The legal drinking age should be 18.

[OU Adonis]

The only reason the states have a drinking age of 21 is because the federal government will withhold highway money if a state has it lowered.

Anyone else think this is BS?

[Vaevictis]

If you're old enough to join the military, you're old enough to do anything. IMO.

[Okla-homey]

I agree. Let 18 y/o's drink, or alternatively, repeal the flippin' 26th Amendment.

Perhaps I should have said, let 18 y/o's drink legally, because Lord knows, they are drinking.

[OU Adonis]

If you're old enough to join the military, you're old enough to do anything. IMO.

Exactly. I also think it would actually lower drinking with teens if they learned to do it in a controlled environment with their parents. Right now the only legal way they can drink is well after they are gone from their parents presence.

[SicEmBaylor]

I'm in full agreement. The 21 drinking age doesn't **** me off (now since I'm over 21) so much as the Feds coercing the states.

Anywhoo, if you want to blame anyone then blame MADD. Discouraging drinking and driving is a great thing, but they've gone well overboard through the years.

[SicEmBaylor]

Exactly. I also think it would actually lower drinking with teens if they learned to do it in a controlled environment with their parents. Right now the only legal way they can drink is well after they are gone from their parents presence.
I've heard this rumor for a long time that supposedly it is for a minor to drink in the state of Texas at a restaurant so long as they are accompanied by their parents. I never thought that was true though and never tried testing the rumor either.

[King Crimson]

agree with Adonis and Vaevictus.

Colorado used to have 3.2 for sale to 18 year olds. but, the highway money thing shut that down in the late 80's.

[Vaevictis]

In this specific case, it just seems silly to me. What are you gonna do with a beer that's worse than what you can do with an automatic rifle?

[yermom]

the old clique should be chiming in anytime now...

unless you are a voting demographic you don't mean crap. hell, "age discrimination" only applies to people over 40

what kind of BS is that?

[Harry Beanbag]

In this specific case, it just seems silly to me. What are you gonna do with a beer that's worse than what you can do with an automatic rifle?


Presumably, the automatic rifles only come out when fighting enemies of the United States. A teenager driving drunk can kill a few American citizens (or illegals). Soldiers are trained how to safely operate weaponry to kill the enemy before the enemy kills him or his comrades. There is no training program for the safe use of alcohol.

You had the right answer at first, but your reasoning to back it up is off base. If you can legally fight and die for this country you should be able to enjoy a freaking beer while living in it.

[yermom]

In this specific case, it just seems silly to me. What are you gonna do with a beer that's worse than what you can do with an automatic rifle?

or a car...

[yermom]

Presumably, the automatic rifles only come out when fighting enemies of the United States. A teenager driving drunk can kill a few American citizens (or illegals). Soldiers are trained how to safely operate weaponry to kill the enemy before the enemy kills him or his comrades. There is no training program for the safe use of alcohol.

You had the right answer at first, but your reasoning to back it up is off base. If you can legally fight and die for this country you should be able to enjoy a freaking beer while living in it.

at 18 you can go buy an automatic rifle at a retail store

[SicEmBaylor]

the old clique should be chiming in anytime now...

unless you are a voting demographic you don't mean crap. hell, "age discrimination" only applies to people over 40

what kind of BS is that?

The biggest load of BS is that there is such a thing as age discrimination at all. If a non-governmental employer wants to only hire old farts and deny an applicant based on either his youth or old age then that's their problem to deal with.

Nonetheless, you are totally right about the 18-21 voting demographic. They do not vote. They attend the concerts, wear the stupid *** t-shirts, and go through the motions of being involved but they never show up to the polling place on election day in numbers of significance that would count. I think that's a good thing though, the fewer people who vote (especially youth) the better.

[Harry Beanbag]

at 18 you can go buy an automatic rifle at a retail store

You can? Crap I've been missing out. ;) Vae was talking about the military though.

[47straight]

I used to be completely of this opinion until I worked with high school youth. Yes, if you are in the service and on call to go fight in a war you should be able to drink, but the reality anymore is that the army won't take you until you graduate high school.

Most kids turn 18 during their senior year of high school. I've known tons of high school seniors now, and it would be a bad idea to let them legally drunk. Yes, I am still quite young enough to remember my own senior year of high school. After high school, you're on your own to do well in college or the workforce. You're making tons of life decisions on your own. You can be trusted with deciding about drinking.

So the punchline for me is that the drinking age should be 19. Sure, there might be some private who is 18. Let him have an exception with an active duty military ID. Sure, it might seem artificial to you to distinguish between college freshman and high school seniors. I disagree. Yeah, there will be some high school seniors who are 19 and some college freshman who are 18. But overall it makes the most sense.

[SoonerGirl06]

I'm in full agreement. The 21 drinking age doesn't **** me off (now since I'm over 21) so much as the Feds coercing the states.

Anywhoo, if you want to blame anyone then blame MADD. Discouraging drinking and driving is a great thing, but they've gone well overboard through the years.

I'm not discounting what you're saying, but tell me why you think MADD has gone overboard through the years.


I completely agree with the whole "if you're old enough to join the military or vote, you're old enough to drink" scenario.

Damn politicians... they run this country like a bunch of drunkin' monkeys at times....

[Vaevictis]

If you can legally fight and die for this country you should be able to enjoy a freaking beer while living in it.

That's the reason why I think you're old enough to do anything when you're old enough to join up.

But specifically addressing alcohol, I think it's silly that you can be trusted with a rifle but not a beer.


Presumably, the automatic rifles only come out when fighting enemies of the United States. A teenager driving drunk can kill a few American citizens (or illegals). Soldiers are trained how to safely operate weaponry to kill the enemy before the enemy kills him or his comrades. There is no training program for the safe use of alcohol.

Heh. A young soldier with a rifle can kill a few American citizens too -- just ask the folks at Kent State.

If you can trust someone of that age to make the kind of decisions a soldier has to make under the conditions a soldier makes them... you can trust someone of that age with a beer.

And if training is the issue, ****, offer training.

[Harry Beanbag]

Damn politicians... they run this country like a bunch of drunkin' monkeys at times....


http://jeremylott.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/dontdoit.jpg

[SoonerGirl06]

http://jeremylott.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/dontdoit.jpg


EXACTLY!!!!!!!

[King Crimson]

the old clique should be chiming in anytime now...

unless you are a voting demographic you don't mean crap. hell, "age discrimination" only applies to people over 40

what kind of BS is that?


it's actually worse than that, the biggest moralizers on the planet are the Baby Boomers.

[SicEmBaylor]

I'm not discounting what you're saying, but tell me why you think MADD has gone overboard through the years.


I completely agree with the whole "if you're old enough to join the military or vote, you're old enough to drink" scenario.

Damn politicians... they run this country like a bunch of drunkin' monkeys at times....

MADD started with the acceptable intention of keeping drunk drivers off the roads by advocating stricter penalties for driving under the influence. I absolutely believe that someone caught drunk driving should be be penalized to the harshest extent possible.

But....then they started going a little overboard. Now, they've become a quasi-prohibitionist organization that advocates lowering the blood alcohol limit to such an extent that it'd be hard to even have a drink with your dinner and then go home. They pushed the open container laws, and that bothers me because I'm not a fan of laws that prosecute you for something you haven't done yet. For example, there's absolutely no harm in someone riding in the back or passenger's seat having an alcoholic beverage. Yet, if they are caught then they're treated as if they were driving.

They've also started applying the screws to businesses that sell alcoholic products and holding them personally responsible for alcohol related deaths. In other words, in MADD's opinion if I walked into my local liquor store and bought a big case of Zima and then drove drunk around town ultimately killing someone then that liquor store is liable. And currently they're wanting a breathalysers in every damned car made. EVERY car that won't turn on unless you breathe into the damned thing.

Look, I'm sympathetic to anyone who has lost a loved one to drunk driving. If not dead, the person driving drunk should absolutely be prosecuted as if it were an intentional homicide. But, I don't like all of these preventative laws that MADD advocates that do nothing but prosecute individuals before a true crime is ever even committed. I think what happens is that women do not think logically, they think emotionally. They're upset by something that is clearly an emotional issue and start looking for something to do in order to ease their own emotional suffering.

And of course, there's the fact that they've turned into a very powerful lobby and a lobby has to have something to lobby for or else there's no reason for it to exist.

[King Crimson]

do they sell Zima at liquor stores, i just figgered it was at Victoria's Secret and the 50$ haircut "salons". ;)

[SicEmBaylor]

do they sell Zima at liquor stores, i just figgered it was at Victoria's Secret and the 50$ haircut "salons". ;)
I don't know about salon offerings, I always drink Arbor Mist when I get my hair cut.:texan:

[SoonerGirl06]

As I am about to partake in my first margarita of the day I will say that I completely agree with your concerns and arguments against MADD.

Cheers to a great post SicEm!

[Harry Beanbag]

Heh. A young soldier with a rifle can kill a few American citizens too -- just ask the folks at Kent State.

I believe the drinking age was 18 back then so maybe we're both wrong. ;)


And if training is the issue, ****, offer training.

Exactly, we definitely need another government program to do this.

[King Crimson]

i don't even want to know what arbor mist is? tree condensation?

[SicEmBaylor]

i don't even want to know what arbor mist is? tree condensation?
Close.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbor_Mist

[SoonerGirl06]

i don't even want to know what arbor mist is? tree condensation?

Arbor Mist... isn't that along the lines of Boone's Farm... or Strawberry Hill?

[soonerinabilene]

I've heard this rumor for a long time that supposedly it is for a minor to drink in the state of Texas at a restaurant so long as they are accompanied by their parents. I never thought that was true though and never tried testing the rumor either.

It is legal for a minor to drink if in the presence of you parents in Texas. You have to show your id and your parents have to show theirs, proving they are your parents. The business selling the alcohol, whether it be a restaurant or a grocery store, does have the right to still refuse the sell, which most chain restaurants do.

[Vaevictis]

I believe the drinking age was 18 back then so maybe we're both wrong. ;)

Eh, I just think that if you're old enough to be trusted with life and death decisions -- hell, decisions that can cause the US to be dragged into a war, get soldiers or civilians killed, etc.... well, training or no, some liquor is no big deal.


Exactly, we definitely need another government program to do this.

shrug, don't even need to create another government program. Just make it a mandatory part of the driver's ed curriculum ;)

[King Crimson]

Close.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbor_Mist

that sounds terrible. like recycled leftovers from jugwine vineyards in Fresno.

Pinot Grigio and such are grape varieties, not "flavors".

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

MADD started with the acceptable intention of keeping drunk drivers off the roads by advocating stricter penalties for driving under the influence. I absolutely believe that someone caught drunk driving should be be penalized to the harshest extent possible.

But....then they started going a little overboard. Now, they've become a quasi-prohibitionist organization that advocates lowering the blood alcohol limit to such an extent that it'd be hard to even have a drink with your dinner and then go home. They pushed the open container laws, and that bothers me because I'm not a fan of laws that prosecute you for something you haven't done yet. For example, there's absolutely no harm in someone riding in the back or passenger's seat having an alcoholic beverage. Yet, if they are caught then they're treated as if they were driving.

They've also started applying the screws to businesses that sell alcoholic products and holding them personally responsible for alcohol related deaths. In other words, in MADD's opinion if I walked into my local liquor store and bought a big case of Zima and then drove drunk around town ultimately killing someone then that liquor store is liable. And currently they're wanting a breathalysers in every damned car made. EVERY car that won't turn on unless you breathe into the damned thing.

Look, I'm sympathetic to anyone who has lost a loved one to drunk driving. If not dead, the person driving drunk should absolutely be prosecuted as if it were an intentional homicide. But, I don't like all of these preventative laws that MADD advocates that do nothing but prosecute individuals before a true crime is ever even committed. I think what happens is that women do not think logically, they think emotionally. They're upset by something that is clearly an emotional issue and start looking for something to do in order to ease their own emotional suffering.

And of course, there's the fact that they've turned into a very powerful lobby and a lobby has to have something to lobby for or else there's no reason for it to exist. Velly interestink! I haven't paid much attention to MADD, or drinking laws overall, since I don't drink.(anymore)

[Harry Beanbag]

shrug, don't even need to create another government program. Just make it a mandatory part of the driver's ed curriculum ;)


Parents is the answer. Parents should be the ones training their kids for sex and alcohol, not the schools or government. I guess there are still a lot of people too uptight and embarassed by those subjects to teach their kids properly though. :(

[yermom]

You can? Crap I've been missing out. ;) Vae was talking about the military though.

ok, maybe so, but the point is still valid

you can assume that little Johnny is mature enough not to hide out on the roof across the street from his school with a high powered rifle and pretend his principal is a deer, but he can't handle some canoe beer?

[yermom]

Parents is the answer. Parents should be the ones training their kids for sex and alcohol, not the schools or government. I guess there are still a lot of people too uptight and embarassed by those subjects to teach their kids properly though. :(

i agree. instead of having some kind of idea of what is safe or acceptable, they are sneaking off and doing stupid ****. and then having to get home somehow without getting caught

[Harry Beanbag]

ok, maybe so, but the point is still valid

you can assume that little Johnny is mature enough not to hide out on the roof across the street from his school with a high powered rifle and pretend his principal is a deer, but he can't handle some canoe beer?


Not me, I think it should be 18 as well.

[Vaevictis]

Parents is the answer. Parents should be the ones training their kids for sex and alcohol, not the schools or government. I guess there are still a lot of people too uptight and embarassed by those subjects to teach their kids properly though. :(

Heh, I don't disagree that that is how it should be. But in practice, it (sadly) often doesn't work out that way.

But, I'll tell you what -- shove it into the drivers ed training that is now mandatory in a lot of states for <18 year olds to drive... and is privately operated -- and a hell of a lot of kids will get the training. ;)

[Harry Beanbag]

Heh, I don't disagree that that is how it should be. But in practice, it (sadly) often doesn't work out that way.

But, I'll tell you what -- shove it into the drivers ed training that is now mandatory in a lot of states for <18 year olds to drive... and is privately operated -- and a hell of a lot of kids will get the training. ;)


I think I may need a refresher course. :)

[Vaevictis]

Training often fails ;)

[yermom]

Not me, I think it should be 18 as well.

right. i just saying like a lot of things, there is no logic or fairness to it

[yermom]

Training often fails ;)

teenage immortality is a hard thing to combat

[OUHOMER]

I used to think that 18 yr olds could fight a war they could drink. Now I dont think that way. when an 18 yrs old goes to war he has been subjected to much training and discipline. those who have not been to training camp dont have the discipline to know when to stop or at least not drive.

But, i also hate for states to be held hostage by the federal gov.

[Harry Beanbag]

teenage immortality is a hard thing to combat


As my dad used to say: "teenagers are bulletproof and invisible".

[Harry Beanbag]

right. i just saying like a lot of things, there is no logic or fairness to it


That's another lesson that parents need to teach, life isn't fair.

[OU Adonis]

For those of you who think 21 is a good age for people to drink.

Do you realize what company the USA is in when we have the age set to 21?

Our brothers Egypt, Tunisia, Qatar, Oman, and the UAE are the only other countries on the planet that set the law to 21. Thats right folks, we are the only non muslim country to have the drinking age set to 21.

Maybe we follow our brothers from the middle east and have our women wear burkas to cut down rapes. (I say in jest)

There are two other countries countries that set their age limit to 20, everyone else is below that and most are 18 or lower.

Apparently everyone elses kids around the world are more mature than ours :(.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_drinking_age

[StoopTroup]

What's M.A.D.'s take on your views?

[olevetonahill]

When I was 18 I got drafted , I drank wherever I went No probs .
I dont have a prob with 18 yr olds drinkin legally .
The idiot ones are gonna do it anyway . the intelligent ones will handle it ok .

[yermom]

I used to think that 18 yr olds could fight a war they could drink. Now I dont think that way. when an 18 yrs old goes to war he has been subjected to much training and discipline. those who have not been to training camp dont have the discipline to know when to stop or at least not drive.

But, i also hate for states to be held hostage by the federal gov.

they aren't mature enough to handle liquor, but they are mature enough to make the decision to sign away their life to Uncle Sam or elect a president?

[StoopTroup]

they aren't mature enough to handle liquor, but they are mature enough to make the decision to sign away their life to Uncle Sam or elect a president?
Once they sign up...they will be allowed to drink.

[yermom]

that's not what i'm saying.

i don't follow the logic that they are adult enough to make the decision to sign up, but not drink as an adult

that seems like a pretty big decision

[StoopTroup]

They will be adult enough once they've done their duty to their Country.

Yes it's a huge decision.

[RacerX]

People need to quit being in such a big ****ing hurry to do everything.

[RacerX]

Age should have nothing to do with it. There are plenty of people older than 21 that have no business drinking.

[Sooner24]

it's actually worse than that, the biggest moralizers on the planet are the Baby Boomers.


The biggest bunch of whiney, I shouldn't have to follow any rule, I am entitled to everything, is the generation coming along right now. I can't wait to see what kind of screwed up world we are going to be left with in fifty years. :rolleyes:

[Sooner24]

As my dad used to say: "teenagers are bulletproof and invisible".


Are you sure he didn't say invincible?

[Jerk]

The biggest bunch of whiney, I shouldn't have to follow any rule, I am entitled to everything, is the generation coming along right now. I can't wait to see what kind of screwed up world we are going to be left with in fifty years. :rolleyes:
Anyone who is younger than 30 stands a fair chance of seeing this country either split into two or implode within their lifetime.

I say, let the young whipper-snappers drink and enjoy life whist they can. Happyness can be found at the bottom of a glass. 10-4?

[BajaOklahoma]

I've heard this rumor for a long time that supposedly it is for a minor to drink in the state of Texas at a restaurant so long as they are accompanied by their parents. I never thought that was true though and never tried testing the rumor either.

A friend and I had an argument over this law a couple of weeks ago. So we called a cop friend who said it is true. But there has to be a parent at the table at all times - if there is only one parent, who happens to leave for the restroom, you're SOL if a cop comes by. Stupid, but true.

[bluedogok]

A friend and I had an argument over this law a couple of weeks ago. So we called a cop friend who said it is true. But there has to be a parent at the table at all times - if there is only one parent, who happens to leave for the restroom, you're SOL if a cop comes by. Stupid, but true.
I was under the impression that it went away when the no open container for a passenger in a vehicle law came about. They changed a bunch of drinking laws in Texas around that time. I do know that many cities adopted a no one under 21 ordinance before then, so that can supersede the state law.

[Soonerus]

I don't know how to break this to you guys but it used to be legal in OKLAHOMA for 18 year olds to drink 3.2 beer (early 70's). In most of Europe no real age limit is imposed...

[bluedogok]

3.2 beer went to 21 in October of 1983. I was an OU freshman in 82-83 so I knew it well.

[RacerX]

I don't know how to break this to you guys but it used to be legal in OKLAHOMA for 18 year olds to drink 3.2 beer (early 70's). In most of Europe no real age limit is imposed...

And?

[SoonerGirl06]

The biggest bunch of whiney, I shouldn't have to follow any rule, I am entitled to everything, is the generation coming along right now. I can't wait to see what kind of screwed up world we are going to be left with in fifty years. :rolleyes:

And who do we have to blame for that? Isn't it up to the parents to teach their children right from wrong, morals, values and self responsibility?

[phead903]

And who do we have to blame for that? Isn't it up to the parents to teach their children right from wrong, morals, values and self responsibility?

well, they are just mimicing their celebrity heroes, who are never held responsible for anything that they do and are esssentially idolized for their misdeeds - I mean, Paris Hilton probably has a higher Q rating now than before she went to jail....Everybody is a victim and nobody wants to take personal responsibility for anything!!

That's my grumpy old man rant for tonight!!

[SoonerGirl06]

well, they are just mimicing their celebrity heroes, who are never held responsible for anything that they do and are esssentially idolized for their misdeeds - I mean, Paris Hilton probably has a higher Q rating now than before she went to jail....Everybody is a victim and nobody wants to take personal responsibility for anything!!

That's my grumpy old man rant for tonight!!

Oh good Lord! Paris Hilton is a joke and any parent who lets their child idolize her need to have their heads examined.

[SoonerObsession]

In my opinion half of the people who are of legal age don't drink responsibly, so maybe we should just get rid of alcoholic beverages altogether. I know it will never happen, but alcohol is as big a problem in our country as cancer.

[1stTimeCaller]

If you have a military ID, not a dependent card but one that lists your rank you should be able to drink. If you are 18 and have proof that you graduated from HS you should be able to drink.

The second may be a little incentive for kids to not drop out of school.


The biggest bunch of whiney, I shouldn't have to follow any rule, I am entitled to everything, is the generation coming along right now. I can't wait to see what kind of screwed up world we are going to be left with in fifty years
I'm not going to bust your balls because every generation says this about the next. Plato, Socrates, or Aristotle has a pretty good quote about it. WorldCom, Enron and others were not being led by my generation.

[jk the sooner fan]

i disagree that volunteering for the military should be a license to drink

it might be different if they were drafted, but they arent......they are volunteering for duty...18 year olds are drafted because they are physically fit to fight and FOLLOW........they arent mentally fit to lead at that age

as always there are some rare exceptions, but based on what i know of 18 year olds, i'm all for them having to wait.....and the fact that many of them are drinking under age isnt a reason to just simply do away with the rule

[SoonerGirl06]

In my opinion half of the people who are of legal age don't drink responsibly, so maybe we should just get rid of alcoholic beverages altogether. I know it will never happen, but alcohol is as big a problem in our country as cancer.

So instead of punishing just those that break the laws, we should just go ahead and punish everyone who cares to partake in the drinking of alcoholic beverages?

How about instilling responsible drinking habits instead?

[Okla-homey]

i disagree that volunteering for the military should be a license to drink

it might be different if they were drafted, but they arent......they are volunteering for duty...18 year olds are drafted because they are physically fit to fight and FOLLOW........they arent mentally fit to lead at that age

as always there are some rare exceptions, but based on what i know of 18 year olds, i'm all for them having to wait.....and the fact that many of them are drinking under age isnt a reason to just simply do away with the rule

Just join and ask for an overseas assignment. Once OCONUS, drink all you want.

[SoonerGirl06]

Hell... all this talk about drinking is giving me a hangover...

[jk the sooner fan]

i think a better argument for 18, than the military, would be the ability to vote in presidential elections

[phead903]

So instead of punishing just those that break the laws, we should just go ahead and punish everyone who cares to partake in the drinking of alcoholic beverages?

How about instilling responsible drinking habits instead?

I used to work for a company based in Belgium and when I would travel over there, I was amazed at the cavalier attitude toward teens drinking - it was like it was normal, so there was no "binge" attitude about drinking...hence the teens were much more responsible about drinking.

People with addictive personalities are going to find a way to abuse some chemical no matter what their drug of choice is or what the age of consent is set at...

[jk the sooner fan]

does anybody know the driving age in europe?

anybody?

its not 16.......

[Rogue]

This was on my mind in 1991. I wrote a letter home to Mom on my 18th birthday from Iraq. The letter was more thoughtful than most I wrote and the snippet about me ranting about not being able to drink legally when I got home was what made this book. http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p99/cjrogue/2463_1.jpg

18 is the legal age of adulthood and the accepted age in our society when young folk leave the home for good. Whether it's to the military, college, work, etc. It is usually an age when you are legally responsible as an adult. Commit a heinous crime...adult. Vote in elections...adult. Join the military without Mom and Dad's consent...adult. Work >40 hours a week and pay taxes...adult. Buy beer, wine or liquor...wait 3 more years because we wants our highway money.

[SoonerGirl06]

I used to work for a company based in Belgium and when I would travel over there, I was amazed at the cavalier attitude toward teens drinking - it was like it was normal, so there was no "binge" attitude about drinking...hence the teens were much more responsible about drinking.

People with addictive personalities are going to find a way to abuse some chemical no matter what their drug of choice is or what the age of consent is set at...

Sounds like they know what they're doing.

I think it's the responsibility of the parents to teach their children responsible drinking habits.

And your right about the addictive personalities....



I either need to get a different keyboard or shorten my nails cuz I'm having one hell of a time typing on this thing.... :(

[RacerX]

i think a better argument for 18, than the military, would be the ability to vote in presidential elections

It was 18 in Germany when my Dad and the rest of us were stationed there.

They're also really hard on drunk driving.

[Soonerus]

And?

draw your own conclusions, I am not into roadmaps...

[RacerX]

No. You're into dots.

[Half a Hundred]

I don't know how to break this to you guys but it used to be legal in OKLAHOMA for 18 year olds to drink 3.2 beer (early 70's). In most of Europe no real age limit is imposed...

And before even that, it was legal for girls to buy 3.2 beer at 18, but guys had to wait until 21. A SCOTUS case and a 14th Amendment ruling put an end to that.

[Soonerus]

No. You're into dots.

for the more literate, they are called ellipsis...

[olevetonahill]

i disagree that volunteering for the military should be a license to drink

it might be different if they were drafted, but they arent......they are volunteering for duty...18 year olds are drafted because they are physically fit to fight and FOLLOW........they arent mentally fit to lead at that age

as always there are some rare exceptions, but based on what i know of 18 year olds, i'm all for them having to wait.....and the fact that many of them are drinking under age isnt a reason to just simply do away with the rule
So at 18 I was a Corporal sent to Nam had a squad Ya sayn I wasnt fit ?
Dayum Im glad I didnt know that then .:P

[olevetonahill]

does anybody know the driving age in europe?

anybody?

its not 16.......
In Germany The legal Drinking age is 16 , they can drive at 18 ,
I just talked to My Imported DIL :cool:

[Soonerus]

Actually I think it is common in Germany for 12 and up to drink....

[bluedogok]

I find most of the law changes like that are probably due to the people in power remembering what they were like as kids and don't want their kids to be the same way. So they make it against the law and think that will solve all their fears.

[olevetonahill]

for the more literate, they are called ellipsis...
Call em what you want . The rest of us think your a Dot head :P

[Soonerus]

I am OK with either....

[olevetonahill]

I am OK with either....
:D :D :D

[Soonerus]

he he he...

[Scott D]

In Germany The legal Drinking age is 16 , they can drive at 18 ,
I just talked to My Imported DIL :cool:

relatively speaking...generally it was "if you could see over the edge of the bar, you were old enough to order a beer". At least it was when my uncle was stationed over there, which is how my cousin became an alcoholic as a teenager.

then again, I learned from someone else that in some of those countries the children tend to temper their drinking if for no other reason than to avoid public shame on their families. Also, in some of those countries (at least in the late 80s early 90s) the only license you could get before the age of 18 was for a scooter, and you couldn't get a driver license for a car until you were at least 18.

[Soonerus]

In Germany, after high school, every student owes two years service to the government, not the army, but government...not a bad idea...

[olevetonahill]

relatively speaking...generally it was "if you could see over the edge of the bar, you were old enough to order a beer". At least it was when my uncle was stationed over there, which is how my cousin became an alcoholic as a teenager.

then again, I learned from someone else that in some of those countries the children tend to temper their drinking if for no other reason than to avoid public shame on their families. Also, in some of those countries (at least in the late 80s early 90s) the only license you could get before the age of 18 was for a scooter, and you couldn't get a driver license for a car until you were at least 18.
Aint that what I said ?
Now whos gettin all verbose ? Huh Huh Huh ?:D

[yermom]

In Germany, after high school, every student owes two years service to the government, not the army, but government...not a bad idea...


i kinda like that idea

[Soonerus]

i kinda like that idea

agreed...

[jk the sooner fan]

So at 18 I was a Corporal sent to Nam had a squad Ya sayn I wasnt fit ?
Dayum Im glad I didnt know that then .:P

were you drafted?

[Sooner24]

If you have a military ID, not a dependent card but one that lists your rank you should be able to drink. If you are 18 and have proof that you graduated from HS you should be able to drink.

The second may be a little incentive for kids to not drop out of school.


I'm not going to bust your balls because every generation says this about the next. Plato, Socrates, or Aristotle has a pretty good quote about it. WorldCom, Enron and others were not being led by my generation.


True, but by the time you're my age that will seem like nothing compared to the crap your generation is going to have to deal with. :D Have fun.

[olevetonahill]

were you drafted?
Yup and after 3 months In Country I was leadin 3 man recon patrols .

[jk the sooner fan]

Yup and after 3 months In Country I was leadin 3 man recon patrols .

ok, and did you read where i specifically talked about those volunteering vs. those drafted?

me thinks you need to re-read what i wrote

[Soonerus]

Salute "BIG TIME" to Ole.....

[olevetonahill]

ok, and did you read where i specifically talked about those volunteering vs. those drafted?

me thinks you need to re-read what i wrote
But I dont see the Dif . Both 18 1 forced to go the other wants to go ? I fail to see your point . Maybe Im just a ****ed up ole vet .:confused:

[jk the sooner fan]

But I dont see the Dif . Both 18 1 forced to go the other wants to go ? I fail to see your point . Maybe Im just a ****ed up ole vet .:confused:

no, i think its just a difference of opinion

choosing a profession doesnt (to me) equate to the privilege or right to consume alcohol

i just dont see where the two go hand in hand

[olevetonahill]

Ok My Point of view
If ya can Kill you should be able to swill :D

[jk the sooner fan]

ok, so the 18 year old finance clerk.......the one that never see's any type of combat....him too?

[olevetonahill]

ok, so the 18 year old finance clerk.......the one that never see's any type of combat....him too?
An 18 yr old finace clerk is gonna be 2 skeered of his own shadow . So Ya
I really dont have a prob with 18 yr olds being able to legaly drink
Plus I was drinkin On Base Befor I ever went to Nam .

[1stTimeCaller]

True, but by the time you're my age that will seem like nothing compared to the crap your generation is going to have to deal with. :D Have fun.

I just find it funny when folks like you try to discount an entire younger gereration as if yours was the be all end all. I hope your kids know what you think of them.

Remember, my generation gets to pick the nursing homes for yours. :D

*assuming you are a Baby Boomer

[Scott D]

Aint that what I said ?
Now whos gettin all verbose ? Huh Huh Huh ?:D

naw you said 16...I'd hope that from what I've seen they can see over the bar younger than that ;)

[1stTimeCaller]

Scott D, was your cousin raised in the States or overseas? If he was raised in the US and had never gone to Germany as a teenager he would have more than likely been an alcoholic at 21.

Binge drinking and misuse of alcohol has as much to the way we are raised and the taboo placed upon alcohol as anything else. If it's not a big deal, it's not a big deal.

[Sooner24]

I just find it funny when folks like you try to discount an entire younger gereration as if yours was the be all end all. I hope your kids know what you think of them.

Remember, my generation gets to pick the nursing homes for yours. :D

*assuming you are a Baby Boomer


Laugh away, but things that happen on a daily basis today, school shootings, pedophiles, kids raped and murdered, etc, etc, rarely if ever happened when I was your age. When they did people were shocked and disgusted. Now people just pretty much accept it as what happens today and go on. Just wait thirty years and see how much better it gets.

[1stTimeCaller]

How old are you?

[1stTimeCaller]

You might accept it and go on but I don't know of anyone that does. But it's nice to know that the Baby Boomer generation is not committing these crimes. Just whatever you call my generation (I'm 28) is comitting these heinous acts.

[Sooner24]

How old are you?


Old enough to remember when Mary Jo Kopechne should have taken a taxi. :eek:

[Sooner24]

You might accept it and go on but I don't know of anyone that does. But it's nice to know that the Baby Boomer generation is not committing these crimes. Just whatever you call my generation (I'm 28) is comitting these heinous acts.


I'm not saying it's just your generation. It's the whole world going down the tubes and it's not going to get any better just worse.

[olevetonahill]

You might accept it and go on but I don't know of anyone that does. But it's nice to know that the Baby Boomer generation is not committing these crimes. Just whatever you call my generation (I'm 28) is comitting these heinous acts.
You young Punk you ! Ya better make sure wherever ys put Me has a Natty lite fridge !:mad:

[1stTimeCaller]

Olevet, don't force me to make this dark blue line go up ;)

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/ncsucr2.gif

[olevetonahill]

Olevet, don't force me to make this dark blue line go up ;)

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/ncsucr2.gif
Aint skeered !

[Sooner24]

You young Punk you ! Ya better make sure wherever ys put Me has a Natty lite fridge !:mad:


He will probably make you drink Schlitz. :eek:

[1stTimeCaller]

Zima :eek:

[yermom]

and no medicinal marijuana ;)

[Scott D]

Scott D, was your cousin raised in the States or overseas? If he was raised in the US and had never gone to Germany as a teenager he would have more than likely been an alcoholic at 21.

Binge drinking and misuse of alcohol has as much to the way we are raised and the taboo placed upon alcohol as anything else. If it's not a big deal, it's not a big deal.

So far as I know he didn't start drinking until my uncle got stationed over in Germany. Honestly, I agree with your point and we're both pretty much stressing the same thing, in regards to young Americans overseas. My family has always thought it was a good thing they discovered the problem when they did and it happened where it did, because it gave him a chance earlier in life than most to get turned around..and now he's doing well in the Air Force, and has a chance to pass his father in rank by retirement (uncle retired as a half bird.)

[CORNholio]

Why not make drinking like buying a gun. If you're felony free and 18-21 with no DUI's you should have the same rights as every other american. The minute you fudge it up then revoke the privilage

[StoopTroup]

Why not make drinking like buying a gun. If you're felony free and 18-21 with no DUI's you should have the same rights as every other american. The minute you fudge it up then revoke the privilage
What if your an Illegal? ;)

:pop:

[Harry Beanbag]

Are you sure he didn't say invincible?


I'm positive about what he said many many times. :confused:

[Rogue]

Why not make drinking like buying a gun. If you're felony free and 18-21 with no DUI's you should have the same rights as every other american. The minute you fudge it up then revoke the privilage

Yeah, we're gonna fingerprint ya and run a background check to buy a 6 pack down at the Kwikee Mart. Maybe you're just thinking out loud here and throwing out an ideer that is crazier than the current situation. Otherwise I oughtta smack your ideer into bolivian.

[OU Adonis]

Nm didn't format right

[CORNholio]

Yeah, we're gonna fingerprint ya and run a background check to buy a 6 pack down at the Kwikee Mart. Maybe you're just thinking out loud here and throwing out an ideer that is crazier than the current situation. Otherwise I oughtta smack your ideer into bolivian.

Nope maybe just put a little letter on your DL like people who have to wear glasses to drive.

[CORNholio]

dont think it would be all that difficult with computers and all.

[Frozen Sooner]

jk, am I reading you right that you feel that someone who waits until he HAS to join the military should have more right to drink than someone who hears the call and joins up willingly? That seems a bit backward to me.

[jk the sooner fan]

no, i'm just saying that to me, being military service at that age should not, in itself, be a license to drink

[Frozen Sooner]

Oh, gotcha. Misunderstood you.

The drinking age is something I have a hard time with. After last night, I sorta think it should be raised to 34. :)

[AlbqSooner]

no, i'm just saying that to me, being military service at that age should not, in itself, be a license to drink
When I was in the Air Force at age 18, a volunteer enlistee, I could stop by the bowling alley and drink beer with my military ID. That was at Tinker AFB, so the out of country deal did not apply then.

I say I was a volunteer enlistee. I enlisted because I figured the Air Force was a lot safer than getting drafted into the Army and my lottery number was 16, so it wasn't all that voluntary.

As far as the tendency to abuse alcohol, or other substances for that matter, I have a good deal of experience dealing with that. Nowhere in any of the literature does it indicate that people who have been "trained" to drink responsibly will not abuse alcohol. Nurture plays very little part in it. An alcoholic is essentially predestined to alcoholism before their first drink unless they either don't ever start, or alternatively, recognize the disease in its early stages (almost never happens) and learn how not to drink.

I am a "BabyBoomer". We made our fair share of mistakes. I, like my parents before me, will try to keep younger generations from making the same mistakes. By and large I, like my parents before me, will fail at this endeavor.

[OU-HSV]

At 18 you're old enough to vote, drive, put your life on the line for this great country, legally smoke, and so on....but you can't drink? I agree, the legal age to drink needs changed.

[jk the sooner fan]

Oh, gotcha. Misunderstood you.

The drinking age is something I have a hard time with. After last night, I sorta think it should be raised to 34. :)

let me try and rephrase what i was trying to say

if a majority of 18 year olds were actually going off and serving their country, i'd listen to that argument

but to say "IF i can go fight, then i should be able to drink"

well VERY few of them are actually going to fight.....very few of them are exercising their voting rights......but they'll all drink like fish using the excuse that "well i COULD be fighting for my country"

thats why i mentioned that if we had a draft, i'd look at it differently

hopefully that makes better sense

[olevetonahill]

let me try and rephrase what i was trying to say

if a majority of 18 year olds were actually going off and serving their country, i'd listen to that argument

but to say "IF i can go fight, then i should be able to drink"

well VERY few of them are actually going to fight.....very few of them are exercising their voting rights......but they'll all drink like fish using the excuse that "well i COULD be fighting for my country"

thats why i mentioned that if we had a draft, i'd look at it differently

hopefully that makes better sense
I see your Point a lil better but I still aint buyin it :D

[1stTimeCaller]

Not really.

[jk the sooner fan]

I see your Point a lil better but I still aint buyin it :D

thats fine, its a matter of a difference of opinion

i just think of the actual percentages of 18 year olds that actually go off to serve their country, and the FAR greater percentage that doesnt....its a personal choice when its an all volunteer force

but i have a hard time hearing a freshman or sophomore at OU who spends his/her days partying and doing ......for the most part, what they want....using the argument "i could be serving my country, so why cant i drink"

then go serve!!!!!!! or stfu

[Okla-homey]

thats fine, its a matter of a difference of opinion

i just think of the actual percentages of 18 year olds that actually go off to serve their country, and the FAR greater percentage that doesnt....its a personal choice when its an all volunteer force

but i have a hard time hearing a freshman or sophomore at OU who spends his/her days partying and doing ......for the most part, what they want....using the argument "i could be serving my country, so why cant i drink"

then go serve!!!!!!! or stfu

Okay, how about this? Old enough to serve on a jury and decide whether a accused is allowed to go free or spend the rest of his life in the penitentiary...old enough to buy a beer.

[jk the sooner fan]

well, i'm sure i said earlier in this thread that a better argument would be the voting age......

[Okla-homey]

well, i'm sure i said earlier in this thread that a better argument would be the voting age......

Or enter into a binding contract. At 18, you can buy a house...but you can't buy a Zima.

[jk the sooner fan]

Or enter into a binding contract. At 18, you can buy a house...but you can't buy a Zima.

well, you've used two examples that happen with as much frequency as me winning the lottery

my experience with 18 year olds and alcohol is what shapes my opinion

[Okla-homey]

well, you've used two examples that happen with as much frequency as me winning the lottery

my experience with 18 year olds and alcohol is what shapes my opinion

I would support raising the driving age to 18 and lowering the drinking age to 16. I think that would save more lives.

[jk the sooner fan]

that makes no sense whatsoever......many of you have already said that many teenagers are already drinking anyway

[StoopTroup]

I think it's OK for teens to drink if they use the OldVet Method of a baby bottle and a condom as a nipple.

[Scott D]

I would support raising the driving age to 18 and lowering the drinking age to 16. I think that would save more lives.

using this logic you should advocate lowering the age of consent to 12...since that would prevent more new lives for unprepared parents. ;)

[OU Adonis]

Legal age of consent is 16 and I think thats low enough :)

[Scott D]

it's not 16 everywhere mr. no more man card ;)

[jk the sooner fan]

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/13246.html


After Prohibition, nearly all states restricting youth access to alcohol designated 21 as the minimum legal drinking age (MLDA). Between 1970 and 1975, however, 29 states lowered the MLDA to 18, 19, or 20. These changes occurred when the minimum age for other activities, such as voting, also were being lowered (Wechsler & Sands, 1980). Scientists began studying the effects of the lowered MLDA, focusing particularly on the incidence of motor vehicle crashes, the leading cause of death among teenagers. Several studies in the 1970s found that motor vehicle crashes increased significantly among teens when the MLDA was lowered (Cucchiaro et al, 1974; Douglas et al, 1974; Wagenaar, 1983, 1993; Whitehead, 1977; Whitehead et al, 1975; Williams et al, 1974).

With evidence that a lower drinking age resulted in more traffic injuries and fatalities among youth, citizen advocacy groups pressured states to restore the MLDA to 21. Because of such advocacy campaigns, 16 states increased their MLDAs between September 1976 and January 1983. Resistance from other states, and concern that minors would travel across state lines to purchase and consume alcohol, prompted the federal government in 1984 to enact the Uniform Drinking Age Act, which mandated reduced federal transportation funds to those states that did not raise the MLDA to 21. Among alcohol control policies, the MLDA has been the most studied: since the 1970s, at least 70 studies have examined the effects of either increasing or decreasing the MLDA.

[StoopTroup]

If we lost Federal Money for Roads...would Turnpike Fees increase?

[Scott D]

yes

[StoopTroup]

How much?

[jk the sooner fan]

How much?

how much is a six pack?

[Scott D]

How much?

some nominal amount, I'd go with probably 25% of what it is now in an increase. The states would then cut funding from other areas (correctional facilities) to try to compensate for the shortfall.

[jk the sooner fan]

so lets review...there was a time when the drinking age WAS 18...deaths and such rose, so they increased it to 21....deaths went down

hmmm

[Scott D]

jk, why do you hate Canada?

p.s. I find it amusing that this subject was brought up (again) by someone who should be older than 18.

[jk the sooner fan]

one of the things i read said that connecticut says its illegal to buy beer under 21, but not consume

interesting twist

[OU Adonis]

If we ban booze then we will REALLY cut down booze related traffic deaths.

[Okla-homey]

I say again, if we're REALLY concerned about teen deaths, raise the driving age to 18. That, unlike the "21 to drink law," is enforceable.

[Ike]

so lets review...there was a time when the drinking age WAS 18...deaths and such rose, so they increased it to 21....deaths went down

hmmm

and now we know what to thank for urban gridlock ;)

[jk the sooner fan]

I say again, if we're REALLY concerned about teen deaths, raise the driving age to 18. That, unlike the "21 to drink law," is enforceable.

how is that any more or less enforceable than the drinking age?

are cops expected to pull over everybody that looks like they might be under 18 to check for their age?

[sooner_born_1960]

I say again, if we're REALLY concerned about teen deaths, raise the driving age to 18. That, unlike the "21 to drink law," is enforceable.
Do we raise the driving age to 18 absolutley, or do we allow for driving to work?

[jk the sooner fan]

Do we raise the driving age to 18 absolutley, or do we allow for driving to work?

the farmers and ranchers would have a real problem with raising the driving age to 18

[Okla-homey]

how is that any more or less enforceable than the drinking age?

are cops expected to pull over everybody that looks like they might be under 18 to check for their age?

Easy. If junior doesn't have a license, mommy and daddy won't give him/her the keys. OTOH, mommy and daddy don't have much to say about it when Junior gets beer.

[Okla-homey]

the farmers and ranchers would have a real problem with raising the driving age to 18

It's really not a problem. Most messican farm workers are at least 18.

[Scott D]

It's really not a problem. Most messican farm workers are at least 18.

:rolleyes:

[yermom]

so lets review...there was a time when the drinking age WAS 18...deaths and such rose, so they increased it to 21....deaths went down

hmmm

i'll bet if we banned guns then gun deaths would drop too

[Scott D]

I'll make a compromise

I'm willing to agree to the legal drinking age being 18 if we can repeal every single one of the child labor laws.

[jk the sooner fan]

It's really not a problem. Most messican farm workers are at least 18.

wow..for somebody that grew up in oklahoma, thats a fairly ignorant statement

[yermom]

he has bouts of those sometimes ;)

[royalfan5]

the farmers and ranchers would have a real problem with raising the driving age to 18
Oklahoma farmers and ranchers don't ignore that like we do up here? Does Oklahoma let kids drive to school when they are 14 currently?

[Tear Down This Wall]

The only reason the states have a drinking age of 21 is because the federal government will withhold highway money if a state has it lowered.

Anyone else think this is BS?

The drinking age should be 25 and accompanied by an written essay exam.

Also, anyone under 21 years old caught drinking should be sentenced to 10 consecutive weekends in a hospital emergency room to see tragic, firsthand results of drunks of all ages "just out having a good time and not bothering anyone." They should also be required to attend three funerals of victims killed in drunk-driving accidents.

[yermom]

some of you people are retarded

[JohnnyMack]

They should also be required to attend three funerals of victims killed in drunk-driving accidents.

I went to one of those once. Not fun.

[Vaevictis]

well, you've used two examples that happen with as much frequency as me winning the lottery

Well, the binding contract doesn't have to be a horse. It might be enlisting in the military, for example. You don't get much more binding than that. ;)


so lets review...there was a time when the drinking age WAS 18...deaths and such rose, so they increased it to 21....deaths went down

hmmm

If that's the measure, I imagine that the number of deaths decrease further if we re-enact prohibition.

[royalfan5]

If that's the measure, I imagine that the number of deaths decrease further if we re-enact prohibition.

and hire Rex Banner to enforce it.

[jk the sooner fan]

Well, the binding contract doesn't have to be a horse. It might be enlisting in the military, for example. You don't get much more binding than that. ;)



If that's the measure, I imagine that the number of deaths decrease further if we re-enact prohibition.

no ****? really?



again, if an 18 year old wants to use the military excuse, then join first....i'll listen if they're in uniform

[Vaevictis]

no ****? really?

Well, you did say "well, you've used two examples that happen with as much frequency as me winning the lottery" with reference to Okla-homey's comment about the binding contract.

Never mind that 18 year olds enter into binding contracts all the ****ing time.

(... unless, of course, you were being rediculously obtuse and focusing on the horse part of it. In which case, I think it's fair to point out that the horse wasn't the important part of his statement, because your statement suggested that you didn't quite get that.)


again, if an 18 year old wants to use the military excuse, then join first....i'll listen if they're in uniform

shrug, and again, if 18 years old is old enough that you can trust someone with the responsibilities of being in the military, you ought to be able to trust them with a beer. And if you can't trust them with a beer, you sure as hell can't trust them with the responsibilities of being in the military.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Comparing drinking beer to serving in the military is the stupidest argument on the planet. Communism makes more sense.

To drink beer, all you have to do is crack open a can and drink it. The beer companies have already spotted you the hole in the top of the can and even attached a mechanism to help depress said hole.

To serve in the military takes commitment, courage, and discipline. It requires you to agree to sacrifice your own wants and needs to that of the security of your country.

You spoiled rotten brats. There is no compulsary military service. By turning 18, you have the right to decide to defend your country and make yourself a better person. Drinking beer has no parallel whatsoever to deciding to join the military.

In the military, you are supervised to the hilt 24 hours a day. An 18 year old sitting around drinking beer with his derelict buddies is nothing like being in the military. The choice to do either isn't the same.

My cousin fighting terrorists in Baghdad didn't say to himself, "Well, gee, I'm 18 now...do I drink beer or join the military? Dammit, I can't do both because of these stupid federal coersions on the states regarding the drinking age. I'll just join the Army and get it over with."

Morons. Any jackas*s can open a can a beer and drink it. Not everybody has the guts and grit to be in the military. Quit comparing the two.

[Chuck Bao]

Heh!

I don't think anyone is arguing that it is an either / or type of thing or equivocate the two very different decisions. I assume that we are trying to determine an appropriate age of accountability.

An arbitary number, obviously, wouldn't be suitable for everyone, but we, as a society, have to choose.

I'd still argue that 18 year olds should be allowed to drink and the same harsh penalties for drunk driving apply for everyone that age and up.

[JohnnyMack]

Comparing drinking beer to serving in the military is the stupidest argument on the planet. Communism makes more sense.

To drink beer, all you have to do is crack open a can and drink it. The beer companies have already spotted you the hole in the top of the can and even attached a mechanism to help depress said hole.

To serve in the military takes commitment, courage, and discipline. It requires you to agree to sacrifice your own wants and needs to that of the security of your country.

You spoiled rotten brats. There is no compulsary military service. By turning 18, you have the right to decide to defend your country and make yourself a better person. Drinking beer has no parallel whatsoever to deciding to join the military.

In the military, you are supervised to the hilt 24 hours a day. An 18 year old sitting around drinking beer with his derelict buddies is nothing like being in the military. The choice to do either isn't the same.

My cousin fighting terrorists in Baghdad didn't say to himself, "Well, gee, I'm 18 now...do I drink beer or join the military? Dammit, I can't do both because of these stupid federal coersions on the states regarding the drinking age. I'll just join the Army and get it over with."

Morons. Any jackas*s can open a can a beer and drink it. Not everybody has the guts and grit to be in the military. Quit comparing the two.

Wow. Somewhat lucid and cogent. I agree with most of it. Good jorb.

[1stTimeCaller]

In the military, you are supervised to the hilt 24 hours a day.
Really? You obviously never served,

[jk the sooner fan]

while 24 hours a day may be an exaggeration, its closer to the truth than it is farther

[GrapevineSooner]

I didn't have a major problem with the drinking age being 21 when I was under 21. I'll admit I had a brew about 10 months short of my 21st birthday and right around the time I was 21, I thought of drinking as being a big deal in my life.

Then I got hammered one night (after turning 21), came home scared to death my parents would find out because I tried to throw up in the bathroom but couldn't.

Worst I've ever felt in my life.

And that put drinking into it's proper context in my life.

[yermom]

Comparing drinking beer to serving in the military is the stupidest argument on the planet. Communism makes more sense.

To drink beer, all you have to do is crack open a can and drink it. The beer companies have already spotted you the hole in the top of the can and even attached a mechanism to help depress said hole.

To serve in the military takes commitment, courage, and discipline. It requires you to agree to sacrifice your own wants and needs to that of the security of your country.

You spoiled rotten brats. There is no compulsary military service. By turning 18, you have the right to decide to defend your country and make yourself a better person. Drinking beer has no parallel whatsoever to deciding to join the military.

In the military, you are supervised to the hilt 24 hours a day. An 18 year old sitting around drinking beer with his derelict buddies is nothing like being in the military. The choice to do either isn't the same.

My cousin fighting terrorists in Baghdad didn't say to himself, "Well, gee, I'm 18 now...do I drink beer or join the military? Dammit, I can't do both because of these stupid federal coersions on the states regarding the drinking age. I'll just join the Army and get it over with."

Morons. Any jackas*s can open a can a beer and drink it. Not everybody has the guts and grit to be in the military. Quit comparing the two.

who is comparing? it's not that they are being compared, or equated. it's ****ing ridiculous that someone supposedly can be held accountable to a contract that puts them directly in harms way at 18, yet they can't be assumed to be responsible to not drink and drive. it sounds rather self-serving to me. you want young impressionable kids to be able to enlist, but you don't care about the general freedoms of young American adults.

sure, maybe the numbers don't add up, and lots of people are ****ing stupid, but you guys sure seem to like government control on this issue. i thought you guys were conservatives?

[Vaevictis]

while 24 hours a day may be an exaggeration, its closer to the truth than it is farther

Really, IMO, the supervision line is a load of crap. Yeah, you're "supervised", but usually that just means you get punished after the fact, right?

It's really kind of too late if your "supervisor" chews you a new ******* for firing into that crowd contrary to orders, right?

[1stTimeCaller]

while 24 hours a day may be an exaggeration, its closer to the truth than it is farther

then how/when do these 18-21 year olds find time to get into trouble?

Not everyone in the military is in the Infantry and even then, they aren't out in the field all month every month.

[jk the sooner fan]

then how/when do these 18-21 year olds find time to get into trouble?

Not everyone in the military is in the Infantry and even then, they aren't out in the field all month every month.

obviously nobody gets watched 24/7.....but you are accountable for your actions 24/7, no matter where you are......and in many cases, depending on the severity of the trouble, your first line supervisor is going to get called on the carpet at the very least for an A/C....

tell me where you find that in the civilan world?

where in the civilian world can your supervisor knock on your door at any time of the day and inspect your room?

if a platoon sergeant shows up in the barracks at midnite, i'd call that supervision.....

[Vaevictis]

where in the civilian world can your supervisor knock on your door at any time of the day and inspect your room?

I dunno, that warrant for your DUI the other day could be served at any time, no? :D

[1stTimeCaller]

I'm accountable for my actions 24/7 right now. My mom could drive down here at any time of the night and knock on my door.

Not everyone lives in the barracks...............

I think you are getting supervision confused with punishment.

[OU Adonis]

i thought you guys were conservatives?

The republican party has changed the last 10 years. It seems now its for government control.

[OU Adonis]

I still find it funny that people totally ignored the fact the only other 5 countries in the world with drinking ages as high as the USA are muslim countries.

Egypt, Tunisia, Qatar, Oman, and the UAE

[1stTimeCaller]

I just think all citizens of the US should have the same rights and privleges as every other citizen.

[yermom]

exactly.

[OU Adonis]

I just think all citizens of the US should have the same rights and privleges as every other citizen.

Thats a good way to put it. Would we have a seperate age for Native Americans since they have a higher rate of alcoholism? Absolutely not because that is racial discrimination.

[jk the sooner fan]

I'm accountable for my actions 24/7 right now. My mom could drive down here at any time of the night and knock on my door.

Not everyone lives in the barracks...............

I think you are getting supervision confused with punishment.

no, i dont have the two confused....me knocking on your door in the barracks at midnite doesnt mean there's going to be punishment - what if i check on you and you arent doing anything wrong? it just means i exercised some oversight and supervision

you found fault with his diatribe in that the military is supervised (or isnt) 24/7.....i simply said it was "closer to the truth than farther from it"

how you got an absolute out of that is beyond me.....

[jk the sooner fan]

I just think all citizens of the US should have the same rights and privleges as every other citizen.


well thats the whole concept behind a privilege, it can be given and taken away

but currently, i'm of the understanding that every citizen of the US over the age of 21 has the same rights and privileges of every other citizen of the US over the age of 21

its a morality law, plain and simple.......a public safety law

i dont personally see anything wrong with having some restrictions where alcohol is concerned

[JohnnyMack]

who is comparing? it's not that they are being compared, or equated. it's ****ing ridiculous that someone supposedly can be held accountable to a contract that puts them directly in harms way at 18, yet they can't be assumed to be responsible to not drink and drive. it sounds rather self-serving to me. you want young impressionable kids to be able to enlist, but you don't care about the general freedoms of young American adults.

sure, maybe the numbers don't add up, and lots of people are ****ing stupid, but you guys sure seem to like government control on this issue. i thought you guys were conservatives?

I think 18 year olds and liquor has proven to be enough of a problem that I have to disagree with you. I think there are situations in which 18 year old kids need to be kept under tighter control, because there are too many stupid ones out there to make it worth the risk.

The one's who want to enlist in the military aren't the kids that the Govt. is trying to keep away from the liquor, it's the turds who will abuse the lowered drinking age, get behind the wheel and kill you that are the problem.

[1stTimeCaller]

That wasn't the only fault I found with his rambling it was just the only one I addressed. ;)

Don't RAs in the dorms have the same ability? Would you consider a freshman in the dorms at OU to be closer to being supervised 24/7 than not?

[jk the sooner fan]

who is comparing? it's not that they are being compared, or equated. it's ****ing ridiculous that someone supposedly can be held accountable to a contract that puts them directly in harms way at 18, yet they can't be assumed to be responsible to not drink and drive. it sounds rather self-serving to me. you want young impressionable kids to be able to enlist, but you don't care about the general freedoms of young American adults.

sure, maybe the numbers don't add up, and lots of people are ****ing stupid, but you guys sure seem to like government control on this issue. i thought you guys were conservatives?

i think his argument, and mine, has been that the underage drinking crowd likes to use the fact that they are capable of serving as a reason to lower the drinking age, but those people arent serving at all....if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle

the government controls alot of what we do personally, its why drugs are illegal, its why you cant buy beer on sunday till after the noon hour

the drinking age was once lowered to 18, alcohol related deaths of that crowd went up significantly enough that they raised the age back up....then the numbers went down

conservatives and libertarians arent the same

[1stTimeCaller]

but what about those citizens between the ages of 18 and 21?

[jk the sooner fan]

That wasn't the only fault I found with his rambling it was just the only one I addressed. ;)

Don't RAs in the dorms have the same ability? Would you consider a freshman in the dorms at OU to be closer to being supervised 24/7 than not?

no because a freshamn at OU doesnt wake and spend his day accountable to a training schedule and that RA - the RA is a dorm room problem solver and keeper of the peace, he reports activity, for correction by others

i'd correlate and RA to the CQ

[jk the sooner fan]

but what about those citizens between the ages of 18 and 21?

well it is a privilege

what about those citizens between 14 and 16 that feel like they should be able to drive? why do we exclude them from driving?

have you seen some of the 15 year olds these days? they're physically capable of doing it so why not?

if we can entrust 16 year olds with the right to drive a vehicle, cant we entrust them with the right to vote? why dont they have the privilege and right just like everybody else?

[sooner_born_1960]

I think the drinking age should be 47. and a half. It's really all about me.

[1stTimeCaller]

what if he checks on you and you arent doing anything wrong? it just means he exercised some oversight and supervision

right?

[jk the sooner fan]

that is what i said! :)

[Vaevictis]

what about those citizens between 14 and 16 that feel like they should be able to drive? why do we exclude them from driving?

have you seen some of the 15 year olds these days? they're physically capable of doing it so why not?

if we can entrust 16 year olds with the right to drive a vehicle, cant we entrust them with the right to vote? why dont they have the privilege and right just like everybody else?

Good set of questions. It really breaks it down for me.

In light of that, to simplify: If you can can be held responsible as an adult, then you should receive the rights and privileges of an adult.

[1stTimeCaller]

well it is a privilege

what about those citizens between 14 and 16 that feel like they should be able to drive? why do we exclude them from driving?

have you seen some of the 15 year olds these days? they're physically capable of doing it so why not?

if we can entrust 16 year olds with the right to drive a vehicle, cant we entrust them with the right to vote? why dont they have the privilege and right just like everybody else?


they aren't full fledged citizens. They are minors and cannot sign some contracts, cannot join the military, cannot vote in elections.

I'd argue that being as there was an Amendment prohiiting the consumption of alcohol and then another saying that we can consume alcohol that drinking is a right and not a privilege. That it's BS that the Federal government forces the states by witholding highway money if they don't do exactly what the Fed wants them to do.

[jk the sooner fan]

arent full fledged citizens?

really? dude, you're a full fledged citizen the day you are born into this world on american soil

well if you think the drinking age is unconstitutional, by all means take it up with the supreme court

[jk the sooner fan]

Good set of questions. It really breaks it down for me.

In light of that, to simplify: If you can can be held responsible as an adult, then you should receive the rights and privileges of an adult.

so using your logic, we should lower the age requirement to be president......because you know, if a person can be held responsible as an adult, that 35 year old age requirement is just stupid

[yermom]

arent full fledged citizens?

really? dude, you're a full fledged citizen the day you are born into this world on american soil

well if you think the drinking age is unconstitutional, by all means take it up with the supreme court

i honestly think someone should

[jk the sooner fan]

what percentage of all 18 year olds in the country actually exercise their right to vote? what percentage of them actually serve their country, rather than be a candy as$ whiny bitch that sits at college or on their mom and dads couch, complaining about the drinking age because they might be serving their country?

[RacerX]

208 posts because Adonis can't score with sober 18 year olds.

[jk the sooner fan]

heh :)

[JohnnyMack]

Good set of questions. It really breaks it down for me.

In light of that, to simplify: If you can can be held responsible as an adult, then you should receive the rights and privileges of an adult.

The problem was too many of those people who were held responsible as adults ended up getting plowed and killing a lot of people, their responsible selves included, so they lost that right.

I know way too many 18 year olds who shouldn't be allowed to drive, or shepherd rocks for that matter that I can assure you have absolutely no business being allowed to get liquored up.

[Vaevictis]

so using your logic, we should lower the age requirement to be president......because you know, if a person can be held responsible as an adult, that 35 year old age requirement is just stupid

Well... to put it in least inflammatory way possible: I think that if you're an adult in responsibilities, then you should be an adult in privileges.

But that doesn't necessarily mean I think we should lower any particular age limits, only that the age of majority should be the age of majority period. If we think someone's an adult at 18, then they should be an adult at 18. If it's 21, then it's 21. Or if it's 35, it's 35.

But don't hold someone responsible as an adult (responsibility being the key metric of what makes an adult) and then deny them the rights and privileges that other adults receive on the premise that they're not responsible enough to handle it.

Now, that said: If someone younger than 35 can actually win that election, why the hell not? I'm younger than 35, and I know I can do a better job than some of the asshats that have held the job.

[jk the sooner fan]

i'll bet

[OU Adonis]

208 posts because Adonis can't score with sober 18 year olds.

Damn straight. All I need is a 6 pack of zima and a girl just done with her senior prom.






















I kid.

[Vaevictis]

The problem was too many of those people who were held responsible as adults ended up getting plowed and killing a lot of people, their responsible selves included, so they lost that right.

I know way too many 18 year olds who shouldn't be allowed to drive, or shepherd rocks for that matter that I can assure you have absolutely no business being allowed to get liquored up.

I know lots folks over 21 that can't be trusted not to drink and drive. Should we raise the age limit further? Hell, if safety is the measure, if we were to re-enact prohibition entirely, I bet DUIs would go down. Should we do that?

[Vaevictis]

i'll bet

Come on, you can't think of one president who was so bad that you couldn't have done the job better when you were 34 years and 364 days old?

[OU Adonis]

http://www.indiana.edu/~engs/articles/cqoped.html


Research from the early 1980s until the present has shown a continuous decrease in drinking and driving related variables which has parallel the nation's, and also university students, decrease in per capita consumption. However, these declines started in 1980 before the national 1987 law which mandated states to have 21 year old alcohol purchase laws.

[royalfan5]

All I know is I drank more beer from 18 to 21 than I did from 21 to 24.

[JohnnyMack]

I know lots folks over 21 that can't be trusted not to drink and drive. Should we raise the age limit further? Hell, if safety is the measure, if we were to re-enact prohibition entirely, I bet DUIs would go down. Should we do that?

I don't know the answer to this, or have the stats in front of me, but what % of fatality DUI's involved 18 - 21 year olds before the law was changed to restrict buying to 21+ year olds? I'd be curious to see that.

[1stTimeCaller]

JK, I meant 'full fledged' in the sense that you are considered a minor until you turn 18 years old.

At 18 you can be locked up whereas at 17 your parents get called*. You can vote at 18 you can't at 17. You know what I meant.

*yes, I realize that 17 year old and younger can be locked up depending on the crime.

[1stTimeCaller]

what percentage of all 18 year olds in the country actually exercise their right to vote? what percentage of them actually serve their country, rather than be a candy as$ whiny bitch that sits at college or on their mom and dads couch, complaining about the drinking age because they might be serving their country?


methinks you rely on personal experience too much here. ;)

[jk the sooner fan]

All I know is I drank more beer from 18 to 21 than I did from 21 to 24.

exactly, i dont think most 18-21 year olds know that you CAN drink a beer, or just two.....and that you dont have to get smashed everytime you drink

i think most figure that out in their 20's



1tc - they migh be minors, but they're still full fledged citizens

and i know of some 14 year olds that are in jail because they've been ruled as adults because of the severity of their crime.......they should be allowed to drink too

[jk the sooner fan]

methinks you rely on personal experience too much here. ;)

isnt that what shapes most of our opinions?

its almost like when somebody says "you always think you're right"

well no sh*t sherlock, i dont make a habit of going around speaking because i think i'm wrong

[1stTimeCaller]

So basically we have a group of irresponsible, freedom-hating, old people that don't think 20 year olds should drink and we have a group of responsible freedom-loving young people that think they should.

Did I miss anything?

[royalfan5]

exactly, i dont think most 18-21 year olds know that you CAN drink a beer, or just two.....and that you dont have to get smashed everytime you drink

i think most figure that out in their 20's


An MIP counts the same if you drink 1 or 15, so you might as well be all in.

[Chuck Bao]

Hey, I'm freedom-loving old guy!

The new conservative prudes are far worse and much more dangerous than the liberal PC crowd.

Those busybodies won't stop until they drain every last pleasure out of life so everyone is as miserable as they are.

And, make prostitution legal and someone, please, send a police car around to check on that czar guy who keeps trying to bury their bodies.

[jk the sooner fan]

so im miserable


good to know....

[1stTimeCaller]

I need a nap

[Chuck Bao]

so you're a busybody? You like telling people what they can and cannot do? You think you're morally and ever other way superior and have the right to tell them about it?

And, you're not miserable?

Okay.

[RacerX]

:les:

[BlondeSoonerGirl]

Just tell me when...

[RacerX]

NO!!!

Not yet.

[C&CDean]

When.

[BlondeSoonerGirl]

:dean: *click* :dean:

[C&CDean]

No Chuck, we're not "just exchanging views." You are bad mouthing mature conservatives as people who would prevent anyone from having fun. jk is just being jk. Which means it's hanging by a thread time for this thread. Someone tell me why I shouldn't lock it down.

[BlondeSoonerGirl]

Want me to unlock it so you can get an answer?

[C&CDean]

Nah. These nimrods are probably already starting a new thread whining about the other thread that the mods locked. Good jorb on the lockdown. It. Was. Time.