Casualties map

[SleestakSooner]

http://www.icasualties.org/oif/images/US_City.jpeg

It's interesting to me that the majority of these are from what are considered "blue" states.

This map kinda brought home the reality to me. It is not easy to look at it without a pause to reflect on all the lives it represented.

[OUHOMER]

That is interesting, it like looking at the big picture

[Flagstaffsooner]

Population centers.

There's a dot in NE Arizona. Lori Piewesta. First Native American woman to die in service for her country.

[Okla-homey]

Looking at it, I think it may be slightly skewed by the fact some young troops list their first duty station as their home of record -- particularly if they're married and their wife lives with them offpost and they don't ever intend to move back where they come from. Thus, it is likely that there may be somewhat larger concentrations around major Army and Marine Corps installations than would otherwise exist.

[jk the sooner fan]

i disagree with that, your home of record is set when you enlist at the MEPS, and you cant change it until you re-enlist

[Okla-homey]

i disagree with that, your home of record is set when you enlist at the MEPS, and you cant change it until you re-enlist

I changed my home of record a couple times while I was in.

[jk the sooner fan]

you were an officer in the air force

its MUCH different for enlisted Army

[Harry Beanbag]

you were an officer in the air force

its MUCH different for enlisted Army


Same in the Navy, we were not allowed to change our home of record. My home of record was a crappy apartment in Sacramento that I've never seen again, but that is what is printed on my DD-214, misspelled and everything.

I would guess that a similar map of WW2, Korea, or Vietnam casualties would look basically the same. Population centers.

[SleestakSooner]

Looking at it, I think it may be slightly skewed by the fact some young troops list their first duty station as their home of record -- particularly if they're married and their wife lives with them offpost and they don't ever intend to move back where they come from. Thus, it is likely that there may be somewhat larger concentrations around major Army and Marine Corps installations than would otherwise exist.

Uhhh, you mean like the five in Lawton?:rolleyes:

[1stTimeCaller]

Uhhh, you mean like the five in Lawton?:rolleyes:

For Sill is a Field Artillery center, not infantry.

Looks like the Army Infantry posts (that I can think of) are represented on the map. Other than that it seems to be population centers like Flagstaff pointed out.

[King Crimson]

i'd guess it has to do with population density, more than anything. however, on Thursday's News Hour with Jim Lehrer, 3 of the 12 US casualties were from Oklahoma.

[jk the sooner fan]

i hate these threads

a little snippet from JK2's last email I got this morning:


i was on the roof of our COP pulling security, and we got hit by an RPG. scariest noise you can ever hear

[Okla-homey]

i hate these threads

a little snippet from JK2's last email I got this morning:

Not to make light of it, because its scary, but I'm sure proud our guys have good gear. I should think a near miss with an RPG would probably only result in getting sprayed with blowback from the wall it hit...you know, dirt, gravel and plaster, etc.

Wearing body armor, kevlar and eye protection, good to go.

[jk the sooner fan]

Not to make light of it, because its scary, but I'm sure proud our guys have good gear. I should think a near miss with an RPG would probably only result in getting sprayed with blowback from the wall it hit...you know, dirt, gravel and plaster, etc.

Wearing body armor, kevlar and eye protection, good to go.

yeah they got all of that (blowback), i just left the rest of it out

[Rogue]

Closed head injuries are a bigger deal than most know about. DoD and VA are trying harder now to identify "mild to moderate" traumatic brian injuries. IED blasts, RPGs, etc that don't leave visible damage are the major causes.

[Frozen Sooner]

i disagree with that, your home of record is set when you enlist at the MEPS, and you cant change it until you re-enlist

jk, you obviously have much more knowledge about this than I do, but I personally know people who got stationed at Ft. Richardson and changed their home of record to Alaska so they could receive a Permanent Fund Dividend every year-even if they were PCS'd somewhere else.

Then again, I'm not sure if they did that at reenlistment, but I sure didn't think they had.

[Frozen Sooner]

http://www.icasualties.org/oif/images/US_City.jpeg

It's interesting to me that the majority of these are from what are considered "blue" states.

This map kinda brought home the reality to me. It is not easy to look at it without a pause to reflect on all the lives it represented.

Unfortunately, those Alaska numbers have gone up significantly in the last two months. :(

[yermom]

Population centers.

There's a dot in NE Arizona. Lori Piewesta. First Native American woman to die in service for her country.

i went to a lecture for extra credit in my Anthro class that had her story as a prominent part of it.

i left wanting to choke someone

[jk the sooner fan]

jk, you obviously have much more knowledge about this than I do, but I personally know people who got stationed at Ft. Richardson and changed their home of record to Alaska so they could receive a Permanent Fund Dividend every year-even if they were PCS'd somewhere else.

Then again, I'm not sure if they did that at reenlistment, but I sure didn't think they had.

if they were in the army, they can only do it at re-enlistment

your HOR derives from your DD Form 2 which is whatever you put on your enlistment .......it can only be changed when you get a new one (i.e., re-enlistment)

and yes, i know several soldiers that changed their HOR to Alaska for that very reason

[yermom]

i know guys in the USAF that do that with Oregon so they get cheap car tags

sounds like the Alaska thing would be better :D

i always wondered how i saw Hawai'i tags around, i guess it might be the same sorta thing.

[Frozen Sooner]

Fair enough. Like I said-you obviously have more knowledge about it than I do.

The State started really cracking down on that a few years back, by the way. One of the application questions on the PFD form is whether you intend to return to Alaska if you're applying from outside the state-and if someone ends up not returning, they come after you for the money.

No, I'm not sure how they prove that there was no intent to return.

[Frozen Sooner]

i know guys in the USAF that do that with Oregon so they get cheap car tags

sounds like the Alaska thing would be better :D

i always wondered how i saw Hawai'i tags around, i guess it might be the same sorta thing.

Plus we get cheap car tags. And we don't have to pay sales tax in Washington state. :)

You probably see Hawaii tags around from Hawaiian students. I was very careful to maintain my Alaska residency while I was going to school at OU, so I kept my AK driver license and AK tags on my car.

[jk the sooner fan]

alot of soldiers do this same thing changing it to texas because of the no state income tax

[Frozen Sooner]

alot of soldiers do this same thing changing it to texas because of the no state income tax

Yeah, we get that too. :D

No sales tax. No income tax. Dividend payments from a fund set up from natural resource royalties.

I leeeeerrrrv me some oil companies.

[jk the sooner fan]

we dont have the "no sales tax" and dividend payments down here

just heavy/fast traffic and wimmens with fake boobs,

lots of em

[1stTimeCaller]

Yeah, we get that too. :D

No sales tax. No income tax. Dividend payments from a fund set up from natural resource royalties.

I leeeeerrrrv me some oil companies.
Does the amount from the dividend change each year or is it fixed? For some reason I thought someone told me it was $1,000 a year but then again, that was years ago.

[Frozen Sooner]

It changes based on the performance of the fund versus inflation and the total number of applicants. The formula is the five-year rolling average performance of the fund, minus administrative expense, minus inflation-proofing then divided by total number of eligible applicants.

Here's the history of the fund payouts:

2006 $1106.96
2005 $845.76
2004 $919.84
2003 $1107.56
2002 $1540.76
2001 $1850.28
2000 $1963.86
1999 $1769.84
1998 $1540.88
1997 $1296.54
1996 $1130.68
1995 $990.30
1994 $983.90
1993 $949.46
1992 $915.84
1991 $931.34
1990 $952.63
1989 $873.16
1988 $826.93
1987 $708.19
1986 $556.26
1985 $404.00
1984 $331.29
1983 $386.15
1982 $1000.00

Adjust those numbers by one year, by the way. We haven't received the 2006 dividend yet, we'll get that in October.

[SleestakSooner]

Death and taxes... it figures this thread would be dragged in this direction.

[Okla-homey]

if they were in the army, they can only do it at re-enlistment

your HOR derives from your DD Form 2 which is whatever you put on your enlistment .......it can only be changed when you get a new one (i.e., re-enlistment)

and yes, i know several soldiers that changed their HOR to Alaska for that very reason

I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. Your emegency data card can and should be changed anytime something changes in your life. I used to make my troopies review theirs before each deployment.

[jk the sooner fan]

I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. Your emegency data card can and should be changed anytime something changes in your life. I used to make my troopies review theirs before each deployment.

well, before i switched to MP/CID, i was a records puke for 6 years

i speak the truth

[Okla-homey]

well, before i switched to MP/CID, i was a records puke for 6 years

i speak the truth

So, are you saying your home of record is different from where they ship your remains and effects if you buy the farm? Serious question. Not trying quibble or anything.

[jk the sooner fan]

exactly, it can be different

for example, when i first enlisted, my father lived at a Plano address - that was my HOR - he moved out of Plano and the next time I re-enlisted, I changed it to his Dallas address

your record of emergency data - DD Form 93 is merely who you want notified when you buy the farm and who gets your death gratuities, it can change with the wind

when i was at fort hood, half the office wanted to change their HOR to Texas for tax purposes - the finance office wouldnt allow it


i'm not saying its logical, but it is the deal - at least in the Army

[Okla-homey]

exactly, it can be different

for example, when i first enlisted, my father lived at a Plano address - that was my HOR - he moved out of Plano and the next time I re-enlisted, I changed it to his Dallas address

your record of emergency data - DD Form 93 is merely who you want notified when you buy the farm and who gets your death gratuities, it can change with the wind

when i was at fort hood, half the office wanted to change their HOR to Texas for tax purposes - the finance office wouldnt allow it


i'm not saying its logical, but it is the deal - at least in the Army

That really kinda sucks for the troopies. Afterall, that is one benefit of being in the military that doesn't cost The Big Green Machine a dime to provide. Heck, if I were the Finance officer, I'd have pre-printed forms made up for the Joes to use for the purpose of changing their HOR to a state without income tax.

[jk the sooner fan]

i have no idea why the rule is the way it is, i'm sure it has something to do with state residency laws

i first enlisted in OKC, down at the Journal Records building - but my HOR was Plano, TX

[critical_phil]

i'm not saying its logical, but it is the deal - at least in the Army


and in the USN and USMC.


i knew a fair share of ne'er-do-wells during my time. it was always funny to see their faces when they got a bus ticket back to their HOR along with their OTH discharge.

[yermom]

and in the USN and USMC.


i knew a fair share of ne'er-do-wells during my time. it was always funny to see their faces when they got a bus ticket back to their HOR along with their OTH discharge.

i may be on to something with this Hawai'i thing

[Suerreal]

A couple of thoughts. . .

Regarding the concentration of dots around military installations - several reasons. Military service is a family things. Kids of active duty troops or retired troops living nearing a military installation are more likely than average to enter active duty. Also, JROTC programs around large installations tend to be large due to the enhanced opportunities to do hands on drills and training.

A person on active duty can have multiple homes.
1) Home of record. This is where you were when you entered active duty the first time. Unless you have a break in service, this NEVER changes. The only time this matters is when you get out. the Army will pay up to the cost of moving you to your home of record, and you are responsible for any excess cost. HOR = OKC, stationed at Ft. Sill, want to relocate to North Carolina? You're going to be paying for a good chunk of that move.

2) Legal residence. This is for purposes of state income tax and voting. There is much misinformation out there about changing your legal residence. The way I established Texas as my legal residence was by registering to vote in Texas, obtaining a Texas driver's license, writing a letter to whom it may concern stating that I had resided in Texas for 6 months and that it was my intention to become a legal resident of Texas, and taking all of the above and 6 months rent receipts to a notary.

BTW, the state you are shifting to will almost never ask for proof that you are a legal resident (Alaska excepted). It's the state you are leaving. If I ever moved back to Oklahoma, these documents will help me defend against any claim for back taxes from 1980 until the date I moved back to Oklahoma.

Finance clerks tend to be completely clueless about this and are absolutely the worst source of information. They tend to follow the "What's the least work for me?" policy pretty closely on this. From jk's posts, I gather that for enlisted, it's supposed to happen at re-enlistment, but I don't know why it should be that restricted. I had little trouble changing it after 6 months at Ft Sam.

3) Actual home/residence. Self-explanatory.

4) Family Member's residence. If the service member is on an unaccompanied tour.

As far as what happens to your remains, technically, the military is responsible only for shipping them to your home of record. However, in reality the Casualty Affairs office contacts the listed NOK and follows their instructions. I've never heard of a family incurring extra cost to have remains shipped to wherever family members direct, and can't imagine the military would want the bad PR that would follow. So the important thing to list on the DD 93 (Record of Emergency Data) is the correct people. Addresses are there solely to assist the military in contacting them.

- Sue

[jk the sooner fan]

when were you at Ft Sam?

[Suerreal]

1980-84.
Again for TDY (Officer Advanced Course) Jan-March 1995.

- Sue

[jk the sooner fan]

ohhhhhh, you're a medical officer

i retired there in 04, got there in 99

and i never had a break in service, but my HOR changed twice....once when i re-enlisted and when i switched from enlisted to WO

[Suerreal]

Well, I never re-enlisted, and I know that there are things that can be done at re-enlistment because it's kind of a break in service without a gap. I'd always been told that a Home of Record was what was on your initial active duty orders and couldn't be changed, but I think I heard that at OBC, so that may be the case for officers, but not for enlisted soldiers if they can change it at re-enlistment.

But home of record has nothing to do with legal residence which determine which state gets your taxes, or if your taxes are zero (as for Texas). That (in theory) you can change any time you've established yourself as a resident of the new state, but getting Finance to recognize that is a different matter...

- Sue

[OklahomaTuba]

Too bad our enemies don't have a map like this. Would be interesting to see where all those *******s are coming from.

[Frozen Sooner]

http://www.theodora.com/maps/new8/saudi_arabia_provinces.gif

[critical_phil]

you forgot that one guy from california.

[OklahomaTuba]

He changed his home of record on enlistment most likely.