Manual transmission drivers

[OUDoc]

Do you downshift to slow the car/truck or just put in the clutch/shift to neutral and brake? I've seen reasons for either way, including putting wear on the drivetrain. Technically, putting the car in neutral (if you do that) and coasting/braking is illegal, as I understand it. So, by the law, you should downshift, I guess.
What do you people say? (If you care, I usually downshift while slowing 'cuz I get cool popping from the exhaust when I do it. :D.)

[jk the sooner fan]

when i had one, i downshifted.....or just braked and then put the car in first gear when i came to a complete stop

[Turd_Ferguson]

I never downshift. I've been told that putting the car in neutral, coasting & not keeping the clutch depressed will **** up your tranny.

[OUDoc]

Maybe olevet can clarify (when he wakes up. :D).

[Turd_Ferguson]

Maybe olevet can clarify (when he comes to. :D).

fixed

[SoonerAcesUp]

I usually pop it into neutral and coast. I haven't heard anything either way about it hurting anything so now I'm on the edge of my seat anticipating Olevet's response.

[sooner_born_1960]

You'll go through brakes faster that way.

[Crimsontothecore]

Downshifting is not good. It reverses the mesh of the gears causing unnesessary wear. Depressing the clutch and shifting to neutral doesn't hurt a thing. I simply depress the clutch and hold it in as I apply the brake without shifting. No problem either way.....tomato, tomahto.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I'm a lawbreaker...If I have the distance, I coast in Neutral. I have 250K miles on my Honda 5-speed with the original clutch!

[TUSooner]

Downshifting is not good. It reverses the mesh of the gears causing unnesessary wear. Depressing the clutch and shifting to neutral doesn't hurt a thing. I simply depress the clutch and hold it in as I apply the brake without shifting. No problem either way.....tomato, tomahto.
Downshifting is GOOD. I've never heard of ordinary downshifting being some kind of danger to the car...unless the car is a POS, maybe. I've been doing it for 34 years and never hurt any clutch or tranny. Do you guys not downshift to make a turn?
There's nothing wrong with proper downshifting i.e., at sensible rpms. If downshifting makes the engine howl up to the redline and your passengers fly into the dashboard, you're probably overdoing it.
In gradual decelerations, the lower gear lets the engine do some braking (saving your brake pads), and it keeps ready power (and control) close at hand.
Coasting = less control, but also saves gas and is not dangerous IF you're ready to gear up in an instant. IOW: Rolling around in neutral for any significant distance is not a safe idea, so I usually keep the clutch in and the car in the proper gear just in case I need to power out of a jam or something.

Having said that, in most practical city-driving situations, you don't really have the time, or distance, or need to downshift, so coasting is OK.

As I told my daughters: When you REALLY need to stop now, forget everything but the brake!

PS - How does one "reverse the mesh" of the gears? :confused: I don't think that's really what you mean.

[sooner_born_1960]

I agree with TU.

[TUSooner]

I agree with TU.

Here's a poster of great discernment and wisdom!



:twinkies:

[TUSooner]

I'm a lawbreaker...If I have the distance, I coast in Neutral. I have 250K miles on my Honda 5-speed with the original clutch!
That IS impressive.
And I coast a more than I admit. :) It's one of the many beauties of driving a stick.

[StuIsTheMan]

DOWN SHIFT YOU LAZY FARGING BASTAGES...:D

[SoonerAcesUp]

I'm a lawbreaker...If I have the distance, I coast in Neutral. I have 250K miles on my Honda 5-speed with the original clutch!

Yep I hardly ever downshift. I have 270K on the Toyota with original clutch. Now I've probably done jinxed myself!

[sooneron]

Downshift like Nigel Mansel

[olevetonahill]

Let off the Gas and downshift, as you come to a stop , If your not stopping let off the gas and downshift into your turn .

[TheHumanAlphabet]

It sounds we all do the same things. Those of us probably coast when practical and safe, otherwise we carefully downshift to a stop or through a turn...

Now what about tires...I love to hear how the last set of tires didn't last and were no good, when lead foots and burnout artists have to buy new sets of "drifting" tires....

[TUSooner]

It sounds we all do the same things. Those of us probably coast when practical and safe, otherwise we carefully downshift to a stop or through a turn....
So I guess this thread is OVER. :rolleyes: :D

[skycat]

Like TU, even when I coast, I shift into the correct gear so I can hit the gas if needed.

[sooner_born_1960]

Over? Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

[Oldnslo]

TU is right.

I downshift.

The only problem with a downshift is when one accidentally performs what is sometimes known as a "money shift". That is, instead of downshifting from 5th to 4th, you go from 5th to --oopsie-- 2nd. This overrevs the engine, floats valvesprings and perhaps causes Mr. Piston to meet Mr. Valve and make a frowny indention.

Bad thing.

But you've got to downshift.

[PeoriaSooner]

I race and downshift ALL the time; I'm never in neutral. In commuter driving situations, you only want to coast when you're the only person on the road. If there's any other vehicle out there that you're not in control of, you need to be able to react and the only way to do that is to stay in a gear. As long as you know how to work your accelerator and clutch when shifting (either up or down) you will not hurt your tranny. Besides, hearing the roar of a jake-brakeing Hyundai is a beautiful thing. :-)

[Osce0la]

I usually put it in neutral and use the brake...only time I downshift is when I am about to make a turn...

[Turd_Ferguson]

I race and downshift ALL the time; I'm never in neutral. In commuter driving situations, you only want to coast when you're the only person on the road. If there's any other vehicle out there that you're not in control of, you need to be able to react and the only way to do that is to stay in a gear. As long as you know how to work your accelerator and clutch when shifting (either up or down) you will not hurt your tranny. Besides, hearing the roar of a jake-brakeing Hyundai is a beautiful thing. :-)

I didn't know they were putt'n Jake brakes on Hyundai's:confused:

[PeoriaSooner]

I didn't know they were putt'n Jake brakes on Hyundai's:confused:


You'd be amazed at what the South Phoenicians will do to a rice-burner to make it be heard throughout the barrio when all the exhaust mods just weren't loud enough. :-)
http://members.cox.net/keithmartindale/hyundai.jpg

[Crimsontothecore]

Downshifting is GOOD. I've never heard of ordinary downshifting being some kind of danger to the car...unless the car is a POS, maybe. I've been doing it for 34 years and never hurt any clutch or tranny. Do you guys not downshift to make a turn?
There's nothing wrong with proper downshifting i.e., at sensible rpms. If downshifting makes the engine howl up to the redline and your passengers fly into the dashboard, you're probably overdoing it.
In gradual decelerations, the lower gear lets the engine do some braking (saving your brake pads), and it keeps ready power (and control) close at hand.
Coasting = less control, but also saves gas and is not dangerous IF you're ready to gear up in an instant. IOW: Rolling around in neutral for any significant distance is not a safe idea, so I usually keep the clutch in and the car in the proper gear just in case I need to power out of a jam or something.

Having said that, in most practical city-driving situations, you don't really have the time, or distance, or need to downshift, so coasting is OK.

As I told my daughters: When you REALLY need to stop now, forget everything but the brake!

PS - How does one "reverse the mesh" of the gears? :confused: I don't think that's really what you mean.
Downshifting IS NOT good. Don't be foolish. Brakes are meant to slow or stop an automobile, not the transmission. Depressing the clutch and coasting around a corner, or to a stop, before shifting is the correct procedure and is in no way dangerous.
When you use downshifting to slow a vehicle, you are "reversing" the intended mesh of the gears thus causing wear on the opposite sides of the teeth. This will eventually cause excessive gear lash (slop) which shortens the life of the gears.

[soonerbrat]

I downshift when I turn corners, but i don't downshift to slow it down. if i'm coming to a red light or a stop i just leave it in whatever gear it's in until i'm almost stopped

[Osce0la]

I just leave it in gear, slow down, and stop...for some reason, everytime I do this the ****ing thing jumps around a little and shuts off...WTF is going on? ;)

[soonerbrat]

i push the clutch in before it dies.

[Turd_Ferguson]

I take off in 3rd to keep my clutch nice and smooth.

[TUSooner]

Downshifting IS NOT good. Don't be foolish. Brakes are meant to slow or stop an automobile, not the transmission. Depressing the clutch and coasting around a corner, or to a stop, before shifting is the correct procedure and is in no way dangerous.
When you use downshifting to slow a vehicle, you are "reversing" the intended mesh of the gears thus causing wear on the opposite sides of the teeth. This will eventually cause excessive gear lash (slop) which shortens the life of the gears.
OK, I understand what you intend by "reversing the mesh." But I disagree that proper downshifting creates a problem (and just about everything else). Proper downshifting just means getting in the right gear for the speed and rpms. A little engine-braking is incidental and no big deal; nobody is talkling about replacing the brakes with transmission.

[StuIsTheMan]

Downshifting IS NOT good. Don't be foolish. Brakes are meant to slow or stop an automobile, not the transmission. Depressing the clutch and coasting around a corner, or to a stop, before shifting is the correct procedure and is in no way dangerous.
When you use downshifting to slow a vehicle, you are "reversing" the intended mesh of the gears thus causing wear on the opposite sides of the teeth. This will eventually cause excessive gear lash (slop) which shortens the life of the gears.

Sorry I call BS...If this were the case then Automatic trannies wouldn't downshift then...right?...I SAY DOWN SHIFT TARDS!;)

[Harry Beanbag]

I grew out of manual transmissions 6 or 7 years ago, automatic is the way to go.

[Jerk]

Coasting is called "Georgia Overdrive" in truck-driver lingo.

I do what brat does, but with a Peterbilt. I'm not going to put any more wear and tear on an $8,000 transmission than I have to. Usually it goes like this...I'm cruising along in 9th or 10th gear, and a light turns red, I leave it in gear and start braking, then... just before or right at the moment the engine begins to lug, I put it in neutral. By this time I've slowed down a bunch. If the light stays red, I will have it in gear before I stop (low gear so I can go when it turns green).

I don't have the luxury of synchronizers like you guys do. If the rpm and speed aren't matched perfectly, it will grind when I try and put it into gear.

ps - I've heard that coasting too much in a car is bad, because your transmission won't get lubed.

[AlbqSooner]

Try coming off Sandia Peak with just your brakes. If you don't downshift into a lower gear and let the engine and transmission keep your speed down, there will be one of two effects:
1) You will gain too much speed and be unable to turn with the roadway thereby either crashing into the cliff wall or vaulting off the edge of the mountain, depending on the direction of the turn you missed; OR

2) Shortly before you get to the level road at the bottom of the mountain you will notice that you have no brakes left.

Similarly, if you downshift as you approach a stop, you will have more control over the car in the event some donkey in the next lane decides to merge. You will then have the choice of accelerating out of his path if that is the most efficient way to avoid being smacked.

[BudSooner]

Oh hell, just shut the engine off and let out the clutch.

That'll stop the bugger.

[C&CDean]

Downshifting IS NOT good. Don't be foolish. Brakes are meant to slow or stop an automobile, not the transmission. Depressing the clutch and coasting around a corner, or to a stop, before shifting is the correct procedure and is in no way dangerous.
When you use downshifting to slow a vehicle, you are "reversing" the intended mesh of the gears thus causing wear on the opposite sides of the teeth. This will eventually cause excessive gear lash (slop) which shortens the life of the gears.

Are you a tard?

Even in an automatic, the transmission downshifts when you slow down. You should absolutely downshift to help your vehicle slow down. This is not only common sense, it is also a safety issue. If your vehicle is always in the proper gear, you can always quickly accelerate out of trouble. If you put your manual into neutral, and come coasting up to a light, and a big-assed semi with Jerk behind the wheel is barrelling towards you, whatcha gonna do? That's right, become a Jerk pancake.

You will also save on brakes. Reverse mesh? Can I sell you some free wheeling clutch lube?

[Jerk]

Try coming off Sandia Peak with just your brakes. If you don't downshift into a lower gear and let the engine and transmission keep your speed down, there will be one of two effects:
1) You will gain too much speed and be unable to turn with the roadway thereby either crashing into the cliff wall or vaulting off the edge of the mountain, depending on the direction of the turn you missed; OR

2) Shortly before you get to the level road at the bottom of the mountain you will notice that you have no brakes left.

Similarly, if you downshift as you approach a stop, you will have more control over the car in the event some donkey in the next lane decides to merge. You will then have the choice of accelerating out of his path if that is the most efficient way to avoid being smacked.

Going down mountains is another story. It's not quiet the same as stopping at a stop sign in Oklahoma.

[TUSooner]

"jerk pancake"
heh

[Crimsontothecore]

Are you a tard?

Even in an automatic, the transmission downshifts when you slow down. You should absolutely downshift to help your vehicle slow down. This is not only common sense, it is also a safety issue. If your vehicle is always in the proper gear, you can always quickly accelerate out of trouble. If you put your manual into neutral, and come coasting up to a light, and a big-assed semi with Jerk behind the wheel is barrelling towards you, whatcha gonna do? That's right, become a Jerk pancake.

You will also save on brakes. Reverse mesh? Can I sell you some free wheeling clutch lube?
Comparing the downshifting of an automatic to that of a standard shows how clueless you are. When you downshift a standard, the transmission drives the engine instead of vice-versa. No such thing occurs when an automatic downshifts.
Downshifting is not sensible nor is it some kind of safety precaution. The proper procedure when approaching a turn or stop is to push in the clutch and keep it depressed until you need to accelerate again. You can still shift to a lower gear while holding the clutch in. This way all you need to do is release the clutch if you need to "accelerate out of trouble" as you put it.
Again, If you are going 60mph and downshift to lower gears to slow the vehicle, you are causing unnecessary gear wear. The brakes are for slowing and stopping, not the tranny. Anyone who claims to be saving brake pad wear by downshifting is a moron to say the least...or is someone who has never replaced a clutch or transmission.

[Crimsontothecore]

One more thing. I'll trade you a can of that free wheeling clutch lube for a pair of muffler bearings. That way you can extend the life of your muffler like you are your brakes:P

[olevetonahill]

"jerk pancake"
heh
:D :D :D :D
Yup

[olevetonahill]

Comparing the downshifting of an automatic to that of a standard shows how clueless you are. When you downshift a standard, the transmission drives the engine instead of vice-versa. No such thing occurs when an automatic downshifts.
Downshifting is not sensible nor is it some kind of safety precaution. The proper procedure when approaching a turn or stop is to push in the clutch and keep it depressed until you need to accelerate again. You can still shift to a lower gear while holding the clutch in. This way all you need to do is release the clutch if you need to "accelerate out of trouble" as you put it.
Again, If you are going 60mph and downshift to lower gears to slow the vehicle, you are causing unnecessary gear wear. The brakes are for slowing and stopping, not the tranny. Anyone who claims to be saving brake pad wear by downshifting is a moron to say the least...or is someone who has never replaced a clutch or transmission.
Ive replaced a bunch of all 3
Like I said In My neg to you . You are clueless !
Tell Us all how Much experince you have in Driving ?
Or mechanics !:twinkies:

[Harry Beanbag]

"jerk pancake"
heh

Ugh, I lost my appetite.

[Crimsontothecore]

Ive replaced a bunch of all 3
Like I said In My neg to you . You are clueless !
Tell Us all how Much experince you have in Driving ?
Or mechanics !:twinkies:
Been driving for 26 years. My brother is an ASE certified mechanic with whom I worked for several years while he had his own business. I've dealt with tranny shops on countless occassions and my opinion on this subject is based on what I've seen and what i've heard experts say.
So you say you've replaced a "bunch" of all three huh? And you think damaging a tranny in order to preserve brake pads makes sense?? Something tells me you're full of ****
So what are your credentials?

[Frozen Sooner]

Olevet owns an auto shop.
Dean worked as a mechanic in the Army for years.
They know what they're talking about.

[SicEmBaylor]

When I drove a standard, I think I downshifted when simply slowing down but when coming to a stop from any speed then I would simply put it into neutral, apply the clutch, and and brake.

[olevetonahill]

Been driving for 26 years. My brother is an ASE certified mechanic with whom I worked for several years while he had his own business. I've dealt with tranny shops on countless occassions and my opinion on this subject is based on what I've seen and what i've heard experts say.
So you say you've replaced a "bunch" of all three huh? And you think damaging a tranny in order to preserve brake pads makes sense?? Something tells me you're full of ****
So what are your credentials?
Uh lets see , Since Im a Moron :D
I learned to drive at the tinder age of 13 , In a 59 Chevy 3 on the tree ,
I Built My 1st Muncie 4 speed at 16 ,. Started Helping My Dad in His shop when I could walk .
Like you said in YOUR neg to me Im a moron . :P

[Crimsontothecore]

Olevet owns an auto shop.
Dean worked as a mechanic in the Army for years.
They know what they're talking about.
Gee, they must be much smarter than the mechanics and tranny specialists I've known through the years:rolleyes:
Sorry, but their opinions and statements indicate an ignorance on this subject regardless of whatever expierence they may have. But hey, They've posted here more than me so believe who you will...I'm done.

[Crimsontothecore]

Uh lets see , Since Im a Moron :D
I learned to drive at the tinder age of 13 , In a 59 Chevy 3 on the tree ,
I Built My 1st Muncie 4 speed at 16 ,. Started Helping My Dad in His shop when I could walk .
Like you said in YOUR neg to me Im a moron . :P
Then you should be embarrassed for not knowing better.

[Mongo]

the only tranny specialist is Chuck Bao, he loves him some thai trannies

[rd280z]

I never down shift to slow the car down. I use the brakes exclusively.

[OUDoc]

This is about the consensus I figured we'd get. 50/50.

[Crimsontothecore]

I never down shift to slow the car down. I use the brakes exclusively.
FINALLY, DING DING DING DING..WE HAVE A WINNER!

[Crimsontothecore]

I have a question for these "expierenced" mechanics who somehow believe downshifting a standard is the same thing an auto transmission does when it downshifts.
Do you "downshift" when you drive an automatic? Example: If you are driving at 60mph and there is a stop ahead, do you shift the transmission out of "D" and into L3, L2, or L1 to slow the vehicle? That would be the equivalent to downshifting a standard.
Can't wait to hear your answers.

[Oldnslo]

Comparing the downshifting of an automatic to that of a standard shows how clueless you are. When you downshift a standard, the transmission drives the engine instead of vice-versa. No such thing occurs when an automatic downshifts.
Downshifting is not sensible nor is it some kind of safety precaution. The proper procedure when approaching a turn or stop is to push in the clutch and keep it depressed until you need to accelerate again. You can still shift to a lower gear while holding the clutch in. This way all you need to do is release the clutch if you need to "accelerate out of trouble" as you put it.
Again, If you are going 60mph and downshift to lower gears to slow the vehicle, you are causing unnecessary gear wear. The brakes are for slowing and stopping, not the tranny. Anyone who claims to be saving brake pad wear by downshifting is a moron to say the least...or is someone who has never replaced a clutch or transmission.

I'm not a mechanic. I'm a driver.

I do not know where your advice comes from regarding the idea of keeping the clutch depressed through the apex of a turn. It's not merely contrary to what I've learned, but alien to my experience. I don't have my Bondurant materials handy, or I'd just quote them, but my memory is pretty clear that ol' Bob's driving instructions didn't include significant time in a turn with the clutch depressed. To the contrary, I remember a LOT of instruction on double-clutching, even with a synchro.

[KC//CRIMSON]

One thing is for sure, you can get A LOT better gas mileage by coasting and not downshifting. My car holds roughly ten gallons of gas and I normally get 340+ miles per tank. 350 if I'm feeling lucky.

[TUSooner]

Comparing the downshifting of an automatic to that of a standard shows how clueless you are. When you downshift a standard, the transmission drives the engine instead of vice-versa. No such thing occurs when an automatic downshifts.
Downshifting is not sensible nor is it some kind of safety precaution. The proper procedure when approaching a turn or stop is to push in the clutch and keep it depressed until you need to accelerate again. You can still shift to a lower gear while holding the clutch in. This way all you need to do is release the clutch if you need to "accelerate out of trouble" as you put it.
Again, If you are going 60mph and downshift to lower gears to slow the vehicle, you are causing unnecessary gear wear. The brakes are for slowing and stopping, not the tranny. Anyone who claims to be saving brake pad wear by downshifting is a moron to say the least...or is someone who has never replaced a clutch or transmission.
You are being too picky.
You wanna say brakes slow and stop better than engine braking? OK, you made your point (at least when not going down a hill). You wanna say it's OK to coast sometimes? meh, OK. After that, you're yapping to yap. Some of us like to drive not just roll from place to place. OK?

[AlbqSooner]

Anyone know what Crimsontothecore does for a living?

[StoopTroup]

Downshifting can really mess up a warp drive.

[OUDoc]

Warpdrive doesn't have gears.
Dork!

http://www.adrants.com/images/alltel_bribe.jpg

[Frozen Sooner]

Anyone know what Crimsontothecore does for a living?

Apparently sits around his brother's shop.

He's got an AWESOME set of tools.

[MR2-Sooner86]

I know I'm new but hell I'll give my $0.02.


Do you "downshift" when you drive an automatic? Example: If you are driving at 60mph and there is a stop ahead, do you shift the transmission out of "D" and into L3, L2, or L1 to slow the vehicle? That would be the equivalent to downshifting a standard.
Can't wait to hear your answers.

Actually it's not the equivalent, if you do it right.

For starters we have the clutch and torque converter. When you downshift in a standard, if you're not bang shifting, you clutch and the transmission is disconnected from the engine. In an automatic the car is in drive and the torque converter is spinning. You can't go from drive, to neutral, and down to L3 in an automatic. The link is still connected as you make that "downshift". In a standard when you clutch and connect the engine back to the transmission, you're already in gear, hopefully.

Now as you shift through an automatic, the torque converter is spinning and when the gear ingages it gets extra wear as it hits hard. The same can be said about bang shifting in a standard. Example, try shifting in a standard without the clutch.

To the orignal question though, it's not wrong or bad to downshift in a standard. To the people saying it's wrong, you must have a bad transmission to not be able to downshift in it. The only thing I can say is to not downshift and "skip" a gear. If you do, at least go through the motion to keep the synchronizers in line.

[Crimsontothecore]

.



Actually it's not the equivalent, if you do it right.


For starters we have the clutch and torque converter. When you downshift in a standard, if you're not bang shifting, you clutch and the transmission is disconnected from the engine. In an automatic the car is in drive and the torque converter is spinning.
The original question posted by OUDoc pertained to SLOWING a vehicle by downshifting. Let's define how you downshift to slow a car:
While driving at a higher speed, you depress the clutch and shift to a lower gear. As you release the clutch the tranny "drives" the engine to a higher rpm thus creating the resistance that slows the car. As the car slows you repeat the steps each time shifting to a lower gear.

You can't go from drive, to neutral, and down to L3 in an automatic. The link is still connected as you make that "downshift". In a standard when you clutch and connect the engine back to the transmission, you're already in gear, hopefully.
Of course you can manually downshift an auotmatic. Try it and see. It IS the closest thing to downshifting a standard to slow a vehicle. Don't forget, Others here started saying that downshifting a standard is the same thing an automatic does on its own. The reason that notion is false is because an automatic transmission is connected to the engine via the torque converter. Torque converters rely on engine rpm to create the static friction that transfers power. Therefore when you slow down while driving an automatic, whether you apply the brakes or you simply let off the accelerator, The engine rpm drops thus releasing the static friction between the torque converter and tranny. Thats why the engine doesn't die while an automatic is stopped while still in drive.
The power transfer from an automatic is a hydraulic one via the torque converter as opposed to a standards being a simple clutch that is positively engaged as long as the pedal is released regardless of engine rpm.

Now as you shift through an automatic, the torque converter is spinning and when the gear ingages it gets extra wear as it hits hard. The same can be said about bang shifting in a standard. Example, try shifting in a standard without the clutch.
You lost me on that one. I don't know about the whole "bang shifting" thing. The topic was downshifting, not shifting without the use of the clutch.
There are no "gears hitting hard" as an automatic shifts normally.

To the orignal question though, it's not wrong or bad to downshift in a standard. To the people saying it's wrong, you must have a bad transmission to not be able to downshift in it. The only thing I can say is to not downshift and "skip" a gear. If you do, at least go through the motion to keep the synchronizers in line.Nobody said they were not able to downshift. The controversy is whether or not it creates additional wear on a transmission, which it does.

[Frozen Sooner]

I'm done.
...

[Crimsontothecore]

...
Sorry. I just got bored sitting around my brother's shop admiring his AWESOME set of tools:rolleyes:
P.S. 17,870 posts? Banking must get boring to.

[Frozen Sooner]

That's cool. Is he a TV repairman?

Fast Times at Ridgemont High, man. Rent it. Watch it. Love it.

[Jerk]

P.S. 17,870 posts? Banking must get boring to.

Dude, he's probably been here since 2001 or so.

[Frozen Sooner]

Dude, he's probably been here since 2001 or so.

2000, I think.

We've had a couple of board resets, though.

He's right, though. Banking does get kinda boring at times.

[Crimsontothecore]

Dude, he's probably been here since 2001 or so.
Dude, it was a joke...chill

[Jerk]

Hah. You thinking I'm freaking out or something?

[Crimsontothecore]

That's cool. Is he a TV repairman?

Fast Times at Ridgemont High, man. Rent it. Watch it. Love it.
That is a good movie. I just hope I can locate the complete video library of Barnaby Jones....that was the best show ever!:D

[Crimsontothecore]

Hah. You thinking I'm freaking out or something?
Seriously dude, calm down. You're shaking like a leaf. Take a deep breath.

[Jerk]

Seriously dude, calm down. You're shaking like a leaf. Take a deep breath.

Ok whatever, man.:rolleyes: