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Chuck Bao
7/14/2007, 08:09 PM
•The head of internal security is automatically the army commander-in-chief.

•Internal security can search and arrest anyone at anytime, including the prime minister.

•Internal security can intervene in the judicial process, appoint joint police interrogators and subpoena police investigation documents.

•There is no legal redress by those affected.

This is scary.

The “War on Terror” is having unintended consequences in some fledgling democracies in the developing world. No, I’m not directly blaming Bush. I’m just saying that they wouldn’t have tried this crap if freedoms weren’t also under siege elsewhere.

It’s being promulgated as a law. It’s not in the constitution that the Thai people will vote either up or down on August 19. The next elected government coming from the November or December elections can reverse the law, that is if the next prime minister isn’t arrested before he gets a chance to try.

Sneaky fill-out-the-form, automatic coup this is.

Stop the nonsense now.


Law would be 'a coup by stealth'
Academic slams draft legislation; ex-senators to petition their peers
Published on July 15, 2007

The military junta is quietly staging yet another coup d'tat, turning Thailand into its notorious neighbour, Burma, by trying to pass the draconian internal security bill while the public is preoccupied with debating whether to approve or reject the new draft charter, says a political scientist.

Some former senators are trying to collect the signatures of their peers against the bill.

"This law will give great power to the Internal Security Operation Command [Isoc] and in effect pass the power of government and politicians to the Army. It's a quiet coup and poses the question whether it will lead to Thailand becoming a military state," Chulalongkorn University political scientist Surachart Bamrungsuk said yesterday at a symposium on the proposed Internal Security Act organised by a group of former senators in cooperation with the Matichon newspaper group.

Surachart decried fellow academics who have mostly been quiet about the bill and said the peculiar silence on the part of Thai academics was "very strange". He added that if the bill, which has already been approved by the junta-appointed Cabinet, is approved by the junta-appointed National Legislative Assembly (NLA), human-rights violations by the military will become easy, and this will turn Thailand into another Burma.

Former Tak senator Panas Tasneeyanond, who is representing the Club of Former Senators who served from 2000 to 2006, said the bill was not unlike the anti-communist law during the Cold War and was in itself a "threat to national security".

He said the basic rights of citizens would be curbed under the law. "The law gives immense power to the military and restricts the democratic rule of law. It seeks to re-establish a long-defunct military state," Panas said, referring to the Cold War period when Thailand was run by successive military regimes.

The former senator added that the club would shortly issue a statement opposing the bill and petition Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont, the National Security Council and the Chairman of the National Legislative Assembly.

The former dean of Thammasat University's Law Faculty, Kamchai Chongchakphan, concurred and warned that the right of assembly would be curtailed under the new act and anyone could be put under house arrest by the Isoc director, a post traditionally occupied by the Army chief. Other draconian powers under the law include search and arrest without warrant, intervention in the judicial process to appoint joint police interrogators and the subpoenaing of police investigation documents without being answerable to a court of law and with no legal redress by those affected.

"I can scarcely believe that this law is to be passed for national security or for the people's well-being; it's interesting to speculate whose 'security' it is intended for," Kamchai said, adding that the existing power of the Cabinet to declare a state of emergency granted enough power to deal with any national problem.

Another speaker, human-rights commissioner Jaran Dittha-apichai, said such a law would be unconstitutional, considering that both the Cabinet and the NLA were appointed by the Council for National Security itself. He added that it contravened international treaties on citizens' rights to which Thailand was a signatory and would cause diplomatic problems.

Meanwhile the caretaker leader of the now disbanded Thai Rak Thai Party, Chaturon Chaisang, said the bill would perpetuate military rule because the Army chief would become "all-powerful" and it would no longer be of any relevance whether future prime ministers or cabinets were elected or whether there was a constitution, because everything would be up to the Army, which could order the arrest of any person on a whim.

Chaturon said the law would empower any Army chief to tear up the constitution at a moment's notice and pave the way for a coup.

Mongo
7/14/2007, 08:14 PM
The “War on Terror” is having unintended consequences in some fledgling democracies in the developing world. No, I’m not directly blaming Bush. I’m just saying that they wouldn’t have tried this crap if freedoms weren’t also under siege elsewhere.

You cant blame what the US is doing for what is happening in Thia. What is good for the US, is not always good for the rest of the world. If they want to copy us, then that is their choice.

Freedoms under siege? Where?

King Crimson
7/14/2007, 08:23 PM
most countries aren't spending 18 billion dollars a month on wars in Afghanistan and Iraq that *aren't about oil*, either.

it's about democracy. and being the global moral leader.

Sooner24
7/14/2007, 08:24 PM
You cant blame what the US is doing for what is happening in Thia. What is good for the US, is not always good for the rest of the world. If they want to copy us, then that is their choice.

Freedoms under siege? Where?

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95719

:rolleyes: :D

Chuck Bao
7/14/2007, 08:28 PM
Yes I can.

That is exactly the overseas perception from the monitoring of Americans abroad, holding non-nationals indefinitely and suspension of the Geneva Convention.

Right or wrong, that's the impression.

If this law is enacted, I will be most curious about the statement from the US State Department.

I'm still hoping.

Mongo
7/14/2007, 08:33 PM
most countries aren't spending 18 billion dollars a month on wars in Afghanistan and Iraq that *aren't about oil*, either.

it's about democracy. and being the global moral leader.

war for oil huh? Cant yall come up with a better excuse, We benefit from this how? seeing that I am paying at least 70 dollars a fill up.

And the moral high ground argument is the same as trying to legislate morality, you cant do it.

Mongo
7/14/2007, 08:44 PM
Yes I can.

That is exactly the overseas perception from the monitoring of Americans abroad, holding non-nationals indefinitely and suspension of the Geneva Convention.

Right or wrong, that's the impression.

If this law is enacted, I will be most curious about the statement from the US State Department.

I'm still hoping.

Didnt our monitoring and the British's similar, yet tougher, monitoring program stop death and destruction across England? Didnt the programs serve their purpose? Why cant you see the good the monitoring programs do?

Have you personally been monitored or had your geneva suspended?

Chuck Bao
7/14/2007, 08:53 PM
So, you've got the inside story there, Mongo, that monitoring Americans abroad and forcefully produced confessions and leads stopped death and destruction ALL across England?

I think the UK government needs to give major kudos to the US for all of that.

But, I think we are going off my original point about the US unintentionally giving the green light to would-be dictators in countries that have been allies.

To be sincere and truthful here. I'm astounded by the willingness of some Americans to trade in freedoms for security. Most countries in the world face terror threats every day and they still are fighting for democracy and their rights.

Mongo
7/14/2007, 08:56 PM
So, you've got the inside story there, Mongo, that monitoring Americans abroad and forcefully produced confessions and leads stopped death and destruction ALL across England?

I think the UK government needs to give major kudos to the US for all of that.



Damn dude, just asking a few questions.

And you get my point about the monitoring. It can help.

Chuck Bao
7/14/2007, 09:09 PM
Damn dude, just asking a few questions.

And you get my point about the monitoring. It can help.

I need to remember to use more smilies and winkies.

Yes, it can and clearly does help. I just like that checks-and-balances idea too.

As I posted before, the US State Department has a chance to express their view about this proposed law. It will have a huge impact, as it always does.

Mongo
7/14/2007, 09:13 PM
You may not totally trust the gov, and neither do I, but I know that the US gov would handle monitoring much better than a coup led gov.

stay safe

olevetonahill
7/14/2007, 09:24 PM
I trust the Gov .
Absolutly . They be what keeps us safe !:cool:

Chuck Bao
7/22/2007, 10:52 AM
They're fighting. They're fighting on the streets now.

I'm going to go to the fight. Okay, I won't start anything. I just don't want to see people beat up for the right/wrong reasons. These are probably goons hired on both sides, but sometimes you have to take sides.

Flagstaffsooner
7/22/2007, 10:59 AM
They're fighting. They're fighting on the streets now.

I'm going to go to the fight. Okay, I won't start anything. I just don't want to see people beat up for the right/wrong reasons. These are probably goons hired on both sides, but sometimes you have to take sides.Holder Knute, Chuck, stay out of that crap!

jk the sooner fan
7/22/2007, 11:24 AM
most countries aren't spending 18 billion dollars a month on wars in Afghanistan and Iraq that *aren't about oil*, either.

it's about democracy. and being the global moral leader.

war for oil....lol

you liberals throw that mantra around pretty easily

ok, lets leave iraq........and let iran get to the business they are chomping at the bit for

then see what gas prices are

King Crimson
7/22/2007, 11:33 AM
war for oil....lol

you liberals throw that mantra around pretty easily

ok, lets leave iraq........and let iran get to the business they are chomping at the bit for

then see what gas prices are

you are the king of putting words in other people's mouths, and then making some attempt to refute it.

so you lampoon the assertion it's about oil. and then round out that ballbuster of an argument by threatening "liberals" like me (read: people who aren't pro military 100% all the time like you).....with high oil prices.

nice try. next you'll "quote" me as saying "Iran isn't a threat" like you did earlier in the week.....when what i posted was i heard BBC radio interviews with Iranians saying that the US representation of Iran is not accurate. and I do know what you will post next about Iran.

Vaevictis
7/22/2007, 11:44 AM
war for oil....lol

you liberals throw that mantra around pretty easily

Not that I'm saying that it's the case here, but why the hell not?

If we're willing to overthrow a democratically elected government, install a dictator, help that dictator remain in power by helping to set up and train his secret police who disappeared, murdered and tortured people, and then pretend that the people in that country have no good reason to have a problem with us...

Well ****, if we're willing to do all that FOR OIL, why the hell is a little war out of the question?

jk the sooner fan
7/22/2007, 12:09 PM
Not that I'm saying that it's the case here, but why the hell not?

If we're willing to overthrow a democratically elected government, install a dictator, help that dictator remain in power by helping to set up and train his secret police who disappeared, murdered and tortured people, and then pretend that the people in that country have no good reason to have a problem with us...

Well ****, if we're willing to do all that FOR OIL, why the hell is a little war out of the question?

right, why the hell not, i never said it wasnt a war for oil.....i just dont see a huge problem fighting over something that we rely on so much

Vaevictis
7/22/2007, 12:31 PM
Ah, okay. Misunderstood your comment then. :)

Chuck Bao
7/22/2007, 02:00 PM
I’m back home and safe.

The whole thing was way over by the time I got there.

The police blocked off most of all traffic leading to the protests.

My taxi driver drove around the blocked off areas. I eventually decided to walk in by myself, a distance of only a couple of miles.

Once I got to the center of the protest area, the police weren’t happy about me being there and taking pictures. I got a quick escort out. It wasn’t too quick because of all of the rubble on the streets.

So, I was just curious as to why some people wanted to attack the home of Privy Councilor Prem and how some of the police felt about the military’s attempts to restructure the police. I didn’t get answers to either questions.

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ThaiTalk/2007/07/22/entry-2

These were not good pictures. It was night and I got smoke or tear gas or something in my eyes.

http://img5.ranchoweb.com/images/kanunu/img_0243editedresized.jpg

http://img5.ranchoweb.com/images/kanunu/img_0244editresized.jpg

http://img5.ranchoweb.com/images/kanunu/img_0247.editresized.jpg

jk the sooner fan
7/22/2007, 03:18 PM
holy crap dude........be safe over there


and KC - its good to be the king of something ;)