Shut CAIR and those like them down

[BU BEAR]

http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/32

June 4, 2007 update: Federal prosecutors have named CAIR and two other Islamic organizations, the Islamic Society of North America and the North American Islamic Trust, as "unindicted co-conspirators" in a criminal conspiracy to support Hamas, a designated terrorist group.

In a filing on May 29, prosecutors described CAIR as one of 53 "individuals/entities that are/were members of the U.S. Muslim Brotherhood's Palestine Committee and/or its organizations." They listed ISNA and NAIT as two of seven "entities who are and/or were members of the U.S. Muslim Brotherhood." Josh Gerstein of The New York Sun reports that spokesmen for CAIR did not respond to requests for comment.

[Petro-Sooner]

Racist.

[Widescreen]

CAIR won't care for this much. I suspect the accusations of racism and xenophobia will be forthcoming. Petro's already started the ball rolling. ;)

[BU BEAR]

Racist.

I prefer "religious bigot" since my prejudice is based on a rational suspicion of most things Muslim. I can distinguish between Arab and Muslim as not all Arabs are Muslim and not all Muslims are Arab. Hopefully, this will help folks keep their invectives correctly divided between race and religion.

[Petro-Sooner]

I was just bustin your chops man.

;)

But I can see them pulling the race thing out.

[BU BEAR]

I was just bustin your chops man.

;)

But I can see them pulling the race thing out.

I realized later that you were probably being facetious and modified my response to not be personal.

:texan:

[SicEmBaylor]

I realized later that you were probably being facetious and modified my response to not be personal.

:texan:
PG is going to neg you for this!

Anyway, I'm not sure the government can just shut CAIR and similar organizations down, but they can freeze their assets I believe.

[BU BEAR]

PG is going to neg you for this!

Anyway, I'm not sure the government can just shut CAIR and similar organizations down, but they can freeze their assets I believe.

If CAIR is funding Hamas; the government can shut them down. The Holy Land Foundation in Richardson, Texas can tell you all about the process since they were shut down for funding groups on the State Department's List of Terrorist Organizations.

[Mongo]

I still say BU Bear is SicEm's troll handle, which is sad, cause his troll gets more respect:D

[Petro-Sooner]

Now if that were true it would be funny. Sicem having a conversation with himself. HAH

[Widescreen]

Or better yet, Sicem arguing with himself about the ability of the government to shut down terrorist front groups.:pop:

[Frozen Sooner]

If the allegation is proven, then yeah, shut 'em down.

A "rational" distrust of all things Muslim? :rolleyes:

[soonerhubs]

I thought this thread was about distrust towards Sicem. ;)

[BU BEAR]

If the allegation is proven, then yeah, shut 'em down.

A "rational" distrust of all things Muslim? :rolleyes:

I said "a rational SUSPICION of MOST things muslim". Feel free to whack away at your strawman.

Even our leftist Senator, Schmuck Schumer notes that CAIR has ties to terrorism.

"We know {CAIR} has ties to terrorism" "intimate links with Hamas"-- Senator Schumer, September 2003, Senate subcommittee on terrorism, technology and homeland security

Here is a website that builds the case against CAIR. CAIR sued the webmaster for a defamation related tort, but when he started requesting materials from CAIR in discovery; they dropped the matter with no payment from him.

http://www.anti-cair-net.org/

[Frozen Sooner]

My apologies for my misread of your post. My point still stands.

[BU BEAR]

My apologies for my misread of your post. My point still stands.

Which is?????? That you misread posts?

[Frozen Sooner]

No. But you knew that.

I have a rational belief that most things from Baylor are effete cigar-smoking wannabes though.

[Widescreen]

No. But you knew that.

I have a rational belief that most things from Baylor are effete cigar-smoking wannabes though.
I'm glad you said "most". My wife doesn't smoke cigars. Although a case could be made that she's a wannabe.

[BU BEAR]

No. But you knew that.

We have , "if it the allegations are proven then shut them down." That is stating the obvious that the allegations must be proven. It is the way our justice system works.

All I have left is the little eye roller icon. What is that supposed to mean? No wait. Let me guess. I some sort of "...-ist". That is your point... that I am an "-ist".

[BU BEAR]

No. But you knew that.

I have a rational belief that most things from Baylor are effete cigar-smoking wannabes though.

I am sure you can do better than that.

[Frozen Sooner]

We have , "if it the allegations are proven then shut them down." That is stating the obvious that the allegations must be proven. It is the way our justice system works.

All I have left is the little eye roller icon. What is that supposed to mean? No wait. Let me guess. I some sort of "...-ist". That is your point... that I am an "-ist".

That statements of that nature deserve nothing more than a roll of the eyes and a dismissal of the person making them as a poor excuse for a rational human being.

Considering that your title was to "Shut CAIR...down" when the allegations haven't been proven, I have no idea that you DO have any idea how our justice system works.

[Frozen Sooner]

I am sure you can do better than that.

I can. But frankly, I don't want to have to spend the next few hours explaining it to you in words of less than three syllables.

[BU BEAR]

That statements of that nature deserve nothing more than a roll of the eyes and a dismissal of the person making them as a poor excuse for a rational human being.

Considering that your title was to "Shut CAIR...down" when the allegations haven't been proven, I have no idea that you DO have any idea how our justice system works.


I have some idea that the court of public opinion does not require the same burden of proof as our courts.

I can certainly say "Shut CAIR down" before the allegations are proven true, because I believe that they will be proven true soon enough and after due process has been afforded it.

You certainly know when you are bested. You simply try to end the argument by "rolling the eyes" and "dismissing the person" by calling them a "poor excuse for a rational human being".

That is called an "ad hominem" and is a logical fallacy. Another example of a logical fallacy would be the strawman you set forth a few posts ago. I would expect that a person as hung up on "logic" and rational analysis as you fancy yourself to be would refrain from such fallacious expressions.

[BU BEAR]

I can. But frankly, I don't want to have to spend the next few hours explaining it to you in words of less than three syllables.

Yep. I am dumb. You are the smart one. That is why you have trouble explaining yourself.

[WILBURJIM]

“Let there be no doubt that the Council on American-Islamic Relations
is a terrorist supporting front organization that is partially funded
by terrorists, and that CAIR wishes nothing more than the
implementation of Sharia law in America.” --Anti-Cair

[Frozen Sooner]

I have some idea that the court of public opinion does not require the same burden of proof as our courts.

I can certainly say "Shut CAIR down" before the allegations are proven true, because I believe that they will be proven true soon enough and after due process has been afforded it.

You certainly know when you are bested. You simply try to end the argument by "rolling the eyes" and "dismissing the person" by calling them a "poor excuse for a rational human being".

That is called an "ad hominem" and is a logical fallacy. Another example of a logical fallacy would be the strawman you set forth a few posts ago. I would expect that a person as hung up on "logic" and rational analysis as you fancy yourself to be would refrain from such fallacious expressions.

Mission accomplished, you mean? There was no argument, sir. There was you making a statement that, yes, painted you as a bigot. I was not attempting to debate you.

I said I agree with you that CAIR should be shut down if the allegations against them are proven true. You apparently have a problem with this and are blathering about the court of public opinion. Do you think the court of public opinion has the right to shut down an organization?

Can you please explain what qualifies you to make the statement you have a "rational" belief about most things Muslim? Have you personally met more than half of the Muslims and all of them were bad? Have you personally looked into everything about Islam and its adherents and have come to the conclusion that most of it is bad? From a rational standpoint, not a mystical one?

[Frozen Sooner]

Yep. I am dumb. You are the smart one. That is why you have trouble explaining yourself.

I'd have the same trouble explaining myself to a snail.

[SicEmBaylor]

I don't have all the facts surrounding the CAIR situation, but it would seem to be common sense that if CAIR (as an orgnaization) is funneling money to terrorist groups like Hamas then most certainly the organization should be shut down in these United States. However, if the organization as a whole isn't being used for that purpose and only a few "bad eggs" as it were are using the group to launder funds or send aid to Hamas then that's no reason to shut the entire organization down. Those individuals should be prosecuted as individuals.

There's also a small point to be made that there are two sides to Hamas...the terrorist/militant wing and the "social services" wing of the group. There's probably no way to tell where money donated to Hamas goes, but I wouldn't have a huge problem with an islamic organization in these United States giving money to Hamas' social services. They do things such as a build roads, fund schools, fund hospitals, provide welfare type assistance to the poor, etc.

[BU BEAR]

I'd have the same trouble explaining myself to a snail.


A "snail"...

Tsk, Mike. I may be the slow one, but you have not yet demonstrated a grasp of the logical analysis that you profess to embrace and put into practice. Instead, you show a mastery of the ad hominem fallacy. Fear not, I do not think you are one dimensional. I believe you also exhibit a strong mastery of the art of condescension as well.

Ummm, condescension... sooooo, polysyllabic.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

You guys are missing the REAL threat here.

The threat comes from the Commission On Racially Negative, Hamas Opposed Libertarian Elite. This organization, commonly known as C.O.R.N.H.O.L.E., waves its stench of power in all our faces, daring us to fumigate their being from our most inner social circles. Known for a dogma that can clear a room in an instant, bringing even those most hardy of pundits to tears, members of this malodorous excuse for a political action committee infiltrate every pore and nostril of society, starting from birth to the oldest ages of mankind.

In fact, no room is safe.

Many have traced roots to the bean fields of Mexico, but many have seen major blooms in the egg industry and in cabbage processing. No one knows for sure who did it, though there have been many claims with the whistleblowers often under as much suspicion as those potentially involved.

Beware!

[Frozen Sooner]

A "snail"...

Tsk, Mike. I may be the slow one, but you have not yet demonstrated a grasp of the logical analysis that you profess to embrace and put into practice. Instead, you show a mastery of the ad hominem fallacy. Fear not, I do not think you are one dimensional. I believe you also exhibit a strong mastery of the art of condescension as well.

Ummm, condescension... sooooo, polysyllabic.

Physician, heal thyself.

[Frozen Sooner]

I don't have all the facts surrounding the CAIR situation, but it would seem to be common sense that if CAIR (as an orgnaization) is funneling money to terrorist groups like Hamas then most certainly the organization should be shut down in these United States. However, if the organization as a whole isn't being used for that purpose and only a few "bad eggs" as it were are using the group to launder funds or send aid to Hamas then that's no reason to shut the entire organization down. Those individuals should be prosecuted as individuals.

There's also a small point to be made that there are two sides to Hamas...the terrorist/militant wing and the "social services" wing of the group. There's probably no way to tell where money donated to Hamas goes, but I wouldn't have a huge problem with an islamic organization in these United States giving money to Hamas' social services. They do things such as a build roads, fund schools, fund hospitals, provide welfare type assistance to the poor, etc.Sic 'em's a terrorist sympathizer.

[Widescreen]

IBTL

(Haven't posted that in awhile)

[Frozen Sooner]

Oh, I ain't lockin' it. I'm having fun. :D

[yermom]

I don't have all the facts surrounding the CAIR situation, but it would seem to be common sense that if CAIR (as an orgnaization) is funneling money to terrorist groups like Hamas then most certainly the organization should be shut down in these United States. However, if the organization as a whole isn't being used for that purpose and only a few "bad eggs" as it were are using the group to launder funds or send aid to Hamas then that's no reason to shut the entire organization down. Those individuals should be prosecuted as individuals.

There's also a small point to be made that there are two sides to Hamas...the terrorist/militant wing and the "social services" wing of the group. There's probably no way to tell where money donated to Hamas goes, but I wouldn't have a huge problem with an islamic organization in these United States giving money to Hamas' social services. They do things such as a build roads, fund schools, fund hospitals, provide welfare type assistance to the poor, etc.

if you can't tell where the money is going, then no, they shouldn't be getting any from someone here...

[SicEmBaylor]

if you can't tell where the money is going, then no, they shouldn't be getting any from someone here...
Right. I agree.

[AlbqSooner]

Anyway, I'm not sure the government can just shut CAIR and similar organizations down, but they can freeze their assets I believe.
The article is unclear as to the designation of CAIR. It mentions that Hamas is a designated terrorist organization. If CAIR has been so designated then their assets are subject to seizure by the Office of Foreign Assets Control. You may not realize it but if you owe money to a designated organization and you pay them you are violating Federal law.

I am too lazy to do the research for you, but you can check it out for yourself if you browse through the intolerably boring list of designated individuals and organizations at OFAC.Gov - last I checked the list is somewhere around 266 pages.

[OUinFLA]

- last I checked the list is somewhere around 266 pages.


well, you got me there. I have trouble paying attention to 3 page long SO threads.

[mikeelikee]

I'd have the same trouble explaining myself to a snail.

Nice ad hominem attack, big man. Nice. :(

[SicEmBaylor]

well, you got me there. I have trouble paying attention to 3 page long SO threads.
Then you missed some good stuff a few months back.

[Frozen Sooner]

Nice ad hominem attack, big man. Nice. :(

Actually, you can't technically make an ad hominem attack against a snail.

But it's good to see you learned a new word.

[SicEmBaylor]

Actually, you can't technically make an ad hominem attack against a snail.

But it's good to see you learned a new word.

Why do you have french people?

[Frozen Sooner]

Why do you have french people?

But I don't have any french people...

[SicEmBaylor]

But I don't have any french people...
Err, hate not have and that's no longer funny and ****...I'm just going to go stand in the corner and drink Zima.

[Frozen Sooner]

:D