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View Full Version : I can't believe how bad the Cardinals are this year



royalfan5
6/14/2007, 09:08 PM
not that the Royals are great, but after four innings and two hours of play tonight, the score is 15-6, KC. I just don't understand how the Cardinals can't have scraped together something resembling a major league pitching staff, given as well run as the Franchise usually is. They are starting Royals bullpen rejects for ****'s sake.

AllAboutThe'O'
6/16/2007, 12:06 AM
Also, Kip Wells already has 11 losses on the season. That's what the Cards get for signing somebody whose last major-league team he hurled for was the pitching-rich Rangers.

TopDawg
6/18/2007, 05:05 PM
Why would I care about these teams any more than any other sub-.500 team and a cellar dwellar?

;)

royalfan5
6/18/2007, 05:21 PM
Why would I care about these teams any more than any other sub-.500 team and a cellar dwellar?

;)
Well one is the defending World Champion. It is unusual to go from the pinnacle to being absymal in less than a year.

Scott D
6/18/2007, 06:17 PM
Well one is the defending World Champion. It is unusual to go from the pinnacle to being absymal in less than a year.

not true, it happens in the NHL all of the time ;)

royalfan5
6/18/2007, 06:28 PM
not true, it happens in the NHL all of the time ;)
Not so much in baseball though.

Scott D
6/18/2007, 06:31 PM
well most teams don't decide to let half their pitching staff leave via free agency within a month of winning the world series either.

OSUAggie
6/19/2007, 08:33 AM
Except teams in South Florida.

royalfan5
6/19/2007, 06:43 PM
So the Cards have decided to start Brad Thompson on two days rest tonight instead of Kip Wells. That's pretty sad. At least going against Elarton they have a good chance to beat the Royals tonight. Although it might be a football score.

opksooner
6/19/2007, 09:27 PM
Woo hoo! They finally won one against my LAST PLACE Royals.

[/unimpressed] ;)

illinisooner
6/21/2007, 11:37 AM
Even more baffling than the Cards struggles (let's not forget, they only won 83 games last year) is the White Sox. Basically the same roster as the team that won 95 (I think) last year, and they're 10 games below .500! It's not like their key players have gotten old or injured the whole year, but everyone is hitting a solid 20 or 30 points below their average, without much power. Normally you'll see one or two guys on a team have subpar years (Like the Cards, with Rolen this year), but not the entire team. The pitching isn't amazing either, but it's not 10 games under .500 bad.

Collier11
6/21/2007, 11:55 AM
well most teams don't decide to let half their pitching staff leave via free agency within a month of winning the world series either.


True but look at a few facts,
Suppan was extremely overpaid though I would have paid to keep him
Weaver is about to be out of baseball for good, we certainly werent gonna pay boras $ for him
Marquis, had a decent year thus far but him and duncan couldnt get along
Carpenter and Mulder are hurt
We got outbid for Jason Schmidt but he is out for the season anyways

Our pitching does suck but there wasnt really much to go sign and our farm system is just now getting back to a decent talent level so we dont have much to offer without depleting it again

we are apparently going to make a play for Buerhle in the offseason and he apparently wants to be here, that would give us a potential rotation of Carp, buerhle, mulder, reyes, wainwright, not too shabby for next year

Also, we do play in the central so we still have a chance and that makes me :D

Collier11
6/21/2007, 11:56 AM
though not overly optimistic

Scott D
6/21/2007, 01:10 PM
Even more baffling than the Cards struggles (let's not forget, they only won 83 games last year) is the White Sox. Basically the same roster as the team that won 95 (I think) last year, and they're 10 games below .500! It's not like their key players have gotten old or injured the whole year, but everyone is hitting a solid 20 or 30 points below their average, without much power. Normally you'll see one or two guys on a team have subpar years (Like the Cards, with Rolen this year), but not the entire team. The pitching isn't amazing either, but it's not 10 games under .500 bad.

eh....

I would have kept El Duque instead of Contreras
I would have kept Garcia instead of Vazquez
Crede is out for the season (and may find it hard to get his job back next year from Josh Fields)
Dye and Erstad are banged up
Our bullpen is full of guys who throw around 100 mph but have trouble finding the strike zone, don't have good changeups, and outside of Jenks have questionable breaking balls.
How we can't find anyone better than Juan Uribe to play at shortstop is beyond me.

But when it comes down to it, this team misses Podsednik and Osuna more than anyone cares to admit. With no real baserunning threat it lets pitchers be more cautious with the big bats in the middle.

And Collier, just because he's from St. Louis doesn't give the Cards the inside track on Buehrle, unless we deal him in a fire sale near the deadline he's 80% likely to sign a new deal with the White Sox.

Collier11
6/21/2007, 03:30 PM
And Collier, just because he's from St. Louis doesn't give the Cards the inside track on Buehrle, unless we deal him in a fire sale near the deadline he's 80% likely to sign a new deal with the White Sox.

Im basing that off of the fact that He is from St.Louis, he has said several times that he would like to go back home, and from everything I have heard from the Cardinal people(reporters and broadcasters) he is only conceding possibly staying with the chisox so they will help him get the trade or deal that he wants...could be wrong, just what ive heard!

Scott D
6/21/2007, 03:32 PM
Im basing that off of the fact that He is from St.Louis, he has said several times that he would like to go back home, and from everything I have heard from the Cardinal people(reporters and broadcasters) he is only conceding possibly staying with the chisox so they will help him get the trade or deal that he wants...could be wrong, just what ive heard!

not slamming you, but most players will tell local papers that they'd love nothing more than to come home when they are a free agent. Very few of them actually follow through on it, even fewer actually do well when they do.

Collier11
6/21/2007, 04:41 PM
I can only hope, I think he would be a great NL pitcher, plus being able to be the #2 guy considering that Carp would be healthy and have mulder as #3, I would feel really good about our rotation next year. Unfortunately, I think jimmy ballgame may end up retiring which sucks cus I love watching that guy play

illinisooner
6/21/2007, 11:40 PM
eh....

I would have kept El Duque instead of Contreras
I would have kept Garcia instead of Vazquez
Crede is out for the season (and may find it hard to get his job back next year from Josh Fields)
Dye and Erstad are banged up
Our bullpen is full of guys who throw around 100 mph but have trouble finding the strike zone, don't have good changeups, and outside of Jenks have questionable breaking balls.
How we can't find anyone better than Juan Uribe to play at shortstop is beyond me.

But when it comes down to it, this team misses Podsednik and Osuna more than anyone cares to admit. With no real baserunning threat it lets pitchers be more cautious with the big bats in the middle.

And Collier, just because he's from St. Louis doesn't give the Cards the inside track on Buehrle, unless we deal him in a fire sale near the deadline he's 80% likely to sign a new deal with the White Sox.

Maybe I'm just spoiled from the '05 season, where everything went right and nothing went wrong (except September). Crede is a FA this offseason, so with Fields playing well, he's as good as gone. Dye and Buehrle will likely be traded, barring some miraculous comeback, but we're looking at another mini firesale, 10 years after the White Flag trade.

Some of Williams moves have baffled me, but always seem to work out. I remember when C Lee was traded I was real mad, same thing with McCarthy, but Pods helped win a WS and Danks has been better than McCarthy so far. As for Buehrle, if he's not on the south side in 2008, he will probably be a Cardinal. So basically, like you said, if he's not traded, Buehrle will stay with the Sox.

Scott D
6/22/2007, 11:27 AM
Maybe I'm just spoiled from the '05 season, where everything went right and nothing went wrong (except September). Crede is a FA this offseason, so with Fields playing well, he's as good as gone. Dye and Buehrle will likely be traded, barring some miraculous comeback, but we're looking at another mini firesale, 10 years after the White Flag trade.

Some of Williams moves have baffled me, but always seem to work out. I remember when C Lee was traded I was real mad, same thing with McCarthy, but Pods helped win a WS and Danks has been better than McCarthy so far. As for Buehrle, if he's not on the south side in 2008, he will probably be a Cardinal. So basically, like you said, if he's not traded, Buehrle will stay with the Sox.

Well the big thing in '05 compared to even last season, and especially this season has been the performance of the bullpen. 95% of the time, if we had a lead going into the 7th, 8th, 9th we won the game. This year, not even an 8 run lead can be considered safe with the bullpen the way it is.

I didn't mind the trading of Carlos Lee, he was like a poor man's version of Manny when we had him in that he was as likely to give up a run with his poor fielding as he was to get us one with his bat. But tradewise, I see the same pattern from Williams, he's stocking up again on young arms. Every year it seems like they're trying to recreate the the early 90s rotation, and it's not going to happen. That group was unique almost in the way the Braves rotation was unique back then. Oh, and our Collierstyle (sorry bud) rumor is that we're going to get Aaron Rowand back either via trade this year, or signing him as a FA during the offseason.

However, we do have one thing going for us....we're STILL not the Cubs :)

Collier11
6/22/2007, 01:04 PM
The Cards just picked up Maroth from the tigers, not a A-list pick-up but certainly better than Kip Wells. He should be a good pickup as a #4 or 5 guy once our rotation gets back in August. Hopefully we are still close to the brew crew by then.

Scott D
6/22/2007, 02:01 PM
That just answers who the Tigers felt was expendable with Rogers coming off of the DL.

Scott D
7/8/2007, 03:34 PM
bumping this to taunt Collier on the fact that the White Sox signed a 4 year extension today with Mark Buehrle...so no Buehrle for the Cards this year or next year :)

Collier11
7/8/2007, 05:21 PM
you ever think about the good ol sign and trade? sometimes teams wont trade for a guy unless he is signed long term. Thats not to say it will happen but dont get too excited yet ;)

Scott D
7/8/2007, 06:49 PM
yeah I'm pretty sure of that ;)


Buehrle said he didn't get a complete no-trade clause but there are provisions to compensate for that. His contract calls for $14 million in each of the four years. He has a no-trade provision in the first season. If he is traded during a window in the second or third seasons, the annual salary goes to $15 million that year and a fifth season is added, also at $15 million.

"My thinking was I wanted to be guaranteed I was going to be here for four years," the 28-year-old Buehrle said. "And there are some options put in there and some things that if I do get traded, stuff works out for me. ... Both sides had to give in."

Buehrle could have tested the free agent market but made it clear that he wanted to stay with the White Sox, although Saturday he said his chances of doing that were about 50-50. He also said he wanted to have his situation resolved quickly.