This is just awful

[Flagstaffsooner]

http://newsok.com/article/3098884

Sat August 4, 2007
5-year-old shot and killed

By Johnny Johnson
Staff Writer
NOBLE — The first shot was so loud it made the hair stand straight up on Jack Tracy's arm. The bullet hit the water just a few feet in front of the boat dock where he was standing.



Instinctively, he pulled his 5-year-old grandson, Austin Haley, close to his left side and began yelling that there were people down by the pond.
Then came the second shot, and the unforgettable thump of a 9 mm bullet penetrating a young boy's skull.
"It went right through the back of his head and came out the front,” Tracy said. "He was just bleeding severely and I knew, right then, he was most likely dead, right there.”
Tracy thought he and his grandson were under attack by someone trying to kill them both, so he threw the boy into the back of a 4-wheeler and drove to his daughter's house about 200 yards away.
"Then two officers came out of the brush over there,” he said. "They didn't tell us they were the ones who had been shooting or that they had shot him. They didn't admit a doggone thing.”
Much later, Tracy said, he found out one of the officers had fired two shots in the Crest Lane neighborhood, trying to kill a snake that had become lodged in a birdhouse on the back porch of a house just up the hill from Tracy's pond.
‘I just feel really bad'
Police had gotten a call of a snake complaint from a woman on Crest Lane, whose 16-year-old daughter saw the snake hanging about 3 feet of its body outside a neighbor's bird house.
The woman, who would not identify herself, told The Oklahoman she called the police station to see if animal control could respond and take care of the snake, which she believed to be a diamondback rattlesnake.
She was told that the city, which lost its only animal control officer recently, would send a police officer over to help.
"This was just a freak and tragic accident,” the woman said, "and I just feel really bad for everyone involved.”
Other neighbors weren't as sympathetic.
Crest Lane resident Kara Johnson said there was no excuse for shooting a gun at a snake in a residential area.
"It's a shame that someone had to lose their 5-year-old child over a snake,” Johnson said. "And that's their only child. They'll never get their kid back.”
Neighbor G.W. Henderson said his wife heard a woman screaming within minutes of the shots.
"She was shouting ‘You shot my boy! You shot my boy!'” Henderson said.
Second shot hit snake
City Manager Bob Wade said rumors of overeager Noble officers are inaccurate. "I was told that they tried several ways to get the snake down, but it was still hissing at them and firmly lodged,” Wade said. "What I was told is that the owner of the home either suggested or agreed that they should go ahead and shoot the snake, and then everything happened from there.”
Wade refused to identify the officer suspected of firing the shots but said the officer has been placed on paid administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation.
Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation agents were told that officers decided to shoot the animal after being told there was a field behind them, said Jessica Brown, bureau spokeswoman.
"The first shot grazed the snake, and the second killed it,” Brown said.
Wade said he is 90 percent sure that the same bullet that killed the snake also killed Austin, but due to the trajectory of the shot and the fact that Austin and his grandfather were downhill, investigators have to be 100 percent certain.
"This is so bizarre it has to be fully investigated. ... We're pretty sure circumstantially that it is the bullet from the police officer's gun, but it might be a bullet from someone else,” Wade said.
Tracy has little doubt about what happened.
"I was standing right beside him when they shot him in the head,” he said. "There just wasn't anything I could do for this baby. He was dead. And he was just the finest Christian boy. His mother just bought him a Bible not a week before this — he wanted one that was camouflage because he was in the Lord's army.'”
Tracy said that when he saw the news reports and heard the police chief saying it was an "unfortunate accident,” the remark seemed too trivial and dismissive. . "I'm not saying the cop shot him on purpose,” Tracy said. "It was an accident. But let me tell you — if I had a kid and put him in this car and didn't put him in a car seat and he got killed on the way to town, they'd charge me with murder ... and what this cop did is a lot worse than that. ... There was no reason for him to kill my grandson.”

[OUHOMER]

WOW bad deal.... but you know. if we were out hunting and shot somebody by accident they would bring us up on manslaughter.

[KABOOKIE]

A totally dumb f-ing cop for sure.

[OKC-SLC]

That was very reckless, and Tracy has a point about the carseat statement.

I await word on this investigation--please tell me that Noble's finest feel that the only alternative to a 'hissing' snake is to shoot it. I've killed several snakes that were either on my property or in my midst when camping/hiking/fishing/whatever. And I've never used a gun to do it.

Methinks there is a high cowboy titer in that Noble police officer. He should be let go if this is truly how it went down.

[olevetonahill]

A cop shootin in the Air :mad: That dumbass needs to Be shot himself

[oumartin]

Nobles finest are pretty pathetic and this is so horrific words cannot describe it. This P.O.S. needs to be taken out and gunned down. how in the Heck can you be so stupid you f'ing moron!

[Turd_Ferguson]

A really stupid move on his part. I can't imagine being in his shoes right now. I think if it were me, I'd be contemplating giving my revolver a bj.

Prayers for the family. RIP little man:(

[Jerk]

Some chick cop in Noble tried to shoot a snake with a pistol and the bullet hit a 5 year old kid in the head? WTF?

The appropriate weapon woulda been a shotgun.

A cop should know that.

[Turd_Ferguson]

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97005

yeah. pretty messed up deal....didn't know it was a chick though.

[Harry Beanbag]

99.6% of cops are bad though, you've got to remember that.

[Turd_Ferguson]

The appropriate weapon woulda been a shotgun.

A cop should know that.

Hell, a PR-22 would have taken care of it. No need to burn any rounds.

[Harry Beanbag]

Hell, a PR-22 would have taken care of it. No need to burn any rounds.


All you need is a shovel to kill a snake.

[Turd_Ferguson]

From what I understood, the snake had crawled into the birdhouse and ate the birds. when it tried to come out, only about 3ft of it could come out because of the birds in it's tummy, so it was hanging out about three foot. They could've hit it with their night stick(or a shovel). Instead, it turned out to be a stupidly sick freak accident.

[OUHOMER]

machete should have been used, or a chain saw. Anything, shooting a gun in town with out any kind of back stop. IS BS

[OUHOMER]

You know the more i think about this the madder i get. First rule of shooting know where the damn bullet will be going.. DAMN IT

[King Crimson]

Noble has changed a lot since i lived in Norman. everybody i knew from Noble knew HOW to shoot guns.

my fave snake killer is a shovel.

[Jerk]

It gets even worse:

There was a more experienced cop present..

and..

The snake was in a tree.

[Okla-homey]

This sort of thing is precisely why Sheriff Andy made Barney keep his bullet in his pocket. Maybe small town cops shouldn't be allowed to carry loaded pistols. IMHO, Remington 870's would be safer for everyone.

[King Crimson]

snake in the tree takes the shovel *and* pistol out of play IMO.

[OUBabe]

I can't even imagine the anquish his family is going through at this moment

[jk the sooner fan]

long ago a study was done to determine the number of different kinds of calls a police officer can be called out too......it was well over 3,000........sadly, they dont train officers for anywhere near that number......add in the fact that a small town department has limited resources, and limited pay.....and you get disasters like this

just a really idiotic move on the part of the officer, and criminal as far as i'm concerned

rather than ask whats down range, they should have checked it out first....

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

Just horrible. I still want to know how Jerk knows it was a chick cop. I didn't know they had identified the officer publicly. Dumbasses come in both genders.

[Okla-homey]

I hope for the town's sake, they have an extra $10-20 million laying around to pay the judgment in that family's civil lawsuit. I should think somewhere in Oklahoma, someone is drafting the required documents to file the suit as I type this.

[Okla-homey]

Here's the national AP story:


By The Associated Press
8/4/2007 12:59 PM

Bullet meant for snake kills Noble boy

NOBLE (OK)-- A 5-year-old boy was struck and killed by a stray bullet fired by a police officer attempting to kill a snake, Noble City Manager Bob Wade said.

Wade said police received a complaint Friday night from residents in a subdivision about a snake.

When officers responded, they decided to shoot the snake.

"A few minutes later there was a commotion in a highly wooded area behind them," Wade said. "Apparently the boy was hit by a stray bullet."

The boy apparently was fishing in a pond behind the house.

The boy, whose name was not immediately released, was transported to an Oklahoma City hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

[Jerk]

Just horrible. I still want to know how Jerk knows it was a chick cop. I didn't know they had identified the officer publicly. Dumbasses come in both genders.

Well I ain't implying that chicks can't make good cops. I'm just saying..

It's a chick.

The pc culture will always let you know it's a man when someone fu**s up. But my intention was merely to be descriptive.

[dolemitesooner]

It was a fiend of mine from high school's nephew. this is really ****ed up....wow

[dolemitesooner]

From what I understand it was a rookie cop, and his supieror office told him to fire on the snake.

Jack Tracy is a Lawyer he spoke to us when he was in school. I hope he sues the **** out of them, but that won't bring back his grandson.

I am so flabergasted ...I know right where this happen. wow

[OKC-SLC]

I've killed lots of snakes. never used a gun for any of them.

[Fraggle145]

The snake was in the tree, perhaps the best solution would have been to leave it alone.

[Turd_Ferguson]

The snake was hung in a bird house, hanging from a tree. Still, they should have left it alone.

[Okla-homey]

Here's another question. I'm no snake scientist, but I'm not aware of any venomous snakes in OUr state climbing trees in pursuit of birdies. Think about it, ever hear of, let alone see, a rattler, cottonmouth or copperhead in a flippin' tree?

This becomes even more stupid, if possible, if it turns out the dead snake was harmless to people -- maybe a bull or king snake or something similar.

[StuIsTheMan]

no need for a gun or shovel...the trick is to bite them first:D

[usmc-sooner]

there wasn't any reason to even kill the snake. Thats just being plain stupid about it. No reason to even have a weapon drawn. Bad things happen when people don't use common sense with weapons. I feel bad for the family and I feel a little bad for the cop (even though she had a moment of idiocy, she's going to have to live with her idiot decision for the rest of her life) I cant imagine the pain both sides are feeling.

[usmc-sooner]

The snake was in the tree, perhaps the best solution would have been to leave it alone.

exactly I'm sure a hawk or an owl would have finished him off before too long.

[olevetonahill]

They shoulda just gathered up some beaner Kids and told em it was a Pinata

[Turd_Ferguson]

Heyooooooooooooo!:D

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

The snake was in the tree, perhaps the best solution would have been to leave it alone.Well now you're just being logical.

[KABOOKIE]

Musta been this damn ***...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOI9ahGxMfk

[SoonerGirl06]

So what's going to happen to the cop? Suspension? Administrative Leave?



Oh and BTW... I smell a lawsuit from the parents and I can't say that I really blame them either. That officer used NO common sense whatsoever. They should have called Animal Control if they were concerned with public safety.

[soonerboomer93]

if you read the DO article it states that there is no animal control and it falls on the police

[soonerboomer93]

http://newsok.com/article/3098884

Sat August 4, 2007
5-year-old shot and killed

By Johnny Johnson
Staff Writer
NOBLE — The first shot was so loud it made the hair stand straight up on Jack Tracy's arm. The bullet hit the water just a few feet in front of the boat dock where he was standing.



Instinctively, he pulled his 5-year-old grandson, Austin Haley, close to his left side and began yelling that there were people down by the pond.
Then came the second shot, and the unforgettable thump of a 9 mm bullet penetrating a young boy's skull.
"It went right through the back of his head and came out the front,” Tracy said. "He was just bleeding severely and I knew, right then, he was most likely dead, right there.”
Tracy thought he and his grandson were under attack by someone trying to kill them both, so he threw the boy into the back of a 4-wheeler and drove to his daughter's house about 200 yards away.
"Then two officers came out of the brush over there,” he said. "They didn't tell us they were the ones who had been shooting or that they had shot him. They didn't admit a doggone thing.”
Much later, Tracy said, he found out one of the officers had fired two shots in the Crest Lane neighborhood, trying to kill a snake that had become lodged in a birdhouse on the back porch of a house just up the hill from Tracy's pond.
‘I just feel really bad'
Police had gotten a call of a snake complaint from a woman on Crest Lane, whose 16-year-old daughter saw the snake hanging about 3 feet of its body outside a neighbor's bird house.
The woman, who would not identify herself, told The Oklahoman she called the police station to see if animal control could respond and take care of the snake, which she believed to be a diamondback rattlesnake.
She was told that the city, which lost its only animal control officer recently, would send a police officer over to help.
"This was just a freak and tragic accident,” the woman said, "and I just feel really bad for everyone involved.”
Other neighbors weren't as sympathetic.
Crest Lane resident Kara Johnson said there was no excuse for shooting a gun at a snake in a residential area.
"It's a shame that someone had to lose their 5-year-old child over a snake,” Johnson said. "And that's their only child. They'll never get their kid back.”
Neighbor G.W. Henderson said his wife heard a woman screaming within minutes of the shots.
"She was shouting ‘You shot my boy! You shot my boy!'” Henderson said.
Second shot hit snake
City Manager Bob Wade said rumors of overeager Noble officers are inaccurate. "I was told that they tried several ways to get the snake down, but it was still hissing at them and firmly lodged,” Wade said. "What I was told is that the owner of the home either suggested or agreed that they should go ahead and shoot the snake, and then everything happened from there.”
Wade refused to identify the officer suspected of firing the shots but said the officer has been placed on paid administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation.
Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation agents were told that officers decided to shoot the animal after being told there was a field behind them, said Jessica Brown, bureau spokeswoman.
"The first shot grazed the snake, and the second killed it,” Brown said.
Wade said he is 90 percent sure that the same bullet that killed the snake also killed Austin, but due to the trajectory of the shot and the fact that Austin and his grandfather were downhill, investigators have to be 100 percent certain.
"This is so bizarre it has to be fully investigated. ... We're pretty sure circumstantially that it is the bullet from the police officer's gun, but it might be a bullet from someone else,” Wade said.
Tracy has little doubt about what happened.
"I was standing right beside him when they shot him in the head,” he said. "There just wasn't anything I could do for this baby. He was dead. And he was just the finest Christian boy. His mother just bought him a Bible not a week before this — he wanted one that was camouflage because he was in the Lord's army.'”
Tracy said that when he saw the news reports and heard the police chief saying it was an "unfortunate accident,” the remark seemed too trivial and dismissive. . "I'm not saying the cop shot him on purpose,” Tracy said. "It was an accident. But let me tell you — if I had a kid and put him in this car and didn't put him in a car seat and he got killed on the way to town, they'd charge me with murder ... and what this cop did is a lot worse than that. ... There was no reason for him to kill my grandson.”

there ya go

[SoonerGirl06]

What would I ever do without you sb93? Thanks!

[Hatfield]

thoughts go out to that little boys family.

[TopDaugIn2000]

"The first shot grazed the snake, and the second killed it,” Brown said.

well thank goodness we got that cleared up.

[TMcGee86]

"There was no reason for him to kill my grandson.”


oops...

[TheHumanAlphabet]

What the hell are they shooting at a snake in a tree in the first place?? I hope they charge those people with manslaughter.

[C&CDean]

1. People who automatically kill snakes are ****ing morons.

2. Anybody who shoots a snake is an even bigger moron (unless it's attacking you).

3. A little kid fishing with his grandpa is dead because some numbnuts decided to shoot a snake.

4. Living with the guilt of that would have to be worse than any amount of prison time.

5. Well, maybe not, because what kind of moron goes around shooting snakes?

[sooner_born_1960]

If I lost a child like this, I'd probably have to carry around a snake just so I could shoot at it someday when that cop was in the background.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

A snake in a tree isn't about to strike anyone...certainly not a danger...Most snakes want to get away from you...

[TopDaugIn2000]

well at least the snake wasn't on the plane for Christ sakes.

[soonervegas]

deleted

[Ike]

Jeezus H. Christopher Columbus. I thought Noble cops were idiots back in my day...

Prayers to that little boys family. How does one comfort someone that loses a child to the retarded actions of one (or two or three) cops? God I feel for that family right now.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Noble cops < OUPD < Norman cops < Barney Fife ;)


Though I do question the training the Noble police officers are getting...

[stoopified]

99.6% of cops are bad though, you've got to remember that.
AS a former member of the thin blue line,I'm going to assume you ARE KIDDING.If not you are an idiot.Yes this was a tragedy and yes I feel the officer in question should be held responsible both criminally and civily BUT to say that 99.6 % of the police are bad is just asinine.

[jk the sooner fan]

AS a former member of the thin blue line,I'm going to assume you ARE KIDDING.If not you are an idiot.Yes this was a tragedy and yes I feel the officer in question should be held responsible both criminally and civily BUT to say that 99.6 % of the police are bad is just asinine.

dude, pull your claws back in, thats a running joke on the board from the soonerwill days

[StuIsTheMan]

AS a former member of the thin blue line,I'm going to assume you ARE KIDDING.If not you are an idiot.Yes this was a tragedy and yes I feel the officer in question should be held responsible both criminally and civily BUT to say that 99.6 % of the police are bad is just asinine.

Meltdown a cooming...:pop:
(I know cause I'm an expert on such things)
And prove he's wrong...just say'n it could be true. Most of the ones I met seemd a little shifty to say the least...

[Turd_Ferguson]

My thoughts and prayer's go out to Austin's family, but they also go out to the officer(s) involved. Am I wrong to think this way? After reading other website forums, it seems like the majority of people are like a lynch mob going after the officers, chief, mayor, etc. Before you ask, yes I have children. I have a 6 year old daughter. If something like this happened to her, I think I would probably freak the hell out and do something irrational. However, through life I have realized that you deal with some things diffrently when you are faced with them than you would when you just think about them.

Through a couple of contacts in Noble, I've been told the offiicer responsible, is in his early 20's. Regardless of age, I can't imagine being in his shoes. People are calling for him to be fired and to no longer be able to posess a gun. I would think that he will quit his job and no longer want to mess with guns. I think he should be found guilty of involuntary man slaughter and his superiors on the call with him should be terminated, but I do not think any of them should go to jail.

Again, am I wrong in thinking this way? If so, how, why, explain please.

[StuIsTheMan]

My thoughts and prayer's go out to Austin's family, but they also go out to the officer(s) involved. Am I wrong to think this way? After reading other website forums, it seems like the majority of people are like a lynch mob going after the officers, chief, mayor, etc. Before you ask, yes I have children. I have a 6 year old daughter. If something like this happened to her, I think I would probably freak the hell out and do something irrational. However, through life I have realized that you deal with some things diffrently when you are faced with them than you would when you just think about them.

Through a couple of contacts in Noble, I've been told the offiicer responsible, is in his early 20's. Regardless of age, I can't imagine being in his shoes. People are calling for him to be fired and to no longer be able to posess a gun. I would think that he will quit his job and no longer want to mess with guns. I think he should be found guilty of involuntary man slaughter and his superiors on the call with him should be terminated, but I do not think any of them should go to jail.

Again, am I wrong in thinking this way? If so, how, why, explain please.


Well kinda...it's not like this was a shoot out against some real bad guys in the middle of the street and someone got caught in the cross fire...This guy was prolly say'n "Just shot the thing lets get outa here"

This is Man Slaughter at the very least...and a jury should decide his fate...not his superiors...people make mistakes...and this one is a Huge one...just cause he is a cop doesn't give him a free pass here...he was neglegent in his duties and un-lawfully (in Oregon anyway) discharged his gun, and shot someone...There are lots of stupid people in jail and this guy belongs there..IMO

[FaninAma]

This story just rips your heart out and why it happened transcends all human understanding. The family will be left with a huge hole in their hearts that will never be filled. The responsible police officers will never, ever be able to forget the terrible mistake they made.

It's emotionally draining just to read about this tragedy. I cannot possibly fathom being personally involved with a tragedy like this and I pray to God that he knows that I am not strong enough to handle something like this happening to one of my kids or being in the role of the police officer.

[jk the sooner fan]

i do feel for the police officers....they were trying to do their best with limited training and resources, trying to help a citizen out who was worried about a snake......they did something very dumb and will have to carry that burden for a very very long time

i'm not sure what the proper punishment/course of action is.....i'm sure a jury somewhere will decide that another day

[Ike]

My thoughts and prayer's go out to Austin's family, but they also go out to the officer(s) involved. Am I wrong to think this way? After reading other website forums, it seems like the majority of people are like a lynch mob going after the officers, chief, mayor, etc. Before you ask, yes I have children. I have a 6 year old daughter. If something like this happened to her, I think I would probably freak the hell out and do something irrational. However, through life I have realized that you deal with some things diffrently when you are faced with them than you would when you just think about them.

Through a couple of contacts in Noble, I've been told the offiicer responsible, is in his early 20's. Regardless of age, I can't imagine being in his shoes. People are calling for him to be fired and to no longer be able to posess a gun. I would think that he will quit his job and no longer want to mess with guns. I think he should be found guilty of involuntary man slaughter and his superiors on the call with him should be terminated, but I do not think any of them should go to jail.

Again, am I wrong in thinking this way? If so, how, why, explain please.

While I do think the officer(s) involved acted in an extremely retarded way, I am not wholly unsympathetic towards them. Was it their lack of training that told them that it was safe to shoot the snake, or was it just their own pure stupidity? I don't know. I do know however that this entire situation was 100% avoidable. People (even cops, hard as it is to believe ;) ) are human, and make mistakes, and in this case, a mistake was made that cost a kid his life. Should this/these officer(s) be fed to the dogs? Probably not. But at the same time, this/these officer(s) should be held accountable for the mistake that he/they made.

[soonervegas]

deleted

[jk the sooner fan]

i think what people show in public and what they hide inside are two different things

i dont know how you can say that about somebody you dont even know

[Turd_Ferguson]

I'd like to know how you knew the person was OVER their mistake. Just because they act normal, doesn't mean they feel normal on the inside. IMO, the human brian can do some extrordinary things.

[Osce0la]

i do feel for the police officers....they were trying to do their best with limited training and resources, trying to help a citizen out who was worried about a snake......they did something very dumb and will have to carry that burden for a very very long time

i'm not sure what the proper punishment/course of action is.....i'm sure a jury somewhere will decide that another day
I have no training as a police officer or animal control, but common sense would tell me not to fire a gun at a snake hanging from a tree in a residential area...especially when there is nothing behind the snake to stop the bullet...

[oumartin]

Where was animal control in this situation? Even Noble should have a dog catcher that carries that long stick with that loop on it for this type thing.

Now in the past year in Noble I have witnessed a kid being run over on a bike with a car while the poilce ran around with their heads cut off; a freakin' psycho held up in a house get away from Noble and Norman police for hours before being arrested about 300 ft from where I was and now this. They absolutely have no clue what is going on and I think this cop was eager to fire his weapon just cuz!

[jk the sooner fan]

I have no training as a police officer or animal control, but common sense would tell me not to fire a gun at a snake hanging from a tree in a residential area...especially when there is nothing behind the snake to stop the bullet...

people in all walks of life and career choice fail to exercise common sense on a daily basis

it happens, unfortunately

[Turd_Ferguson]

I have no training as a police officer or animal control, but common sense would tell me not to fire a gun at a snake hanging from a tree in a residential area...especially when there is nothing behind the snake to stop the bullet... If you have ever been to this place, it looks like you are firing into the middle of nowhere.

[jk the sooner fan]

Where was animal control in this situation? Even Noble should have a dog catcher that carries that long stick with that loop on it for this type thing.

Now in the past year in Noble I have witnessed a kid being run over on a bike with a car while the poilce ran around with their heads cut off; a freakin' psycho held up in a house get away from Noble and Norman police for hours before being arrested about 300 ft from where I was and now this. They absolutely have no clue what is going on and I think this cop was eager to fire his weapon just cuz!

the article said that animal control was done away with, so they had to send the officers out

[Turd_Ferguson]

Where was animal control in this situation? Even Noble should have a dog catcher that carries that long stick with that loop on it for this type thing.

Now in the past year in Noble I have witnessed a kid being run over on a bike with a car while the poilce ran around with their heads cut off; a freakin' psycho held up in a house get away from Noble and Norman police for hours before being arrested about 300 ft from where I was and now this. They absolutely have no clue what is going on and I think this cop was eager to fire his weapon just cuz!After reading the same thing from different people, what make you think "this cop was eager to fire his weapon just cuz"!? Just curious.

[Osce0la]

If you have ever been to this place, it looks like you are firing into the middle of nowhere.
I did notice in one of the articles the woman that owned the home told the police officer that there was a field behind the house...sad situation either way...

[oumartin]

Well honestly I dent read past the kid being shot cuz It freakin' made me too sad. Anything else I heard on the news. So my bad on the animal control. and why did they do away with the animal control?
maybe it was to purchase a new police car cuz one of their cops ran a car into a freakin' pole!
I am just so angry about this and I honesly feel that if not for the OSBI this thing would be covered up like everything else that police department does

[jk the sooner fan]

i think animal control was done away with because of budgeting, but i'm not 100% certain on that

and the article did say that the officers asked the home owner what was down range, but they should have checked it out first

[Osce0la]

and the article did say that the officers asked the home owner what was down range, but they should have checked it out first
exactly...it isn't like the snake was going anywhere anytime soon...

[Turd_Ferguson]

Well honestly I dent read past the kid being shot cuz It freakin' made me too sad. Anything else I heard on the news. So my bad on the animal control. and why did they do away with the animal control?
maybe it was to purchase a new police car cuz one of their cops ran a car into a freakin' pole!
I am just so angry about this and I honesly feel that if not for the OSBI this thing would be covered up like everything else that police department does
And this is what I'm gettin at. I would think there is not much to cover up on story like this one, OSBI or not. I keep reading forums where people talk about cover ups because they won't release the policemans names. I have never seen a situation that they did release the officer's names until the investigation was complete.

[jk the sooner fan]

kind of hard to cover up a dead 5 year old.......

[TheHumanAlphabet]

the article said that animal control was done away with, so they had to send the officers out

I wonder if they shoot the strays as well...

[FaninAma]

Why would the police need to be called out for a snake in the first place? Talk about some helpless people on this planet.

[jk the sooner fan]

Why would the police need to be called out for a snake in the first place? Talk about some helpless people on this planet.

like i said, over 3000 different kinds of calls that officers get called out on, and snake is fairly common

some people are afraid of them, and i think she thought it was a rattle snake

the police do much much more than law enforcement

personally i'd use the 4 iron of death before i used a gun on a snake

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

And this is what I'm gettin at. I would think there is not much to cover up on story like this one, OSBI or not. I keep reading forums where people talk about cover ups because they won't release the policemans names. I have never seen a situation that they did release the officer's names until the investigation was complete.It happens frequently with dead people involved.

[jk the sooner fan]

and by no means am i defending the officers actions......

[Turd_Ferguson]

It happens frequently with dead people involved.
Really? Can you tell me one of those times? TIA.

[Harry Beanbag]

Out here they send the fire department out to pick up rattlesnakes that are in or around people's homes. I'm pretty sure they train them for it because they usually just collect them and drop them off in an unpopulated area...maybe that's just because they don't carry 9mm's though.

[oumartin]

the officer needs to be held responsible. Just as if one of us were to accidently shoot and kill someone we would be charged with a crime.
As a police officer you need to accept the responsibility that comes with carrying a firearm and irresponsibly discharging it!

[Mjcpr]

Was it a black snake?

[StuIsTheMan]

the officer needs to be held responsible. Just as if one of us were to accidently shoot and kill someone we would be charged with a crime.
As a police officer you need to accept the responsibility that comes with carrying a firearm and irresponsibly discharging it!

WORD!:D

[Ike]

like i said, over 3000 different kinds of calls that officers get called out on, and snake is fairly common

some people are afraid of them, and i think she thought it was a rattle snake

the police do much much more than law enforcement

personally i'd use the 4 iron of death before i used a gun on a snake


You never get much chance to use a 4 iron (or I don't at least). Can't say I blame you if thats the case.

[Sooner Born Sooner Bred]

Really? Can you tell me one of those times? TIA.Can't think of a specific incident, but of course they are going to protect their employee pending internal investigation.

[OKC-SLC]

Was it a black snake?
Heh.

Leave it to you to play the card.

[IB4OU]

Alabama black snake?

[skycat]

the officer needs to be held responsible. Just as if one of us were to accidently shoot and kill someone we would be charged with a crime.
As a police officer you need to accept the responsibility that comes with carrying a firearm and irresponsibly discharging it!

Exactly. A guy shooting target practice around here killed a kid a couple of months ago, and he is rightly facing prosecution.

The same thing should apply here. The officer needs to go to jail.

[Hamhock]

i don't understand why they didn't go get a shotgun.

rifles can travel hundreds of yards beyond the target and the round is very unpredictable after it hits something.

[Stoop Dawg]

and by no means am i defending the officers actions......

Perhaps not, but you've mentioned "lack of training", "lack of resources", and "over 3000 different calls" a couple of times.

I'm certainly no expert on police training, but I would think that firearm safety would be one of the first things covered. And that it would apply to all 3000 types of calls.

[jk the sooner fan]

Perhaps not, but you've mentioned "lack of training", "lack of resources", and "over 3000 different calls" a couple of times.

I'm certainly no expert on police training, but I would think that firearm safety would be one of the first things covered. And that it would apply to all 3000 types of calls.

yep, indeed it would........i also said what they did, several times, was stupid and criminal

i'm sure you glossed right over that.......anything i've added was simply for discussion.....i didnt choose to be a part of the lynch mob

[Stoop Dawg]

anything i've added was simply for discussion.....i didnt choose to be a part of the lynch mob

And I'm just discussing things here.

IMO, "lack of police training", "lack of resources", and "having over 3000 different types of calls" has no bearing on this incident at all. I doubt that any of those things made any contribution to this tragedy. That's why I'm a little confused that you have brought it up on several occasions. I could be wrong, I'm certainly no expert on these matters. Maybe they were contributing factors as you propose.

My gut says that the officers were simply being lazy, using a gun to kill a snake and not checking out the landscape before firing. I wouldn't advocate sending someone to jail based on my gut feeling, though. I think they should go ahead and have an investigation (and possibly a trial) and see what really happened there.

I'm not sure if that makes me part of some "lynch mob" or not.

[jk the sooner fan]

And I'm just discussing things here.

IMO, "lack of police training", "lack of resources", and "having over 3000 different types of calls" has no bearing on this incident at all. I doubt that any of those things made any contribution to this tragedy. That's why I'm a little confused that you have brought it up on several occasions. I could be wrong, I'm certainly no expert on these matters. Maybe they were contributing factors as you propose.

My gut says that the officers were simply being lazy, using a gun to kill a snake and not checking out the landscape before firing. I wouldn't advocate sending someone to jail based on my gut feeling, though. I think they should go ahead and have an investigation (and possibly a trial) and see what really happened there.

I'm not sure if that makes me part of some "lynch mob" or not.

lack of training has no bearing? i totally disagree....

my point was, that they dont train you in the police academy how to respond to a "snake call"....so you've got some greenhorn out there trying to do his/her best to help the person that called, and get rid of that snake.......there's no animal control.....i would venture that the noble police departments firearms training, when compared to that of a larger city, is "poor" at best

training has EVERYTHING to do with it..officers are trained how to think and react, how to problem solve...without that training they're as helpless as the next idiot

again, i'm not defending their actions.........at all.....people are asking "how does this happen"

im simply offering food for thought

i totally agree with your second paragraph and have said as much as the exact same thing in this thread

[Stoop Dawg]

lack of training has no bearing? i totally disagree....

my point was, that they dont train you in the police academy how to respond to a "snake call"....so you've got some greenhorn out there trying to do his/her best to help the person that called, and get rid of that snake.......there's no animal control.....i would venture that the noble police departments firearms training, when compared to that of a larger city, is "poor" at best

training has EVERYTHING to do with it..officers are trained how to think and react, how to problem solve...without that training they're as helpless as the next idiot

again, i'm not defending their actions.........at all.....people are asking "how does this happen"

im simply offering food for thought

i totally agree with your second paragraph and have said as much as the exact same thing in this thread

Wow, you've mellowed (sp?). Pushing your buttons is apparently going to be a little tougher now! ;)

I'm not trying to say that training plays no part, I'm trying to say that even the most basic training *should* have prevented this type of accident. If the level of firearm safety training obtained by Noble police officers is so poor that it leads to the shooting death of a 5 yr old boy who is fishing with his grandpa, well, I think something pretty drastic needs to be done about that.

I have to believe that the officers had been trained not to discharge a firearm unless their life was in danger, regardless of the situation. And while that may not be sufficient training to respond effectively to the myriad of situations in which an officer may find himself/herself, it should be enough to keep people from getting killed.

To state it another way, if the officers had simply been ineffective at dealing with the snake, I would agree that lack of training was probably a major cause. The fact that they killed an innocent bystander, regardless of the type of call they were on, makes me think that they were probably just idiots. Does that make sense? Lack of training might lead to ineffectiveness, but it should take blatant disregard for your training to kill an innocent bystander when there isn't a life-threatening situation at hand.

[jk the sooner fan]

oh certainly they are idiots....and i think better training would make them better police officers and less idiotic.......but even the big forces all have their share of idiots

and i agree, drastic measures are in need........like you said, i dont know what the proper punishment is, and frankly i'd hate to be on the jury that has to decide that

but it needs to be decided all the same

[KABOOKIE]

I have to believe that the officers had been trained not to discharge a firearm unless their life was in danger, regardless of the situation.

Yep. This should be taught on Police Academy Day 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,....

[jk the sooner fan]

Yep. This should be taught on Police Academy Day 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,....

and in most academies it is, but noble doesnt have their own academy....they get officers who are certified thru the state....they exist in a rural area where the rules are "different"

not saying its right, but its how it is.....noble gets the bottom of the barrel when it comes to personnel and equipment, at least i would think

[usmc-sooner]

I think if you don't have enough common sense to not fire a 9mm at a Snake in a tree in city limits, "training" is not the problem.