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View Full Version : Approx. 55,000 of your fellow Okies pack heat daily



Okla-homey
7/1/2007, 07:47 AM
Must make it kinda skeery for would be rapists, muggers, purse-snatchers and car jackers.:D

We're walking among you in the mall, grocery stores, and sitting next to you in church, movies, restaurants and at our kids ballgames. One of us might even be in the cubicle next to yours at work.


Ten years later, officials say gun-carrying citizens responsible, deterring crime.

TULSA WORLD - If the number of concealed-handgun license holders is any indication, robbers may have to worry about getting more than stolen goods during a heist.

With an increasing number of state residents legally packing heat, more robbers may be taking away some hot lead.

More than 54,000 Oklahomans are licensed to carry concealed handguns under the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, said Jessica Brown, spokeswoman for the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation. That number is up from around 31,000 in 2000 and 15,081 in 1996, after the first year of licensing. Once approved, applicants are licensed to carry concealed weapons for five years. After five years, they are required to renew their application.

In the beginning, some people thought a wave of shootings by license holders would occur, but those fears have proved to be unfounded, Brown said.

"There's very little of that, quite frankly," she said. "Most people don't want to hurt each other."

Former state Sen. Frank Shurden, who sponsored the bill that led to the law, said he had tried to get the bill through the Legislature for several years but that fears of more shootings and of a more dangerous work environment for law enforcement officers held it back.

"They didn't have confidence in law-abiding citizens like I did, but they do now," said Shurden, a Democrat from Henryetta. "They claimed that every fender bender would be a shootout."

Shurden said he is pleased with the law's results more than 10 years after it went into effect.

"They (license holders) have to be good, upstanding people. That's one reason it worked so well," he said.

"I've always been of the opinion that when good, law-abiding citizens are armed, we're all safer. I'm real satisfied with the way the law is working."

Robert Welch, a Tulsa concealed-weapon license instructor, and Tulsa Police Officer Jason Willingham both noted that there have been instances in which a license holder has foiled a robbery or other crime.

Last November, a man who Tulsa police say had just committed a burglary, stolen a car and fled from police crashed the car and then accosted a bystander with a knife. The victim, a concealed-handgun license holder, pulled his weapon on the man, prompting him to flee.

In March 2006, a customer with a concealed-handgun license shot an armed man who was attempting to rob a supermarket near 91st Street and Memorial Drive.

This year in the Tulsa area, there have been three shootings -- one fatal -- by people who have concealed-carry licenses. Police say the two shootings in Tulsa were sparked by traffic altercations that became physical and ended with the license holders shooting people they said had physically assaulted them.

In the first shooting, which occurred at 18th Street and Boston Avenue in April, police say a motorist who had to stop for a pedestrian shot the pedestrian's friend during a resulting altercation. The man who was shot was treated at a hospital and released. The motorist was charged with recklessly handling a firearm and has pleaded not guilty.

On June 10, police say a retired security guard fatally shot a man during a road-rage-sparked confrontation in a parking lot in the 1900 block of Riverside Drive. The retired guard told police that he feared for his life when the other man verbally and physically assaulted him. He has not been charged with any crime.

In Muskogee last weekend, police said a pastor who holds a concealed-weapon license shot a man who, along with some juveniles, tried to rob his church's fireworks tent. The minister said he feared for his life and that of the teenager who was watching the tent with him.

The shooting victim was arrested in connection with the burglary attempt after he was released from the hospital, police said.

Willingham said that, in their duties, most police officers rarely come across concealed-handgun license holders.

"Most people who go through the trouble of getting a concealed-carry permit are not committing crimes," he said. "By and large, the people with concealed-carry permits are not the ones we're coming in contact with."

Welch agreed.

"Most goofballs and hot heads don't think to go and get a permit," he said. "Mostly, it's people who are law-abiding in nature."

Brown and Welch said increased exposure to terrorism, war and violent crime through the media may play a role in why more people are arming themselves.

During classes applicants must take before they can obtain a license, they must show that they know how to shoot and properly handle a firearm.

They also are instructed on how to tell a police officer -- should they come into contact with one -- that they have a concealed weapon.

"Do we worry? No," Willingham said. "We know people with concealed-carry permits are not the type of people out there committing crimes. Your gang-bangers, armed robbers -- they're not the ones going through the class and paying the fee."

Who is getting the licenses?

In 2006, the state approved nearly twice as many concealed-handgun licenses for people in Tulsa County as in Oklahoma County, according to the Self Defense Act Statistical Report, issued by the OSBI.

Among the increasing number of Oklahomans who are are obtaining licenses are more elderly people and women than in previous years.

“There’s been a great increase in elderly folks and ladies,” said Robert Welch, a concealed-handgun license instructor in Tulsa. “Before, it was about 90 percent middle-aged males. Now it’s at least 50 percent female and senior citizens.’’

SoonerBorn68
7/1/2007, 08:13 AM
...and if I ever get some time off the rig, I"ll be +1 to that total.

OUHOMER
7/1/2007, 08:16 AM
I need to do it too, I need to also get the wife one. It would be great way to spend time together, take some classes and go to the range

Jerk
7/1/2007, 09:46 AM
The way they wrote that June 10th incident at Riverside makes it sound like a minor traffic altercation. What really happened was a car load of 40 something year old drunks had blocked an old man's car in a parking lot, got him cornered, and were about to whip his arse.

rufnek05
7/1/2007, 10:05 AM
ok here's a good question for people with a CC. rail mounted flash light on your handgun, or just hand flash light?

Okieflyer
7/1/2007, 10:10 AM
What I love is the 7-11's that put the "No Guns" sign on their door. At least that way theives will have go to back out to their car and put it away first and get a bat or something.

yermom
7/1/2007, 12:05 PM
ok here's a good question for people with a CC. rail mounted flash light on your handgun, or just hand flash light?

i don't carry concealed, but i've thought about it

personally though, i use my flashlight enough that i'd rather not have it attached to my gun ;)


What I love is the 7-11's that put the "No Guns" sign on their door. At least that way theives will have go to back out to their car and put it away first and get a bat or something.

i think they probably just have the opinion that they'd rather the dude take all the money out of the register than have a firefight between the robber and a customer that's packing. i'm pretty sure the clerk is just supposed to hand over the cash.

i kinda have mixed feelings on this

Okla-homey
7/1/2007, 12:15 PM
ok here's a good question for people with a CC. rail mounted flash light on your handgun, or just hand flash light?

Hand held only. It requires a bit of practice, but its tactically more sound.

Also, there could be times when it might be handy to place the flashlight in one part of the room to draw the home invader's attention while drilling him from the other side of the room.

Also, rail mounted lights make it extremely difficult to wear the pistol.

SoonerInKCMO
7/1/2007, 12:36 PM
From 1997 to 2005, the violent crime rate in Oklahoma dropped by 9% (http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/okcrimn.htm). During the same period, the rate for the U.S. as a whole dropped by 45% (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/4meastab.htm)

Yeah, that concealed carry thing is a HUGE deterrent. :rolleyes:

Okla-homey
7/1/2007, 12:47 PM
From 1997 to 2005, the violent crime rate in Oklahoma dropped by 9% (http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/okcrimn.htm). During the same period, the rate for the U.S. as a whole dropped by 45% (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/4meastab.htm)

Yeah, that concealed carry thing is a HUGE deterrent. :rolleyes:

Dis you read the accompanying information? The federal figures you cite only reflect the violent crime reported to the FBI. I submit a great deal of violent crime does not get reported to the feds. That could explain the disparity between the Oklahoma and Federal figures and almost certainly means the Oklahoma figures cited are more accurate.

Okieflyer
7/1/2007, 12:58 PM
i think they probably just have the opinion that they'd rather the dude take all the money out of the register than have a firefight between the robber and a customer that's packing. i'm pretty sure the clerk is just supposed to hand over the cash.

i kinda have mixed feelings on this

I know what you mean.

But most, and I mean most, people even packing ones wouldn't pull a gun. They would be too scared. But I do think it would have been nice with the Stafford types that kill for no reason.

Okieflyer
7/1/2007, 01:02 PM
Yeah, that concealed carry thing is a HUGE deterrent. :rolleyes:

No disrespect intended, but I really don't care whether or not it deters anything. Law abiding people should be able to if they want.

Kind of like the death penalty. Don't care if deters one single crime. It's called justice, you know, an eye for an eye.

Jerk
7/1/2007, 01:46 PM
From 1997 to 2005, the violent crime rate in Oklahoma dropped by 9% (http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/okcrimn.htm). During the same period, the rate for the U.S. as a whole dropped by 45% (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/4meastab.htm)

Yeah, that concealed carry thing is a HUGE deterrent. :rolleyes:
Interesting!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a8/Rtc.gif

Vaevictis
7/1/2007, 02:12 PM
... and that map is why I laugh my *** off whenever someone goes off on a rant about what a bunch of liberal commie bastards Vermonters are.

Jerk
7/1/2007, 02:23 PM
... and that map is why I laugh my *** off whenever someone goes off on a rant about what a bunch of liberal commie bastards Vermonters are.

After watching Super Troopers I think they're a bunch of left-leaning, pot-smoking libertarians with guns.:eek:

yermom
7/1/2007, 02:25 PM
you left out the maple syrup

Vaevictis
7/1/2007, 02:27 PM
My understanding is that that would not be all that far from the truth.

There might be a lot of them that believe in communal property, but they probably don't believe in the government enforcing it :)

usmc-sooner
7/1/2007, 02:28 PM
Vermont is just not a manly sounding state name


States like Oklahoma, Texas, Montana those are man sounding states.

Jerk
7/1/2007, 02:29 PM
They're coming out with Super Troopers 2 in 2008.

I sh** you not!