Question(s) For The Scientists/Medical Peeps

[SoonerGirl06]

I was at work today researching information for Margellons Disease when I came across this article: www.dldewey.com/morgel.htm (http://www.dldewey.com/morgel.htm)

While I found most of it interesting the following quote really got my attention and I was curious if there is any basis to the concern the author has regarding the use of nano-virile protein bacteria eaters, or phages, that is sprayed on food (personally, I think there is, but I'd like your input). Also, is this a reason why it's becoming more and more difficult for antibiotics to be as effective as they once were, thus resulting in the need to create stronger antibiotics?

I'd appreciate any information and/or opinions you may have.

TIA



FDA APPROVED NEW VIRUS SPRAYS FOR FOODS - August, 2006

The FDA approved nano-virile protein bacteria eaters that work on deli meats and other ready-to-eat foods in August, 2006. Food manufacturers started spraying this new nanotechnology viruses on meats and vegetables in August 2006.

Intralytix Corporation, based in Baltimore, first petitioned the FDA in 2002 to allow the viruses to be used as an additive. It has since licensed the product to a multinational company, which is marketing the virus spray worldwide.

The viruses are known as bacteriophages, viruses that kill bacteria, or phages for short. Phages have been around a long time, living as parasites inside many bacteria.

Intralytix uses biotechnology to grow viral phages in a culture with Listeria, in theory teaching the viruses to recognize the bacteria. The FDA-approved cocktail contains six different viruses intended to attack on strain of bacteria.

This mixture is then sprayed on food. If Listeria is present in the food, the bacteria will ingest the viruses. This results in massive viral replication inside the bacteria, until such point as the bacteria simply bursts. This battle results in significant production of bacterial poisons called "endotoxins", as the bacteria tries to defend itself. When the bacteria burst, these endotoxins are released. These, along with the victorious live viruses, will now be on the food that will be eaten, ingested into the human body.

The stated goal of the new FDA-approved viruses is to kill a rare bacterium known as Listeria monocytogenes. This bacterium is killed by cooking, however it poses a problem in meats that are cooked during processing and not cooked again prior to consumption, so it can readily infect foods such as deli meats.

The FDA and Intralytix would like us to believe that these viruses will only attack the specified bacteria they are intended to kill and will be harmless to humans. Viruses such as HIV recognize human cells such a T-Cells and Natural Killer cells. The HIV virus attacks and destroys these human cells. Therfore, this new spray-on virus can potentially recognize normal bacterial cells in the human digestive tract and may be able to adapt to infect one or more of these friendly bacteria in the human colon.

The human immune system reacts directly to viral phages. Someone who eats a lot of processd deli meat is certain to envoke an immune reaction to the viruses. What will this reaction be? Allergy? Asthma? Autoimmunity? Morgellons? Cancer? How can the FDA approve a food additive that it knows can induce a variety of human immune responses? Phages, such as this viral spray are equipped to disrupt normal immunity that are being considered for use as part of organ transplant medicine. What are these people thinking inventing these things?

[slickdawg]

I'd have to agree with that - anyone with autoimmune disorders (arthritis, lupus, etc) could be at risk, those with AIDS and other severe immune disorders might have more serious consequences.

[Scott D]

I was at work today researching information for Margellons Disease when I came across this article: www.dldewey.com/morgel.htm (http://www.dldewey.com/morgel.htm)

While I found most of it interesting the following quote really got my attention and I was curious if there is any basis to the concern the author has regarding the use of nano-virile protein bacteria eaters, or phages, that is sprayed on food (personally, I think there is, but I'd like your input). Also, is this a reason why it's becoming more and more difficult for antibiotics to be as effective as they once were, thus resulting in the need to create stronger antibiotics?

I'd appreciate any information and/or opinions you may have.

TIA

bacteria and viruses evolve like everything else.. evolution at it's core is just a series of mutations that change a living organism to in the case of the viruses they become more resistant strains in regards to our tendency to overuse antibiotics and sprays to kill that kind of stuff.

[SoonerGirl06]

I agree with both of you, but wouldn't it be safer/healthier to just "re-cook" the food after processing and spraying it and not have any of the viruses remaining or does the benefit of all of this outweigh the risks mutating the bacteria?


Also, I would think that we would want to build up our immunities "naturally" in order to fight off diseases rather that resort to all this nano-technology mumbo jumbo.

[critical_phil]

i read a lot of michael crichton; so i know that no matter how bad scientist screw us over, someone will save us in the end.

[BajaOklahoma]

Since one of the distinguishing characterists of a virus is its ability to mutate & survive, this is very scary. Especially since antivirals are not as effective as one would wish. Interesting.

[OKC-SLC]

SG, I am in the medical profession, and I am here to tell you that I am scared to death by antibiotic resistance; I'm serious.

Here's simply how it works: You first must know that every part of your body, your house, your car, your workplace is covered with bacteria. The vast majority of these cause you no harm. In fact, many are helpful for physiologic function. Let's use the oropharynx (throat) as an example. There are numerous different bacteria living there every day. Some of them will, by chance, have developed mutations in their structure which allow them to be resistant to certain antibiotic(s). Let's use penicillin as an example, and let's use streptococcus as the example bacteria. Let's also say that 5% of these strep are by chance resistant to penicillin.

Now, let's say you get a sore throat and a cough for a day or 2. You think, "hey, I need antibiotics--I think I've got strep throat", so you go to your dr. Over 90% of non serious upper respiratory/sinus infections are viral. This means that they are NOT caused by bacteria and will NOT respond to antibiotics. However, if penicillin is started by your doctor, it will kill, say, 90 of the 95% of the strep which is sensitive to penicillin. Now what's in your throat? Much less strep (for now), but HALF of it is resistent to penicillin (the original 5% of resistant plus the leftover 5% sensitive strain). You'll recolonize a lot of the original sensitive stuff, but at the end of the day, a greater portion of the strep in your throat will be resistant to penicillin, and these mutations are passed down to their progeny. What if this happens again later in the fall? More than once?

Same thing can be said about antibacterial soap, using very strong antibiotics for mild bacterial infections, and using antibiotics for longer than they should be, etc.

We are seeing bacteria in the community which used to only be seen in hospitalized patients, and a big reason for this is antibiotic resistance.

[Scott D]

the primary problem related to what SLC said is the fact that as a society we tend to rely TOO MUCH on antibiotics (pills/liquid) when we have the slightest sniffle/cough. That's done nothing but accellerate the mutation of the virii and bacteria.

essentially, we're being screwed by that which we are led to believe makes us better.

[SoonerGirl06]

SG, I am in the medical profession, and I am here to tell you that I am scared to death by antibiotic resistance; I'm serious.

Here's simply how it works: You first must know that every part of your body, your house, your car, your workplace is covered with bacteria. The vast majority of these cause you no harm. In fact, many are helpful for physiologic function. Let's use the oropharynx (throat) as an example. There are numerous different bacteria living there every day. Some of them will, by chance, have developed mutations in their structure which allow them to be resistant to certain antibiotic(s). Let's use penicillin as an example, and let's use streptococcus as the example bacteria. Let's also say that 5% of these strep are by chance resistant to penicillin.

Now, let's say you get a sore throat and a cough for a day or 2. You think, "hey, I need antibiotics--I think I've got strep throat", so you go to your dr. Over 90% of non serious upper respiratory/sinus infections are viral. This means that they are NOT caused by bacteria and will NOT respond to antibiotics. However, if penicillin is started by your doctor, it will kill, say, 90 of the 95% of the strep which is sensitive to penicillin. Now what's in your throat? Much less strep (for now), but HALF of it is resistent to penicillin (the original 5% of resistant plus the leftover 5% sensitive strain). You'll recolonize a lot of the original sensitive stuff, but at the end of the day, a greater portion of the strep in your throat will be resistant to penicillin, and these mutations are passed down to their progeny. What if this happens again later in the fall? More than once?

Same thing can be said about antibacterial soap, using very strong antibiotics for mild bacterial infections, and using antibiotics for longer than they should be, etc.

We are seeing bacteria in the community which used to only be seen in hospitalized patients, and a big reason for this is antibiotic resistance.

I TOTALLY agree with everything you've said. The heavy marketing of antibacterial soaps, cleaners, etc on top of introducing live viruses into our foods has me greatly concerned as well. The majority of the public don't realize the reprocussions of all of this (not to turn this into a political thing... ) but unfortunately I'm afraid that the terrorists do.

[OKC-SLC]

the primary problem related to what SLC said is the fact that as a society we tend to rely TOO MUCH on antibiotics (pills/liquid) when we have the slightest sniffle/cough.
This is a big part of the problem. And too many drs. are either too ignorant or give in when their patients come in telling them how they need antibiotics for their sniffles.

Truth is, you get a cold and it gets better in a few days on its own.

Or you can take antibiotics and it gets better in a few days--and you will be convinced the antibiotics are why you are better.

[Scott D]

or you can up the vitamin C and zinc levels to boost your immune system without ever seeing the doctor. I mean, there must be a reason we have immune systems ;)

[OUstudent4life]

quick note = bacteriophages, or "phages," may be the next great thing in medicine. these suckers have been evolving for millions of years to be incredibly specific to bacteria, NOT eukaryotes (read = multicellular organisms...pretty much us). Our viruses = nasty little glob-looking things, generally somewhat spherical. Bacteriophage = those huge, spidery, alien looking things with "legs" and the microscopic equivalent of a hypoderimic needle.

Anyway, other countries have been testing these things for a long time, and the US is just starting to catch up. Russia in particular, since they only had penicillin for so long...pretty much EVERYTHING over there is resistant now. So they've pumped a lot of money into phage resesarch. An interesting study from a South American country (can't remember which) demonstrated a huge decrease in major diarrhea in children given phage versus placebo (diarrhea = major killer of kids in underdeveloped countries).

Yeah, there are risks, but antibiotics have only been around a couple of years on the big time scale and bacteria are already becoming resistant. Phage - really old, little to no harm to humans, still kicking bacteria's arse. There may be risk, but we've got to start working with it ASAP.

PS - Most of this is repetative of a seminar i went to on bioterrorism...two months ago, so my recall of the exact facts may be limited.

[OUstudent4life]

The human immune system reacts directly to viral phages. Someone who eats a lot of processd deli meat is certain to envoke an immune reaction to the viruses. What will this reaction be? Allergy? Asthma? Autoimmunity? Morgellons? Cancer? How can the FDA approve a food additive that it knows can induce a variety of human immune responses? Phages, such as this viral spray are equipped to disrupt normal immunity that are being considered for use as part of organ transplant medicine. What are these people thinking inventing these things?

That's needlessly inflammatory. Of COURSE there are risks. Why do you think stuff gets tested? You know what? If you're eating a LOT of processed deli meat and worried about this, you'd better NEVER eat ANY sugar substitute (cancer) or ANY charcoal barbequed meats (throat cancer).

And HIV and phage = COMPLETELY DIFFERENT VIRUSES. Gah. It drives me CRAZY when people who don't understand what they're talking about try to make an argument and use random unrelated facts to bolster their side.

[OUDoc]

I was at work today researching information for Margellons Disease
Hasn't this been disproven yet? I haven't looked it up recently, but what was online a year ago was highly suspicious.

[OKC-SLC]

Hasn't this been disproven yet? I haven't looked it up recently, but what was online a year ago was highly suspicious.
is it the thing where people itch and think there are fibers or bugs or something under their skin?

[OUDoc]

Yes.

[SoonerGirl06]

Hasn't this been disproven yet? I haven't looked it up recently, but what was online a year ago was highly suspicious.

All depends on which website you visit. World Net Daily reported on it in January. It's mostly been given a diagnosis of delusional parasitosis. Now they're thinking it's coming up from Mexico.

The only reason I was researching Morgellons is because we have a patient coming in who claims she had Morgellons Disease and wanted to obtain further information. It should be an interesting office visit. I'm curious to "see" it first hand.

[sooneron]

I thought you were ultra neo con. Shouldn't God be taking care of any antibiotics for you?

[OCUDad]

Heh. When I saw the word "nano-virile," I thought immediately of SicEm.

Carry on.

[SoonerGirl06]

I thought you were ultra neo con. Shouldn't God be taking care of any antibiotics for you?

Are you referring to me?

If so, then... yeah, I'm not big on antibiotics unless they're ABSOLUTELY necessary.

What made you make that comment? :confused:

[Mongo]

Are you referring to me?

If so, then... yeah, I'm not big on antibiotics unless they're ABSOLUTELY necessary.

What made you make that comment? :confused:

Dont worry about him, he is just angry he has a pink phone:D

[SoonerGirl06]

Dont worry about him, he is just angry he has a pink phone:D

You mean the kind with all the fuzzy feathers?

Well... that TOTALLY explains it.