Healthcare for everybody!!!!!!!

[jk the sooner fan]

is REALLY expensive (http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010374)

[Widescreen]

Expense is no issue - just let the government manage everything. Is there anything the government can't solve?

[Petro-Sooner]

The government is the BEST!!!!!

[picasso]

Expense is no issue - just let the government manage everything. Is there anything the government can't solve?
I've had gubment run health care.

it sucks.

[thenotman]

It represents an average of $510 a month in higher taxes for every Wisconsin worker.

I wish my health INSURANCE was only $510 a month....

[SoonerBBall]

Is there any doubt the federal government would turn socialized healthcare into a brilliant success?? I mean, just look at Medicare and Social Security!! Those two programs alone should prove to you that the government is more than capable of managing a program as large and complicated as socialized healthcare.

[StuIsTheMan]

Sorry I got VA coverage...don't cost me a thing:D

[jk the sooner fan]

so you have 100% disability with the VA?

[Howzit]

Expense is no issue - just let the government manage everything. Is there anything the government can't solve?

Iraq.

[Sooner98]

It doesn't matter what it costs, free healthcare is an inalienable right, guaranteed by our founding fathers in the Constitution. Isn't it?

[StuIsTheMan]

so you have 100% disability with the VA?
Yup...that explains alot huh:D
I only recieve about treefitty a month for dissablity but the lack of paying for healthcare is worth the smaller check.

[Petro-Sooner]

It doesn't matter what it costs, free healthcare is an inalienable right, guaranteed by our founding fathers in the Constitution. Isn't it?

You serious Clark?

[Sooner98]

No.

[royalfan5]

I have a foolproof plan to provide free universal healthcare for all residents of the United States.

[sooner n houston]

It represents an average of $510 a month in higher taxes for every Wisconsin worker.

I wish my health INSURANCE was only $510 a month....

Thats a $510 increase. It does not include the amount you are already paying for the Govt to subsidise healthcare. Plus you would get the wonderful benefit of waiting years to have that surgery.

[jk the sooner fan]

Yup...that explains alot huh:D
I only recieve about treefitty a month for dissablity but the lack of paying for healthcare is worth the smaller check.


hmm, you must be with a different VA, i'm at 40% and get a check bigger than that

[StuIsTheMan]

hmm, you must be with a different VA, i'm at 40% and get a check bigger than that

But you pay for some of your health care cost too right?

[thenotman]

Thats a $510 increase. It does not include the amount you are already paying for the Govt to subsidise healthcare. Plus you would get the wonderful benefit of waiting years to have that surgery.

If I stop paying the $720 it is now to the insuranace and then am taxed $510 more thats a decrease of $210... Sounds like a deal to me

[jk the sooner fan]

But you pay for some of your health care cost too right?

i dont use the VA, although i could for a couple of things (knee, ankle)

i pay an annual premium to tricare and pay co-pays, etc

[TopDaugIn2000]

I have a foolproof plan to provide free universal healthcare for all ENGRISH SPEAKING residents of the United States.


FIXED

[royalfan5]

FIXED
My plan does not discriminate based on race, color, or language.

[olevetonahill]

i dont use the VA, although i could for a couple of things (knee, ankle)

i pay an annual premium to tricare and pay co-pays, etc
You Have Tricare cause ya retired . Us others get the VA cause we didnt
Have they changed the Law on concurrent reciept ?

[jk the sooner fan]

If I stop paying the $720 it is now to the insuranace and then am taxed $510 more thats a decrease of $210... Sounds like a deal to me

i think its saying you pay 510 on top of the 720

[usmc-sooner]

The Canadians are starting to sue because of their "free health care" Their Supreme Courts have upheld these suits saying that being on a waiting list is not equal to having access to healthcare.

I believe the waiting list is up to three years for some of their major surgeries like hip replacements.

[thenotman]

i think its saying you pay 510 on top of the 720

I don't think it is.

[SCOUT]

The Canadian Government (through a company called Statistics Canada) does a survey every year called "Access to Health Care Services in Canada." It reads like your typical government report but it does have some decent information. It is in pdf or I would post a couple of tables. Pages 16-19 have some summary tables.

Here is the link for January through December 2005
http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/82-575-XIE/82-575-XIE2006002.pdf

[usmc-sooner]

The Canadian Government (through a company called Statistics Canada) does a survey every year called "Access to Health Care Services in Canada." It reads like your typical government report but it does have some decent information. It is in pdf or I would post a couple of tables. Pages 16-19 have some summary tables.

Here is the link for January through December 2005
http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/82-575-XIE/82-575-XIE2006002.pdf

seems like they were telling the story in there favor because in 2006 and 2007, Canadians started taking their complaints to the Supreme Court. Anyways I didn't read it all but it seemed to be touching on what I was pointing out that more and more Canadians felt like they had to wait to long.

this also caught my eye. Most Canadians polled said they received their medical care with 3 to 4 months. Most? and 3 to 4 months?

[mdklatt]

It doesn't matter what it costs, free healthcare is an inalienable right, guaranteed by our founding fathers in the Constitution. Isn't it?

You're aware, of course, that everybody in the country already has free emergency health care--free as in paid for by taxpayers. It's a truism in health care than preventative care is a whole lot cheaper. And in the age of bioterrorism, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out why easy access to health care is a national security issue.

But never mind practical considerations. There's demagoguery to be done!

[TopDaugIn2000]

My plan does not discriminate based on race, color, or language.

mine does.

[royalfan5]

mine does.
But mine will be absolutely free to everyone. Yours will just waste taxpayer dollars.

[TopDaugIn2000]

You're aware, of course, that everybody in the country already has free emergency health care--free as in paid for by taxpayers. It's a truism in health care than preventative care is a whole lot cheaper. And in the age of bioterrorism, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out why easy access to health care is a national security issue.

But never mind practical considerations. There's demagoguery to be done!

yeah, and that's why my aunt that had green goo oozing from the incision in her head that turned out to be a staff infection in her BRAIN had to wait 10 hours in the ER for a BED behind all those bratty kids with a cough & runny nose.

[Vaevictis]

Hip Replacement in Canada: 10% waited 15 months or more.

As far as 3-4 months go, that sucks from some people's point of view, and it's great from other's. I've known people who've gone years and years without health care in this country.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Equating Canada's system to all universal health care systems is wrong, and frankly, straight up ignorant. Canada doesn't just guarantee access to health care to everyone, it goes a step further and illegalizes private practice too. And that step further what really causes problems in the system; there's no "safety valve", so to speak, where you can go out of the system if you feel the need to.

But not all countries with universal health care are like that. Britain has national health care, *and* a private system. I know a few Brits -- and a few American ex-pats in Britain -- who love the system. They purchase private insurance, and when the services they need/want are readily available through the national system, they use that. When it's not, or they don't like exactly what the national system provides, they lean on the private insurance.

[Widescreen]

Iraq.
Only a matter of time, my friend. Social Security has only been going for a few decades and it's just about perfect now. In 2050, Iraq should be gold.

[TopDaugIn2000]

Only a matter of time, my friend. Social Security has only been going for a few decades and it's just about perfect now. In 2050, Iraq should be non-existant.


FIXED.

[SoonerBOI]

The problem with healthcare in our country is simple. Stop treating illegal aliens! I used my health insurance for the first time (twisted ankle), went to the doctor and saw a flood of amigos. They did not know how to fill up those medical forms and someone asked my help. I obliged. I then asked the amigo what health insurance he'll be using. I was floored when he said "medicaid", gratis. Oh well, I have to shoulder my copay and I went to the pharmacy and saw the same amigos. He proudly showed me his receipt, copay - 0.

I felt sick afterwards...

[SoonerBBall]

You're aware, of course, that everybody in the country already has free emergency health care--free as in paid for by taxpayers. It's a truism in health care than preventative care is a whole lot cheaper. And in the age of bioterrorism, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out why easy access to health care is a national security issue.

But never mind practical considerations. There's demagoguery to be done!

I'm still waiting for you to tell me why you think the government has the resources to properly implement this wonderful system that will make everyone healthier, encourage them to get preventative care (which they can already do cheaply without healthcare, they just choose not to), protect us from bioterrorism (wtf?), and generally raise our level of health and wellness.

[Rogue]

You Have Tricare cause ya retired . Us others get the VA cause we didnt
Have they changed the Law on concurrent reciept ?

Yes, concurrent receipt is a reality now. Or coming soon depending on where you are in the system. It's so complicated that a team of Philadelphia lawyers and bureaucrats can't figure it out, but it is possible now.

[Rogue]

yadda yadda yadda... I mean, just look at Medicare and Social Security!! Those two programs alone should prove to you that the government is more than capable of managing a program as large and complicated as socialized healthcare.

Do you know anyone...ANYONE...eligible for Medicare and SS that just doesn't take advantage of it? The only ones I know are the ones that are lining up at the office to sign up tomorrow. Not that they are as good as they could be, but they aren't so bad that people just say, "no thanks I'm good without it."

[mdklatt]

I'm still waiting for you to tell me why you think the government has the resources to properly implement this wonderful system that will make everyone healthier, encourage them to get preventative care (which they can already do cheaply without healthcare, they just choose not to), protect us from bioterrorism (wtf?), and generally raise our level of health and wellness.


First of all, why should health insurance be the responsibility of employers? Rapidly rising health care costs are dragging down businesses. Look at GM. Even OU is struggling with health care costs. OU's costs have been going up, but out-of-pocket expenses for employees with dependents have been going up even faster. It's difficult to attract and retain faculty and staff when they can't afford the insurance. They're considering making people who don't have dependents pay more to help offset the costs of those who do.

Here's my solution:

Step 1: Take all the health care benefits that are now being paid by employers and give it directly to the employees. At worst this is break even for the employer, but in reality it will be a benefit because they can get rid of their health plan administration. Plus, they no longer have to deal directly with rising health costs.

Step 2: The employer takes the extra money and buys a plan from the government. At worst, this is break even for the employee. But in reality this would be better, too. The costs for a national plan (there could be many options to choose from--more choices than your employer gives you) would be a lot cheaper because the number of insureds would be a lot higher.

Step 3: The money saved could be used to subsidize the costs for low-income people, which we're already doing in a much less efficient way.

Notice that the only thing that is really changed is who is paying the insurance companies--the government instead of your employer.

[GrapevineSooner]

But not all countries with universal health care are like that. Britain has national health care, *and* a private system. I know a few Brits -- and a few American ex-pats in Britain -- who love the system. They purchase private insurance, and when the services they need/want are readily available through the national system, they use that. When it's not, or they don't like exactly what the national system provides, they lean on the private insurance.

How much do they pay for optional private insurance? On top of the mandatory tax for the NHS?

[StuIsTheMan]

How much do they pay for optional private insurance? On top of the mandatory tax for the NHS?
about treefitty

[GrapevineSooner]

I generally agree with mdklatt on this. Especially the part about eliminating employer-funded healthcare (thank you, FDR). I don't ever think a proposal like this would ever see the light of day, however.

And since it's quittin' time, I can't expound on the reasons why. :D

[Vaevictis]

How much do they pay for optional private insurance? On top of the mandatory tax for the NHS?

I only got figures from one of them -- at the time (and this was about three years ago) the figure was around 100 pounds a month for the "works," so to speak. Guy and his wife are non-smokers in their thirties, so that's probably the low end.

Whatever the rest of them were paying, they weren't complaining.

Apparently, a lot of times, the insurance is pretty cheap because it's structured so that it only kicks in when something isn't covered by the national insurance or when the national insurance can't service you in a certain period of time.

[SoonerBBall]

Do you know anyone...ANYONE...eligible for Medicare and SS that just doesn't take advantage of it? The only ones I know are the ones that are lining up at the office to sign up tomorrow. Not that they are as good as they could be, but they aren't so bad that people just say, "no thanks I'm good without it."

Because I was obviously talking about the physical way they deliver the money and not the fact that the government has managed to earn less than 1% a year on the money that is put into Social Security. This would be in contrast to the 4% they could earn if they bought their own bonds to invest in instead.

[Vaevictis]

Because I was obviously talking about the physical way they deliver the money and not the fact that the government has managed to earn less than 1% a year on the money that is put into Social Security. This would be in contrast to the 4% they could earn if they bought their own bonds to invest in instead.

It's not helping that the goddamn politicians are spending the money, not saving it. Loaning yourself money as an investment vehicle doesn't really work.

[olevetonahill]

Do you know anyone...ANYONE...eligible for Medicare and SS that just doesn't take advantage of it? The only ones I know are the ones that are lining up at the office to sign up tomorrow. Not that they are as good as they could be, but they aren't so bad that people just say, "no thanks I'm good without it."
Me !
After 14 yrs of Paying for Medicare . I said WTF . Why do I need it Th VA treats My every need . Dental . Opty etal .
So I cancelled it and am saving a 100 a month !:D

[47straight]

It doesn't matter what it costs, free healthcare is an inalienable right, guaranteed by our founding fathers in the Constitution. Isn't it?


All you need is 5 people in robes and degrees from Yale School of Law and Liberal Public Polocy to write it into the 14th amendment.

[Okla-homey]

Here's my schweiz pfennig on all this. I think some form of universal health care is inevitable. The hoi polloi are too fired-up in favor of it, and it is rapidly becoming non-PC for a politician to oppose it.

That said, I'm down with it (because like the dawn, it's coming whether we want it or not) BUT, and this is an enormous Oprah-sized but (from when she was a size 24,) THEY BETTER NOT MAKE IT ILLEGAL TO PAY OUT OF POCKET OR USE PRIVATE INSURANCE FOR TREATMENT COVERED BY THE GOVERNMENT PROGRAM! That is the situation in Canada.

IOW, if I want to pay for private insurance and avoid the inherent hassles, waiting and general hosed-upness of state health care, I want that option. If we get sold dowjn the river on that issue, that would suc with the succage of a thousand queers just released from a year in solitary confinement.

[Suerreal]

The problem with healthcare in our country is simple. Stop treating illegal aliens! I used my health insurance for the first time (twisted ankle), went to the doctor and saw a flood of amigos. They did not know how to fill up those medical forms and someone asked my help. I obliged. I then asked the amigo what health insurance he'll be using. I was floored when he said "medicaid", gratis. Oh well, I have to shoulder my copay and I went to the pharmacy and saw the same amigos. He proudly showed me his receipt, copay - 0.

I felt sick afterwards...

You don't know the half of it. When your doctor agreed to see any Medicaid or Medicare patient, he agreed to provide (at no extra charge to the government, of course) a translator for any language spoken by any patient seeking care. Guess who winds up paying for that, too.

- Sue

[Suerreal]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Equating Canada's system to all universal health care systems is wrong, and frankly, straight up ignorant. Canada doesn't just guarantee access to health care to everyone, it goes a step further and illegalizes private practice too. And that step further what really causes problems in the system; there's no "safety valve", so to speak, where you can go out of the system if you feel the need to.

Actually there is a safety valve. Go to the US (or commonly, Brazil, India, Israel, or other countries) in what is being called "medical tourism" to get your care. Americans do this to - often the airfare, hotel, and care cost less than the care here in the US.

Of course in India, the undisclosed "assistant surgeon" may be the doc's 15 year son trying to get into the Guinness Book of Records. :eek:

- Sue

[Widescreen]

That said, I'm down with it (because like the dawn, it's coming whether we want it or not)
Homey, for all the things I agree with you on, you sure do cave to the "inevitable" a lot. The other example is your attitude that illegal immigrants are already here, so it's OK and we shouldn't worry about it. If everybody had felt that way, we'd be stuck with that horrific immigration bill last month and Dubai would be running our ports.

[SoonerBBall]

It's not helping that the goddamn politicians are spending the money, not saving it. Loaning yourself money as an investment vehicle doesn't really work.

Exactly!!

[Okla-homey]

Homey, for all the things I agree with you on, you sure do cave to the "inevitable" a lot. The other example is your attitude that illegal immigrants are already here, so it's OK and we shouldn't worry about it. If everybody had felt that way, we'd be stuck with that horrific immigration bill last month and Dubai would be running our ports.

Two points. First, did I miss something in the news about the exit of the 15-20million illegals living here? Did they all go home? Has Congress passed some bill to deal with the situation? Are the millions here paying taxes all of a sudden? Second: The statement "Dubai running our ports" is pure hyperbole. As I recall. the political huff involved an experienced, large international port operations corporation with its headquarters in Dubai bidding and winning a contract to run some of our ports.