers in recent years as the juice.

[OSUAggie]

keep in mind the MLB fastball ranges from Tim Wakefield and Mark Buehrle lightning speeds of 86-88 mph to the Justin Verlander and Joel Zumaya slowpoke speeds of 101-103 mph.

Wakefield would **** himself if he threw an 86 MPH fastball...

But for every Buehrle or Moyer or Zito, there is a Verlander or Zumaya or Boof or whatever...

The average guy - Kazmir or whatever - is in the low-to-mid's on a consistent basis.

[OSUAggie]

I don't use that stat to indicate that all pitchers are juicing, but rather to show the incentive to juice. If you are an aging pitcher who wants to hang on, losing a few MPH on your fastball is often a kiss of death nowadays. The change in average fastball velocity came about more because of a drastic change in what scouts are going after when it comes to pitchers.

All right, I'm on board with that.

[dolemitesooner]

ok, i'll give you that, i forgot what i was talking about ;)

i don't think it's cool to allow that **** though, i mean kids are starting to juice in high school and **** to compete. it's one thing for some 40+ dude, but it's setting up even more unrealistic expectations for young kids IMO

baseball looked the other way because they were getting ratings again, and maybe Barry is in the middle of all this because of that, but i still don't think it should be that celebrated
I agree with you on the kids ****. But he could have broke the record without them. He is truley a great player

[dolemitesooner]

i'll agree with one thing doleo says, and thats the whole issue is a mess created by the inaction of MLB........i think it goes back to the immediate post strike era where baseball took a hit from fans that refused to come back to the game

so at any cost, they brought the fans back, turned their backs to what they knew was going on.......the whole notion of a drug being used illegally but not being against the rules is just retarded...almost as retarded as trying to convince others (much less yourself) that Bonds didnt juice

yes, he's a great player, and frankly before the roids, probably was a top 10 (possibly 5) greatest all time as both a fielder and hitter..

its just a shame that Henry Aaron worked hard for so many years and put up an honest number, the record of all records, and a guy broke it last nite because he used enhancing drugsOk This kills me...I love arron the guy is ****ing class. But how do you know for a ****ing fact his number is honest. Men are inheranty evil and they are always trying to get an edge

[jk the sooner fan]

were they using steroid back in the 60's and 70s?

hell, even Andruw Jones said the other day "ok, so everybody 's using steroids, but not everybody is hitting 756"

you know, its ok if Barry is your hero and you want to put him on a pedestal, but dont tarnish Henry Aaron to get Bonds up on top of it

[dolemitesooner]

Pujols has been alleged to have taken hgh in some form, but it hasn't been proven.

Look at the roid suspensions doleo...the players have been either latin or white. Only Bonds and Sheffield have admitted any usage (unknowingly according to both) among prominent black players.
I was bring sarcastic Scott:)

[Scott D]

I don't use that stat to indicate that all pitchers are juicing, but rather to show the incentive to juice. If you are an aging pitcher who wants to hang on, losing a few MPH on your fastball is often a kiss of death nowadays. The change in average fastball velocity came about more because of a drastic change in what scouts are going after when it comes to pitchers.

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/images/2006/04/27/8l3zNaHO.jpghttp://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39085000/jpg/_39085808_clemens_300.jpg

[jk the sooner fan]

let me see if i understand doleo's stance on the issue

everybody cheats, except Barry Bonds

but if he did cheat, then he's your favorite cheater?

[OSUAggie]

Clemens has lost quite a bit on his fastball....

[dolemitesooner]

were they using steroid back in the 60's and 70s?

hell, even Andruw Jones said the other day "ok, so everybody 's using steroids, but not everybody is hitting 756"

you know, its ok if Barry is your hero and you want to put him on a pedestal, but dont tarnish Henry Aaron to get Bonds up on top of it
I am not tarnishing Arron I said I love him and he is Class, but you are trying to tarnish a guy I grew up watching slugg, AND THERE IS NO PROOF THAT HE CHEATED. So I asked you how do you know arron did not gain advantage in some way?

Some would say oh black players pitched him homerun balls trying to get a blackman to the top during a battle for civil rights

[Scott D]

he lost a bit on it before he went to Toronto...he was considered nearly washed up during his first year with Toronto..then all of a sudden he got a few mph on the fastball and became nearly unhittable again....all within the span of working with a new strength coach whom questions about methods have followed. Merely coincidence I assure you..especially since said strength coach is no longer associated with anyone in MLB because of his questionable methods being brought to light.

[Scott D]

I am not tarnishing Arron I said I love him and he is Class, but you are trying to tarnish a guy I grew up watching slugg, AND THERE IS NO PROOF THAT HE CHEATED. So I asked you how do you know arron did not gain advantage in some way?

Some would say oh black players pitched him homerun balls trying to get a blackman to the top during a battle for civil rights

you know, I'm going to ask Dean to slap you upside your pointy head if you continue to mistype Henry Louis Aaron's surname.

[dolemitesooner]

let me see if i understand doleo's stance on the issue

everybody cheats, except Barry Bonds

but if he did cheat, then he's your favorite cheater?
no no not at all jk

80%of the ****s cheat. Pitchers scuff balls, Players take the newest supplement to get an edge. Barry did too. He was already great.

It has been said that in 1998 when mac and sosa were going at it that at dinner he said " I know what these guys are doing to be this good, I guess I have to do the same to prove to them I am better"

[OSUAggie]

I didn't say he was innocent of anything, but he's definitely not the same type of pitcher he was at UT or in Boston. I agree that he was fading fast in Beantown, and he might've been at his best when he was in Canada. But, today, or even the past 5 or 6 years, he has been nowhere near the pitcher he was in the 80s/early 90s.

[dolemitesooner]

you know, I'm going to ask Dean to slap you upside your pointy head if you continue to mistype Henry Louis Aaron's surname.
aaron smaron herion hes 2nd now

[Ike]

no no not at all jk

80%of the ****s cheat. Pitchers scuff balls, Players take the newest supplement to get an edge. Barry did too. He was already great.

It has been said that in 1998 when mac and sosa were going at it that at dinner he said " I know what these guys are doing to be this good, I guess I have to do the same to prove to them I am better"


To be honest, Im not sure that there are many pitchers out there anymore that would know what to do with a scuffed baseball. It's a lost art.

[dolemitesooner]

To be honest, Im not sure that there are many pitchers out there anymore that would know what to do with a scuffed baseball. It's a lost art.
Stfu Traber said the guys in arizona when he was there doing radio stuff during there world series run were doing that ****

[OSUAggie]

So, to all the "purists" that hate the way the game has become (I hate the way that everyone always talks about how the game is **** now, it makes it painful to get through a telecast)....

Is it just unacceptable to cheat by putting things in or on your body that aid your performance (chemicals, steriods, creams, pills, whatever)? Or is it equally disgusting to doctor a ball or cork a bat or dip your hand or anything like that?

[jk the sooner fan]

no no not at all jk

80%of the ****s cheat. Pitchers scuff balls, Players take the newest supplement to get an edge. Barry did too. He was already great.

It has been said that in 1998 when mac and sosa were going at it that at dinner he said " I know what these guys are doing to be this good, I guess I have to do the same to prove to them I am better"

make up your mind, did barry cheat or not?

did he take performance enhancing drugs......answer that question. i'm not asking if he's been convicted, or if anybody has seen him take it.......tell me yes or no, do you believe he's used steroids?

[Scott D]

To be honest, Im not sure that there are many pitchers out there anymore that would know what to do with a scuffed baseball. It's a lost art.

I gotta agree with Ike...the art of scuffing died the day that Mike Scott became ineffective ;)

[Scott D]

Stfu Traber said the guys in arizona when he was there doing radio stuff during there world series run were doing that ****

Traber would also tell you that Kenji Nakamura in Japan threw harder stuff than Nolan Ryan if you let him.

[dolemitesooner]

make up your mind, did barry cheat or not?

did he take performance enhancing drugs......answer that question. i'm not asking if he's been convicted, or if anybody has seen him take it.......tell me yes or no, do you believe he's used steroids?
1. He did not cheat what he did was within the rules
2. Yes I think that he probably took steriods, but I don't think he took what some of the other guys took. I think he used the cream and the clear to get rid of nagging injurys.

[dolemitesooner]

Traber would also tell you that Kenji Nakamura in Japan threw harder stuff than Nolan Ryan if you let him.
He did:D

[jk the sooner fan]

1. He did not cheat what he did was within the rules
2. Yes I think that he probably took steriods, but I don't think he took what some of the other guys took. I think he used the cream and the clear to get rid of nagging injurys.

ok this just kills me

[dolemitesooner]

ok this just kills me
why

[jk the sooner fan]

lets just agree to disagree

[Mjcpr]

1. He did not cheat what he did was within the rules
2. Yes I think that he probably took steriods, but I don't think he took what some of the other guys took. I think he used the cream and the clear to get rid of nagging injurys.

Nagging injuries like a tremendously undersized head?

:D

[Scott D]

Nagging injuries like a tremendously undersized head?

:D

no wonder 4life said mjcpr needs to start taking the cream and the clear ;)

[dolemitesooner]

lets just agree to disagree
nope....I am not doing that. He is not a cheater. PERIOD

[stoopified]

he's a ****** bag. if i caught that ball, i wouldn't even give it back to him. i would probably seal it in a concrete block and sink it to the bottom ocean, thats what i think of him and this new* record.
That is a waste of at least $100,000.Cut off your nose to spite your face? :)

[dolemitesooner]

Nagging injuries like a tremendously undersized head?

:D Have you gained any weight as you have gotten older?

[GrapevineSooner]

Grapevine, I wasn't saying that Maris' situation was identical or even comparable to Bonds, just that the jump in HR totals was proportionate. Bonds is the subject of a ridiculous witch hunt that has even involved elected officials. I'm sure if the same microscope were placed on others, some **** would be found.

I'm sure it would be, too. And would probably yield some shocking results if that day ever came. Which it never will given MLB's propensity to slide whatever problems they can under the rug and since the Mitchell team doesn't have subponea power.

And I'll agree with you on the witch hunt about Bonds. There are far worse people in the world than him. Even in baseball.

Take Scott Boras for example. ;)

[colleyvillesooner]

Have you gained any weight in your head, biceps and pecs as you got older?

fixed

[Scott D]

I'm sure it would be, too. And would probably yield some shocking results if that day ever came. Which it never will given MLB's propensity to slide whatever problems they can under the rug and since the Mitchell team doesn't have subponea power.

And I'll agree with you on the witch hunt about Bonds. There are far worse people in the world than him. Even in baseball.

Take Scott Boras for example. ;)

Scott Boras, Bud Selig, donald fehr (who doesn't deserve to have his name caplitalized) :P

[dolemitesooner]

I'm sure it would be, too. And would probably yield some shocking results if that day ever came. Which it never will given MLB's propensity to slide whatever problems they can under the rug and since the Mitchell team doesn't have subponea power.

And I'll agree with you on the witch hunt about Bonds. There are far worse people in the world than him. Even in baseball.

Take Scott Boras for example. ;)
Yeah no **** talk about someone ruining baseball lets talk about boras and his getting guys overpaid

[dolemitesooner]

fixed
Yeah pecs being man tits and arms

[jk the sooner fan]

if you really think that his new body shape is akin to age associated weight gain, then you've got your head buried in the sand more than i thought you did

if you want to see middle age weight gain, check out my gut at a tailgate

[Ike]

if you really think that his new body shape is akin to age associated weight gain, then you've got your head buried in the sand more than i thought you did

if you want to see middle age weight gain, check out my gut at a tailgate

Or better yet, just look at John Kruk.

[jk the sooner fan]

Or better yet, just look at John Kruk.

exactly!

[royalfan5]

Or better yet, just look at John Kruk.
I thought Kruk was always fat.

[Scott D]

Or better yet, just look at John Kruk.

but his wife doesn't call him disgusting anymore since he's gotten on Nutrisystem. ;)

[dolemitesooner]

if you really think that his new body shape is akin to age associated weight gain, then you've got your head buried in the sand more than i thought you did

if you want to see middle age weight gain, check out my gut at a tailgate
I NEVER SAID HE JUST GOT BIGGER FROM MIDDLE AGE WEIGHT GAIN.

LOL

you know what My uncle used to be a skinny ****. Now he is huge and has man muscle from hell.

Also I will bet if you ask dean if he was a skinny **** when he was younger in the army he was. Ask him

Also quit trying to change ****.

I said he is not a cheater. He is on of the greaest players of all time you cant argue those things.....So you stay away and jump in a take japs here in there like a skared ***** would during a fight.

You cant stand around and take a blows you have to let other people get involved then when you see that your buddy has someone on the ground you throw in a quick kick and back away and say "agree to diagree"

You know else does this

Rus

I will start calling you Rus jk

[Ike]

I thought Kruk was always fat.

He was...but not nearly like he is today, or even at the end of his career.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/pics/john_kruk_autograph.jpg
http://www.baseballcardstars.com/deals/kruk05UDC.jpg

[jk the sooner fan]

lord doleo makes my head hurt...

bonds cheated, plain and simple, he took steroids for the sole purpose of improving his performance (i.e. baseball stats)

it worked, congrats barry....you got there....if you can sleep at nite over how you got there, then so can i

[TUSooner]

Maybe I dont like BB (I don't); maybe I'm just jaded these days (I am). But I was pretty darn excited when Hank broke the record, and I could NOT care less about anything BB did or does. It's a shame that "good guy" Aaron doesn't have the record, but what can you do?
BTW, I WAS excited when McGuire his his 62+, but now that the juice is spilled, I despise that big orange phony as much as I despise BB.

[jk the sooner fan]

Have you gained any weight as you have gotten older?

have you gained any weight as you've gotten older

yep, i'm pretty sure i read it right the first time

you didnt ask "have you gained any upper body muscle mass as you've gotten older"

if you want to argue specifics, be specific in your questions and your own "jabs"....and quit the histrionics

we all get it, you're highly upset that your overlord barry bonds has been called a cheater

[TMcGee86]

I think he used the cream and the clear to get rid of nagging injurys.

I hate to break it to you but the cream doesn't do anything to help with nagging injuries.

The cream is a masking agent, used to artifically increase the body's level of testostrone so that a drug test wont come back positive.

Which, stands in clear contrast to your point that he wasn't "cheating".

Why the masking agent?

[dolemitesooner]

I hate to break it to you but the cream doesn't do anything to help with nagging injuries.

The cream is a masking agent, used to artifically increase the body's level of testostrone so that a drug test wont come back positive.

Which, stands in clear contrast to your point that he wasn't "cheating".

Why the masking agent?
He didn't cheat riods were not illegal You have no clue

[dolemitesooner]

lord doleo makes my head hurt...

bonds cheated, plain and simple, he took steroids for the sole purpose of improving his performance (i.e. baseball stats)

it worked, congrats barry....you got there....if you can sleep at nite over how you got there, then so can i
Hey Jk

Cheating To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.

It was not agaisnt the rules...Your wrong again you are awarded no points and may god have mercy on your soul

[jk the sooner fan]

doleo, steroids are illegal......according to federal drug laws

its like using cocaine....

[dolemitesooner]

have you gained any weight as you've gotten older

yep, i'm pretty sure i read it right the first time

you didnt ask "have you gained any upper body muscle mass as you've gotten older"

if you want to argue specifics, be specific in your questions and your own "jabs"....and quit the histrionics

we all get it, you're highly upset that your overlord barry bonds has been called a cheater
How can I quit the histrinonics when I dont know what the **** that is

He did not cheat

[Scott D]

How can I quit the histrinonics when I dont know what the **** that is

He did not cheat

histronics = you being a whinny beyonce that is practically yelling to make your point.

[dolemitesooner]

doleo, steroids are illegal......according to federal drug laws

its like using cocaine....
Not Baseballs laws.

He broke federal drug laws yes. And he did not"cheat the goverment"
He broke the law

[TMcGee86]

He didn't cheat riods were not illegal You have no clue

I never said he "cheated."

I simply mentioned the fact that he has admitted to using a steriod and a masking agent.

Maybe he really didn't know what he was taking, and that was why he took a masking agent despite the fact that there was no testing in baseball at the time.

Of course, when you are spending that amount of jack on some roids, you would think the trainer would give you a heads up that you dont need it unless you are trying to beat a test.

[Scott D]

Not Baseballs laws.

He broke federal drug laws yes. And he did not"cheat the goverment"

actually if he didn't "cheat the government" then he wouldn't be under investigation for income tax evasion.

[Scott D]

I never said he "cheated."

I simply mentioned the fact that he has admitted to using a steriod and a masking agent.

Maybe he really didn't know what he was taking, and that was why he took a masking agent despite the fact that there was no testing in baseball at the time.

Of course, when you are spending that amount of jack on some roids, you would think the trainer would give you a heads up that you dont need it unless you are trying to beat a test.

[doleo's next argument]he was being used as a ginepig (intentionally misspelled by me)[/doleo's next argument]

[dolemitesooner]

You all are just hating on bonds because your all racist ****s. Bonds he black and thats why you want to hang him.

On of these days you old men will die and this nation and my people will over come you racist ****ers:mad:

[FaninAma]

Hell, Barry's just living by the currrent code of American ethics....if it helps you get ahead and you can make more money then do it. Don't worry that it's unethical and possibly illegal.

Barry Bonds and the rest of the motley crew in MLB are a bunch of @$$wipes....of major proportions.

And don't even get me started on the professional gangsta ball association......also known formerly as the NBA.

[FaninAma]

You all are just hating on bonds because your all racist ****s. Bonds he black and thats why you want to hang him.

On of these days you old men will die and this nation and my people will over come you racist ****ers:mad:

Don't even try to tell me you're serious with that comment.

[dolemitesooner]

Don't even try to tell me you're serious with that comment.
Yeah what about it

[TMcGee86]

You all are just hating on bonds because your all racist ****s. Bonds he black and thats why you want to hang him.

On of these days you old men will die and this nation and my people will over come you racist ****ers:mad:

lol. I'm 30. You have a long time to wait for my gen to die off.

But the fact that he's black has nothing to do with it. He admitted he took roids. That is all I am basing anything on. He and the rest of those losers that artifically enhanced themselves in the pursuit of records dont get my respect.

I'll save that for guys like Hank. Whom, last time I checked, is still black.

[dolemitesooner]

lol. I'm 30. You have a long time to wait for my gen to die off.

But the fact that he's black has nothing to do with it. He admitted he took roids. That is all I am basing anything on. He and the rest of those losers that artifically enhanced themselves in the pursuit of records dont get my respect.

I'll save that for guys like Hank. Whom, last time I checked, is still black.
But he is no brother

[TMcGee86]

But he is no brother
:D

[yermom]

doleo, you're not black, and i want to hang you

[OSUAggie]

lol. I'm 30. You have a long time to wait for my gen to die off.

But the fact that he's black has nothing to do with it. He admitted he took roids. That is all I am basing anything on. He and the rest of those losers that artifically enhanced themselves in the pursuit of records dont get my respect.

I'll save that for guys like Hank. Whom, last time I checked, is still black.

It's amazing that, in a game with a history that almost glorifies cheating, people cannot stand the fact that someone cheated on his way to the most recognized professional sports record in America.

[dolemitesooner]

doleo, you're not black, and i want to hang youDude I am gangsta as they come bitch so stfu before I shiv your *** beyonce

[Scott D]

It's amazing that, in a game with a history that almost glorifies cheating, people cannot stand the fact that someone cheated on his way to the most recognized professional sports record in America.

if ever I was going to give spek to a poke...this would be the post that would get it.

[yermom]

Dude I am gangsta as they come bitch so stfu before I shiv your *** beyonce

ok, i guess it's because you are black on the inside ;)

[dolemitesooner]

if ever I was going to give spek to a poke...this would be the post that would get it.
**** that trick *** poke ho mother ****er!!!!:D

[FaninAma]

Yeah what about it

Cause I know you're blowing smoke just trying to yank these nice peoples' chains. :texan:

[TMcGee86]

It's amazing that, in a game with a history that almost glorifies cheating, people cannot stand the fact that someone cheated on his way to the most recognized professional sports record in America.

See that's my problem, I'm not a real baseball fan. I could care less either way, I just think it's crappy that w/o roids, hank still has the record, and probably would keep it for a good long while, if not forever.

[dolemitesooner]

Cause I know you're blowing smoke just trying to yank these nice peoples' chains. :texan:
**** son....Now your on my list to get shivved hater:D ;)

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

My thing is that since these things were not against the rules. Basically an asterisk should be put by the whole Selig era of Baseball which has been hideous to put it conservatively. I mean just the negative side effects often attributed to Steriod and HGH SHOULD have been enough for the Players Union and MLB to want to protect their players from harming themselves. Let's face it though, home runs were good for business. Big Hulking Behemoths were good for business. Barry Bonds is a great player and is arguably the greatest player of all time regardless of any situation. You have the bases loaded in Game 7 of the World Series down a run and Bonds would be on the short list of people I would want hitting. Bonds gets in trouble because to put it lightly, he is an arrogant stand off-ish ******* that no one can really stand. This includes the media and teammates. Bonds is really a victim of MLB's (i.e. Union and Selig's office) steadfast denial of any type of intervention to act in the best interest of their players. Bonds, however, has not made his life any more easy by being the biggest jerk in the world.

[achiro]

Interesting that I just got the latest SI here at the office, it has an article that shows a pic of him and stats from every year side by side. He had two jumps in weight, 96-97 went from 190 to 206 stats pretty much along the lines of previous years HR's in the 40 per year range give or take.
The next large jump in weight was 2000 to 01 he went from 210 to 228. He hit 73 HRs in 01 and that was by far the best year he ever had. Back to 46 in 02 .

[bluedogok]

Yeah I will bet Because you know for a fact that he never ****ing did anything right.

He is such a great guy to a guy that is caught coming out of a hotel room with a woman not his wife. A guy whose wife wheres a shirt to a game that says ****. a guy who is know for not being great in the clubhouse and who in the playoffs ran by and slapped at a guy with the ball in his hands.

Man you guys kill me on how you pick who is good to root for and not to root for
Just like Bonds, didn't he get caught up in some kind of extra-marital affair? Neither of them are "great guys". they are primadona's that are both jerks on and off the field.....great players but not good people.


I agree with you on the kids ****. But he could have broke the record without them. He is truley a great player
I think he would have hung around long enough to break the record whether it would have been this year or fives years from now. Of course no one knows if he hadn't have taken the roids his knees might not have been as shot as they are now.


lord doleo makes my head hurt...

bonds cheated, plain and simple, he took steroids for the sole purpose of improving his performance (i.e. baseball stats)

it worked, congrats barry....you got there....if you can sleep at nite over how you got there, then so can i
I think you have to have a conscience to lose sleep over something.

I am so tired of hearing about the "steroids era", one thing doleo has right, there has been "cheating" going on ever since the ball was first thrown over the plate. Bonds cheated the game in fairness, not in rules just like however many hundreds of others did. People just need to say that was the conditions at that time and move one, just like when ballparks were bigger, the pitchers mound was taller and the game was not integrated. Baseball history is fluid and moves like the sand on the beach, I have always thought those who try to compare someone of today with someone 50 or 100 years ago is ludicrous. Given todays focus on conditioning and power you could take the Royals and Devil Rays and probably beat some of those "great" Yankee teams 50 years ago, just like in football it is a different game. Could you imagine what type of player a Ruth or Mantle could be given the conditioning that goes on now?

The game changes, people change, that is the only constant.

[Scott D]

Willie Mays would still be the best to ever play ;)

[OSUAggie]

Just like Bonds, didn't he get caught up in some kind of extra-marital affair? Neither of them are "great guys". they are primadona's that are both jerks on and off the field.....great players but not good people.

What if you were the head (or beneficiary or member or involved in some form) of one of the many charities that Barry donates millions of dollars to, would he then be a good person? Alex, as well?

[bluedogok]

Willie Mays would still be the best to ever play ;)
Gotta agree with you there.....


What if you were the head (or beneficiary or member or involved in some form) of one of the many charities that Barry donates millions of dollars to, would he then be a good person? Alex, as well?
Well, they aren't exactly unbiased people now are they? Many of the "worst" people in the business world give out a bunch of money to charities, that doesn't necessarily make them "good" people. Many donate it for public relations purposes, not for a sense of charity and in many cases they are there to give the spouse something to do. It may also be done to compensate for other bad behavior, there are many that I know who expect that to happen in their own lives.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

The greatest player of all time is Denny Walling!

[Ike]

I liked this one:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb38/digdis1/bondsrookie.jpg

[Ike]

heh
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3381/barry20bondsfb1.jpg

[yermom]

more like eels and ice cream :eek:

[Mixer!]

http://www.ocregister.com/newsimages/opinion/Bonds30806.jpg

:pop:

[hookem31]

heh
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3381/barry20bondsfb1.jpg

The whole picture....

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a109/hookem31/forum%20pics/barry_tx_sign-1.jpg

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

What is this Class stuff? I mean it must be some potent **** because Aaron hit like 755 home runs with it. Plus his helmet size didn't change six times. It must be like some super steriod

[critical_phil]

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IMAGES/CARTOONS/toon071607.gif

[picasso]

look, the thing about Bonds is that he juiced up at an age when his numbers should have been on the decline yet they actually got better.

he's one of the best ever but he didn't need to juice up to get that tag.

he just needed them for the numbers.

[dolemitesooner]

What is this Class stuff? I mean it must be some potent **** because Aaron hit like 755 home runs with it. Plus his helmet size didn't change six times. It must be like some super steriod
:D

[critical_phil]

this whole thread is race driven.


if Bonds were white, would Dolemite even be in this thread?

[dolemitesooner]

this whole thread is race driven.


if Bonds were white, would Dolemite even be in this thread?
Proabably not because then this thread would be about how great bonds was by all you black hatin *******s

[critical_phil]

heh