SI.com--Oklahoma has lost its luster

[The_Red_Patriot]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/stewart_mandel/06/13/cfb.mailbag/index.html

[fadada1]

good lord, what must they think of notre dame??







oh, it's notre dame. never mind.

[sendbaht]

Interesting, thanks for posting.....

Go Sooners!

[BASSooner]

He kind of does make a point. OUr X factor that we havn't had for years is a solid QB.

[OnlyOneOklahoma]

maybe we can gain that impregnable-factor back with our stable?

[CincySooner]

a great way to get that aura back is to step up and slug someone on national TV.

I see a perfect opportunity on October 6th :)

[opksooner]

I gotcher "luster" right here! [/Soprano]

We shut them up by winning it all with a QB they haven't heard of.


.....well, it's a slow day. :D

[OUMonster]

We played in three of the five national title games between '00 and '04 and actually had somewhere to go other than up?

We legitimately lost one regular season game last year and won the conference title and now we're swooning?

We actually have to replace a senior QB with someone with little or no experience?

Yep, sounds like the Blake years are right around the corner. :rolleyes:

[Jerk]

I hope Stoops will see this. It will light a fire under his arse.

[sooner518]

It's pretty simple: Before that game, the Sooners were considered a national title contender every year; now, they're not.

wow how profound of Mandel! 3 years in a row with absolutely ZERO QB experience will do that. It's not hard to understand. and when everyone thought Blomar was coming back last year, we were considered a national title contender. Idiotic article

[King Crimson]

moronic. Mandel is an idiot. passing "guru" Bill Callahan, what's Billy Boy's record against .500 teams at NU? record against top 25 teams? why isn't "love me I'm Bill" not coaching in Mandel's honey bear NFL?

just because we say things, do not make them so.

[King Crimson]

it's also funny how "consistently scrambling" means last year.

[zeke]

We played in three of the five national title games between '00 and '04 and actually had somewhere to go other than up?

We legitimately lost one regular season game last year and won the conference title and now we're swooning?

We actually have to replace a senior QB with someone with little or no experience?

Yep, sounds like the Blake years are right around the corner. :rolleyes:

I hear what you are saying and agree but I didn't read that as if Blake years are soon to come back to Norman. I think what the guy says is about right. OU, to my knowledge, has never produced a QB that did well in the NFL. (Troy Aikman really does not count) We melted against Kansas State, lost a close one to LSU and I dont know what happened against USC. I will never believe that they were that much better that we were that year. But it happened.
I see our problems as lack of a solid & consistant defense and an offense that is very predictable. Those things are soon to change.

WE ARE STILL THE OKLAHOMA SOONERS, and I see us being better than those sports writers think we are going to be. And I believe we WILL be back on top very very soon.

[XingTheRubicon]

USC/LSU/TX/FLA


How will we ever get back to the rarified air of "the super four."


LSU, Texas, and Florida combined have 5 conference championships since 2000. OU has 4 since 2000.



All 5 teams have ONE BCS National Championship trophy.

Most wins this decade - OU
Most BCS NC games - OU
Most BCS games - OU, USC (5)
Conference titles - USC (4.5), OU (4)




When you're Oklahoma, everyone expects you to be not just better, but decidedly better than everyone else.

It's pretty impressive when you're the gold standard/flagship/kaiser of your conference and rivaled by only one other school in the country (USC) for decade supremacy, and the masses cry out for that ever so elusive luster.

[Sooner in Tampa]

I read that article last night. Was it fun to read? Of course not...but he was not that far off. That loss to USC knocked us down a few notches, and we have failed to return to that level.
Florida, USC, and maybe even LSU would have beaten us last year...there is no shame in admitting that. We are not going to be a top 3 team every stinkin year.
There was also some truth to the QB argument. OU is NOT known as a place that produces NFL QB's. I would have the Heupels and Whites of the world, but we must recognize that they were GREAT Sooners...not even good NFL QB's. Of course, the same thing can be said for many schools.

The bottom line is this...we are a top 10 school year in and year out. We have an incredible pool of talent @ RB, OL, and WR. We sitting good @ QB (depth wise---talent wise is still up in the air) and our Defense will always be a force to be contended with. If we want the 'luster' back...it will have to be done on the field. This year has the possiblilty to be a GREAT year with all of the talent that is going to surround our QB and our Defense (LB's are a question at this point due to some injuries) will be fine.

Sometimes it nice to get smacked down a little bit...it makes the truly great ones want to bounce back and make amends for prior shortcomings...and I place my trust in Bob and his staff to make it happen.

[IronHorseSooner]

A better question is "why is he singling out OU?" Any time a writer-period- writes about anything, they have a motive behind that prose. Mandel has never been a fan of OU. He's not to the Pat Forde, Colin Cowherd, Lee Corso, Trev Alberts, Mark May, or Stupica level, but he is not far behind. Why would he say this? To downplay the advances that the Sooners are making and have made. It is true that we have had to use inexperienced QBs recently, but this happens with every program. Comparatively, we ARE the most successful program in recent history, that is a fact. The problem is that when we succeed, we succeed well (2000), when we fail, it is not just bad, it is newsworthy or controversial. We all know the examples:

1. lOSUr in 2001 and 2002
2. aTm in 2002
3. K-State in 2003
4. SUC in 2004
5. TCU, UCLA, TTECH, and UTerus in 2005
6. UO, BSU

In every one of those (save UCLA and UTerus in 2005), we were picked to win, and, in some cases, handily. Once you do that, the media will feed on you like sharks, and you have lost their luster, no matter the success. You hear that with the Yankees (now), the Chargers last year, and the Mavs this year. He likely is doing this because of the number of times it has happened to us. But, in general, he has not been a fan of us, even when we were beat the bejesus out of people.

[Oldnslo]

Hmmm. How odd.

I think SI has lost its luster. Once, it was the paragon of sporting news. Now, it must compete with ESPN and a host of print competitors who aren't handicapped by being at least a week out of date by the time they hit the mailbox.

[SteelClip49]

Howie Mandel and his filth column.

As long as Stoops is coaching, that is all that matters. He makes unknown players into stars during the season.

[htownsooner7]

Tremendous post Xing.

Mandel is an idiot. His point is that we don't have blue chippers at QB, yet defers to the incredible success of Heupel and White. Put 2 and 2 together, dumb@**. You don't need a blue chipper to compete or WIN a NC at OU. Different ballgame here.

[Taxman71]

What school does consistently produce quality NFL QB's these days, other than maybe USC as of late? Florida, FSU and Miami have alot enter the NFL, but few rise to the quality status (except the Kelly/Kosar/Testeverde of the 80's).

[Octavian]

http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i776742_BigXII.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.com)





Four different quarterbacks...

[The_Red_Patriot]

I think we recoverd from the USC loss already.

FSU still hasnt recovered from their loss to us.

As an FSU fan said, "we still havent recovered from that fumble"

[CincySooner]

A better question is "why is he singling out OU?" Any time a writer-period- writes about anything, they have a motive behind that prose.

easy there big fella.

While Mandel has been known to jump on OU's case from time to time, I dont think it applies here. He was just responding to a letter someone wrote in which the fan implied a lost luster

Granted he didnt have to pick that letter to respond to, but if it was the most compelling thing in his mailbag its not his fault.

Mandel is waaaaaay better at selecting semi-intelligent letters from his mailbag than oh... say... Dennis Dodd. Now THAT guy is an idiot!!!

[swardboy]

Brett Favre came from Southern Mississippi, Ben Roethlesburger from Miami, OH., Terry Bradshaw from Louisiana Tech, Johnny Unitas from the U. of Louisville (when it wasn't so hot), Roger Staubach from the Naval Academy...and on and on. The step from college to pro level quarterback is so unpredictable. I would have bet the house on Tim Couch from Kentucky, but where is he now?

Just find a kid who can be molded into the system....Steve Davis comes to mind.

[Beef]

Did some of y'all even read the article? As Cincy said, the questions were from readers. Legit questions, too. We haven't been in the top 3 of the BCS in 3 years. Legitimate to ask if OU is not thought of in the way they were 4 years ago. That's not badmouthing the program.

As far as QB goes, he didn't say that Keller went to Nebraska to win championships. He went there to work for a year under a coach that has coached QB's in the NFL. I would probably do the same if I were only going to be at a school for 1 season and had a shot at being a pro. Just like if I were a defensive player and needed to transfer for one year, OU would be my choice.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

What exactly is luster anyway?

I actually thought it was a good article, some errors, but good reasoning. I've always liked mandel's articles. Much better than any writers I've read in okla.

He's right, we get a good qb and we're right back in the hunt!!

[stoopified]

Personally I think Mandel sees seperation between his BIG 4 and the rest of college football that doesn;t exist.Evidence of this is apparent with UT losing 3 games last year while USC and LSU both lost 2 and both also had other close calls.UF was duh bomb last year but lets see if they can maintain their perch before exalting them. Its called PARITY Mandel.

[swardboy]

[/URL][URL="http://www.imagehosting.com"] http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i776742_BigXII.jpg (http://%5BURL=http://www.imagehosting.com%5D%20%5BIMG%5Dhttp://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i776742_BigXII.jpg%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5D)





Four different quarterbacks...

Hey, it just hit me....we broke the "every two year" rule for conference championships! Does that mean it's ok to win it every year now?

[soonerboy_odanorth]

Keith Nichol (#6-rated dual threat QB in the nation), who was pretty much coveted by the entire Big Tenleven, and Sam Bradford (#12-rated pro-style QB in the nation), who was recruited by Mike Leach at Texas Tech and if I'm not mistaken Larry Coker at QB factory Miami, will be very glad to know that they were not highly recruited.

Whew! Pressure's off guys! :rolleyes:

[TMcGee86]

I didn't think the article was that bad, but I agree, to dismiss the Bomar deal and ignore the fact that we basically had a new OL two years ago, is just foolish.

And texass has been known forever as a non QB producing school and all of the sudden VY shows up and they are one of the top four programs and a QB producer?

Somewhat ridiculous but definitely not the worst thing I have read.

[sooner518]

Keith Nichol (#6-rated dual threat QB in the nation), who was pretty much coveted by the entire Big Tenleven, and Sam Bradford (#12-rated pro-style QB in the nation), who was recruited by Mike Leach at Texas Tech and if I'm not mistaken Larry Coker at QB factory Miami, will be very glad to know that they were not highly recruited.

Whew! Pressure's off guys! :rolleyes:
not to mention Landry Jones, the #6 pro style QB in the nation according to Rivals. I mean, geez, we cant even get a top FIVE QB!!!!

Im sure Stoops is worrying every night how he is ever going to win another NC without this guy
http://www.trojanwire.com/football/images/JIMMYCLAUSEN.JPG

[OnlyOneOklahoma]

what i am confused with is that he is calling Florida a football dynasty with the likes of Texas, USC, etc. Correct me if I am wrong but Florida has only won 2 NC's, I would not call that a dynasty, now 7 NC's is something to talk about

[TheUnnamedSooner]

Hey, it just hit me....we broke the "every two year" rule for conference championships! Does that mean it's ok to win it every year now?

We did?

[soonerhubs]

I say be glad this article was written before the season starts. Write more. I would LOVE to see articles knocking our Sooners more every other day. Then put em all up as posters all over the dressing rooms and practice field. Lets gets some anger in their hearts and chips on their shoulders. In this case I feel the end would justify the means.

[insuranceman_22]

I'll have to be honest on this, we have lost a small bit of luster after the last 2 seasons. The beat down in Cali. was part of it, even though we didn't play well and they did, they were simply better than us. As for the last 2 years, well since Stoops' first season, we've had better records every year. Notice I said "small bit of luster" earlier, we were still the Big 12 Champions last year, no easy task to accomplish. We were also trying to groom offensive linemen during that stint, that should pay huge dividends this year and next. Overall the Sooners are a stronger unit than that last 2 yrs. and I believe we've got a legitimate shot to run the table to BCS time, then let the dust settle and see where we stand. The Whorens have McCoy, but we may have the answer to him this year in a solid secondary and a couple of DT that should be able to apply pressure up the middle. This (this season) is a great opportunity for us to polish up and restore our luster, we've got a chance to be a special team.

As for QB's, give me a Josh or Jason every year and I'll be a happy dude. No they didn't make it to NFL stardom, but they were exceptional players and classy guys.

[MichiganSooner]

First, the percentage of players who make it in the NFL or any other sport's major league, is extremely slim.

Michigan was known for a long time as a very good team that could not put a QB in the NFL. Then a string of them went: Elvis Grbac, Jim Harbaugh, Tom Brady are a few that come to mind. Did Bob Griese's boy make it?

All I want is another Glass Ball in the Switzer Center. As far as SI picking on OU, I guess that shows respect; after all there are 115 others they could written about; at least we are on their mind. Trust me, I have lived in lots of towns across America and they have all heard of the Oklahoma Sooners.

[soonerlaw]

The only thing I noticed is that before the MNC game v. USC, I felt we were going to crush every opponent we faced by 5 TDs, and we basically did. Since then, I haven't been as confident.

But, when you lose 13 guys to the NFL, you might need to rebuild a little... and we have done MUCH better in those "rebuilding" years than many other programs.

Mandel's USC/FL/TX/LSU quartet is laughable, at best. They each have their own flaws. And i'm sure Keller will follow that long list of nebraksa qb's right into the NFL.

[virginiasooner]

Geez, it's not even Independence Day yet, and already the Sooner bashing at SI has begun. Surely there are other, more important NCAA stories to cover, like Maurice Purify (and several other players at various programs) being suspended. Hey, maybe Notre Dame will finally rise from the dead and not embarrass themselves at Podunk State this fall. Hey, don't they owe us a return game? Or are they now too chicken to come to Norman?

[85Sooner]

sounds pretty on track if you ask me. course i don't drink cool aide

[Ash]

Who gives a **** what the QB does in the NFL as long as he wins as a Sooner?

[swardboy]

We did?

Sorry....I wanted to make the last one in '07.

Guess that'll happen this fall :D

[47straight]

**** you Sports Illustrated.

[Collier11]

A better question is "why is he singling out OU?" Any time a writer-period- writes about anything, they have a motive behind that prose. Mandel has never been a fan of OU. He's not to the Pat Forde, Colin Cowherd, Lee Corso, Trev Alberts, Mark May, or Stupica level, but he is not far behind. Why would he say this? To downplay the advances that the Sooners are making and have made. It is true that we have had to use inexperienced QBs recently, but this happens with every program. Comparatively, we ARE the most successful program in recent history, that is a fact. The problem is that when we succeed, we succeed well (2000), when we fail, it is not just bad, it is newsworthy or controversial. We all know the examples:

1. lOSUr in 2001 and 2002
2. aTm in 2002
3. K-State in 2003
4. SUC in 2004
5. TCU, UCLA, TTECH, and UTerus in 2005
6. UO, BSU

In every one of those (save UCLA and UTerus in 2005), we were picked to win, and, in some cases, handily. Once you do that, the media will feed on you like sharks, and you have lost their luster, no matter the success. You hear that with the Yankees (now), the Chargers last year, and the Mavs this year. He likely is doing this because of the number of times it has happened to us. But, in general, he has not been a fan of us, even when we were beat the bejesus out of people.


They were questions asked by fans how is that singling out? I am as big of a OU fan as the next guy but I didnt see anything unfair in what he said or how he said it?

[TheUnnamedSooner]

Who gives a **** what the QB does in the NFL as long as he wins as a Sooner?

Future QB recruits. Almost all recruits aspire to play in the NFL, and historically OU doesn't produce NFL caliber qb's.

[OU Adonis]

We just need to start winning the big games again and things will work itself out.

[boomersooner28]

Good article. Don't know bout you peeps, but I will take 11 wins and a Big 12 Championship every year...especially with a back-up QB. Last season was one of my favorite seasons as a Sooner ever. I loved every single moment of last year, except for the end of that Oregon debacle. We can't win the MNC EVERY year...I would be happy with one a decade. let everyone think we have fallen, I like to sneak up on people.

[IronSooner]

Last season was one of my favorite seasons as a Sooner ever. I loved every single moment of last year, except for the end of that Oregon debacle. We can't win the MNC EVERY year...I would be happy with one a decade. let everyone think we have fallen, I like to sneak up on people.

Glad someone enjoyed it. I hated nearly every moment of the Oregon and BSU games. I probably got a combined 3 minutes of joy from both of those. The only thing that makes me hate losing more than I normally do is losing when you shouldn't. During the Oregon game I didn't feel like either team really deserved to win. After the BSU game I was distraught not only that we lost to a beatable team, but that losing in spotlight games has been our hallmark the past few years and I'm sick of it.

I don't have any ire for Mandel, I agree with a lot of that. Overall I agree with Adonis. We need to just get back to winning those big games and the rest will work out.

[KantoSooner]

anyone else think that the 'luster' factor went out when our defense stopped mauling people? OU has been a very, very good team the last few years, no mistake. But the team has not made people afraid. Even when you can score fast, and a lot, it takes an intimidating defense to make the other guys want to stay in their locker room. And that's what Lehman, Bosworth, Selman, Strait and their ilk did to their opponents.
I'd like to thank Mandel for his little summertime puff piece. Screw him. And post it on every defensive player's locker. Bring back the 'House of Pain'.

[utex74]

a great way to get that aura back is to step up and slug someone on national TV.

I see a perfect opportunity on October 6th :)

You mean WE have your "aura"? :D But seriously, it's SI and it is the off season. Who gives a f***?

The season cannot get here soon enough.

[NS5]

I hope Stoops will see this. It will light a fire under his arse.

Your statement matches your board name.

[Collier11]

Your statement matches your board name.


Not exactly sure how you came to this conclusion? I do agree in the fact that I dont really think Stoops needs a fire lit under his arse but the rest...:confused:

[sooner518]

You mean WE have your "aura"? :D But seriously, it's SI and it is the off season. Who gives a f***?

The season cannot get here soon enough.
he probably meant that our own defense had the aura and our offense took it back when our scrimmage was on national TV a few months back.....

[MiccoMacey]

LSU, Texas, and Florida combined have 5 conference championships since 2000. OU has 4 since 2000.



All 5 teams have ONE BCS National Championship trophy.

Most wins this decade - OU
Most BCS NC games - OU
Most BCS games - OU, USC (5)
Conference titles - USC (4.5), OU (4)




When you're Oklahoma, everyone expects you to be not just better, but decidedly better than everyone else.

It's pretty impressive when you're the gold standard/flagship/kaiser of your conference and rivaled by only one other school in the country (USC) for decade supremacy, and the masses cry out for that ever so elusive luster.

Xing, my brother, I think you're making the case for him.

All those conference championships, the NC trophy each team has, and those other accomplishments you listed have primarily come from our 2000-2004 teams (although we did get a CC and BCS bid last year...but you get my point).

In the past two years, we lost 7 games. From 2000-2004, we lost a total of seven games.

There are a ton of reasons why we've "slid" a little, but there's not much arguing that we have slid.

[OKC-SLC]

Your statement matches your board name.
eat my spekhammer.

[oumartin]

hey, I hate to say it but really I am not that fired up about this year. Hopefully its just a funk I am in. All I know is OU has not won the games lately against equal opponents and I really don't see this trend changing anytime soon. I am as big of OU football fan as the next guy but I truly don't feel we can line up and just intimidate and kick the opponents a** like we should.

[FlatheadSooner]

Mandel's statements are fair from an Outsider's perspective - and I would guess the same for majority of Neutral-OU outsiders. You can't argue with the facts - and must occasionally tilt up the crimson shades.

That being said, I don't think he has adequately researched (understandably) the QB potential, nor given OU the respect due for supporting cast in terms of O-line and D-fense in general.

The one recurring common theme in OUr recent defeats has been lack of preparation for the BIG GAMES - and that is what really worries me the worst.
:confused:

[Octavian]

I enjoy reading Mandel's mailbag. He did make some good points and probably voiced the majority opinion. 2005 was definitely disappointing and not up to our standards...and '06 saw losses to Texas and Cinderella.


But he didn't take into account some atrocious luck we've run into either...Bomar's idiocy, AD's injury, Texas Tech, Oregon...yeah, OU's critics will just say those are excuses but Stoops and his staff have been forced to overcome a lot of obstacles the past two years that were doled out by the fates....stuff just beyond a coach's control.


But more than that, Mandel's response carried a tone of finality...as if the last chapter of the Stoops era has been written. It's as if he didn't acknowledge the natural peaks and valleys that programs go through.....even traditional superpowers under legendary coaches.


Bud and OU, Bear and Bama, Royal and Texas, Hayes and Ohio St., Paterno and Penn St., Switzer and OU, Osborne and Nebraska...none of them ran straight through and played for the national title every season for 15 straight years. That's not realistic.


Many of those coaches and programs had far worse stretches than what Stoops and OU have endured the last two seasons before they came back and won another National Championship. Hell, even Switzer (who has the best winning % of all those guys) had a 3 year stretch where his program went 23-12-1 ('81-'83) with no conference titles. Two years later he won his 3rd championship.


Bob's been here 8 seasons...if he stays as long as Bud or Barry, who thinks OU doesn't have a great chance to play in a couple more national championship games? He's 46. That's still pretty young.


And as far as losing our "presitge" goes....apparently nobody told the '08 recruiting class. We're loading back up for another couple title runs right now.


Anyways...the offseason needs to hurry up and end. We're giving way too much credence and attention to the passing of thoughts of Stewie Mandel.

[Pepper]

I think Jason White could have been a starting NFL quarterback had he not been injured.

[XingTheRubicon]

Xing, my brother, I think you're making the case for him.

All those conference championships, the NC trophy each team has, and those other accomplishments you listed have primarily come from our 2000-2004 teams (although we did get a CC and BCS bid last year...but you get my point).

In the past two years, we lost 7 games. From 2000-2004, we lost a total of seven games.

There are a ton of reasons why we've "slid" a little, but there's not much arguing that we have slid.


I agree with you. '05 and '06 is a not by any stretch our best 2 years of the decade. My point, however, is that all teams go through this. LSU has not won a SEC championship since 2003. FLA won their first SEC title in 6 years.

Texas went from winning the National title in 2005 to currently having the following winning streaks.

1. Home winning streak - 0
2. Road winning streak - 0
3. Big 12 winning streak - 0
4. Big 12 home winning streak - 0
5. Big 12 road winning streak - 0
6. Big 12 South winning streak - 0
7. Big 12 North winning streak - 0

UT then struggled to beat a 6-6 Iowa team in North Mexico.


Now, if OU would have lost @Mizzou or ATM or Aggy lite and UT went on to win the '06 Big 12....then I could see his point.


But putting a team that is the current conference champs with a Head Coach that has 4X the Big 12 rings of any other coach and Pre season top 3 to 10 in almost every rag as "losing it's luster" is reaching at best.



Stoops probably told him to write that anyway.

[goingoneight]

This infuriates me when it is brought up.

1. The game which we do not speak of. How many times does Sports Illustrated mention Nebraska's last MNC beatdown? How many times do they mention Notre Dame's post season losing streak? How many times do they mention the 2000 and 2003 RRS? They don't, because those were ONE GAME at the time, and the losers got over it and moved on. Why the hell do they think Oklahoma can't move on? Is USC that desperate for attention that they have their SI insiders bring up a bad OU game from almost three years ago? Are they that ****ed about the 2005 and 2006 season outcomes that they decide to pick on the last title contender they beat?

2. So what if OU's quarterbacks haven't panned out under Stoops. How many NFL star WR's do we have in the game? How about the defensive stars we have playing? What about Roy and Tommie's Pro Bowls?

Josh Heupel was undersized and lacked the physical characteristics of an NFL QB. No surprise there. His brilliance was his weapon. And that mind for the game will make him millions one day as a coach. Throw in the fact that he basically shattered his wrist in a camp if you're looking for excuses.

Nate Hybl is still on a roster, and he was a product of great talent surrounding him. He was a good college quarterback, get off his nuts. Not everyone makes the NFL.

Jason White? Are you serious? How many people rebound from back surgery, and two reconstructive kneee surgeries to even play, let alone win a Heisman and take your team into the BCS? Now you're demanding NFL? I'd LOVE to see Vince Young, Carson Palmer, Tom Brady, Michael Vick.. you name it-- play at the highest level after the hellacious injuries he suffered. Vick and Young wouldn't have a leg to stand on (literally) if their running game was ever tarnished.

Bomar and Thompson? Yet to be seen. Don't go throwing the backups into the conevrsation, either. I don't hear anyone talking about how Chance Mock and Major Applewhite are doing in the leauge, either.

[goingoneight]

anyone else think that the 'luster' factor went out when our defense stopped mauling people? OU has been a very, very good team the last few years, no mistake. But the team has not made people afraid. Even when you can score fast, and a lot, it takes an intimidating defense to make the other guys want to stay in their locker room. And that's what Lehman, Bosworth, Selman, Strait and their ilk did to their opponents.
I'd like to thank Mandel for his little summertime puff piece. Screw him. And post it on every defensive player's locker. Bring back the 'House of Pain'.

Nobody in college football would have had the balls to run those gadget plays against OUr 2000-2003 defenses. Just Sayin.' No one's intimidated by us anymore.

[47straight]

Sports Illustrated lost its luster after a decade - the 80s - of biased anti-OU covers.

[HTown77095]

Sports Illustrated lost its luster after a decade - the 80s - of biased anti-OU covers.

truest statement to date

[HTown77095]

Lets face it, we've been cursed with some flukes:

1) KS winning in big 12 championship--fluke
2) Orange bowl '04--fluke
3) Boise game--fluke

Is anyone else with me on this?

Where is the common denominator?

I think its lack of leadership on defense. Just my opinion...for what its worth...

[KantoSooner]

The flukes and bad breaks have impact,no doubt. And maybe there is a lack of leadership on the defense (whatever this 'leadership' is defined as).
To me it just hasn't seemed like the OU D demanded victory the last two or three.
And we haven't had the Roy Williams, Brian Bosworth type hitters who'd stand there over some poor b*st*rd fibrillating on the ground after having had his spinal column damaged, enjoying the feeling.
Or at least I haven't seen it.
Maybe this was what Stoops was trying to get through to the D during the spring drills when he was, apparently singling them out for rations of sh*t.

[Kray]

OU has lost its luster in the same manner that, say, Miami lost its in the last few years. If that kind of lost luster is what lots of teams would love to be. No college team maintains the kind of dominant presence we had in 2000-2003 for more than 3-4 years in this era of college football.

It could be done in the 1970's when the elite teams could stockpile the best talent 3-deep. But these days, being consistently top-10 is the standard, not being consistently top-3. We couldn't do it, Miami couldn't do it, Texas can't do it. Even USC, who is as close as it gets anymore, can't do it. He could have easily written this article about USC a year ago. He could have easily written it about Miami a couple of years back. The fact is, there are players at places like Texas Tech and OSU that we'd have had for depth 20 years ago, who can definitely play (don't lie to yourself - wouldn't you like to have either of OSU's top 2 QB's right now?), and who make it much harder to be dominant.

Speaking of the QB thing...well, there is a point there; we produced some very good college quarterbacks in the Stoops era, but have not produced NFL stars. Hybl had some success, but the rule has been that we haven't sent QB's to the NFL. Too bad that isn't the goal of a college football program. The goal is to produce college players. Paul was a more than adequate NCAA player, and won't ever take a pro snap.

Are we as fearsome as we were in 2000-2003? No. Did the embarrassment in Miami hurt? You bet. Will kids we recruit in some Texas high school care? Not a chance. Having an aura of invincibility is cool, but it don't matter to the coaches and players. Ask Miami how that goes.

A badass aura and $4 will still get you a coffee at Starbucks.

[Ash]

Future QB recruits. Almost all recruits aspire to play in the NFL, and historically OU doesn't produce NFL caliber qb's.

I understand that, but my point is this:
I care how a former college kid plays in the NFL when he lands on an NFL team I root for.

I care how a current college kid plays for OU right now, because I'm a Sooners fan. Whether or not he does well or not in the League doesn't make him better or worse as a Sooner.

So if Bradford, for example, led the Sooners to an MNC then never got a snap in the League...I don't care. He'd still be a great Sooner in my estimation. And leading OU to an MNC is what counts for OU IMO, and Mandel or anyone else could suck it.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

I understand that, but my point is this:
I care how a former college kid plays in the NFL when he lands on an NFL team I root for.

I care how a current college kid plays for OU right now, because I'm a Sooners fan. Whether or not he does well or not in the League doesn't make him better or worse as a Sooner.

So if Bradford, for example, led the Sooners to an MNC then never got a snap in the League...I don't care. He'd still be a great Sooner in my estimation. And leading OU to an MNC is what counts for OU IMO, and Mandel or anyone else could suck it.

You, me and almost all other Sooner fans agree, but it is something that hurts us in recruiting qb's. If you go outside of oklahoma, most kids aren't going to go to OU just to go to OU.

[Ash]

You, me and almost all other Sooner fans agree, but it is something that hurts us in recruiting qb's. If you go outside of oklahoma, most kids aren't going to go to OU just to go to OU.

I see where you are going, and I'd agree to some extent.

I'd also add that coaching ties to the League can mean a lot as well in terms of attracting kids that are likely pro prospects. However, it's all about the Ws and champeenships no matter what. If your National Championship QB ends up playing WR in the NFL, it's not that detrimental IMHO. Winning along with other factors will attract talent.

[SoonerRecon]

post this in the locker room and we'll see what happens on sept 8...

this is the year #8

[SoonerRecon]

lets not forget about chrissy simms. didn't win a damn thing in college, but he has played in the NFL, so what?

[85sooners]

:hot:

[snp]

You, me and almost all other Sooner fans agree, but it is something that hurts us in recruiting qb's. If you go outside of oklahoma, most kids aren't going to go to OU just to go to OU.

That's ridiculous. Rhett Bomar was one of the most talented HS QBs in the past few years and he decided to come here. Tommy Grady was very highly touted as well and he came to ou. No blue chipper was going to come here when Bomar looked to be at the helm for a few more years, so we didn't sign anyone for a bit.

Last year all the top notch QBs committed way early in the process and we had a late start. Signing Keith Nichol was a major feat. And we have also nabbed one of the better QBs for the 08 class.

QBs aren't afraid to come here, it's total BS.

[Collier11]

That's ridiculous. Rhett Bomar was one of the most talented HS QBs in the past few years and he decided to come here. Tommy Grady was very highly touted as well and he came to ou. No blue chipper was going to come here when Bomar looked to be at the helm for a few more years, so we didn't sign anyone for a bit.

Last year all the top notch QBs committed way early in the process and we had a late start. Signing Keith Nichol was a major feat. And we have also nabbed one of the better QBs for the 08 class.

QBs aren't afraid to come here, it's total BS.


AGREED! As usual, OU fans overreact about something somebody wrote somewhere

[TheUnnamedSooner]

AGREED! As usual, OU fans overreact about something somebody wrote somewhere

I wasn't overreacting. I was just trying to explain where the writer was coming from.

You're telling me that if you live in let's say arkansas and you're a top prospect, OU and ut are both equally recruiting you and had equal chance to play at both, you would choose OU? You may like stoops better, but :mack: will use chrissy and vy as examples of making it to the next level.... You're right, we've had some great qb's come through, but it is an obstacle the coaches have to overcome. That is where this writer is coming from.

[canes4ever]

Ah, what do they know. Playing QB in college and the NFL are night and day. I can name a dozen hot shot college QBs in recent years who did'nt do squat in the bigs. That includes one from my UM that threw TDs by the bunches,hardly ever tossed a INT,Had a 60-70 yard arm,poised,leader,won a NC but could'nt make it in the NFL.

I think it's Sept 8,we'll have a whale of a game. Can't wait,bring your A game,let's play hard and everybody stay injury free.

Go Canes!

[Collier11]

I wasn't overreacting. I was just trying to explain where the writer was coming from.

You're telling me that if you live in let's say arkansas and you're a top prospect, OU and ut are both equally recruiting you and had equal chance to play at both, you would choose OU? You may like stoops better, but :mack: will use chrissy and vy as examples of making it to the next level.... You're right, we've had some great qb's come through, but it is an obstacle the coaches have to overcome. That is where this writer is coming from.


IF JW hadnt torn up his knees some would say he would be in the nfl, If I am neutral on ou/tx I would go where I can win a natl title just like AD thought he could. It didnt work out for him but I would do what he did

[OKC-SLC]

nice work, XTR.

[snp]

I wasn't overreacting. I was just trying to explain where the writer was coming from.

You're telling me that if you live in let's say arkansas and you're a top prospect, OU and ut are both equally recruiting you and had equal chance to play at both,


Maybe you missed the part where I refuted that garbage because it's simply not true.

[Geekboy]

Why even listen to anything any of the magazines or any articles say anyway?

Most of the time they bring on a curse. What do you think most writers would have said if one predicted OU would win the NC in 2000?

Me being an LSU homer, what would most of them said if someone predicted LSU would have won the NC in 2003?

It's all speculation at best. There are way too many other factors that can't be calculated. Granted, Phil Steele has a pretty good track record but that is based on best case scenerios barring injuriies, screwed up officiating, position of the stars, etc.

There is talent galore among the top 15 teams and all have pretty decent coaches and assitant coaches, etc. There are too many intangibles that cannot possibly be scientifically calculated to predict the correct outcome.

We give way to much credence to writers opinions. As we all know....opinions are like a$$holes......everybody has one.

It doesn't matter. Team chemistry can't be measured. Team chemistry is one of the single most important non measureable statistics that brings into play a teams success.

Forget the so called 'expert' writers on the subject of college football. I say that if you're ranked in the top 15 you stand a good chance of winning it all depending on the unmeasureable intangibles!


I've re-read this before posting. Did any of this make any sense?

[Soonerfan1993]

If this is the case every other D1A team that dosen't bring home the trophy loses their luster every season. Texas has lost their luster, USC has lost their luster, Ohio State has lost their luster, Michigan has lost their luster, Mandell is a crack addict. Florida will lose their luster after they don't bring home the title this year. Mandell is a JOKE!

[TheUnnamedSooner]

Maybe you missed the part where I refuted that garbage because it's simply not true.

No, you're right. Maybe it seems that grady and bomar seems so long ago, but in reality it's not, with everything that happened, I forgot how highly recruited they were. Let's just win another mnc, and everything will be back to the way it's supposed to be.

[KingDavid]

This article is fantastic: fuel for the fire. We'll be thanking him towards the end of the season for keeping our team humble and motivated.

[47straight]

It's a new page in the thread, and another opportunity for me to say that Sports Illustrated likes to give sexual favors to Notre Dame.

[Collier11]

It's a new page in the thread, and another opportunity for me to say that Sports Illustrated likes to give sexual favors to Notre Dame.


and mack likes to give std's to players:D

[Geekboy]

Having gone back and reread the article......that could maybe be the dumbest most biased full of crap article I...HAVE....EVER....READ!

[KantoSooner]

Well, it may have been the worst article; but it is easily surpassed, in idiocy, by any sound that ever came from Dick Vitale's mouth.

[PLaw]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/stewart_mandel/06/13/cfb.mailbag/index.html

A couple of quick thoughts and missed points by the SI writer:

1) Huepel had elbow problems and by the seventh game (~ 300 pass attempts) of his two OU seasons his arm was pretty much used up for the rest of the year. Thanks to a great head and tenacious film work he was a coach on the field and was the team's leader.

2) Does anyboy remember Jason's knees? Joe Namath had better knees in his final NFL years than Jason did his junior year at OU.

3) To points 1 & 2 above, it's amazing that the team accomplished what they did considering the MASH unit required for these two.

4) Oh yeah, and a kid named Hybl stuck around for 2-3 years in the NFL after winning a Rose Bowl.

5) Two, Elite Eight recruits with less than stellar character and maturity are the reason for the current QB issues. Bomar should never have been given the starting job as RS-Fr. If Grady wasn't the guy, then he should not have been considered an Elite Eight QB. Clearly, anybody paying for the service from the guy who is picking the Elite Eight list should demand their money back.

6) Other than that, the article is pretty much spot on. Can't say enough about not being ready for games. It makes it awful tough on the offense when the Defense is spotting the oponent two TD's. The KSU Big XII Championship game was atrocious, the Sugar Bowl was respectable, but the OB with SUC is down right disgraceful. The only other OU coach that I can find that had half a hundred hung them was Blake - now how about the two B's - Bob and Blake??

BOOMER
PLaw

[MextheBulldog]

Hmmm. How odd.

I think SI has lost its luster. Once, it was the paragon of sporting news. Now, it must compete with ESPN and a host of print competitors who aren't handicapped by being at least a week out of date by the time they hit the mailbox.

*Genius*

[MextheBulldog]

We just need to start winning the big games again and things will work itself out.

Yeah, I think that's the central theme of the article. Bob always had Sooner Magic up until that voodoo night in 2003 at Arrowhead vs. the Mildcats. It's been downhill from there in big games. We're on a three game losing streak in BCS games...:cool: