Michael Moore, Patriot

[critical_phil]

:twinkies:


I'm a patriot, protests Moore
David Nason, New York correspondent
21jun07

HE is America's best-known left-wing agitator and for years his love of country has been under question, with the Bush administration and its supporters leading the charge.

But now documentary filmmaker Michael Moore says he has joined the mainstream and will no longer tolerate people branding him anti-American.


"Don't ever question my patriotism," a clean-shaven, besuited Moore bellowed at a questioner at New York's plush Regency Hotel on Park Avenue yesterday where he was promoting Sicko, a new documentary that tears the scab off the profit-driven US health system.


"I am a patriotic American. The most patriotic thing you can do is question your government, especially when they're screwing up like they are by not providing healthcare to our 9/11 rescue workers."


There was even a new, star-spangled element to Moore's trademark condemnation of President George W. Bush and the war in Iraq.


"It really is a good idea to let anyone know that if you're going to come and kill our people, we will put a boot in your ***," Moore said.


"Problem is we didn't put our boot in the *** of the people ... who killed our people. We went and put our boot into people (in Iraq) who had nothing to do with 9/11 and all we've done is show the world we're incapable of putting the boot anywhere. "What kind of message does that send to people trying to kill us? It says these people are pushovers. That's how unsafe we are now as a result of this Bush administration."


In Sicko, a hit at the recent Cannes Film Festival, Moore argues the case for a universal US healthcare system along the lines of those operating in Canada, Britain and Europe and is scathing about how the Bush administration has allowed the health insurance and pharmaceutical companies to dominate health policy.


But he saves his most damning criticism for Mr Bush's failure to provide proper healthcare for those who volunteered for duty at Ground Zero after the 9/11 terrorist attacks.


"When you see these people suffering and dying, those who ran down there and risked their lives (at Ground Zero), I'm ashamed of that as an American," Moore said.
"I believe the American people have had it with this broken healthcare industry and system and are just waiting for the moment to rise up and demand change. I hope this film helps provide the spark."


Moore conceded the political impact and commercial success of the film may have been compromised by a high-quality pirated version making its way on to the internet ahead of the US release date later this month.


Without mentioning them by name, he suggested police target their investigations at the healthcare "Axis of Evil" presented in his film - the Bush administration, Big Pharma and the health insurance industry.


"This was an inside job," he said. "Who has a vested interest in destroying the opening of this film? Who has a vested interest in ruining the opening weekend's box office of this movie?


"If I were the police or FBI investigating this felony, that's where I would look."


The film received a huge publicity boost when the US Treasury Department said it was investigating possible civil and criminal breaches of US law related to Moore's provocative trip to Cuba with three sick 9/11 rescue workers.


Moore said he was confident of his legal protections because Americans were allowed to travel to Cuba if they were journalists or undertaking journalistic endeavours.


"A documentary film is a work of journalism," Moore said. "No laws were broken.


"This is just an attempt by the Bush administration to use our federal agencies - as they have done in the past - to politically harass opponents, in this case me."

[critical_phil]

whenever i read that headline, all i can think of is:

http://z.about.com/d/animatedtv/1/0/4/T/fGuyPeterRush09_22_72.jpg

[SicEmBaylor]

A friend of mine and some other girl I don't know is in D.C. and apparently they had the premier or some major showing of Moore's "Sicko", anyway they decided to protest the event. They dressed as nurses and one sign said, "Now serving "3" of 4,355,223,174...Welcome to socialized medicine!" The other one, held by my friend, read "Moore just wants the free gastric bypass!"

That's gold.

[StoopTroup]

You mean Medicine isn't already socialized?

Have you been to an ER lately?

[AlbqSooner]

You mean Medicine isn't already socialized?

Have you been to an ER lately?
Medicine in the U.S. is currently socialized. However, it is not run by the government but by the insurance industry.

Michael Moore = White Al Sharpton - opportunist de jour.

[thenotman]

Is it not the duty of an American Patriot to question the government? I would bet this movie does not present a solution, thats the politicians job. Even in the Republican debates the candidates were proposing solutions to lower health care costs.

[soonerhubs]

Michael Moore, Patriot

Roseanne Barr, Fitness Model

[47straight]

Michael Moore advocated not going to Afghanistan at all. He doesn't want you to know that, though.

[VeeJay]

Moore is whiny. He seems a bit bitchy lately.

[OU4LIFE]

that's cause he's being unjustly persecuted man....

;)

[soonerhubs]

that's cause he's being unjustly persecuted man....

;)
:D Poor guy. He's just trying to help other Americans. How dare we think he's a money driven, tragedy exploiting profiteer? ;)

[CobraKai]

It has already been established that Hussein is one of the top 5 genocidal maniacs in modern history. Right? It is estimated that he slaughtered 200,000 people because of their race/religion. Certainly that should be grounds for his removal? If not, what were we doing in Germany, Bosnia, Somalia, etc. Before anyone jumps me, I'm admittedly not a historian, so I honestly don't know the differences between those situations. I just know that Saddam arguably killed considerably more people than Milosovic.

I'm not talking about whether or not we should still be there, because I don't know, but I think removing Saddam was justified, just like it was when we removed Hitler, Milosovic, and other genocidal maniacs.

[OU4LIFE]

I don't think anyone will argue that he needed to be taken out of power.

it was the guise of WMD's that they used as a reason that's the problem.

I have no problem with taking him out of power just for the good of the country, but I think it's time to finish up and come home.

[OU Adonis]

I don't think anyone will argue that he needed to be taken out of power.

it was the guise of WMD's that they used as a reason that's the problem.

I have no problem with taking him out of power just for the good of the country, but I think it's time to finish up and come home.

We must finish up before we leave though, in my opinion.

[OU4LIFE]

that's what I said. :)

[StoopTroup]

Hey Folks...

This Country has always had Carpetbaggers, Snake Oil Salesmen, Con-men who sell bibles...the list goes on and on....

Technology has now allowed many of them to reach the masses very inexpensively...

Although we may not like these folks...

You have to admire their continued success...

I can't remember who said it Barnum or Bailey....

"A Sucker is born every minute..."

Michael Moore is like a Circus IMO...

[Hatfield]

It has already been established that Hussein is one of the top 5 genocidal maniacs in modern history. Right? It is estimated that he slaughtered 200,000 people because of their race/religion. Certainly that should be grounds for his removal? If not, what were we doing in Germany, Bosnia, Somalia, etc. Before anyone jumps me, I'm admittedly not a historian, so I honestly don't know the differences between those situations. I just know that Saddam arguably killed considerably more people than Milosovic.

I'm not talking about whether or not we should still be there, because I don't know, but I think removing Saddam was justified, just like it was when we removed Hitler, Milosovic, and other genocidal maniacs.


you sure you are in the right thread?

[Hatfield]

i actually enjoy the fact that he brings issues to the table for the general populace to discuss.

i thought farenheit 9/11 would have been much much better had he let the story tell the story as I thought it could a little too preachy/assinine/childish when he would interject his opinion in certain areas.

love him or hate him at least he is talking about issues that we should all be examining. (notice that doesn't say going along with what he is saying)

[CobraKai]

you sure you are in the right thread?

I think so. I was just responding to this comment. I guess I should have quoted it.


There was even a new, star-spangled element to Moore's trademark condemnation of President George W. Bush and the war in Iraq.


"It really is a good idea to let anyone know that if you're going to come and kill our people, we will put a boot in your ***," Moore said.


"Problem is we didn't put our boot in the *** of the people ... who killed our people. We went and put our boot into people (in Iraq) who had nothing to do with 9/11 and all we've done is show the world we're incapable of putting the boot anywhere. "What kind of message does that send to people trying to kill us? It says these people are pushovers. That's how unsafe we are now as a result of this Bush administration."

[yermom]

so has anyone actually seen this movie?

i think he's an *** and uses sensationist emotion over facts, or logic.

but what does he actually say about healthcare? does anyone actually think we do it right?

[pergdaddy]

Both Hussein and Milosevic killed roughly the same amount of people, or allowed them to be killed. Big difference is we got to Milosevic as he was doing it. We got to Hussein well after he did it, I believe. More than anything, it was the timing. Not taking away that Saddam is now rotting in hell with Mao, Adolf, Josef and Slobodan, it just came too late.

[CobraKai]

I don't know if we do it right or wrong. What I do know (because I have several public sector clients) is that nobody on the globe could do it worse than the federal government, so whatever the solution is, they are not the ones to fix it. Talk about the most inefficient group of all time!

[def_lazer_fc]

i just like the idea of protesting a movie you hadn't even seen. :rolleyes:

[CobraKai]

Both Hussein and Milosevic killed roughly the same amount of people, or allowed them to be killed. Big difference is we got to Milosevic as he was doing it. We got to Hussein well after he did it, I believe. More than anything, it was the timing. Not taking away that Saddam is now rotting in hell with Mao, Adolf, Josef and Slobodan, it just came too late.

Makes sense. He should have been taken out earlier.

[CatfishSooner]

Michael Moore = lame.

[Vaevictis]

It's more that our justification for the invasion had absolutely nothing to do with Saddam's being a homicidal bastard. That's an after the fact revisionist justification set forth only after the original justification -- WMD -- turned out to be bull****. (or, if you believe the conspiracy theorists, at least unprovable.)

If Bush had successfully sold the war on Saddam being a homicidal bastard from the beginning, it wouldn't be an issue.

[def_lazer_fc]

If Bush had successfully sold the war on Saddam being a homicidal bastard from the beginning, it wouldn't be an issue.

also if he, and probably cheney more, were more upfront about the cost, both in lives and in dollars, and that it wouldn't be a little walk in the park, then this war would be supported a bit more too.

[soonerinabilene]

I have always said that Michael Moore is just a female version of Rosie O'Donnell.

[yermom]

also if he, and probably cheney more, were more upfront about the cost, both in lives and in dollars, and that it wouldn't be a little walk in the park, then this war would be supported a bit more too.

yeah, but then you might have seen how much $$$ Cheney was set up to make off all the Halliburton deals ;)

[Vaevictis]

We should remember that in cases where government is concerned, we should allow for the possibility that it is incompetence, rather than malign intentions, that lie at the root of any given problem ;)

[mdklatt]

i just like the idea of protesting a movie you hadn't even seen. :rolleyes:

Eh. Moore's schtick doesn't change, so if you thought all his other movies were protest-worthy, you're not going out on a limb by protesting this one a priori.

Of course, a sizeable number of people who say they hate Michael Moore movies have never seen one minute of a Michael Moore movie. That won't stop them from telling you exactly what the movies were about, though. :rolleyes:

[mdklatt]

We should remember that in cases where government is concerned, we should allow for the possibility that it is incompetence, rather than malign intentions, that lie at the root of any given problem ;)

Examples like Alberto Gonzales make this possibility harder and harder to accept. Malfeasance is actually the more comforting scenario.

[yermom]

i might buy the President's incompetence but not Rummy's or Cheney's

[CobraKai]

We should remember that in cases where government is concerned, we should allow for the possibility that it is incompetence, rather than malign intentions, that lie at the root of any given problem ;)

:)

Could not agree more. My mom is a big conspiracy theorist and thinks the Republicans are behind everything bad that ever happened ever. She claims that Lincoln was actually a democrat (since she can't argue that he was a good president). She really believes all of it. The most bizarre theories you can imagine. My mantra has always been that more times than not you should blame gross incompetence, cronyism, and laziness for most mess-ups. Saying that this was some huge pre-planned conspiracy is basically saying that GW Bush was a brilliant man and played us all. Option B is that he was playing quarters and watching Beavis and Butthead and just rubber stamped the whole thing. I'm going with option B. :)

[SicEmBaylor]

:)

Could not agree more. My mom is a big conspiracy theorist and thinks the Republicans are behind everything bad that ever happened ever. She claims that Lincoln was actually a democrat (since she can't argue that he was a good president). She really believes all of it. The most bizarre theories you can imagine. My mantra has always been that more times than not you should blame gross incompetence, cronyism, and laziness for most mess-ups. Saying that this was some huge pre-planned conspiracy is basically saying that GW Bush was a brilliant man and played us all. Option B is that he was playing quarters and watching Beavis and Butthead and just rubber stamped the whole thing. I'm going with option B. :)

Well, she's right about Lincoln. It's simply political fact that for the most part, the GOP of that time was extremely progressive/liberal. The political ideologies more or less completely flip-flopped with the exception of the GOP's support of business interests. In other words, were Lincoln alive today he'd most likely be a Democrat.

I detest Lincoln with ever fiber of my being, but the fact that he was definitely a liberal is undeniable.

[critical_phil]

I detest Lincoln with ever fiber of my being....


dear parents,


this is what happens when you foot the bill for your kid's college when he/she pursues a completely worthless major.


<3,

c_p

[Frozen Sooner]

:) She claims that Lincoln was actually a democrat (since she can't argue that he was a good president).

Didn't even have to say "Sic 'Em in 5..4..3..2.."

Trust me, there's people that'll argue that Lincoln wasn't a good president all day.

[CobraKai]

Well, she's right about Lincoln. It's simply political fact that for the most part, the GOP of that time was extremely progressive/liberal. The political ideologies more or less completely flip-flopped with the exception of the GOP's support of business interests. In other words, were Lincoln alive today he'd most likely be a Democrat.

I detest Lincoln with ever fiber of my being, but the fact that he was definitely a liberal is undeniable.

True in some ways. He was also a Bible thumper even by those standards, so in that sense he was notably conservative.

[dolemitesooner]

I will not read this thread

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I can't wait until our health care is run by the same federal government that brought us public housing and the New Orleans levee system.

[SicEmBaylor]

My dad has already said when Hillary socializes healthcare in a few years, he's only going to work 6 hours a week.

[AlbqSooner]

I can't remember who said it Barnum or Bailey....

"A Sucker is born every minute..."

Michael Moore is like a Circus IMO...
That would be P.T. Barnum

[critical_phil]

well i just watched it, so i'll feel free to comment.

it's a michael moore film, so what do you expect. i think i see where he's coming from, but i'll never agree with how he chooses to get his point across. there are some truths, more half-truths, a few lies, and plenty of hokey set-up shots.

the gitmo/cuba part was plain retarded.

[olevetonahill]

I had never heard of him before that Fahrenheit thing .
Ive saw maybe 2 pics of his fatass . So I dont say nothin much bad about him . I just aint gonna watch any of his **** !:cool:

[SCOUT]

I watched Roger and Me and Fahrenheit 9/11. Michael Moore makes "documentaries." His movies aren't actual documentaries but more commentaries on his subjects. He doesn't give a complete picture of the issues he presents (at least in the two movies I have seen).

If he were actually factual, I would give more credit. I think he could actually be a really good filmmaker if he weren't so obsessed with his political opinions.

[yermom]

i saw Roger and Me and parts of Bowling for Columbine

the thing with him taking the Columbine kid to K-Mart to return the bullets was pretty lame

[royalfan5]

Let's not kid ourselves here, Canadian Bacon is far and away the most truthful Michael Moore film.

[yermom]

that was Michael Moore?

[yermom]

wow, i had no idea

[royalfan5]

that was Michael Moore?
Yep, his only work of "fiction" to date.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Bacon_(film)

[def_lazer_fc]

The Big One was pretty funny too. but i can understand how some people hate him. i take all his films with a grain of salt, but that won't keep me from watching em and forming my own opinion. i'll never say i hate the guy, b/c at least someone's making you think about something. but what do i know, i'm just a dumb liberal. :(

[critical_phil]

it's more difficult to form an opinion when you're only shown one side.


btw, these links have been on/off.

http://meyepop.com/movies.php?mode=viewepisode&id=1215#

[CORNholio]

I can't wait until our health care is run by the same federal government that brought us public housing and the New Orleans levee system.

LOL. Seriously though.

Democrats=guys who think govt fixes things.

Republicans=guys who think govt f's things up.

If anybody seriously thinks govt run healthcare is the answer let them take a friendly visit to the free indian clinics. Cause they rock......not so much.
And those are run by small (tribal) govt's. Imagine how much more gloriously our beloved fed govt could find a way to run it into the ground.

[yermom]

more like:

Dims = don't realize gov't ****s things up

Pubz = thinks people should take care of themselves

[Vaevictis]

Pfft, more like:

Americans -- don't want the government involved in their business... except when they do, because then it's okay.

Applies equally to both parties.

[Rogue]

I'm gonna watch it soon. I actually agree with most of his premise that fat cat "Big Pharm" and too many middle men in HMO's and insurance groups have jacked up healthcare beyond anything that the gov't could do. If we're going to bureaucratize the system any more at least leave that to the professionals...the feds. I'm also the guy that goes to the VA by choice versus the private clinics down the street because the VA does a better job for me.