Food for thought my fellow Vets

[Sooner in Tampa]

This former Marine has really stirred quite a bit of controversy up lately...he has turned into a media whore and he kind of reminds me Ron Kovich (Born on the Fourth of July).

It seems that this young man has been activated from the IRR for prosecution and the possibility of losing his Honorable Discharge. Now, the whole thing started because the $h!thead wore his USMC uniform to an Anti War rally...this is a HUGE No-No...we all know this, it is pumped into our head time after time. Another thing is that when you leave active duty on you proceed to the IRR, you sign paperwork acknowledging the fact that you are still subject to the UCMJ.

Now that we have this out that clear, here is a portion of his story from the Peace lovers blog.


Back in March 2007, Major John Whyte (http://kokesh.blogspot.com/2007/05/legal-defense-fund-for-adam-kokesh.html) sent Kokesh an email notification of possible violations of DoDI 1334.01 "Wearing of the Uniform" and MCO P1020.34 "Marine Corps Uniform Regulations". Kokesh displayed his machismo and responded with extreme disrespect even signing the email "Adam Kokesh, PFC (Proud F*#@ing Civilian).




More details on the case and Adam's letter to the Marines
Washington, DC: Former Marine Sergeant Adam Kokesh is embroiled in a conflict that could have major implications for the free speech rights of veterans especially recent Vets who are in the Inactive Ready Reserve. Kokesh is facing an administrative hearing for his anti-war activities but recognizing the high stakes the military has offered a plea bargain. In response, Kokesh rejected the offer saying it risks the “free speech rights” of vets and would “allow the military to silence the voices of those whose experiences are most relevant in the most pressing debate before the nation.” Below this release is his letter to Captain Sibert and Brigadier General Moore, who is the convening authority for the hearing.
This Friday at 5:00 PM at Union Station in Washington DC Kokesh will be participating in a press conference before he departs to Kansas City, MO for the hearing which is scheduled for June 4th at the Marine Mobilization Command. Adam Kokesh, his attorney, and his witnesses, will be taking the Yellow Rose of Texas Peace Bus from DC to Kansas City.
Adam Kokesh was deployed to Fallujah and received an honorable discharge last November. Since then, he has become active with the national organization, Iraq Veterans Against the War. After participating in Operation First Casualty, a demonstration at which he wore parts of his utility uniform, he received a warning from Major Whyte, an active duty Marine Corps Major who had been assigned to investigate the incident. After replying with a strongly worded email, the Marine Corps decided to prosecute him and separate him from the IRR with an Other Than Honorable Discharge. He could have ignored the letter of notification, but instead chose to exercise his right to challenge the decision in a hearing.
The implications of this hearing may be far reaching, as the prosecution of a member of the inactive reserves under these circumstances is unprecedented. At stake is the right of freedom of speech for the hundreds of thousands of members of the Inactive Ready Reserve, as well as the nation’s right to get the unbiased truth out of Iraq. Last week, the prosecuting attorney, Captain Sibert, offered Kokesh a general discharge. To accept this would be to allow the Marines to say that members of the IRR do not have freedom of speech, so naturally, he declined.
The hearing will be held on June 4, at the Marine Corps Mobilization Command in Kansas City, MO. Kokesh requested the hearing be held closer to Washington, DC, his current residence and a much more convenient location for the witnesses to the event in question, which happened in Washington, but was denied. He has the right to call witnesses, but has to provide for their transportation.


Now here is the letter he wrote to a Colonel an a General



Dear Captain Sibert and Brigadier General Moore,
As an esteemed US Attorney and a General, you both must have a sense of the potential significance of my separation hearing. The prosecution of a member of the inactive reserve under these circumstances is unprecedented. As citizens, we all have a right to freedom of speech. In the Marines, we often joke that you signed away that freedom, and I understand the necessity for certain restrictions while on active duty. But those who have risked their lives to defend the rights of all Americans have a special claim to those rights when they have completed their service. Is the Marine Corps attempting to strip away those rights from the hundreds of thousands in the inactive reserves?
Maybe that’s not the case. Perhaps I am being singled out because I have become a vocal opponent of the war. Maybe Brigadier General Darrell L. Moore just got upset when he saw a picture of a Marine in the paper disagreeing with him. Maybe that’s when he decided to order Colonel Steve Brown, Deputy Commander of the Mobilization Command to recommend that I be separated with an Other Than Honorable Discharge. Maybe he thought that I would be intimidated by the long letter, the official letterhead, and the threats in official Marine Corps terminology. Maybe he thought that I would just ignore it, and let the Marines “paper-f***” me behind my back. Maybe I would shut up for a while. But let me tell you, you messed with the wrong veteran.
While there may be some purpose of this prosecution in order to maintain the, “good order and discipline” of the inactive reserve, it is clear by its prejudice that it is intended to silence the voices of dissent. Thousands of taxpayers’ dollars are being spent on this case. I love the Marine Corps, and to see it abused for political ends makes me sick. You should all be ashamed to call yourselves Marines.
I joined the Marines out of patriotism. I said that when I enlisted in 1999, before it was cool, and even wrote it as my reason on the form I filled out at the Military Entrance Processing Station. As Thomas Jefferson said, “Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.” Now that I am out of the Marines, I am continuing my patriotic duty by speaking out. It is Marines like you, Brigadier General Moore, and Colonel Brown, who are preventing the American public from hearing the truth about Iraq by intimidating those who would disagree with you from speaking out. If the policies that you support are so righteous, why are you afraid of the truth?
If I accept this “plea bargain,” I would have to allow you to punish me for speaking my mind, allow you to say that it is somehow less than honorable for thousands of IRR Marines to exercise their freedom of speech, allow you to silence the voices of those whose experiences are most relevant in the most pressing debate before the nation, and allow you to say that Thomas Jefferson was wrong. If this is your intent, I would ask to please, kindly, go f*** yourself. I will not allow it.
Semper Fi,
Adam Kokesh, PFC
Proud F***ing Civilian



The young lad thinks quite alot of himself


Kokesh got his first taste of combat as part of Team 10, First Regiment Detachment. "I was extremely cool under fire," he says. "Probably too cool. On our team I was the relaxed, reassuring guy who cracked jokes while getting mortared, and our corporal was the jumpy one who always made sure that everyone had their flak jackets and Kevlar helmets on. I highly recommend having both types with you if you ever have to go to war."

NOW...let me say this...if you want to protest against the war...knock yourself out. You had better not have on a Marine Corps Uniform...if I see it, I will knock you out...It is disrectful to the men and women have went before you, are there now, and will follow in your footsteps. That uniform is NOT yours...It is THE MARINE CORPS!!!!!

[olevetonahill]

Wholeheartedly Agree with you My friend .

If the Idiot wants to Protest knock himself OUT , But do it as a CIVILIAN veteran. Not an active member of the Military

[jk the sooner fan]

what a POS

[Jello Biafra]

"blanket party"


we actually had a dude in germany marry a turk girl to keep from going to iraq......he was of the same ilk as this one...

he sat in jail for the entire 7 months we were gone and then promptly entered manheim for a few years right after we got back.

[usmc-sooner]

you want to protest as a proud effing civilian, do it in your proud civilian clothes don't disgrace the uniform or my Corps. I'd hope he gets burned.

[Sooner in Tampa]

you want to protest as a proud effing civilian, do it in your proud civilian clothes don't disgrace the uniform or my Corps. I'd hope he gets burned.I think it is pretty cut and dried...this little @$$hole is going down, and he really sealed his fate when he sent that letter to the Colonel and General.

So now he and all of the other ilk that have jumped on his side can portray him as some sort of martyr.

Makes me sick to my stomach.

Here is a pic of the demonstration that got his dumb arse in trouble.
http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2007/03/19/PH2007031901935.jpg

[olevetonahill]

Maybe he can get Kerrys buddy Edwards to defend him :mad:

[Jello Biafra]

you want to protest as a proud effing civilian, do it in your proud civilian clothes don't disgrace the uniform or my Corps. I'd hope he gets burned.


ive never understood that. you see a whole bunch of people like that....they hated their experience in the military or protesting and then you realize this guy is bad mouthing the military or the war, while wearing a bdu field jacket etc.....you'd think they would want to be as far away from that kind of stuff as possible.

either way, ive never personally run into a protestor so i can't say what id do. i have an idea but id hate to incriminate myself :)

[jk the sooner fan]

he wore his uniform to that protest for a reason - to stand out and make a statement......he knows had he not worn it, he would have just been another face in the crowd

[olevetonahill]

Now hes gonna have to stand up and take the results of his " Statement"

[Suerreal]

you want to protest as a proud effing civilian, do it in your proud civilian clothes don't disgrace the uniform or my Corps. I'd hope he gets burned.
Minus the "my Corps" part, my thoughts exactly.

[KABOOKIE]

As a proud Marine (1989-1995) I see no problem what this guy did. He removed all rank and insignia from his cammies. Is the guy a POS? You bet. I think it’s funny he’s being called back to active duty. I bet he’ll learn some f’ing respect. And Ron Kovich lost the use of his legs in Vietnam and was a champion for Veterans Rights. Don't go dissing a Marine that had the guts to stand up against the Gov't pathetic post-war treatment of wounded servicemen.

[olevetonahill]

probably a remf anyway...good riddance
Aint heard that term in awhile :D
In that pic he looks like hes trying to demonstrate how he fought off the whole Iraqi army single handed .:rolleyes:

[Sooner in Tampa]

As a proud Marine (1989-1995) I see no problem what this guy did. He removed all rank and insignia from his cammies. Is the guy a POS? You bet. I think it’s funny he’s being called back to active duty. I bet he’ll learn some f’ing respect. And Ron Kovich lost the use of his legs in Vietnam and was a champion for Veterans Rights. Don't go dissing a Marine that had the guts to stand up against the Gov't pathetic post-war treatment of wounded servicemen.
Kabookie--Semper Fi

I will give the Ron Kovich thing...he was just the first person that I thought after reading some of this guys crap.

As far are removing rank and insignia...you can remove rank by taking the chevrons off. You CANNOT remove the Eagle Globe and Anchor...it is embrodiered on the pocket, as well as having the Eagle Globe an Anchor worked into the digital pattern of the new cammies. The Eagle Globe and Anchor is also embrodiered on that cover that he is wearing in that photo.

Bottom line is he did something wrong...and instead of just telling the good Major that he was sorry for breaking a rule and moving on, he decided to be a hardass. Well guess dude, you butt is coming back to active duty so you can answer for your numerous accounts of disrespect to officers!

[Sooner in Tampa]

Aint heard that term in awhile :D
In that pic he looks like hes trying to demonstrate how he fought off the whole Iraqi army single handed .:rolleyes:HEH...you obviously missed this quote of him describing himself


Kokesh got his first taste of combat as part of Team 10, First Regiment Detachment. "I was extremely cool under fire," he says. "Probably too cool. On our team I was the relaxed, reassuring guy who cracked jokes while getting mortared, and our corporal was the jumpy one who always made sure that everyone had their flak jackets and Kevlar helmets on. I highly recommend having both types with you if you ever have to go to war."

[usmc-sooner]

As a proud Marine (1989-1995) I see no problem what this guy did. He removed all rank and insignia from his cammies. Is the guy a POS? You bet. I think it’s funny he’s being called back to active duty. I bet he’ll learn some f’ing respect. And Ron Kovich lost the use of his legs in Vietnam and was a champion for Veterans Rights. Don't go dissing a Marine that had the guts to stand up against the Gov't pathetic post-war treatment of wounded servicemen.

as a Marine (this is different than the other branches) on Active Duty or IRR you are not supposed to be wearing cammies out in town. Now they have changed the rule a little bit to allow Marines to get gas off base in cammies coming to and from work.

[KABOOKIE]

Kabookie--Semper Fi

I will give the Ron Kovich thing...he was just the first person that I thought after reading some of this guys crap.

As far are removing rank and insignia...you can remove rank by taking the chevrons off. You CANNOT remove the Eagle Globe and Anchor...it is embrodiered on the pocket, as well as having the Eagle Globe an Anchor worked into the digital pattern of the new cammies. The Eagle Globe and Anchor is also embrodiered on that cover that he is wearing in that photo.

Bottom line is he did something wrong...and instead of just telling the good Major that he was sorry for breaking a rule and moving on, he decided to be a hardass. Well guess dude, you butt is coming back to active duty so you can answer for your numerous accounts of disrespect to officers!

You’re exactly right. I forgot the new pattern of cammies had the EGA digitally imposed in the camouflage. Back when I served they were normal woodland cammies that anyone could buy at a hunting store. Also, I still want to stress that I think it’s funny that the bozo is being called back up. I’m not sure the USMC has a case against him but, we all knew your time in the IRR was at the grace of the military. You could be called back for ANY reason. Cussing out a General would be a good enough reason. ;)

[KABOOKIE]

as a Marine (this is different than the other branches) on Active Duty or IRR you are not supposed to be wearing cammies out in town. Now they have changed the rule a little bit to allow Marines to get gas off base in cammies coming to and from work.


Heh! This reminds me of day way back when. That rule was actually enacted in the fall of 1994 as a way to help Marines would lived off base. Well, anyway I was heading home one day in my cammies and decided to stop at a gas station to get gas. As I was pumping gas a fellow Marine in civvies walked up and presented his ID card saying his was a MSgt in the USMC. He then proceeded to chew my *** for wearing cammies out in town. I respectfully informed (unlike the kid above) the MSgt that the new Commandant had issued a new directive about wearing cammies. The MSgt thought I was trying lie my way out of it and demanded I give him my full name and unit because he was going to personally call my CO and have me busted. Well, guess who pulled his car to the pump next to me as this was going on? None other than my CO a Colonel, WEARING HIS CAMMIES. I said to the MSgt, “If you’d like to talk to my CO he’s right there.” That was the only time a MSgt ever apologized to me. He felt so bad he copied and posted the new rule in his unit area and called me the next day to admit he was wrong. Heck of guy.

[C&CDean]

I ain't no Marine. I did train/train with several Recon guys though at the JOTC in Panama. Also had quite a few in jump school with me. ****in' jarheads......:P

Anyhow, my only thought on this is that he knew what he was doing by wearing the uniform, and he knew what the penalties for doing it might be. Therefore, STFU and take your punishment like a Marine. And if you do it again, your name should be permanently changed to Cindy Sheehan. Like the little bitch you are.

[1stTimeCaller]

heh. What the guy doesn't seem to grasp is that if while excersising your freedom of speech you are critical to or about anyone in your chain of command you violated the UCMJ.

You think the President sucks? Sorry, you have to keep your mouth shut as he's your CINC. You think your Senator sucks? Tell the world, you'll be fine as long as you aren't violating AR 670-1 or whatever regulation your particular service has in regards to the proper wearing of a uniform.

[Jello Biafra]

I ain't no Marine. I did train/train with several Recon guys though at the JOTC in Panama. Also had quite a few in jump school with me. ****in' jarheads......:P




wow.....never pictured c&c a CHAIRborne ranger......learn something new every day


the rule at work is, you learn two new things a day, you can go home. since im home today, ive got one more thing to learn and i can go back to bed :)

[Jello Biafra]

heh. What the guy doesn't seem to grasp is that if while excersising your freedom of speech you are critical to or about anyone in your chain of command you violated the UCMJ.

You think the President sucks? Sorry, you have to keep your mouth shut as he's your CINC. You think your Senator sucks? Tell the world, you'll be fine as long as you aren't violating AR 670-1 or whatever regulation your particular service has in regards to the proper wearing of a uniform.




its just not smart to do until you are completely away from any duty.....

not only has he opened himself up to ucmj but the ridicule and threats of his peers. ive never served with jarheads but i have fought a few of them. you almost have to put a bullet in thier neck to end the fight. this kids asss whoopins will be incessant. not to mention half of the veterans and probably 75% of WAR veterans want to see his nose rubbed in the proverbial shiite. he's dug a deeeeep hole. he may just be buried in it.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

I love the I Amendment argument they always throw.

Free speech! They're violating my free speech!

The thing is, the dumbass just figuratively yelled "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater. Yes, you can say it all day long. But you also must deal with the ramifications of your actions. In this case, the UCMJ.

And the hippies will look at it as just one more reason to hate the service, servicemen, and what they do. I'm telling you, we're a year away from protests at the airport and accusations of our boys being baby killers. God forbid, but some folks are heading that way in a damn hurry.

[C&CDean]

I love the I Amendment argument they always throw.

Free speech! They're violating my free speech!

The thing is, the dumbass just figuratively yelled "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater. Yes, you can say it all day long. But you also must deal with the ramifications of your actions. In this case, the UCMJ.

And the hippies will look at it as just one more reason to hate the service, servicemen, and what they do. I'm telling you, we're a year away from protests at the airport and accusations of our boys being baby killers. God forbid, but some folks are heading that way in a damn hurry.

Yup. Deja vu all over again...

[Scott D]

This is all Bruce's fault....his kid gettin all cozy with a bird is why.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

I think it is pretty cut and dried...this little @$$hole is going down, and he really sealed his fate when he sent that letter to the Colonel and General.

So now he and all of the other ilk that have jumped on his side can portray him as some sort of martyr.

Makes me sick to my stomach.

Here is a pic of the demonstration that got his dumb arse in trouble.
http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2007/03/19/PH2007031901935.jpg

Will he throw his medals over the WH fence?

Hope he burns and loses HD and whatever the UCMJ can do...

He knew better, he was tweaking the system and wants to be a martyr - let him.

IRR is still in the military - ask my Dad who was called up after fighting in WWII, he was called up for the Korean war 1 semester before his university graduation and before anyone in the active reserve. Duration on a mine sweeper...

[Okla-homey]

What a POS. My only regret is that a proud Service with a great tradition now has to add this walking turd to its admittedly tiny musette bag of losers -- along with Lee Harvey Oswald. Still, just two turds since the Marine Corps was established in Tun's Tavern during the Revy War era is extraordinary.

I sure hope he ends up in a Navy Brig with combat vet Marines as guards while awaiting his general court martial.:D

[royalfan5]

What a POS. My only regret is that a proud Service with a great tradition now has to add this walking turd to its admittedly tiny musette bag of losers -- along with Lee Harvey Oswald. Still, just two turds since the Marine Corps was established in Tun's Tavern during the Revy War era is extraordinary.

I sure hope he ends up in a Navy Brig with combat vet Marines as guards while awaiting his general court martial.:D
I think you are forgetting Charles Whitman.

[BU BEAR]

"At stake is the right of freedom of speech for the hundreds of thousands of members of the Inactive Ready Reserve, as well as the nation’s right to get the unbiased truth out of Iraq."

I thought the "unbiased truth" is why we have the media. Are they conceding that the media does not give us the unbiased truth our of Iraq?

[Scott D]

ironic isn't it....lefty viewpoints calling the media too conservative, and our own forum bastions of conservatism calling the media too lefty.

[1stTimeCaller]

I really like his fagtastic sunglasses.

[soonerboy_odanorth]

And the hippies will look at it as just one more reason to hate the service, servicemen, and what they do. I'm telling you, we're a year away from protests at the airport and accusations of our boys being baby killers. God forbid, but some folks are heading that way in a damn hurry.



http://content.vcommerce.com/products/fullsize/158/5406158.jpg

[olevetonahill]

I love the I Amendment argument they always throw.

Free speech! They're violating my free speech!

The thing is, the dumbass just figuratively yelled "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater. Yes, you can say it all day long. But you also must deal with the ramifications of your actions. In this case, the UCMJ.

And the hippies will look at it as just one more reason to hate the service, servicemen, and what they do. I'm telling you, we're a year away from protests at the airport and accusations of our boys being baby killers. God forbid, but some folks are heading that way in a damn hurry.

I dont think the Majority of the American Public will ever allow that **** to happen again . When I came home there were protesters everywhere:mad:
The Majority of the public had a bad case of stfu on there ownselves:eek:

[bri]

That guy is a friggin' moron. I hope he enjoys his regular and vicious *ss-kickings. :D

[Harry Beanbag]

They should write him up for having that metrosexual beard thing while in uniform as well.

[bri]

That's not metrosexual, it's just dorktarded.

[Harry Beanbag]

That's not metrosexual, it's just dorktarded.


That is a better description. Dorktarded was on the tip of my tongue, but just couldn't quite get it out. :)

[bri]

"-tarded" is, like, the best modifier ever. :D

[royalfan5]

I keep wondering why the dude appears to be protesting via mime as well. Shouldn't that increase the severity of his crime?

[Okla-homey]

I dont think the Majority of the American Public will ever allow that **** to happen again . When I came home there were protesters everywhere:mad:
The Majority of the public had a bad case of stfu on there ownselves:eek:

I agree my brutha. As I've stated here before, this time, there is no draft, so the anti-war movement can't get traction except among the loonies.

[Rogue]

I think he's being railroaded and harassed in order to intimidate other combat vets from protesting. As a combat vet, I see him as a comrade in arms. Not necessarily better or worse than anyone else, but someone I will always give the benefit of the proverbial doubt. It is an abuse of the UCMJ to call him back strictly for punitive reasons for actions after his Honorable Discharge. If the crime is actually a violation of wearing a uniform where and when he shouldn't have, I'm saddened that the Navy JAG types don't have better things to be doing, like defending the poor bastards being accused of shooting too many innocents in the heat of battle. What he did would not, in any other circumstance outside of this politically charged act, result in an OTH discharge. It is intimidation in order to discourage others from speaking up. If some ****bird wants to buy a pair of surplus cammies at the Army-Navy store and wear them to go fishing in or to a gay-rights parade, there is no crime. If a combat vet wants to wear a sanitized uniform to a protest, I have no problem with that. He apparently wore it in nobler and more distasteful situations than this. I don't know what his individual struggles are about the war in Iraq. I don't know what he's been through. And I sure as hell am not going to judge or condemn him for it until I do.

Downgrading his discharge means that he loses benefits like education (GI Bill), home loan guaranty, VA medical benefits, and civil service preference. The man has already done his duty, honorably according to the USMC. Leave him the **** alone and let him live his life his way now. Too many men far better than me have given far more than me for him to have the opportunity to do so.

[1stTimeCaller]

did you read the letter he wrote?

If you're gonna be an *** and tell an O-6 and an O-7 or greater to go **** themselves you're not going to like what happens.

[Rogue]

As a taxpayer, I already don't like that we are calling him back to duty, paying him, and spending precious military resources a'la time and $$ to smack him down for this, whether he called them Col Asshat and Gen Chickenchit or what. He has earned the right. He did his time. He broke a freaking rule. It may be disrespectful to some, including some Marines but this is a victimless crime. Had he driven drunk and run over a bus full of debutantes, they wouldn't haul his butt back to duty to punish him for it. But gawd forbid he attend a protest rally in a sanitized uniform when we are gearing up for some elections!

[1stTimeCaller]

While I do see your point, he's being punished for being stupid. It's not that different than getting pulled over for having your tag light out, getting a warning, telling the cop to go **** himself and then crying that he wrote you a ticket for the faulty light and other minor things wrong with your vehicle.

What's an active duty E-5 make? 40,000 a year? It's not costing taxpayers much money at all.

[Rogue]

Yeah, the letter prolly won't help his cause any with the inflammatory smack in it. Which is too bad because he's now adding self-inflicted wounds on top of one another.

Didn't he write the letter after they called him back? So it was already a charlie-foxtrot by that point.

I realize my point is that he broke a rule/law that I don't agree with. But it is also that he is being tarred and feathered over a technicality which is a big waste and seems pretty darn ill-motivated to me. Judging by the majority of posters here though I am in way more of a minority than I would have thought.

When I think of what I and many of the guys I know did for a few years after we got out and were still technically in IRR, I guess I'm just lucky to still have my Honorable Discharge. Obviously it means something to him too, because he's not going to let it be threatened without fighting back.

[Sooner in Tampa]

That ****ing ********** is still running around town with a cover that bears the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor while he is running his mouth...STILL in violation of the uniform regulations...not to mention that shag on his puss.

Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ApVMr4XcGk)

http://bp1.blogger.com/_tbFb7sYvY38/RmOP32utqdI/AAAAAAAAAR4/-pOD4a1YaVo/s320/73636335.jpeg

http://bp2.blogger.com/_tbFb7sYvY38/RmOQxGutqfI/AAAAAAAAASI/PoFcAGFXNNw/s320/526325537_074cd3dd14_o.jpeg

His own words

"I feared that violating the sanctity of the Marine Corps utility uniform would be sacrilege. I think if I was still on active duty right now, and was watching fellow former Marine Sergeant and IVAW member Liam Madden marching though the capitol in his utilities, I probably would have called him a "**** bag". But to not participate when perfectly able would have been to betray myself. In light of the stakes, making a parody of military operations is the pettiest of transgressions."

[usmc-sooner]

Rogue
he has not yet been discharged, he knew the deal when he volunteered to abide by these rules he knew that he signed up for an 8 year pump. I don't know if you're a Marine but looking at these pictures he's violating a lot of Marine Corps rules.
Plus he is embarrassing me.

[Sooner in Tampa]

Rogue
he has not yet been discharged, he knew the deal when he volunteered to abide by these rules he knew that he signed up for an 8 year pump. I don't know if you're a Marine but looking at these pictures he's violating a lot of Marine Corps rules.
Plus he is embarrassing me.Exactly...and to top it all off...he KNEW that he was breaking the rules, which is evident in his entry on his blog that I already posted.
He has a history of not being able to follow the rules...he got NJP for bringing an unauthorized pistol home from Iraq.

[Suerreal]

Anti-war Marine gets general discharge (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070613/ap_on_re_us/military_protest_hearing_5;_ylt=Ai1P0suV54r35MAc_9 I77boE1vAI)

[olevetonahill]

Anti-war Marine gets general discharge (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070613/ap_on_re_us/military_protest_hearing_5;_ylt=Ai1P0suV54r35MAc_9 I77boE1vAI)
And hes still cryin :eek:

[Sooner in Tampa]

And hes still cryin :eek:and your suprised? :eek:

[Rogue]

USMC, I'm not a Marine I was Army.

He seems to be an articulate, gutsy, and loud fellow who is outspoken about his views. Like most of my USMC buddies.

The posts on the youtube deal include a comrade from OIF 2 that served with him back when Kokesh was "gung ho."

Heard him on the radio again this week correcting the announcer and explaining that they weren't proposing to downgrade his original discharge but give him another one and that it's the last DD214 that counts. He's right.
He and another veteran protester didn't want this to be a precedent the other way.

I'm glad that they didn't give him an OTH or dishonorable. The discharge is from "active duty" which he apparently performed honorably, or at least generally. I was initially outraged that he could lose his veterans benefits which he earned when he volunteered and served honorably.

I'm not as wound up about this now since he has technically not lost anything. The irony is that the whole deal has given him and his cause more exposure. He's dealing with the flak and the acclaim fairly well IMO. Yes I'm biased because I agree with most of what he's saying so I guess it's easier for me to respect him. I don't see it as any different than someone in the same situation attending other events either in support of or in protest of issues they care about.

If he had done something against the oath of defending the Constitution against all enemies etc I could see that maybe it is a big enough violation to bring him back for. Still I'm not sure about it, but this was almost a technicality. I think the whole point of bringing him back was politically motivated and that's what sucks about it.




.

[Sooner in Tampa]

Rogue,
I think that I speak for most Marines when I say that there are a few things that really upset the 'Brotherhood' and what this young man did is one of them. I would say that most of us couldn't care less if he wants to go to the highest mountain top and protest against the war, he can stage all of the faux patrols, faux funerals, and whatever else his heart desires...BUT, DO NOT do it while you are wearing our beloved Eagle, Globe, and Anchor. That is WRONG!!!!

Now, this young could have simply acknowledged that what he was doing was wrong and agreed to not do it anymore(as is the case for another protester involved) but Kokesh decided to be hard headed and starting firing off emails and letters that were less than professional and they damn sure didn't contain any respect.

I don't know if it was politically motivated or if he just ****ed off the wrong 06. In my years in the gun club, that tends to be the case more than anything...if you **** off the right people, you are going to pay. What Kokesh ended up recieving was nothing more than a paper drill...a compromise if you will. He really seems to be a media hound, so he got what he wanted.

Bottom line is this:
1) He did something wrong and got called on it
2) Recieved an email telling him to stop wearing his uniform at political rallys and replied with a nasty email.
3) Recieved a letter informing him about the said allegations
4) Replied with a nasty letter.

You cannot go around telling 05's and 06's to go **** themselves and not expect something bad to happen...for those of us in the military, we KNOW this.

Hopefully this is done and over with now and Kokesh will have to find another venue to keep himself in the media spotlight.

[Vaevictis]

If he had done something against the oath of defending the Constitution against all enemies etc I could see that maybe it is a big enough violation to bring him back for. Still I'm not sure about it, but this was almost a technicality. I think the whole point of bringing him back was politically motivated and that's what sucks about it.

It may be politically motivated, but I'm not inclined to see it that way at this point; a Marine was in uniform at a Republican event back in 2006 (Rep. Musgrave). A big ****fit was thrown about it on a bunch of liberal blogs, and you didn't see anything like it happen again. I suspect what happened was someone in the Republican party got a call from someone in the Marines saying, "Don't do that again," and the Marine received the same treatment.

Looking at the original post, I honestly think the problem is that instead of saying, "Oops, my bad, it won't happen again," when he was told not to do it again, he decided to make a scene and try to browbeat the Marines with the press. They're not going to just let something like that go, nor should they be expected to.

[Sooner in Tampa]

Looking at the original post, I honestly think the problem is that instead of saying, "Oops, my bad, it won't happen again," when he was told not to do it again, he decided to make a scene and try to browbeat the Marines with the press. They're not going to just let something like that go, nor should they be expected to.
Ding, Ding, Ding...we have a WINNER!!!