Can someone explain why it is so dificult to play SS at OU?

[MojoRisen]

I really can not understand with the highly recruited Saftey's we have why SS is such an achiles heel for us on D.

Can someone explain why it is so complicated in our scheme or if it is our personnel who has the problem?

Why would we not have Nic Harris at SS at 226 pounds and Darien Williams at FS who has proven he can man the position very well?

We are 4 deep at Corner with Franks stepping up and he can also play any other position in the Defensive Backfield. DJ wolf can play Corner or it looks like Starting SS...

Wolf better than Harris? or Clayton

Inquiring minds want to know....

[LittleWingSooner]

The simple fact that no one can do the job Roy Williams did at that position.

[The_Red_Patriot]

Roy blew coverages in College too.

[LittleWingSooner]

Roy blew coverages in College too.

Yep, but he made up for it by making plays on those blown coverages at times. And no one is perfect everyone blows a coverage once in a while. The DBs were so good in 2000 and 2001 that it made up for it. Plus there wasn't nearly as many blown coverages it seems. I think the guy that blew the most coverages in those defenses was JT Thatcher. He was probably our worst defender and he ended up picking off 8 or 9 passes in 2000.

We don't have a guy at safety like Roy Williams and we probably don't have a corner quite as good as Strait. But other then that we are pretty good with the DBs.

[OSUAggie]

You're not giving Eric Bassey his due...

[NormanPride]

Yep, but he made up for it by making plays on those blown coverages at times. And no one is perfect everyone blows a coverage once in a while. The DBs were so good in 2000 and 2001 that it made up for it. Plus there wasn't nearly as many blown coverages it seems. I think the guy that blew the most coverages in those defenses was JT Thatcher. He was probably our worst defender and he ended up picking off 8 or 9 passes in 2000.

We don't have a guy at safety like Roy Williams and we probably don't have a corner quite as good as Strait. But other then that we are pretty good with the DBs.

I think we have a few really good corners, actually. I've heard Reggie is every bit the corner that Strait was, and both Lendy and Walker have shown a lot.

[LittleWingSooner]

Reggie and Lendy and Walker are all real good. But I'm not sure I put them in Strait's class just yet. Strait was really good from day one as a redshirt freshman. And he got better each year. Marus Walker is the closest thing we have to Strait. But Strait was better.

[MojoRisen]

I feel good about the corners with Franks stepping up and Holmes could start most anywhere.

wouldn't you want Nic Harris and Darien Williams on the field at the same time as apposed to backing each other up at FS? Nic has 226 pounds on him and can run and hit. What up??

Was Everage a FS or SS? Not knocking Wolf but moving from Corner to Starting Strong Saftey is tripping me out- when we have Harris and Clayton who are big enough to stop the run and fast enough in coverage. D williams proven at FS ----

I think Wolf has a lot of potential though and I hope he has a stellar Sr. year - but I have to think it is because he is a Senior that he is getting the early nod.

[NormanPride]

I think JKM said at one point that we pretty much reverse the responsibilities of our safeties. So while you'd normally think of the SS as the hard-hitting run-stopping machine, it's actually the FS that fills that role. In which case, I'd want Harris there, and someone who can cover like DJ in the SS.

But things change, and I might be wrong about all of this. If only jkm wasn't hiding...

[MojoRisen]

That would make a lot more sense - still weird to me that the SS would be in coverage on the strong side of the ball.

Clayton would be a FS type then. - I don't by it - I believe it is because our schemes are overly complicated.

No reason this year with the experience returning that we don't dominate the passing game on defense.

[Tear Down This Wall]

I really can not understand with the highly recruited Saftey's we have why SS is such an achiles heel for us on D.

Can someone explain why it is so complicated in our scheme or if it is our personnel who has the problem?

Why would we not have Nic Harris at SS at 226 pounds and Darien Williams at FS who has proven he can man the position very well?

We are 4 deep at Corner with Franks stepping up and he can also play any other position in the Defensive Backfield. DJ wolf can play Corner or it looks like Starting SS...

Wolf better than Harris? or Clayton

Inquiring minds want to know....

Two things:

(1) The Andre Woolfolk Effect - because Andre started at both cornerback and receiver in high school, and played both at OU, Stoops & Co. think they can move any player anywhere and have it be a success. In other words, they allowed the half-witted media and fan-base to paint them as geniuses for "moving" Andre to a position he already knew how to play.

It's apparently an ego thing. Watching D.J. get beat at corner apparently isn't enough. We now have to watch him get beat at safety. The coaches won't admit that D.J. can't play in the secondary, but they've already screwed up his career at his real position, tailback. So, until game three or four...or five or six...it looks like we'll see D.J.'s talent being wasted at yet another position - all so the coaches can keep up the illusion that they're so good they can move any player anywhere.

Yes, obviously, the easiest thing to have done would have been to recruit and sign more kids who actually played cornerback in high school for the 2002-2004 recruiting classes. But, why do that? I mean, anyone can be moved to the secondary by this coaching staff, so why bother signing enough corners? I mean, Andre Woolfolk and everything....

(2) Our defensive ends coach, Bobby Jack Wright, is coaching the secondary. When Mike Stoops and Bo Pelini left in succession, Bob Stoops moved BJW to coach the secondary instead of hiring a real secondary coach.

[RedStripe]

(3) the truth is the succ

[Seamus]

That is a seriously stinging indictment. :eek:

[snp]

3) Lendy Holmes was a tremendous move from WR to CB. And that idiot coach that you take every chance to rip on is a great recruiter and is the coach of our strongest unit this fall and last.

4) You have no clue about the inner workings of the coaching staff yet still assume you do. You're the new NickZepp.



I'll ask a coach later this week.

[htownsooner7]

I'd like to hear more about the SS, FS distinction in our defense.. I also heard BV imply that there would be A LOT of times when 5 or 6 DBs would be on the field this year. Makes sense with all the spread offenses, but will put pressure on our D line to get to the QB. If you ask me, that is enemy #1 right now, gotta get to QB this year..

[LittleWingSooner]

I'd like to hear more about the SS, FS distinction in our defense.. I also heard BV imply that there would be A LOT of times when 5 or 6 DBs would be on the field this year. Makes sense with all the spread offenses, but will put pressure on our D line to get to the QB. If you ask me, that is enemy #1 right now, gotta get to QB this year..

In 2000-2003 we had more extra DB sets and we had some good 3rd LBs. I haven't looked at it play for play but since 2004 I think we've used 3 LBs more then we used it under Mike Stoops. The 3rd LBs we had in 2000-2003 were Brandon Moore, Pasha Jackson, and maybe the other one was Thunander? I could be wrong on the one in 2000. But Moore is a good NFL player.

[MojoRisen]

I'd like to hear more about the SS, FS distinction in our defense.. I also heard BV imply that there would be A LOT of times when 5 or 6 DBs would be on the field this year. Makes sense with all the spread offenses, but will put pressure on our D line to get to the QB. If you ask me, that is enemy #1 right now, gotta get to QB this year..


I agree, I know you want your best ATH at FS typically and Strong Saftey generally has more run responsibility.

Not sure how OU does it but that could make sense as too why it is dificult in our scheme based on responsibilities being based on a 4 time all pro in TRRW.

[snp]

I'd like to hear more about the SS, FS distinction in our defense.. I also heard BV imply that there would be A LOT of times when 5 or 6 DBs would be on the field this year. Makes sense with all the spread offenses, but will put pressure on our D line to get to the QB. If you ask me, that is enemy #1 right now, gotta get to QB this year..

It was like that last year as well. There's a reason why Nic Harris had such great stats from a NB.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Lendy also played CB in high school. So, again, it's not like what they've done with D.J. Defend it all you want, but what happened was our coaching staff got caught with their pants down CB-wise for the past couple of seasons due to the inability to sign and develop enough CBs.

Also, you'll note I said nothing about BJW as a recuiter. He's fine recruiting...and coaching defensive ends. As a secondary coach, he's average. Go ask any Hornfan how BJW did during his stint as their secondary coach back in the 1990s.

I tell you this, our five game win streak was snapped when Mike Stoops, then Bo Pelini left. For five years, no 'Horn QB was throwing TDs against us. In 2005 and 2006, different coach, merry-go-round secondary, different results. Pelini's co-defensive coordinator/secondary job help shut out Texas in 2004.

I've said before and I'll say it again - move BJW back to DE coach and hire a real secondary coach...and, please, sign kids every year who have some good experience at corner!

[oumartin]

I hate agreeing with TDTW and all and I don't like him baggin' on our coaches but until Pelini left We had proven Secondary coaches on staff.

Thats no longer the case and you can see the results on the field.

[stoopified]

Roy blew coverages in College too.
Blasphemy! Someone get a rope.

[MiccoMacey]

Lendy also played CB in high school. So, again, it's not like what they've done with D.J. Defend it all you want, but what happened was our coaching staff got caught with their pants down CB-wise for the past couple of seasons due to the inability to sign and develop enough CBs.

So...you're problem is that every move the coaches have made about moving people into the secondary, other than DJ Wolfe's, has been a smart move. You're bashing them for one mistake (maybe). 'Cause Andre Woolfolk and Lindy Holmes are two good examples of position moves.


Also, you'll note I said nothing about BJW as a recuiter. He's fine recruiting...and coaching defensive ends. As a secondary coach, he's average. Go ask any Hornfan how BJW did during his stint as their secondary coach back in the 1990s.

People grow...people get better...people learn by their mistakes (thank God my wife doesn't judge my sexual performance of today by what I did or didn't do in 1995. ;)) He has a great secondary this year. I don't care about what he did at Texas. He's obviously learned from it. This is our strongest position on our defense, by far. You can't admit that (which you'd be foolish not to) AND not give him credit for it.


I tell you this, our five game win streak was snapped when Mike Stoops, then Bo Pelini left. For five years, no 'Horn QB was throwing TDs against us. In 2005 and 2006, different coach, merry-go-round secondary, different results. Pelini's co-defensive coordinator/secondary job help shut out Texas in 2004.

Not a real fair assessment. There were soooo many other variables you don't want to account for to lay all the blame on just one guy.

For five years, their QBs were Applewhite and Sims. Sims proved to be a guy who failed in big time games (his pro career not withstanding). In 2005, BJW's first year as secondary coach, we faced one of the best college QB's ever in Vince Young. In 2006, we held McCoy to a little over 120 yards passing (trying to go off memory). And our offense did little to help our defense. Not bad for a merry-go-round secondary. Did people get burned? Yes. But go back and find the last perfect game played by our secondary where there were no missed assignments. You'll be at your computer a long time. Maybe a Rice team, since they run 98% of the time out of the wishbone.

And we had some great talent back there defending in 2000 through 2004. In 2005 (and even in 2006) we were extremely young across the board. You're argument isn't strong because Bobby Jack Wright didn't recruit for that position (he would have been more interested in our Ends). Mike Stoops and Pellini did. They left the cupboard bare (if that's your belief). Not BJW. He coached what was given to him.


I've said before and I'll say it again - move BJW back to DE coach and hire a real secondary coach...and, please, sign kids every year who have some good experience at corner!

1) He's got the best unit on our defense. He either did it by coaching (which disproves what you think of him), or by recruiting good players (which again disproves what you think of him). Either way, I don't agree with your thoughts on him. Not that you'll lose sleep tonight or anything. Just we don't see eye to eye.

2) If we signed Woolfolk and Holmes, and they have experience at corner, then maybe you're argument should be that the coaches failed at trying to make WR's out of them. That would make waaay more sense to me.

[NS5]

I did not read all these answers, but the reason OU has problems is the poor
showing at DT and DE. This means the running back gets in to our tier
two defense (LB'rs). The CBs and FS/SS have to support the run tackling.
This breaks down to the start of the play and the secondary moves forward to support the run and swoosh, the WR is running past the FS/SS which can
lead to a good pass and TD. If they stay back to protect the pass, then the RB makes good gains. SS/FS get all the blame. It all boils down to: No pass rush or run stop at LOS; then playing secondary can be difficult.

[MojoRisen]

IF that were true we would be hearing it more, I agree it helps but we keep hearing a Strong Saftey needs to step up.

If Reggie Smith is our best Strong Saftey - Franks should be able to man the position then.

I think we have some schemes that lend itself to breakdowns...

[oumartin]

I'm just shocked Bob is still our coach with all the great coaching minds we have here on the board

[Scott D]

this thread is very very amusing. That is all.

[MojoRisen]

All I know is I had a brother who ran a 4-7 Flat at best and was honerable mention All American at SS - behind DB's like Ricky Dickson etc etc.

We need not get burned like toast in the secondary- anymore we are Oklahoma.

I still want to know the Difference between FS and SS at OU

[MiccoMacey]

All I know is I had a brother who ran a 4-7 Flat at best and was honerable mention All American at SS - behind DB's like Ricky Dickson etc etc.

Who's your brother?

[MojoRisen]

Doug Desherow

[MiccoMacey]

THE Doug Desherow??? ;)

[TopDawg]

I tell you this, our five game win streak was snapped when Mike Stoops, then Bo Pelini left. For five years, no 'Horn QB was throwing TDs against us. In 2005 and 2006, different coach, merry-go-round secondary, different results.

It also didn't help that we were unstable at QB and breaking in a new OL.

Oh, and our best player on offense was sidelined with an injury.

[TopDawg]

We also had our fair share of poor secondary play under the Mike Stoops-coached secondary (see 2002).

[TopDawg]

And last but not least...

In NCAA 2008 I had 5 OU DBs finish as the top 5 finalists for the Jim Thorpe Award. Smith and Williams were the safeties, DJ, Lendy and Walker were the CBs (I played a lot of nickel).

DJ set the NCAA record for INTs in a season and won it.

[MiccoMacey]

That last one is the clincher, fo sho.

[birddog]

in looking up desherow's bio i noticed bears coach lovie smith was a two-time all-american at tulsa.

i had no idea.

[usmc-sooner]

And last but not least...

In NCAA 2008 I had 5 OU DBs finish as the top 5 finalists for the Jim Thorpe Award. Smith and Williams were the safeties, DJ, Lendy and Walker were the CBs (I played a lot of nickel).

DJ set the NCAA record for INTs in a season and won it.

I am Goliath :D

[sooneriniowa]

Since the coaches are just "tossing" players where ever they feel..why not put Patrick at Safety. We all know he can hit and we are fully loaded at RB. :pop:

[usmc-sooner]

the coaches have a very successful history of switching players to help them

Frank Romero
JT Thatcher
Andre Woolfolk
Jamaal Brown
Davin Joseph
Josh Norman
Antwone Savage
Curtis Fagan
Damien Mackey
Chris Chester
Mark Bradley
Dane Zaslaw
Lendy Holmes
Chris Messner
Paul Thompson
DJ Wolfe
Ian Pleasant

all have been moved to different positions at some point by Stoops and Co. from what they originally played in HS and even OU.

[snp]

Spoke with a coach, FS and SS's roles are reversed here at ou. Which explains why Reggie was the SS last year and Darrien was the FS.

Also, watch out for another position change in the secondary that hasn't been talked about yet.

[Oldnslo]

Spoke with a coach, FS and SS's roles are reversed here at ou. Which explains why Reggie was the SS last year and Darrien was the FS.

Also, watch out for another position change in the secondary that hasn't been talked about yet.
Weintraub to FS!

[snp]

Loadholdt is becoming the new field corner. You heard it here first.

[snp]

Allright it's public now:



Lendy Holmes at free safety

“He’s one of our best DB’s and right now we feel real good at corner, and we have an injury at safety with Darrien (Williams) out for a few more weeks, so we’re going to work Lendy at safety a bit and see what happens,” one OU coach said.

[MojoRisen]

Lendy had 2 picks in practice at FS

[TopDawg]

He had two big picks for me in College Station last night, too.

But that was at CB.

I'm interested to see Lendy at safety. Has he bulked up a little more?