SI.com--OU punished, what about USC?

[sooner45]

Maybe I've missed it but I cant find when the USUC penalties will be announced?? Anyone have an idea? Hopefuly they will take away their 04' title!! SOB's!!!

[Mac94]

press conference tenatively scheduled for the day after never. ;)

[sooner45]

press conference tenatively scheduled for the day after never. ;)


haha, geez...cant wait!! :pop:

[sendbaht]

I'm waiting also.......

[Snrfn4ever08]

Yea, I'm thinking take away the 04 title, take away their fake 03 title and give all credit to the team that won it by the rules anyway, take reggie's heisman....man, that sure is a lot of wins to vacate.

[The_Red_Patriot]

Never happen. Lest just drop it.

[OKCIS]

Red patriot is right its not gonna happen. With the OU ruling the NCAA gave themselves an out with USC by saying they dont regulate bowl games. therefore they cant take USC's title from them when the time comes so dont expect to ever see that happen.

[sooner518]

http://www.david-m.org/stuff/2/HellFreezesOver.jpg

[Snrfn4ever08]

Red patriot is right its not gonna happen. With the OU ruling the NCAA gave themselves an out with USC by saying they dont regulate bowl games. therefore they cant take USC's title from them when the time comes so dont expect to ever see that happen.
They didn't give themselves any kind pf out. If they don't regulate bowl games, how exactly did they manage to take away the holiday bowl victory? I don't think it will happen either, but by no means did the NCAA give themselves an out

[Snrfn4ever08]

http://www.david-m.org/stuff/2/HellFreezesOver.jpg
Nice :D

[fwsooner22]

Who the heck cares? Would I like to see them get theirs? Sure.

We cheated. We got caught. We now have to suffer the consequences.

I can no longer look the other way and try to find someone else to suffer with us.

It has begin and end in the athletic office. It's not happening now!

[OKCIS]

They didn't give themselves any kind pf out. If they don't regulate bowl games, how exactly did they manage to take away the holiday bowl victory? I don't think it will happen either, but by no means did the NCAA give themselves an out


Right here


Paul Dee, the athletic director at Miami and the interim chairman of the NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions, said Oklahoma will be allowed to keep the money it received for playing in the 2005 Holiday Bowl, because the NCAA does not regulate bowl games.

Sure they are saying money but the key sentence i placed in bold for you. That is their out they cant take the title because they do not regulate bowl games.

[GrapevineSooner]

Maybe I've missed it but I cant find when the USUC penalties will be announced?? Anyone have an idea? Hopefuly they will take away their 04' title!! SOB's!!!

Read this first (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96031)

[Snrfn4ever08]

Right here



Sure they are saying money but the key sentence i placed in bold for you. That is their out they cant take the title because they do not regulate bowl games.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize that detail at first, but the NCAA still has a gray area regarding the definition of "regulation" if they can still tell us that game's being wiped from the regard and no further public references can be made. In my mind, that's regulation of a bowl game, no matter what the NCAA says

[winnard]

Right here



Sure they are saying money but the key sentence i placed in bold for you. That is their out they cant take the title because they do not regulate bowl games.


Then, it should be okay to reward the players $$ while they are at the bowl game, and the NCAA can't do jack.



winnard

[XFollower]

The NCAA has scheduled it for the same year that OsU wins the national title.

[Snrfn4ever08]

The NCAA has scheduled it for the same year that OsU wins the national title.
lol, nice :D

[soonerspudman]

Maybe I've missed it but I cant find when the USUC penalties will be announced?? Anyone have an idea? Hopefuly they will take away their 04' title!! SOB's!!!

According to ESPN, this whole USC thingy is just, like really hard. ESPN reports that, golly gee, the NCAA and USC sure do want what's right, but hey man, people aren't cooperating and the whole thing is soooo confusing. The Disney sports channel said, after emerging from a seedy Orlando motel room with NCAA officials (and the major TV networks and the NCAA game licensors and Nike and a man in dark sunglesses resembling Bill Clinton), that Pete Carroll and USC officials "would really like to help investigate any transgressions if they really happened but since no one will talk they guessed maybe nothing really did happen. Quoted one NCAA official "I ask you, if an NCAA infraction occurs and nobody talks about it, did it really happen? We don't think so." Plus, they mentioned, the FBI is involved and "well that really settles that, what can you do with all those fed people involved, I mean, they have guns and everything. ESPN stated they will continue to monitor this situation closely until such time the public loses interest or just forgets.

[sooner45]

Read this first (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96031)



This still didnt answer my question though, thank you for playing. Bob, tell him what he's won......... :rolleyes:

[GrapevineSooner]

For the 1,342,276,382nd time...

Reggie Bush and his family are the subject of an ongoing Federal investigation. Until that investigation wraps up or the Feds release some of their findings to the NCAA, there's nothing the NCAA can do.

If it eases your mind, I'm sure the NCAA will investigate this matter thoroughly since the allegations are more serious than falsifying timecards at local dealership.

[sooner45]

For the 1,342,276,382nd time...

Reggie Bush and his family are the subject of an ongoing Federal investigation. Until that investigation wraps up or the Feds release some of their findings to the NCAA, there's nothing the NCAA can do.

If it eases your mind, I'm sure the NCAA will investigate this matter thoroughly since the allegations are more serious than falsifying timecards at local dealership.

Thanks man, thats all I was looking for.

[Snrfn4ever08]

For the 1,342,276,382nd time...

Reggie Bush and his family are the subject of an ongoing Federal investigation. Until that investigation wraps up or the Feds release some of their findings to the NCAA, there's nothing the NCAA can do.

If it eases your mind, I'm sure the NCAA will investigate this matter thoroughly since the allegations are more serious than falsifying timecards at local dealership.
This is the NCAA we're talking about--no they won't

[GrapevineSooner]

Thanks man, thats all I was looking for.

No problem.


This is the NCAA we're talking about--no they won't

Well, I'll just let you live in your bubble then.

I'd like to think that if a charge is serious enough to warrant a Federal investigation that the NCAA will investigate at the earliest opportunity they have.

Call me old fashioned if you like.

[tbl]

Meanwhile, Reggie is making Subway commercials with Jared and helping New Orleans rebuild. Such a model citizen...

If something doesn't happen to USC (and considerably worse than what we received), I'm going to puke.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Please tell me what Federal crime was committed? You think racketeering? I don't see it. Some guy sees a business opportunity, pays the parents bucks and free housing in hopes that it will influence a student (that is allowed - you can pay anyone anything for a favor). He doesn't bite, signs with someone else. Parents move out of house and the guy sues him (Agent may have a beef with a supposed verbal contract...). What crime was committed? mail fraud?

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Meanwhile, Reggie is making Subway commercials with Jared and helping New Orleans rebuild. Such a model citizen...

If something doesn't happen to USC (and considerably worse than what we received), I'm going to puke.

Why I boycott Subway...

[CU Sooner]

Old Fashioned :P

[MojoRisen]

Bush's Family took over 500K in benefits, but now they settled and the guy agreed not to testify to any of it.

I don't think the NCAA will be able to do anything unless USUC admits it- which they will not.

The NCAA is like confessing to a crime without a lawyer present... Bob and OU did the right thing but- I wonder if we would not have been better off too cover it up and act like it did not happen and make Bomar and Quin quit the dealership.

Seriously - SC deserves serious probation for this- and let alone having Bush call recruits.

Oh well- Let's move on...

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I'm calling BS on this federal investigation crap. Yahoo! has already uncovered plenty of evidence and put it in the public arena. All they have to do is review that material and along with the Jarret case can determine that there was a failure to monitor.

[Scott D]

Please tell me what Federal crime was committed? You think racketeering? I don't see it. Some guy sees a business opportunity, pays the parents bucks and free housing in hopes that it will influence a student (that is allowed - you can pay anyone anything for a favor). He doesn't bite, signs with someone else. Parents move out of house and the guy sues him (Agent may have a beef with a supposed verbal contract...). What crime was committed? mail fraud?

Bush and his family have filed a suit that the wanna-be agents are/were Blackmailing them. THAT is what the federal investigation is about. It has nothing to do with the lawsuit the guy filed and got settled after Bush signed his contract.

[Scott D]

I'm calling BS on this federal investigation crap. Yahoo! has already uncovered plenty of evidence and put it in the public arena. All they have to do is review that material and along with the Jarret case can determine that there was a failure to monitor.

Go ahead and call BS on it. It doesn't change the fact that the FBI is investigating the blackmail charges that the Bush family have filed. Anything that "Yahoo!" release is "unofficial", and can't be used as actual evidence by the NCAA until the FBI lets them have it.

[Rhino]

Is USUC a new school?

[Scott D]

yeah, it's in the new Big Petty Conference with Meatchicken, Oregano, and Allbarn.

[Scott D]

Once again people, the Feds get the priority over the NCAA


SAN DIEGO A federal investigation into extortion claims by New Orleans Saints running back Reggie Bush and his family has revealed the existence of taped conversations that could confirm Bush took cash and gifts while he was playing football for the University of Southern California.

Lloyd Lake, an investor in a failed sports marketing agency which attempted to launch with Bush as its first client, is the subject of a grand jury probe into the extortion claims. The agency called New Era Sports & Entertainment was founded by Lake and San Diego businessman Michael Michaels. Lake told Yahoo! Sports in August 2006 that he contributed a portion of the cash and gifts allegedly given to Bush and his family as part of an agreement to represent the then-USC running back when he signed an NFL contract.

According to multiple sources in an ongoing Yahoo! Sports investigation, nearly $280,000 in cash, rent and gifts was allegedly given to Bush and his family. Lake and Michaels both said in August 2006 that they planned to file a lawsuit against Bush.

The U.S. District Attorney's office in San Diego has issued grand jury subpoenas to multiple witnesses in the probe since October, requiring them to appear before federal investigators. According to a copy of a subpoena obtained by Yahoo! Sports, at least one of the witnesses was asked to produce "any recordings in your possession of conversations between Lloyd Lake and Reggie Bush, Denise Griffin, or LaMar Griffin." Denise Griffin is Bush's mother. LaMar Griffin is Bush's stepfather.

If such taped conversations involving Bush become public, Bush and USC could face penalties from the NCAA and Pacific-10 Conference, which are conducting ongoing investigations into reports of extra benefits.

[Snrfn4ever08]

No problem.



Well, I'll just let you live in your bubble then.

I'd like to think that if a charge is serious enough to warrant a Federal investigation that the NCAA will investigate at the earliest opportunity they have.

Call me old fashioned if you like.
Go ahead and let me live in my little bubble, because whether you like it or not, the USC investigation has ground to a halt, and there's not a damn thing the NCAA can do about. It's the NCAA, not the FBI

[SouthCarolinaSooner]

Look every one knows USC is guilty, even the NCAA. Problem is the NCAA would have to take back a Heisman Trophy and a National Championship. This has NEVER been done before and the NCAA doesnt want to do it. Besides Pete Caroll gives Myles Brand blow-jobs and sends the NCAA offices Matt Leinhart's exes.

[Ever]

Who the heck cares? Would I like to see them get theirs? Sure.

We cheated. We got caught. We now have to suffer the consequences.

I can no longer look the other way and try to find someone else to suffer with us.

It has begin and end in the athletic office. It's not happening now!

We did not cheat. Two players knowingly broke the rules. In this case, no one was using steroids, no one was illegally wooing recruits, no one paid the refs. We merely broke a moral rule, not a substantive one.

[The_Red_Patriot]

Pretty good read. Says what alot of people are saying

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_blogs/football/ncaa/2007/07/sooners-punished-what-about-usc.html

[MamaMia]

Go ahead and call BS on it. It doesn't change the fact that the FBI is investigating the blackmail charges that the Bush family have filed. Anything that "Yahoo!" release is "unofficial", and can't be used as actual evidence by the NCAA until the FBI lets them have it. What do you mean by "unofficial?"

[Scott D]

What I mean Mama, is that Yahoo may have knowledge of these, even possession of them. I'd be pretty sure that Yahoo got them from an 'unnamed' person because making them public at this point before a Federal case moves forward could and would compromise the Government's case. The NCAA can't use anything Yahoo reports that may be information the Government has because the Government hasn't made that information public.

[OK2LA]

Maybe I've missed it but I cant find when the USUC penalties will be announced?? Anyone have an idea? Hopefuly they will take away their 04' title!! SOB's!!!

Is it me, or does this entire thread drip "Sour Grapes"?

We get pinched for NCAA violations . . .

What do we do?

Point the finger at the program that donkey stomped us in the Orange Bowl and scream: "What about them?!? What about them?!? They cheated too!!!"

Take your medicine, stfu, and move on.

[Edmond Sooner]

Pretty good read. Says what alot of people are saying

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_blogs/football/ncaa/2007/07/sooners-punished-what-about-usc.html

An SI writer springing to the defense of Oklahoma. Hell needs to monitor its thermostats.

[Newbomb Turk]

In Oklahoma’s case, the investigation was made much easier by the fact the school itself uncovered the scheme and self-reported it.

not a good example to show your kids how telling the truth works in your favor.

[MichiganSooner]

Advise all to skim the article and then read the comments. 99%+ are for OU.

[soonercody]

The comments below the article are great!

[soonercody]

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Is it just me or is it cold in here?
.

[Cam]

What I "learned" from the comments:

1) AD had a free car for 6 months.
2) There were 8 other players who were paid too much by the dealership.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[MamaMia]

Is it me, or does this entire thread drip "Sour Grapes"?

We get pinched for NCAA violations . . .

What do we do?

Point the finger at the program that donkey stomped us in the Orange Bowl and scream: "What about them?!? What about them?!? They cheated too!!!"

Take your medicine, stfu, and move on.How dare you tell people to STFU, you bossy little neg magnet!

[MiccoMacey]

Why doesn't the NCAA use a civil law suit to get the info they need?

As I understand it, they have no legal way to have universities or players, past or present, give information. That's allegedly the hold up on the Bush thing, and one being leveled against us.

So if they took us to court, couldn't they get a subpoena for the info?

Just wondering.

[101sooner]

Good question.

I'll take an uneducated stab at the answer.

How does a student athletes refusal to answer questions from the NCAA give the NCAA cause to recover a right or redress a grievance?

[MamaMia]

Even in a court of law people have the right to the fifth amendment.

[MiccoMacey]

You can sue for whatever you want to and for whatever reason you want.

I readily admit the things I know about the court system stems from my nightly watchings of Law and Order.

But I'd think if I sued someone and I needed information, I could subpoena someone to give me whatever I needed.

Say you took something from me. You called your friend and told them you took it. Your friend taped the conversation. I'd think I could subpoena your friend for the tape.

Even if taping is illegl in Oklahoma (I have no idea), you get the point. Can you subpoena people in a civil lawsuit for information?


But I could be wrong.

[MiccoMacey]

Even in a court of law people have the right to the fifth amendment.

Not in MY court it doesn't. ;)

[Frozen Sooner]

Even in a court of law people have the right to the fifth amendment.

Not in a civil matter.

[MiccoMacey]

You go, Mikeeeeee.

[Scott D]

You can sue for whatever you want to and for whatever reason you want.

I readily admit the things I know about the court system stems from my nightly watchings of Law and Order.

But I'd think if I sued someone and I needed information, I could subpoena someone to give me whatever I needed.

Say you took something from me. You called your friend and told them you took it. Your friend taped the conversation. I'd think I could subpoena your friend for the tape.

Even if taping is illegl in Oklahoma (I have no idea), you get the point. Can you subpoena people in a civil lawsuit for information?


But I could be wrong.

good luck subpoenaing the US Attorney General's Office.

fwiw, the civil case was settled after Bush became a pro...this is a federal investigation into blackmail charges.

[MiccoMacey]

I was referring to when the Bush thing is resolved by the Feds.

Or anytime they want to investigate a university or player, not under federal scrutiny.

[Scott D]

Once the Feds are done, it's pretty much a nail in the coffin in the NCAA getting the damning evidence. USC trying to pull tight ranks and be uncooperative is only going to hurt them in the end.

btw, they were last on probation from August 23rd of 2001 through August 23rd of 2003 for Unethical conduct; academic fraud; provision of false and misleading information; violation of academic eligibility requirements; extra benefits and lack of monitoring.

Some tigers never change their stripes.

[101sooner]

If Bush is compelled to testify by the Feds, then the NCAA could use that testimony as evidence in a compliance hearing.

If the Fed's don't compell him to testify under oath, then the NCAA is powerless to force him to talk. Had they investigated this situation while he was a student athlete, then the NCAA could have said speak up or become ineligible.

[SanDiegoSoonerGal]

Is it me, or does this entire thread drip "Sour Grapes"?

We get pinched for NCAA violations . . .

What do we do?

Point the finger at the program that donkey stomped us in the Orange Bowl and scream: "What about them?!? What about them?!? They cheated too!!!"

Take your medicine, stfu, and move on.

It's you.

OU should take its medicine, I agree. But it's very difficult to take medicine when you're watching someone else who did something much worse seemingly skate away scot-free.

(No alliteration intended.)

It's not sour grapes, it's a desire for equal justice under the "law."

[goingoneight]

The NCAA has scheduled it for the same year that OsU wins the national title.
That means SUC can continue to get away with murder. :D

[NCAAISAJOKE]

I have a problem with OU being labeled cheaters and Bob Stoops' name getting dragged through the dirt! I have heard this from some of our fans and almost all the media. OU and Bob Stoops had nothing to do with these 2 idiots taking money. Cheating is what I saw in Eugene Oregon. By saying that OU cheated, you are saying that Bob Stoops and OU knew this was going on. I believe Stoops has way more class and integrity to let that go on. Put the blame where it goes and that is with Bomar and Quinn!

[sooner518]

ok, so the Reggie Bush thing is going nowhere for the time being because the Feds are involved.

what about the Dwayne Jarrett thing?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2544968


His total benefit while he lived in the apartment was calculated to be $18,001.

[Theskipster]

ok, so the Reggie Bush thing is going nowhere for the time being because the Feds are involved.

what about the Dwayne Jarrett thing?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2544968

Dwayne Jarrett's case was handled lightly but fairly given the situation. Honest mistakes shouldn't be heavily punished.

USC should be killed for both of the intentional Reggie Bush violations, but going after Jarrett you are just looking for anything to hit USC with. You sound like an TAMU fan.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

What I mean Mama, is that Yahoo may have knowledge of these, even possession of them. I'd be pretty sure that Yahoo got them from an 'unnamed' person because making them public at this point before a Federal case moves forward could and would compromise the Government's case. The NCAA can't use anything Yahoo reports that may be information the Government has because the Government hasn't made that information public.

The NCAA can do whatever it wants because it's a private organization. If I join a country club and they don't like my shoes, they can kick me out just because. I still believe there is enough information in the public sector to make some sort of determination.

[sooner518]

Dwayne Jarrett's case was handled lightly but fairly given the situation. Honest mistakes shouldn't be heavily punished.

USC should be killed for both of the intentional Reggie Bush violations, but going after Jarrett you are just looking for anything to hit USC with. You sound like an TAMU fan.
im just confused with it. he took improper benefits. I dont see how it would be considered an "honest mistake". you think Leinart's father or Jarrett thought it was actually OK to do that? come on now.

wasnt the USC athletic department "failing to monitor" his living situation? and what were the punishments? as far as i can tell, he repaid the money and thats it...

[Scott D]

The NCAA can do whatever it wants because it's a private organization. If I join a country club and they don't like my shoes, they can kick me out just because. I still believe there is enough information in the public sector to make some sort of determination.

The tapes aren't in the public sector, just knowledge of the tapes existence. You people want this to be fire and brimstone with a smoking gun. The NCAA can't get this smoking gun that you all want until the Feds give it to them.

Oh and ask the Lawyer who thought it'd be grand to leak info from the Balco Grand Jury hearings how he feels about crossing a federal investigation....I'm sure you can get an answer from him in 2 and a half years when his sentence ends.

[rainiersooner]

ok, so the Reggie Bush thing is going nowhere for the time being because the Feds are involved.

what about the Dwayne Jarrett thing?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2544968

Without getting into comparisons between OU and SUC (which is difficult because as I've said elsewhere, the NCAA doesn't provide objective standards and therefore we're left to subjectively argue the merits of punishments!!! Which sucks.) I think even this being a violation is ridiculous. What if Leinart's dad was able to afford a $2,800 a month apartment but told Leinart he needed to rent out one of his rooms to make up the deficit? What if Jarrett cooked up a mean steak and fries, or did the cleaning? The NCAA sucks, that's it, end of story.

Now with Bush - USC should go down. That is not subjective.

[crimson&cream]

[QUOTE=.

We cheated. We got caught. We now have to suffer the consequences.



NO Bomar & Quinn cheated there's no one at OU now that is guilty of any wrong doing.:pop:

[fwsooner22]

We did not cheat. Two players knowingly broke the rules. In this case, no one was using steroids, no one was illegally wooing recruits, no one paid the refs. We merely broke a moral rule, not a substantive one.


We used ineligible players.........that's called cheating:twinkies: :twinkies: :twinkies:

[TexasLidig8r]

You can sue for whatever you want to and for whatever reason you want.

I readily admit the things I know about the court system stems from my nightly watchings of Law and Order.

But I'd think if I sued someone and I needed information, I could subpoena someone to give me whatever I needed.

Say you took something from me. You called your friend and told them you took it. Your friend taped the conversation. I'd think I could subpoena your friend for the tape.

Even if taping is illegl in Oklahoma (I have no idea), you get the point. Can you subpoena people in a civil lawsuit for information?


But I could be wrong.

You must have a case or controversy in order to file a lawsuit.. that is, you must be aggrieved (i.e., damaged) or have an interest under a written contract or be affected by statute with litigation imminent, to institute litigation.

In this case, there is no "case" or "controversy" between the NCAA and OU. The NCAA is a governing body and OU agreed to abide by the rules and regulations passed by that body. Therefore, the NCAA cannot resort to the courts and have use of the many discovery techniques in order to aid in its investigation.

Now, let's suppose OU, after it loses its appeal, decides to institute litigation against the NCAA alleging that its investigation and subsequent latest probation violated OU's due process rights. THEN, with a pending lawsuit, NCAA can subpoena witnesses to testify, subpoena documents, take depositions, obtain sworn answers to written questions and petition the Court that the time records and other documents which mysteriously disappeared and were not turned over, were destroyed in bad faith and contain damning evidence and that the parties knew or should have anticipated litigation and as such, the court can deem that the documents would have been contrary to OU's position.. it's called, "spoliation of evidence." Further, do you REALLY want McRae and student athletes who worked at the dealership, put under oath and be forced to testify????

[TexasSooner01]

I wouldnt be suprised that when the Federal investigation is over that the tapes are damaged and can not be played or lost so the NCAA dont ever see them.

[stoopified]

Not in MY court it doesn't. ;)
Or a Grand Jury.

[Big Red Ron]

Old Fashioned :PI boycott them because Brad Henry used their jingle for his campaign that beat Largent for Gov.

[Big Red Ron]

[quote=]

We cheated. We got caught. We now have to suffer the consequences.



NO Bomar & Quinn cheated there's no one at OU now that is guilty of any wrong doing.:pop:True, we DID NOT CHEAT. Those two ****** bags did.

[Big Red Ron]

We used ineligible players.........that's called cheating:twinkies: :twinkies: :twinkies:Lame, intent is what, 3/4 of the law?


























:twinkies:

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Anyone that brings up Jarrett is silly. I mean the media is bugging my kid so I buy him an apartment in a gated community so he can have some peace and quiet and finish up school, and he wants his friend to live with him..I don't see a problem with that really. It is a stupid real in some sense and Jarrett had to pay it back anyway....

[fwsooner22]

[quote=crimson&cream]True, we DID NOT CHEAT. Those two ****** bags did.

Okay, Big Red Ron, so we disagree......that's probably not enough reason for you to bring out the big bad neg spek......Geez............