View Full Version : Hooray! Shiny, slightly used city hall!
hurricane'bone
7/12/2007, 11:38 PM
City Hall move authorized by council
by: STAFF REPORTS
7/12/2007 10:05 PM
The City Council has authorized the incurring of up to $76 million in debt for the consolidation of City Hall into One Technology Center, a high-tech, 15-story glass building at 100 S. Cincinnati Ave.
At a City Council meeting that went late into the evening Thursday, Mayor Kathy Taylor said the move "makes great financial sense.”
"Make no doubt about it: This is change, and change is difficult," she said. "There will always be and have always been naysayers in our city that don't want us to change, and that is part of the reason our city has been stagnant over the years past as the suburbs have leaped past us."
The repayment of the $76 million in bonds is dependent on the revenue of at least three tenants leasing the space the city wouldn't occupy in the new building.
During the meeting, Councilor Cason Carter proposed an amendment to the resolution that would require that one of two conditions occur prior to the financing of the transaction.
One of the conditions is the administration's securing of a master lease with a third party who would assume the risk of the finding renters for the excess space.
If that can't be accomplished, the city would create a reserve fund containing capital assets with value of at least $12 million, Carter said.
His amendment was included in the resolution the council passed.
The $76 million includes the cost of the building, which sources close to the deal say is $52.25 million. The rest of the money would cover the bonding costs, the demolition of some vacated city structures, relocation costs, security and a consultant commission fee.
link (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070712_1__TheCi73843&breadcrumb=Breaking%20News)
StoopTroup
7/13/2007, 03:20 AM
Whoopie!!!
Okla-homey
7/13/2007, 05:34 AM
Very lame-a$$ed move IMHO.
Very lame-a$$ed move IMHO.
Go on....
OKLA21FAN
7/13/2007, 08:17 AM
two city halls?
yep Tulsa > OKC
JohnnyMack
7/13/2007, 09:07 AM
Tuba is gonna be ****ed...
Tuba is gonna be ****ed...
That's just gravy.
:D
mikeelikee
7/13/2007, 09:11 AM
Radio station I like to listen to in the morning played the theme song to "Good Times"--"Well, we're movin' on up....to the East Side!" Hilarious!
That's right folks--let's move essentially all our city government into a GLASS building, located next to the tallest building in Tulsa, the BOk tower, that was designed by the same architect, using the same design, who designed the World Trade Center. Homeland Security--NOT!
Paperclip
7/13/2007, 09:14 AM
Radio station I like to listen to in the morning played the theme song to "Good Times"--"Well, we're movin' on up....to the East Side!" Hilarious!
That's actually The Jeffersons. :)
Radio station I like to listen to in the morning played the theme song to "Good Times"--"Well, we're movin' on up....to the East Side!" Hilarious!
That's right folks--let's move essentially all our city government into a GLASS building, located next to the tallest building in Tulsa, the BOk tower, that was designed by the same architect, using the same design, who designed the World Trade Center. Homeland Security--NOT!
:rolleyes:
I always laugh at this argument.
You KNOW Al Qaeda is sitting in some hole somewhere thinking that the way to take down the US government is to attack the city of Tulsa municipal government. If by some miracle that happened, do you think it would mean a better functioning government if the Permit office were spared because it is elsewhere? Or a Public Works facility?
And who gives a rip if it's glass? Does concrete hold up better in an attack? There are glass buildings all over this country.
BlondeSoonerGirl
7/13/2007, 09:18 AM
That little piece of denim is going deep in your crack, isn't it?
i bet mikeelikee is glad he posted. :D
JohnnyMack
7/13/2007, 09:35 AM
I've always said that this deal came with a ginormous "IF", but "IF" the city can lease the space and sell/redevelop the existing area City Hall sits on and turn it into something like a restaurant/retail area so people visiting the arena could have somewhere to eat before an event, then this could be good. If they can't rent the space and end up sitting with their collective thumbs up their collective asses and don't do anything with the space, then yeah, I'm with Tuba.
I've always said that this deal came with a ginormous "IF", but "IF" the city can lease the space and sell/redevelop the existing area City Hall sits on and turn it into something like a restaurant/retail area so people visiting the arena could have somewhere to eat before an event, then this could be good. If they can't rent the space and end up sitting with their collective thumbs up their collective asses and don't do anything with the space, then yeah, I'm with Tuba.
I think most folks were concerned about that part of the deal.....this Master Lease agreement supposedly significantly reduces the risk to the City/taxpayers in that he/they will guarantee the lease money they need and any lease revenue they can get over and above that amount will be a profit for them. Sounds good if it works.
JohnnyMack
7/13/2007, 10:00 AM
If you look on the map, if we could just get the Page Belcher building moved there would be a nice little strip available for development that would be right against the arena.
I think I need to see if I can get me one of them cushy city gubermint jobs, 'cause I *heart* One Tech...
And who gives a rip if it's glass? Does concrete hold up better in an attack? There are glass buildings all over this country.
I'm not worried about terrarists; I'm worried about windstorms. ;)
JohnnyMack
7/13/2007, 10:06 AM
I'm not worried about terrarists; I'm worried shoddy engineering. ;)
Fixed.
NormanPride
7/13/2007, 10:16 AM
I think I need to see if I can get me one of them cushy city gubermint jobs, 'cause I *heart* One Tech...
Needing an umbrella to block out the afternoon sun FTL.
The afternoon sun isn't a problem; most of the other big downtown buildings block a lot of it. It's the morning sun that kills you, 'cause there's nothing to the east to stop it from shining right into your eyes. The glass is tinted, but it's not THAT tinted. :D
Paperclip
7/13/2007, 10:29 AM
I figured it was in complete shade, what with all the hills and trees.
JohnnyMack
7/13/2007, 10:33 AM
I figured it was in complete shade, what with all the hills and trees.
They pretty much do. Here's a shot from downtown Tulsa looking west:
http://www.harrys-stuff.com/mountain-trekking-holiday-italy/ma-images/courmayeur.jpg
NormanPride
7/13/2007, 10:35 AM
The afternoon sun isn't a problem; most of the other big downtown buildings block a lot of it. It's the morning sun that kills you, 'cause there's nothing to the east to stop it from shining right into your eyes. The glass is tinted, but it's not THAT tinted. :D
Trust me, I work here. The BOk tower only gets some of the building.
1stTimeCaller
7/13/2007, 10:35 AM
where are the trees?
Trust me, I work here. The BOk tower only gets some of the building.
You must be in the southwest corner of one of the higher floors. When I was doing WilTel's PC deployment project, we were working out of the 7th floor. By afternoon, we were pretty much in shadows.
NormanPride
7/13/2007, 11:04 AM
Heh. We're actually on the 7th. It's not too bad, but it also varies a lot on the season. Right now in the summer, the sun is high in the sky. In the winter though, it's almost always blocked by the BOk tower.
Heh. We're actually on the 7th. It's not too bad, but it also varies a lot on the season. Right now in the summer, the sun is high in the sky. In the winter though, it's almost always blocked by the BOk tower.
Ah, so they finally got a tenant for that floor? Good on them.
We were convinced they'd never be able to lease it after we got through with it. :D
goingoneight
7/13/2007, 01:42 PM
there's $75 million dollars used wisely. :rolleyes:
FIFM. :O
there's $75 million tax dollars used wisely. :rolleyes:
Whether it works out or not remains to be seen, but it isn't supposed to be any tax payer dollars. As I understand it, the revenue bonds will be repaid with the money that now won't have to be used for maintenance on old City Hall, revenue from leasing the unused space at OTC, from savings realized by consolidating offices into a more efficient building and the sale of city properties left from the consolidation.
Or is that what you meant? ;)
NormanPride
7/13/2007, 02:12 PM
Ah, so they finally got a tenant for that floor? Good on them.
We were convinced they'd never be able to lease it after we got through with it. :D
Well, we did get a great deal on account of having to work with the dead hooker smell all the time. :mad:
Whether it works out or not remains to be seen, but it isn't supposed to be any tax payer dollars. As I understand it, the revenue bonds will be repaid with the money that now won't have to be used for maintenance on old City Hall, revenue from leasing the unused space at OTC, from savings realized by consolidating offices into a more efficient building and the sale of city properties left from the consolidation.
Or is that what you meant? ;)
Shhhhhh, logic and facts will only make him sleepy and cranky.
And NP, don't look at me. They were still fresh when we left; it's not our fault property maintainence let 'em keep.
Okla-homey
7/13/2007, 03:01 PM
Go on....
It's a stupid move because one of Tulsa'a hallmarks is its history and grand old "Oil Capitol" art deco architecture downtown. If city hall had to move, it makes more sense to move to space available in one of our "grand old dame" buildings...not some modern edifice.
But that's just my opinion.
Bottomline: I bet somebody is getting grea$ed on the backside of this. Like grandpaw used to say, "follow the money."
Bottomline: I bet somebody is getting grea$ed on the backside
Most likely, it's Howzit. But I don't see what that has to do with anything.
JohnnyMack
7/13/2007, 03:11 PM
It's a stupid move because one of Tulsa'a hallmarks is its history and grand old "Oil Capitol" art deco architecture downtown. If city hall had to move, it makes more sense to move to space available in one of our "grand old dame" buildings...not some modern edifice.
But that's just my opinion.
Bottomline: I bet somebody is getting grea$ed on the backside of this. Like grandpaw used to say, "follow the money."
Which building in that style would you think has enough room to house City Hall? The Mayo? Maybe?
It's a stupid move because one of Tulsa'a hallmarks is its history and grand old "Oil Capitol" art deco architecture downtown. If city hall had to move, it makes more sense to move to space available in one of our "grand old dame" buildings...not some modern edifice.
But that's just my opinion.
Bottomline: I bet somebody is getting grea$ed on the backside of this. Like grandpaw used to say, "follow the money."
I agree that we need to always keep and honor our "Oil Capitol" past, and I love our art deco masterpieces as much as the next straight non-architecture student...but after a certain point, you have to present a more modern face. Plus, the cost of gutting one of our "grand old buildings" and installing the doodads and whatsists needed to run a city in the electronic age would far outweigh any warm fuzzies we'd feel from having the city run from the Mayo or any other location. ;)
Also, the current City Hall looks like ***......Art Deco or not.
Yeah, that's not Art Deco so much as it's just crappy.
Plus, not to sound like Tuba or anything, but I think moving City Hall away from the YMCA is a good thing. :D
StoopTroup
7/13/2007, 03:44 PM
The old city hall would make a great hotel and casino IMO. ;)
JohnnyMack
7/13/2007, 03:47 PM
http://www.americanairlinescenter.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/page/PageID/259
Something similar is what I had in mind.
You know, if they hurry, they can have the new Drillers Stadium ready in time for Opening Day 2008. ;)
You know, if they hurry, they can have the new Drillers Stadium ready in time for Opening Day 2008. ;)
They better put it on the river. It would be exactly like AT&T Ballpark in San Francisco.
Exactly like it.
StoopTroup
7/13/2007, 03:54 PM
I went downtown the other night and saw the new arena construction.
It sure looks like it will be squeezing 17,000 in there to me.
Kind of like a bigger version of the Reynold's Center...
hurricane'bone
7/13/2007, 03:54 PM
While I'd like to see a new Drillers Stadium on the West Side of the River, I think a more likely downtown destination would be the site of the Hartford Building at the end of Blue Dome.
hurricane'bone
7/13/2007, 03:55 PM
I went downtown the other night and saw the new arena construction.
It sure looks like it will be squeezing 17,000 in there to me.
Kind of like a bigger version of the Reynold's Center...
Ummm....no.
Looks pretty big to me...
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1035/723649255_2784ad8b4b.jpg (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1035/723649255_2784ad8b4b.jpg?v=0)
JohnnyMack
7/13/2007, 04:01 PM
While I'd like to see a new Drillers Stadium on the West Side of the River, I think a more likely downtown destination would be the site of the Hartford Building at the end of Blue Dome.
http://www.globaldevelopmentpartners.com/EastEnd.html
Okla-homey
7/13/2007, 04:01 PM
Which building in that style would you think has enough room to house City Hall? The Mayo? Maybe?
I submit there are extant buildings on Boston that might work. And what about that big honking Sunoco building over by Boston Ave. Methodist? It's not art deco but its high 1950's style and Tulsa still ruled back then.
My point is this. You guys know I went to college in Charleston SC. That place is what it is because in the 50's and 60's they made a conscious decision to keep the stuff built a hundred years earlier at all costs. The result? Today's charming tourist and cultural mecca. Believe me, it was a tough fight to get a zoning ordinance thru in the 1960's that nothing could be built taller than the tallest church steeple in the penisular city. It paid off big time over the long run.
Apply the same logic to Tulsa. We need to save the stuff built nearly a hundred years ago and avoid crapping up the skyline anymore with new monstrosities. Lord knows, those three shoeboxes standing on end at ORU are bad enough. Frankly, I wouldn't have approved the BOk building as it was designed. Look what they did at the Mid-Continent building in comparison. Nearly as tall, but they kept with the flippin' theme.
That's what I'm talking about.
StoopTroup
7/13/2007, 04:07 PM
Looks pretty big to me...
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1035/723649255_2784ad8b4b.jpg (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1035/723649255_2784ad8b4b.jpg?v=0)
I've seen plenty of pics...
I'm just saying that when I actually drove past it...it seemed kind of small to me...
The Old Mavericks / Stars Arena held 17,000 and it just seems larger to me...
Just sayin...
hurricane'bone
7/13/2007, 04:08 PM
I went downtown the other night and saw the new arena construction.
It sure looks like it will be squeezing 17,000 in there to me.
Kind of like a bigger version of the Reynold's Center...
RenCen - 138,000 SqFt. (8,355 Seats)
BOK Center - 550,000 Sq.Ft. (18,000 Seats)
I've seen plenty of pics...
I'm just saying that when I actually drove past it...it seemed kind of small to me...
The Old Mavericks / Stars Arena held 17,000 and it just seems larger to me...
Just sayin...
Maybe it was cold.
RenCen - 138,000 SqFt. (8,355 Seats)
BOK Center - 550,000 Sq.Ft. (18,000 Seats)
He's seen plenty of numbers.....
:D
hurricane'bone
7/13/2007, 04:09 PM
http://www.globaldevelopmentpartners.com/EastEnd.html
Except that the Ballpark function of the East End is dead.
GDP talked about it in either the World or UTW.
He's seen plenty of numbers.....
:D
But when he drove by the numbers, they just looked small. He's just sayin'.
StoopTroup
7/13/2007, 04:20 PM
Maybe it was cold.
LMAO...maybe....
StoopTroup
7/13/2007, 04:29 PM
The American Airlines Center in Dallas....
Holds 19,000 for Basketball, 18,000 for Hockey....
815,000 square feet I believe...
hurricane'bone
7/13/2007, 04:33 PM
The American Airlines Center in Dallas....
Holds 19,000 for Basketball, 18,000 for Hockey....
815,000 square feet I believe...
Yes, and...are you wanting to compare the BOK to Reunion or the AAC?
Why not? Apples and oranges are both delicious!
Tulsa_Fireman
7/13/2007, 04:39 PM
Apply the same logic to Tulsa. We need to save the stuff built nearly a hundred years ago and avoid crapping up the skyline anymore with new monstrosities. Lord knows, those three shoeboxes standing on end at ORU are bad enough. Frankly, I wouldn't have approved the BOk building as it was designed. Look what they did at the Mid-Continent building in comparison. Nearly as tall, but they kept with the flippin' theme.
Sh*ttin' truth.
Tulsa_Fireman
7/13/2007, 04:40 PM
In addendum...
Show me the One Tech building in 30 years.
Might as well call it The Belvedere.
But if old stuff is the very bestest, shouldn't we embrace the fact that one day One Tech will be old?
hurricane'bone
7/13/2007, 04:47 PM
But if old stuff is the very bestest, shouldn't we embrace the fact that one day One Tech will be old?
No, obviously they should have moved back into Old City Hall at 4th and Cincinnati
Mixer!
7/13/2007, 04:52 PM
America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again.
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/images/fieldofdreamsmann.JPG
Apply the same logic to Tulsa. We need to save the stuff built nearly a hundred years ago and avoid crapping up the skyline anymore with new monstrosities. Lord knows, those three shoeboxes standing on end at ORU are bad enough. Frankly, I wouldn't have approved the BOk building as it was designed. Look what they did at the Mid-Continent building in comparison. Nearly as tall, but they kept with the flippin' theme.
Sh*ttin' truth.
Pssst....One Tech was going to be there whether the City bought it or not. The way I look at it, if old City Hall goes, it will be one less monstrosity for people to have to see.
But...it's OLD! Old buildings are better because they're OLD!!! :D
But...it's OLD! Old buildings are better because they're OLD!!! :D
Sooo old, sooo beautiful..... ;)
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t174/9lalo9/Civic%20Center/IM000976.jpg
StoopTroup
7/13/2007, 05:35 PM
Yes, and...are you wanting to compare the BOK to Reunion or the AAC?
Not really...
TU's Reynolds Center is a poor design IMO.
All I'm saying about the BOK is that my first impression is it's going to be pretty tight as far as seating and the ability to move around in a crowd.
I hate paying big bucks to go to an event just to be uncomfortable or elbow to elbow with people at intermissions or concessions.
Why put up another POS like Reynold Center or even the Convention Center.
The Mabee Center at ORU has become an old building...yet is still a better facility than the Reynolds or Convention Center.
I do think we needed the BOK...
It's just my first impression is skeptical now after actually seeing it from the ground level.
I hope I'm wrong...
Um, the RenCen is win. I'm a large fellow, and I have little to no difficulty getting around inside there.
And the Maybee is a gold lamé dump. it should be razed to the ground, along with the rest of that godforsaken eyesore of a "campus".
StoopTroup
7/13/2007, 07:37 PM
Agreed the Mabee has seen it's day.
Going to events at the Mabee reminds me of shopping at Southland, Southroads, and Eastland malls in their final days. I just walk around wondering, "This place is still open?" :D
Every time I drive by ORU, I flip it off. And not because I hate God or shyster televangelists (although, for the record, I DO hate shyster televangelists) but rather because I hate bad architecture.
For the Tulsa lovers......some very nice pics here, old a new-er.
http://www.kwillowgallery.com/
Okla-homey
7/13/2007, 08:17 PM
But if old stuff is the very bestest, shouldn't we embrace the fact that one day One Tech will be old?
My Aunt Margaret is old but ain't nobody gonna pay to see her or spend the night in her guest room. People will pay money to hang with classic, cool, historic stuff. Tulsa still has more of that than any other city in Oklahoma. We oughtta celebrate it and declare a moratorium on architectural monstrosities.
The city oughtta lead the charge by siting the seat of municipal government in a historic property.
Just saying.
For the Tulsa lovers......some very nice pics here, old a new-er.
http://www.kwillowgallery.com/
http://www.kwillowgallery.com/Mayo-web.jpg
Okla-homey
7/13/2007, 08:18 PM
No, obviously they should have moved back into Old City Hall at 4th and Cincinnati
fuggin' A bubba!
JohnnyMack
7/13/2007, 09:22 PM
Going to events at the Mabee reminds me of shopping at Southland, Southroads, and Eastland malls in their final days. I just walk around wondering, "This place is still open?" :D
Don't talk **** about Southroads or Southland. I'll smack you right out of your vans.
hurricane'bone
7/13/2007, 11:21 PM
For the Tulsa lovers......some very nice pics here, old a new-er.
http://www.kwillowgallery.com/
http://www.kwillowgallery.com/Sophian-Plaza-web.jpg
One of my favorite buildings in all of Tulsa
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