A "Christian" terrorist!

[Jerk]

I found one!http://www.isra.org/

SPRINGFIELD, Ill., May 29 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The following was released today by the Illinois State Rifle Association (ISRA):

Nobody expected Saturday's Operation PUSH protest at Chuck's Gun Shop & Range to be anything other than a circus of the bizarre. However, nobody anticipated that an address by a Chicago priest would include a call for the murder of a suburban gun shop owner and legislators who oppose gun control.

During an address at an anti-gun rally in front of Chuck's, Rev. Michael Pfleger, pastor of St. Sabina's Church, exhorted the crowd to "drag" shop owner, John Riggio, from his shop "like a rat" and "snuff" him. Rev. Pfleger went on to tell the crowd that legislators that vote against gun control legislation should be "snuffed" as well. As many know, "snuff" is slang for especially violent murder.

The ISRA has a recording of Pfleger's remarks in MP3 format.

"Certainly Fr. Pfleger has offered Absolution to a murderer or two during his tenure as a priest," commented ISRA Executive Director, Richard Pearson. "That's why it's shocking to hear him actually advocate the murder of a gun shop owner who has never committed a crime in his life. He then compounds the problem by calling for the murder of legislators who disagree with his personal political views -- something I suspect is a felony in this state. Pfleger's comments were disgusting and dangerous. And, I seem to remember that the Fifth Commandment frowns on murdering one's neighbor."

"This week, I'll be penning a letter to the Archbishop, expressing my concerns over Rev. Pfleger's comments," continued Pearson. "I would hope that the Archbishop would reply with words of comfort for Mr. Riggio, his family, state legislators, and all others who were injured by Rev. Pfleger's thoughtless, inflammatory remarks."

The ISRA is the state's leading advocate of safe, lawful, and responsible firearms ownership. Since 1903, the ISRA has represented the interests of over 1.5 million law-abiding firearm Illinois firearm owners.
--end--

Okay, for the libs who roll their eyes every time we mention the "media bias," here is the article from the Chicago Tribune and they make no mention of this 'incident.' That's kind of like, lying by ommission right? What you chose to put in or leave out of a story can greatly affect its perception.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-gunviolence27may27,1,2978164.story?coll=chi-newslocalchicago-hed

[proud gonzo]

um.... Christian terrorists have been around since, oh, the Crusades or so

[Jerk]

um.... Christian terrorists have been around since, oh, the Crusades or so

Sure, the Dark Age Catholic Church's adoption of the pagan belief in the 'immortal soul' was way before even that, and they used it with great effect to hammer fear into the population. However, today when it comes to my personal safety, I'm more worried about the turbin-wearing Allah worshippers than the methodists down the street.

[Hatfield]

if you worked in an abortion clinic you might feel differently about who you should be afraid of "christians" or "turbin-wearing Allah worshippers"

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

if you worked in an abortion clinic you might feel differently about who you should be afraid of "christians" or "turbin-wearing Allah worshippers"Some would think that a person working in an abortion clinic is the terrorist, preying on those totally incapable of self defense.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

if you worked in an abortion clinic you might feel differently about who you should be afraid of "christians" or "turbin-wearing Allah worshippers"

What, can you not be aware that folks in all veins can be crazy?

And while this is true, there aren't a whole lot of Christian theocratic nations out there whose dogma and propaganda are almost solely based on destroying the Great Satan of the West.

Call a spade a frickin' spade, man.

100 people, all murderers. 99 of which killed because of faith and teaching in pickles. One of which killed because by God, my teachings in the gospels say it ain't pickles, it's onions.

All one hundred are damn dirty killers.

But when ninety-nine out of a hundred are doing it for pickles, that doesn't take a mathematician to figure out it just may be the pickles that have something to do with it. And it doesn't take a mathematician to realize that yes, while that onion lover is a damn dirty killer, it doesn't necessarily mean onion lovers as a whole are damn dirty killers.

Crap like that just makes a fella scratch his head.

[proud gonzo]

Sure, the Dark Age Catholic Church's adoption of the pagan belief in the 'immortal soul' was way before even that, and they used it with great effect to hammer fear into the population. However, today when it comes to my personal safety, I'm more worried about the turbin-wearing Allah worshippers than the methodists down the street.I'm not.

[Hatfield]

and some would say the individual that blows up abortion clinics to instill terror in those who work at abortion clinics elsewhere is a terrorist.

well they would say that if they weren't a hypocrite and had a working understanding of the word terrorist.

and if some were to assign an abortion clinic doc the label of terrorist as you suggest rlimyc that would indicate they don't understand the def. of terrorist.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Good point.

Methodists CAN be pretty dang scary.

[Hatfield]

What, can you not be aware that folks in all veins can be crazy?

And while this is true, there aren't a whole lot of Christian theocratic nations out there whose dogma and propaganda are almost solely based on destroying the Great Satan of the West.

Call a spade a frickin' spade, man.

100 people, all murderers. 99 of which killed because of faith and teaching in pickles. One of which killed because by God, my teachings in the gospels say it ain't pickles, it's onions.

All one hundred are damn dirty killers.

But when ninety-nine out of a hundred are doing it for pickles, that doesn't take a mathematician to figure out it just may be the pickles that have something to do with it. And it doesn't take a mathematician to realize that yes, while that onion lover is a damn dirty killer, it doesn't necessarily mean onion lovers as a whole are damn dirty killers.

Crap like that just makes a fella scratch his head.

interesting diatribe....now show me where i said their weren't muslim terrorists...or that crazy doesn't run in all flavors

[jk the sooner fan]

I'm not.

really? the methodists down the street cause you more consternation?

interesting....

[stoopified]

hELL the Klan claims to be a Christian organization and I don't believe in them anymore than I do this kook.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

interesting diatribe....now show me where i said their weren't muslim terrorists...or that crazy doesn't run in all flavorsTo insinuate that modern day Christians are the equivalent of the islamist jihadists is beyond silly, and you have to wonder why people go down that path of comparison.

[proud gonzo]

really? the methodists down the street cause you more consternation?

interesting....yep

[Hatfield]

really? the methodists down the street cause you more consternation?

interesting....

i heard there is medicine for that

[jk the sooner fan]

and just what threat do these methodist pose that has you so concerned?

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Damn dirty Methodists!

[Hatfield]

To insinuate that modern day Christians are the equivalent of the islamist jihadists is beyond silly, and you have to wonder why people go down that path of comparison.

where did i insinuate modern day christians are equivalent to islamist jihadists?

i think a more correct interpretation of what i said would be that radical christian fundamentalist are dangerous as are radical muslim fundamentalists.

[Hatfield]

and just what threat do these methodist pose that has you so concerned?

one time we got a new methodist preacher and he like to let his sermon run a little long....i kid you not the grumpy old folks hung a clock at the back of the church directly in front of his pulpit. :)

[jk the sooner fan]

dude, you DONT mess with a traditional methodist service..... :)

[proud gonzo]

and just what threat do these methodist pose that has you so concerned?nice try, man. i'm not getting into this debate with y'all.

[SoonerProphet]

it ain't about religion, but politics.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

where did i insinuate modern day christians are equivalent to islamist jihadists?

i think a more correct interpretation of what i said would be that radical christian fundamentalist are dangerous as are radical muslim fundamentalists.

*cough* I hear an echo. *cough*


And while this is true, there aren't a whole lot of Christian theocratic nations out there whose dogma and propaganda are almost solely based on destroying the Great Satan of the West.

[jk the sooner fan]

i was just curious what it was about the christians/methodist that caused you greater concern for your safety than muslims

no debate necessary - i certainly wasnt going to try and change your mind

[proud gonzo]

i was just curious what it was about the christians/methodist that caused you greater concern for your safety than muslims

no debate necessary - i certainly wasnt going to try and change your mindIMO the subtlety of Christian dogma is far more widespread and insidiously harmful than Islam extremists.

[Hatfield]

dude, you DONT mess with a traditional methodist service..... :)


the real issue was that the baptist were beating us out of service and to the local eateries....and we can't have that now can we

[jk the sooner fan]

the real issue was that the baptist were beating us out of service and to the local eateries....and we can't have that now can we

depends on if your'e going to one that serves alcohol or not ;)

[Hatfield]

*cough* I hear an echo. *cough*

i honestly am confused by what you mean...unless your position is that every member of the islamic nation is a jihadist....in which case i would be forced to point out that you are wrong.

just like how every christian isn't a fundamentalist abortion clinic bomber

[usmc-sooner]

IMO the subtlety of Christian dogma is far more widespread and insidiously harmful than Islam extremists.

if you lived in the mid east amongst the Muslims the subtle Chistian dogma would be a welcome glorious relief to the suicide bombers, bus bombers, roadside bombs, head chopper offers, the stonings, the women beaters, the women oppressors, kidnappings.

just think all you got to worry about is some Methodist telling you to love one another.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

the real issue was that the baptist were beating us out of service and to the local eateries....and we can't have that now can we

You're just a dang radical local eatery fundamentalist, aren't you.

AREN'T YOU!

[usmc-sooner]

oh and btw in a lot of those muslim countries there is no subltle Muslim dogma, it is forced on you like white on rice and beat into you at school.

[Hamhock]

how do you think the Methodist church feels about my bobcat?

[mdklatt]

oh and btw in a lot of those muslim countries there is no subltle Muslim dogma, it is forced on you like white on rice and beat into you at school.

We're not in a Muslim country. Muslims aren't the ones in Washington and the state capitols trying to force their morality on everybody. The odds of dying in a Muslim terrorist attack in the US are astronomically small. We're all effected a lot more by the Christian agenda than the Muslim agenda.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

where did i insinuate modern day christians are equivalent to islamist jihadists?

i think a more correct interpretation of what i said would be that radical christian fundamentalist are dangerous as are radical muslim fundamentalists.While both may be dangerous, radical Christian fundamentalists are FAR fewer in number than islamist jihadists, and only the truly mentally ill among the Chr. fundamentalists are truly dangerous in a fatal sort of way. Islamist jihadists have murdering terrorism as a fundamental belief. I have a feeling that deep down, you secretly know this to be true. Moral equivalency of Christian fundamentalism and Islamist jihadists is (IMO) purposefully inaccurate, and it's sad you and others like to go down that misleading path.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

We're all effected a lot more by the Christian agenda than the Muslim agenda.

Which predominantly says what again?

Love your fellow man? Forgiveness and faith?

I ain't no pastor, but from what I remember, those are pretty much the tenets in a nutshell.

[Hatfield]

While both may be dangerous, radical Christian fundamentalists are FAR fewer in number than islamist jihadists, and only the truly mentally ill among the Chr. fundamentalists are truly dangerous in a fatal sort of way. Islamist jihadists have murdering terrorism as a fundamental belief. I have a feeling that deep down, you secretly know this to be true. Moral equivalency of Christian fundamentalism and Islamist jihadists is (IMO) purposefully inaccurate, and it's sad you and others like to go down that misleading path.


actually they are both ignorant bastardizations of their religion and I treat them both with equal contempt. And I don't give the christian ones a pass for being fewer in number than the muslim ones.

[Hatfield]

Which predominantly says what again?

Love your fellow man? Forgiveness and faith?

I ain't no pastor, but from what I remember, those are pretty much the tenets in a nutshell.

sadly those aren't the ones being loaded up and carried to washington.

but the ones you mentioned are nice and cool.

[usmc-sooner]

We're not in a Muslim country. Muslims aren't the ones in Washington and the state capitols trying to force their morality on everybody. The odds of dying in a Muslim terrorist attack in the US are astronomically small. We're all effected a lot more by the Christian agenda than the Muslim agenda.

actually that is damn wrong, where to begin uuuh oh yeah last time I checked we're not at war with a Christian country, last time I checked it wasn't a group of Christians that flew into our buildings, it's not a Christian who attacked the Saudi's and tried to hijak their oil and lit up all the oil when we pushed them out. It's not Christian countries who are holding the world hostage with oil, It's not a Christian country that wants to build nuclear weapons and destroy Isreal and the US. I'd be willing to bet that in the past couple of years more Americans were killed by Muslims than by Christians. No were not effected more by Christian agenda's. It's Muslims in a runaway. To imply otherwise is stupid.

BTW what the hell is this Christian agenda? Love one another, live your life by decent morals is an agenda? I'd say in the days of open gay marriages, porn within seconds of our children, decaying moral fabric of our country, the Christian agenda is failing miserably, in fact that's what we need more than anything right now.

You don't have to go to church, you don't have to listen to anyone preach, don't give me no horse manure about Christian agendas.

[Mongo]

When did the concern for domestic issues supercede concern for preservation of life?

[Widescreen]

Christians are evil because they promote a high moral standard. That used to be considered a good thing but in this "anything goes" modern era, you're actually despised for it. Apparently someone standing up and saying "homosexual acts are wrong because I believe God's Word which states they are wrong" is scarier than "I totally want you to die. DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE. And now I will plant a bomb on your bus to make that happen".

Oh, and when was the last fundamentalist Christian abortion clinic bombing (anywhere in the world)? And when was the last fundamentalist Islamic bus/buildling bombing (anywhere in the world)? Yeah, I can certainly see the equivalence there.

[yermom]

i love you guys

[FaninAma]

It appears this board has its fair share of Christophobes. Any of you who fear the Christian religion care to share or relate an incident in which a Christian harmed you or deprived you of life, property or liberty?

[Widescreen]

i love you guys
Which means you'd either make a great Christian or a great gay dude. ;)

[yermom]

It appears this board has its fair share of Christophobes. Any of you who fear the Christian religion care to share or relate an incident in which a Christian harmed you or deprived you of life, property or liberty?

you guys have gotten more subtle than the good old days ;)

i'm speechless at the idea of the only thing that Christians say is to "love one another"

[usmc-sooner]

It appears this board has its fair share of Christophobes. Any of you who fear the Christian religion care to share or relate an incident in which a Christian harmed you or deprived you of life, property or liberty?

A Christian once told me I couldn't go out and drink and smoke pot and have sex with other men and that really ****es me off. Who are they to tell me to forgive my fellow man, thou shalt not kill my ***, that's another one that ****es me off.

[OklahomaTuba]

I'm not.

Now THAT is some pretty funny stuff right there.

Pretty sad as well that someone actually believes this.

[Frozen Sooner]

Everybody play nice, people.

And I would argue that our good friends in Ireland know something about Christian terrorism, as do the people of Kosovo. However, certainly Muslim terrorists are far more dangerous right now.

[OklahomaTuba]

Everybody play nice, people.

And I would argue that our good friends in Ireland know something about Christian terrorism, as do the people of Kosovo. However, certainly Muslim terrorists are far more dangerous right now.

Fortunatly, other CHRISTIANS did everything they could to stop these vile acts.

The Muslim's don't seem all that interested in stopping theirs.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

sadly those aren't the ones being loaded up and carried to washington.

Explain yourself. Don't just run your face hole for the sake of.

Tell us the Christian tenets that ARE being loaded up and carried to Washington. Help out the ignorant masses. Tell us how opposition to abortion doesn't fall under Faith in the Word and love of one's fellow man. Tell us how opposition to specifically dictated civil rights beyond Lawrence v. Texas doesn't qualify as Faith in the Word. How support of the death penalty is not faith in the Word (Exodus 21:12 and 21:15). Even support of war, which is an amazingly common theme in the Testaments, how is that not only faith in the Word, but in love of one's fellow man? And in line with Christ's teachings, as He and the Father are one? (John 10:30)?

C'mon, man. I don't want to change your opinion, and believe it or not, I respect it. But you've been taking shots then crawfishin' on semantics so your white gloves don't get dirty. If you disagree, then disagree. If you think X, Y, or Z are true, then put those bullets in your pistol and sling it. Don't throw generalities and suggestive comments out there and expect an 8 second ride on the fence to win the all-around cowboy buckle for you.

[yermom]

Fortunatly, other CHRISTIANS did everything they could to stop these vile acts.

The Muslim's don't seem all that interested in stopping theirs.

you mean like the Pope's troops went in and cleaned house?

[proud gonzo]

Now THAT is some pretty funny stuff right there.

Pretty sad as well that someone actually believes this.why, because you think I'm lying about my opinion? And thanks to Condescending Sooner for the neg, btw. Glad you're all so willing to have open discussions of opinions and ideas.

[yermom]

Explain yourself. Don't just run your face hole for the sake of.

Tell us the Christian tenets that ARE being loaded up and carried to Washington. Help out the ignorant masses. Tell us how opposition to abortion doesn't fall under Faith in the Word and love of one's fellow man. Tell us how opposition to specifically dictated civil rights beyond Lawrence v. Texas doesn't qualify as Faith in the Word. How support of the death penalty is not faith in the Word (Exodus 21:12 and 21:15). Even support of war, which is an amazingly common theme in the Testaments, how is that not only faith in the Word, but in love of one's fellow man? And in line with Christ's teachings, as He and the Father are one? (John 10:30)?

C'mon, man. I don't want to change your opinion, and believe it or not, I respect it. But you've been taking shots then crawfishin' on semantics so your white gloves don't get dirty. If you disagree, then disagree. If you think X, Y, or Z are true, then put those bullets in your pistol and sling it. Don't throw generalities and suggestive comments out there and expect an 8 second ride on the fence to win the all-around cowboy buckle for you.

war is pretty cool in the OT, i'll give you that

"you see those people that don't belive in me? they live in the 'promised land'. go kill them and take their milk and honey"

[Frozen Sooner]

you mean like the Pope's troops went in and cleaned house?

I think he's talking about the nation-building the Clinton administration engaged in in Kosovo. You know, where we've successfully helped in the creation of a federal republic and put the genocidal maniacs on trial.

[yermom]

ok, so Clinton and the UN are Christian leaders, got it

[Frozen Sooner]

Yeah, I couldn't be more surprised if I woke up with my head stapled to the floor that Tuba thinks that the Clintons and the UN are Christians.

[jk the sooner fan]

i'm not sure comparing ireland to our present day muslim problems is the best comparison

[Tear Down This Wall]

i'm not sure comparing ireland to our present day muslim problems is the best comparison

Sure it is...if you're a Christian-hating liberal. They've got to reach for anything. That's why they always reference the Catholic-waged Crusades from centuries ago when discussing modern terrorism problems.

[Frozen Sooner]

i'm not sure comparing ireland to our present day muslim problems is the best comparison

I don't think anyone is claiming they're exactly analogous. However, they were certainly Christians and they were certainly terrorists.

[yermom]

i don't discriminate, i pretty much hate all of the religious wackjobs equally

the fact of the matter is, i seriously doubt any of that has all that much to do with God or religion if you look deep enough, it's about land or money or something, and religion is just the easiest way to get people to take sides

[Tear Down This Wall]

i don't discriminate, i pretty much hate all of the religious wackjobs equally

the fact of the matter is, i seriously doubt any of that has all that much to do with God or religion if you look deep enough, it's about land or money or something, and religion is just the easiest way to get people to take sides

You forgot booty...surely booty is part of the reason for these things.

[Fugue]

BSG is a terrorist? :eek:

[SoonerInKCMO]

Some good booty will make a man do some crazy things.

[Tear Down This Wall]

BSG is a terrorist? :eek:

No, the people fighting and killing each other to get to her booty are the terrorists.

[yermom]

Some good booty will make a man do some crazy things.


or the lack thereof, i'd bet that if everyone was getting good booty, there would be no wars :D

[SoonerInKCMO]

True dat. :(

[crawfish]

if you worked in an abortion clinic you might feel differently about who you should be afraid of "christians" or "turbin-wearing Allah worshippers"

There's been, like, 13 killed at abortion clinics since 1989?

Geez. That's like a slow day for Hamas.

[crawfish]

Although, I agree that Methodists are downright scary.

So did Mel Brooks. :)

[KABOOKIE]

We're not in a Muslim country. Muslims aren't the ones in Washington and the state capitols trying to force their morality on everybody. The odds of dying in a Muslim terrorist attack in the US are astronomically small. We're all effected a lot more by the Christian agenda than the Muslim agenda.


Morals are bad! :rolleyes:

[Okieflyer]

actually they are both ignorant bastardizations of their religion and I treat them both with equal contempt. And I don't give the christian ones a pass for being fewer in number than the muslim ones.

I hate to keep picking on you Hatfield, but you say things sometimes out of ignorance. I love you brother, but the facts are they both are not "bastardizations of their religion".

The Crusades were, but this this muslim terrorism isn't. They are doing exactly what the Koran and Hadith says for them to do. You can't say that about the bible. This gave us "Turn and offer your other cheek" and if your a slave to be a good slave (paraphased of course).

If the "Christians" of the Dark ages could read (the reason they were called the dark ages) and would have followed the bible instead of a man (the pope), there probably wouldn't have been the crusades.

Can Christians be terrorist? Sure can. Are they following Jesus Christ when they are? Most certainly not!

[Tear Down This Wall]

Morals are bad! :rolleyes:

And, Muslims don't use legislation to get their "morality" point across.

[Hamhock]

There's been, like, 13 killed at abortion clinics since 1989?

Geez. That's like a slow day for Hamas.


workers. there have been 13 workers killed since 1989.

[usmc-sooner]

I'd like to open up a can on the Buhdists, Hindus and Mormans next. Jehovah's Witness you're waiting in the wings.

[Jerk]

Damn, man. The topic was supposed to be about a liberal priest who said that a gun shop owner and all gun-rights supporting politicios should be be murdered. Anyone want to comment on that? He's liberal. Most of the people here saying that they fear Christians just as much the Jihadees are liberal, too. Kind of ironic, huh? "I found someone you fear, but he's kind of like you" hmm

[yermom]

the priest is an asshat

can i be afraid of religious scumbags and an NRA member?

am i still a liberal?

[achiro]

IMO the subtlety of Christian dogma is far more widespread and insidiously harmful than Islam extremists.
For such a "smart" young lady, thats about the biggest waste of IQ I've ever read on this board. (Actually there are several really silly things being posted in this thread so I may have update that opinion in a bit.)
Of course the irony here is the simple fact that if you grew up in a muslim country, you wouldn't have the right to think out loud so all that brain power would be meaningless anyway.
One thing for sure, we live in a very sheltered environment in this country. To think that some of you seriously consider the "Christian agenda" to be dangerous and in any form comparable to islam, would be laughable if it weren't just so darned sad.

PS. To take the "agenda" idea of loving one another a bit further...to love one another to the point that we would share the gospel to save your eternal soul would be maybe a bit more to the point. Thats what gets under "their" skin. It's ok to have a free country, say what you want to say(including bashing the whole Christian ideal) until of course a Christian suggests that you have to be saved to go to Heaven. WOW, "you mean I could be a good person and still go to hell?" Many people feel as if all your rights should be taken away when you say something like that.;)

[Okieflyer]

Most of the people here saying that they fear Christians just as much the Jihadees are liberal, too. Kind of ironic, huh?

John 15:18-19
18"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

[yermom]

For such a "smart" young lady, thats about the biggest waste of IQ I've ever read on this board. (Actually there are several really silly things being posted in this thread so I may have update that opinion in a bit.)
Of course the irony here is the simple fact that if you grew up in a muslim country, you wouldn't have the right to think out loud so all that brain power would be meaningless anyway.
One thing for sure, we live in a very sheltered environment in this country. To think that some of you seriously consider the "Christian agenda" to be dangerous and in any form comparable to islam, would be laughable if it weren't just so darned sad.

PS. To take the "agenda" idea of loving one another a bit further...to love one another to the point that we would share the gospel to save your eternal soul would be maybe a bit more to the point. Thats what gets under "their" skin. It's ok to have a free country, say what you want to say(including bashing the whole Christian ideal) until of course a Christian suggests that you have to be saved to go to Heaven. WOW, "you mean I could be a good person and still go to hell?" Many people feel as if all your rights should be taken away when you say something like that.;)


say or think all you want, just don't push that **** on me or my kids in school, etc... (not that i have kids)

leave that **** at the church

and yes, the Religious Right affects me like every day, Islam usually just sells me gas or something

[Hatfield]

Explain yourself. Don't just run your face hole for the sake of.

Tell us the Christian tenets that ARE being loaded up and carried to Washington. Help out the ignorant masses. Tell us how opposition to abortion doesn't fall under Faith in the Word and love of one's fellow man. Tell us how opposition to specifically dictated civil rights beyond Lawrence v. Texas doesn't qualify as Faith in the Word. How support of the death penalty is not faith in the Word (Exodus 21:12 and 21:15). Even support of war, which is an amazingly common theme in the Testaments, how is that not only faith in the Word, but in love of one's fellow man? And in line with Christ's teachings, as He and the Father are one? (John 10:30)?

C'mon, man. I don't want to change your opinion, and believe it or not, I respect it. But you've been taking shots then crawfishin' on semantics so your white gloves don't get dirty. If you disagree, then disagree. If you think X, Y, or Z are true, then put those bullets in your pistol and sling it. Don't throw generalities and suggestive comments out there and expect an 8 second ride on the fence to win the all-around cowboy buckle for you.

I haven't been taking shots at christianity. i despise radicals that bastardize their religion whatever religion that may be.

I have no problem with people having strong religous beliefs. I think if some people are able to find comfort and guidance in that more power to them.

however, when they use their belief as a tool to hold other people down that is when i get to have a problem.

and look at the legislation that is coming to washington....to me i don't see a lot of love one another...yeah christianity...i simply see an attempt to legislate a particular view of christianity on the masses and i don't agree with that. (i don't have a problem with people having those beliefs i have a problem with them trying to legislate that i should also have them...or be forced to abide by them)

[Condescending Sooner]

why, because you think I'm lying about my opinion? And thanks to Condescending Sooner for the neg, btw. Glad you're all so willing to have open discussions of opinions and ideas.


You're welcome. When you stated that you are more afraid of Methodists than you are islamic terrorists, that showed how open you are to discussions of opinions and ideas. Either your are exeedingly ignorant, or have convinced yourself for some reason that Christians are out to get you. In either case, I don't think other people's opinions or even stone cold facts are going to affect you in any way.

[Jerk]

the priest is an asshat

can i be afraid of religious scumbags and an NRA member?

am i still a liberal?

Sure, I'm just trying to stir sh*t up. People of all political backgrounds love guns. That's why the Dems aren't touching the issue.

I'm just a little dismayed that some people are more threatened by their Bible-reading neighbors than they are the true R.O.P.

[Hatfield]

i'm not sure comparing ireland to our present day muslim problems is the best comparison


see why not? that is what i don't understand about this discussion...everyone wants to discount the acts of terrorism committed by christians as not relevant to the size and nature of the muslim acts today.

why can't they both be bad, and since they are both acts of violence carried out in the "name of their religion" i fail to see how you can't compare them

[Hatfield]

I hate to keep picking on you Hatfield, but you say things sometimes out of ignorance. I love you brother, but the facts are they both are not "bastardizations of their religion".

The Crusades were, but this this muslim terrorism isn't. They are doing exactly what the Koran and Hadith says for them to do. You can't say that about the bible. This gave us "Turn and offer your other cheek" and if your a slave to be a good slave (paraphased of course).

If the "Christians" of the Dark ages could read (the reason they were called the dark ages) and would have followed the bible instead of a man (the pope), there probably wouldn't have been the crusades.

Can Christians be terrorist? Sure can. Are they following Jesus Christ when they are? Most certainly not!

pick away, i don't mind.

the deal is argue all you want but the fact remains the same...they are doing it out of their ideas of what their religion commands of them or allows...to me that is a bastardization of their religon.

(sorry for the mulitiple posts, just got back from lunch and trying to get caught up)

[yermom]

Sure, I'm just trying to stir sh*t up. People of all political backgrounds love guns. That's why the Dems aren't touching the issue.

I'm just a little dismayed that some people are more threatened by their Bible-reading neighbors than they are the true R.O.P.

i don't live next door to the ROP, and they aren't telling me what beer i can't buy, etc...

[soonerscuba]

I see the Christian agenda in Kansas, which does things like bans evolution. I will come out and say that I am more afraid of people that believe the earth is 6,000 years old than I am radical Muslims, I know which one will actually do more harm to our country.

[Jerk]

i don't live next door to the ROP, and they aren't telling me what beer i can't buy, etc...

Yeah, but your Bible-thumping next door neighbor isn't trying to bring a nuke into this country and detonate it inside a major city.

[Okieflyer]

i don't live next door to the ROP, and they aren't telling me what beer i can't buy, etc...

You have people telling you what beer to buy? WOW!:eek:

[Condescending Sooner]

i don't live next door to the ROP, and they aren't telling me what beer i can't buy, etc...

Oh my god, they are trying to tell you what beer you can buy? Why be afraid of people that fly planes into buildings when you have the beer nazis to contend with?

[OSUAggie]

I'd rather die than be forced back into prohibition.

[Hatfield]

why are people trying to frame the argument in terms of allowing people to only be "afraid" of one group at a time?

[jk the sooner fan]

see why not? that is what i don't understand about this discussion...everyone wants to discount the acts of terrorism committed by christians as not relevant to the size and nature of the muslim acts today.

why can't they both be bad, and since they are both acts of violence carried out in the "name of their religion" i fail to see how you can't compare them

because most of the ireland vs british terrorism was protestant vs catholic and very little of it was done in the name of christianity

it was about british occupation.....granted it all started hundreds of years ago with the brits imposing their church of england on the irish catholics, but the IRA stuff in the 80's was to get the british out.....it wasnt a "holy war"

[Okieflyer]

I see the Christian agenda in Kansas, which does things like bans evolution. I will come out and say that I am more afraid of people that believe the earth is 6,000 years old than I am radical Muslims, I know which one will actually do more harm to our country.


Bans evolution? If your going argue get your facts straight.:mad:

Wait...never mind, they are a lot here that don't have the facts straight.:confused:

Carry on!:)

[SCOUT]

and look at the legislation that is coming to washington....to me i don't see a lot of love one another...yeah christianity...i simply see an attempt to legislate a particular view of christianity on the masses and i don't agree with that. (i don't have a problem with people having those beliefs i have a problem with them trying to legislate that i should also have them...or be forced to abide by them)
Help me understand this. In our government the people elect officials to legislate what they deem is best. People who are religious derive their beliefs from their faith. People who are not religious derive their beliefs from other areas of their lives. Why is it unacceptable that religious people try to do what they think is best but OK for non-religious people to do what they think is best?

[usmc-sooner]

say or think all you want, just don't push that **** on me or my kids in school, etc... (not that i have kids)

leave that **** at the church

and yes, the Religious Right affects me like every day, Islam usually just sells me gas or something

they don't push that **** on you or any kids at school, they can't say the pledge of allegiance because it has God in it, they don't have prayers at school, they teach evolution. I went to school in conservative rural America and nobody has ever tried to push Christianity on me. We had Christians, Mormans, JW's, a couple of Hindu, athiests and nobody had problems with anybody.

In today's society it's a total cop out to cry your being forced into Christianity because it aint true.

and regardless if you refuse to accept it or not the Muslim religion calls for Jihad's and has been affecting the world for quite some time.

[soonerscuba]

Bans evolution? If your going argue get your facts straight.:mad:

Wait...never mind, they are a lot here that don't have the facts straight.:confused:

Carry on!:)

Fair enough, teaches pseudo-science to make the people that can't accept that we did not, in fact, come from a talking snake in a tree along side stuff formulated by actual scientists and stuff feel better about their worldview.

[yermom]

Oh my god, they are trying to tell you what beer you can buy? Why be afraid of people that fly planes into buildings when you have the beer nazis to contend with?

day to day, i don't generally have to worry about such things, but it's not like we didn't provoke any of it... i'm not saying they were justified or something, but that is the only way they had any hope of getting to us, so that is what they did

and yes, they do tell you what beer you can buy, ask Homey, he'll tell you all about it ;)

[Fugue]

http://www.smiliearchiv.com/smilies/tiere/tiere_63.gif

[yermom]

they don't push that **** on you or any kids at school, they can't say the pledge of allegiance because it has God in it, they don't have prayers at school, they teach evolution. I went to school in conservative rural America and nobody has ever tried to push Christianity on me. We had Christians, Mormans, JW's, a couple of Hindu, athiests and nobody had problems with anybody.

In today's society it's a total cop out to cry your being forced into Christianity because it aint true.

and regardless if you refuse to accept it or not the Muslim religion calls for Jihad's and has been affecting the world for quite some time.

so they removed the God stuff from the pledge? news to me...

they can't pray in school, but i'll be damned if you guys aren't ****ed about it

not to mention this Intelligent Design business or sex ed

[jk the sooner fan]

if worrying about what kind of beer you can/cant buy is your biggest problem, i'd say you're doing ok

[Frozen Sooner]

I'm always interested why people continue to push the lie that you can't pray in school.

[usmc-sooner]

.

however, when they use their belief as a tool to hold other people down that is when i get to have a problem.

and look at the legislation that is coming to washington....to me i don't see a lot of love one another...yeah christianity...i simply see an attempt to legislate a particular view of christianity on the masses and i don't agree with that. (i don't have a problem with people having those beliefs i have a problem with them trying to legislate that i should also have them...or be forced to abide by them)

how are Chistians holding anyone down in Atmerica, it's not the greatest country in the world because Christians are holding everyone down. What legislation are the evil Christians passing.

Last time I checked things here are put to a majority vote.

[Jerk]

I never did have a problem with sex ed for high school students. It's when I hear that they're teaching 2nd graders how to wear a condom or have gay sex when get I angry. And I don't even have kids.

[OSUAggie]

they don't push that **** on you or any kids at school, they can't say the pledge of allegiance because it has God in it, they don't have prayers at school, they teach evolution. I went to school in conservative rural America and nobody has ever tried to push Christianity on me. We had Christians, Mormans, JW's, a couple of Hindu, athiests and nobody had problems with anybody.

In today's society it's a total cop out to cry your being forced into Christianity because it aint true.

and regardless if you refuse to accept it or not the Muslim religion calls for Jihad's and has been affecting the world for quite some time.

hmmm.... When I was in school, I endured constant prayers done en mass that were led by teachers, the pledge was recited (not that I have a problem with that), and evolution was taught around by 3/4 of my history teachers.

If you believe that God has been taken out of the classroom in every corner of the United States, you're sadly mistaken.

I just find it so ****ing difficult to understand why some people can't manage to leave their personal beliefs about God and/or religion to themselves when attempting to mold the academic minds of the nation's young. Why is it so important that God be brought up in every aspect of your life?

[yermom]

how are Chistians holding anyone down in Atmerica, it's not the greatest country in the world because Christians are holding everyone down. What legislation are the evil Christians passing.

Last time I checked things here are put to a majority vote.

if that was true we wouldn't have GWB would we?

[usmc-sooner]

I'm always interested why people continue to push the lie that you can't pray in school.

We didn't have public prayer in our school. It was at the request of a non Christian group. I'm always interested why people who don't know call it a lie.

I guess if you want to be technical about you can pray anytime anywhere you want.

[usmc-sooner]

hmmm.... When I was in school, I endured constant prayers done en mass that were led by teachers, the pledge was recited (not that I have a problem with that), and evolution was taught around by 3/4 of my history teachers.

If you believe that God has been taken out of the classroom in every corner of the United States, you're sadly mistaken.

I just find it so ****ing difficult to understand why some people can't manage to leave their personal beliefs about God and/or religion to themselves when attempting to mold the academic minds of the nation'ys young. Why is it so important that God be brought up in every aspect of your life?

they should have performed exorcisms if you went to OSU.

you just don't like it cause the Bible says you can't practice goat love in Stillwater. :D

[yermom]

if worrying about what kind of beer you can/cant buy is your biggest problem, i'd say you're doing ok

i barely drink beer, it's just an example

[royalfan5]

We didn't have public prayer in our school. It was at the request of a non Christian group. I'm always interested why people who don't know call it a lie.

I guess if you want to be technical about you can pray anytime anywhere you want.
You also have to look at the fact that not all Christian groups like to pray with other Christians. Conservative Lutheran Groups do not like to pray with non-Lutherans, and would find it objectionable to pray with a bunch of Hell-bound Southern Baptists.

[usmc-sooner]

if that was true we wouldn't have GWB would we?

maybe they were to busy beating the word of God into you and didn't explain the whole electoral college thing to you.

On behalf of the right wing Christian Coalition, I apologize for that.

[Fugue]

I drink a lot of beer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/dayjavooodew/smileys/food/10_7_5.gif

[OSUAggie]

maybe they were to busy beating the word of God into you and didn't explain the whole electoral college thing to you.

On behalf of the right wing Christian Coalition, I apologize for that.

Maybe that's why the majority vote portion was in bold.

[C&CDean]

This thread is beyond gay.

[Okieflyer]

I drink a lot of beer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/dayjavooodew/smileys/food/10_7_5.gif

Stop trying to make light of the Thread!:mad:



;)

[Fugue]

Stop trying to make light of the Thread!:mad:



;)

now it's heavier: :D

http://talkwichita.com/thunder/style_emoticons/default/sumo.gif

[usmc-sooner]

i barely drink beer, it's just an example

so those Christians are intruding in your right to drink beer, yet you don't drink and this is a big burden? I'm confused.

I have a Methodist preacher that lives next to me. I don't care if he sees me carrying in beer. I've talked to him with a beer in my hand. Now if I was a drunk and mistreating my kids, I'd damn sure want him to be man enough and of enough moral conviction to get involved.

[usmc-sooner]

This thread is beyond gay.

it's almost two ugly fat lesbians

[KABOOKIE]

This thread is beyond gay.


And we knew you'd show up. :D

[yermom]

maybe they were to busy beating the word of God into you and didn't explain the whole electoral college thing to you.

On behalf of the right wing Christian Coalition, I apologize for that.

that's not quite a majority

the majority rule is something of a myth...

[proud gonzo]

You're welcome. When you stated that you are more afraid of Methodists than you are islamic terrorists, that showed how open you are to discussions of opinions and ideas. Either your are exeedingly ignorant, or have convinced yourself for some reason that Christians are out to get you. In either case, I don't think other people's opinions or even stone cold facts are going to affect you in any way.negging me and saying "You have GOT to be kidding." is not discussion of opinions or ideas, and neither is making assumptions about my opinions and then insulting me for them.

[Okieflyer]

You also have to look at the fact that not all Christian groups like to pray with other Christians. Conservative Lutheran Groups do not like to pray with non-Lutherans, and would find it objectionable to pray with a bunch of Hell-bound Southern Baptists.


What's really bad is when one of those "Hell-bound Southern Baptists" (me)marries a "Conservative Lutheran". :O


Wait, are there conservative Lutherans?:confused:

[usmc-sooner]

that's not quite a majority

the majority rule is something of a myth...

someone call yermom's neighbor, the dude is drinking again. :D

[royalfan5]

What's really bad is when one of those "Hell-bound Southern Baptists" (me)marries a "Conservative Lutheran". :O


Wait, are there conservative Lutherans?:confused:
Ever meet a Wisconsin Synod Lutheran? These are folks that don't let their children join the Boy Scouts because the Boy Scout oath is not theologically approved by them. There are still some Missouri Synod Churches that refuse to change to English Services, and are still conducting services in German. The ELCA doesn't represent everybody.

[Hatfield]

Help me understand this. In our government the people elect officials to legislate what they deem is best. People who are religious derive their beliefs from their faith. People who are not religious derive their beliefs from other areas of their lives. Why is it unacceptable that religious people try to do what they think is best but OK for non-religious people to do what they think is best?


i have never advocated that anyone should legislate based on their religious/ or similar in nature belief

[usmc-sooner]

the non football season is the greatest time in the world to be a South Ovalian

[yermom]

someone call yermom's neighbor, the dude is drinking again. :D

part of the intent of the Constitution is to deflect the will of the majority

perhaps some light reading by Madison? (you know, one of the guys responsible for writing the Constitution)
http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10.htm

[usmc-sooner]

part of the intent of the Constitution is to deflect the will of the majority

perhaps some light reading by Madison? (you know, one of the guys responsible for writing the Constitution)
http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10.htm


seriously I'm telling your neighbor

some of the people who wrote the constitution have also written that it was the intent that country always be governed by Christian values.

[OklahomaRed]

so they removed the God stuff from the pledge? news to me...

they can't pray in school, but i'll be damned if you guys aren't ****ed about it

not to mention this Intelligent Design business or sex ed


So, put the shoe on the other foot. As strongly as you feel about "them" trying to put forth the concept of an intelligent design theory in the public classroom; what makes you think that the other 50% religious right (let's not get into arguements about the far left versus far right) feel about evolution being taught, which they disagree with. Who is right? Obviously one group feels like their theory is more important and carries more validity than the other 50%'s right and opinion? Can you follow this thought? Do you see where the religious right might have a little heartburn? The pendulum has swung too far to the left. There has to be some equality both ways. In today's world if you are a Christian male, you are rediculed. :pop:

[Frozen Sooner]

Ever meet a Wisconsin Synod Lutheran? These are folks that don't let their children join the Boy Scouts because the Boy Scout oath is not theologically approved by them. There are still some Missouri Synod Churches that refuse to change to English Services, and are still conducting services in German. The ELCA doesn't represent everybody.

Wasn't there a Missouri Synod minister (pastor? I don't know what the Missouris call their leaders) who was kicked out for praying with a Muslim cleric for peace after 9/11?

[yermom]

So, put the shoe on the other foot. As strongly as you feel about "them" trying to put forth the concept of an intelligent design theory in the public classroom; what makes you think that the other 50% religious right (let's not get into arguements about the far left versus far right) feel about evolution being taught, which they disagree with. Who is right? Obviously one group feels like their theory is more important and carries more validity than the other 50%'s right and opinion? Can you follow this thought? Do you see where the religious right might have a little heartburn? The pendulum has swung too far to the left. There has to be some equality both ways. In today's world if you are a Christian male, you are rediculed. :pop:

one is a theory based on the Scientific Method and evidence

the other isn't

[Frozen Sooner]

We didn't have public prayer in our school. It was at the request of a non Christian group. I'm always interested why people who don't know call it a lie.

I guess if you want to be technical about you can pray anytime anywhere you want.

I do know. And stating "You can't pray in school" is either a lie or ignorance.

Stating "You can't have group-led prayer" is neither.

[Fugue]

Wasn't there a Missouri Synod minister (pastor? I don't know what the Missouris call their leaders) who was kicked out for praying with a Muslim cleric for peace after 9/11?

someone on the SO knows that pastor.

[Okieflyer]

one is a theory based on the Scientific Method and evidence

the other isn't
I hate to break it to you, but evolution is not based on "Scientific Method and evidence". Some of it is, but you can say the same thing for some of ID's claims. It's still just a theory.

[yermom]

you aren't going to pull out a banana are you?

[usmc-sooner]

I do know. And stating "You can't pray in school" is either a lie or ignorance.

Stating "You can't have group-led prayer" is neither.

dude In my school they said that a certain group had asked that we not have group led prayers. We stopped having them at football games, we never had them during school. That's neither a lie or ignorance that's how it was. Nobody was affected or got their panties in a bunch we just didn't do it anymore.

Hell if you know more about the inner workings of my HS than me,power to you but I promise you I'm not liar or ignorant.

[usmc-sooner]

I hate to break it to you, but evolution is not based on "Scientific Method and evidence". Some of it is, but you can say the same thing for some of ID's claims. It's still just a theory.

pretty conveniant to skip right over that whole missing link, and rail on others about not having scientific evidence.

[Frozen Sooner]

dude In my school they said that a certain group had asked that we not have group led prayers. We stopped having them at football games, we never had them during school. That's neither a lie or ignorance that's how it was. Nobody was affected or got their panties in a bunch we just didn't do it anymore.

Hell if you know more about the inner workings of my HS than me,power to you but I promise you I'm not liar or ignorant.

So all prayer has to be group-led?

By your OWN ADMISSION you could still pray in school. You just couldn't have group-led prayer. This is not the same as "You can't pray in school."

[Frozen Sooner]

pretty conveniant to skip right over that whole missing link, and rail on others about not having scientific evidence.

Pretty convenient that the "missing link" argument is fallacious in the extreme.

[Frozen Sooner]

I hate to break it to you, but evolution is not based on "Scientific Method and evidence". Some of it is, but you can say the same thing for some of ID's claims. It's still just a theory.

Someone doesn't know what theory means in this context.

[royalfan5]

dude In my school they said that a certain group had asked that we not have group led prayers. We stopped having them at football games, we never had them during school. That's neither a lie or ignorance that's how it was. Nobody was affected or got their panties in a bunch we just didn't do it anymore.

Hell if you know more about the inner workings of my HS than me,power to you but I promise you I'm not liar or ignorant.
We prayed before a football game once in High School. We lost 44-8. The next week we didn't pray and won 42-14.

[Okieflyer]

you aren't going to pull out a banana are you?

It would provide more evidence than an evolutionist could provide.;)

[OklahomaRed]

one is a theory based on the Scientific Method and evidence

the other isn't


They are both theories? Unless you were around at the beginning of the universe, or you know someone who has a time machine? Even in Ike's posting on the other thread, he stated that the latest assumptions about dark matter were "inferred". It's a theory. Yes, it is supported by a lot of evidence, but if it were FACT, then the scientist would not have to keep changing their assumptions as new information is discovered. You will find a lot of highly placed researchers into cosmic origins that are Christians. What makes that researcher any less believable than the agnostic? Even if you take intelligent design out, then there still has to be a beginning somewhere? Something just doesn't come from nothing without some type of belief in a supreme being?

[usmc-sooner]

So all prayer has to be group-led?

By your OWN ADMISSION you could still pray in school. You just couldn't have group-led prayer. This is not the same as "You can't pray in school."


If I wanted I could pray to God, Allah, Buhda, a Longhorn, but we weren't allowed to take up class time with it. Dude you can pray to yourself all you wanted but were not allotted class time to pray. If I dropped down on my knees and started praying the teacher would tell me to save for after school or do it before I got there.

[yermom]

It would provide more evidence than an evolutionist could provide.;)


perhaps you should read something about the real theories instead of what you have heard from the ID'ers

[yermom]

They are both theories? Unless you were around at the beginning of the universe, or you know someone who has a time machine? Even in Ike's posting on the other thread, he stated that the latest assumptions about dark matter were "inferred". It's a theory. Yes, it is supported by a lot of evidence, but if it were FACT, then the scientist would not have to keep changing their assumptions as new information is discovered. You will find a lot of highly placed researchers into cosmic origins that are Christians. What makes that researcher any less believable than the agnostic? Even if you take intelligent design out, then there still has to be a beginning somewhere? Something just doesn't come from nothing without some type of belief in a supreme being?

i didn't say anything was a fact

and if you've read any of my other posts on this issue, i don't really think theories on The Big Bang or Evolution preclude the idea of a supreme being

[FaninAma]

I do think that Christians(or at least professed Christians) set themselves up for criticism by not following Christ's example of how to approach the non-Christian. You have to lead by example....not by condemnation.

You have to show through your daily actions in your life that following the teachings of Christ is the best way to have a life that is free of the pitfalls and problems that fallible human beings impose on themselves every day.

Now that doesn't mean that a Christian can't have an opinion or engage in a political cause. It's just that they need to be careful to do it in such a way that they avoid condeming others or appearing judgemental.

[Okieflyer]

perhaps you should read something about the real theories instead of what you have heard from the ID'ers

Really, what "real" theories? Help us out!

[Fugue]

I do think that Christians(or at least professed Christians) set themselves up for criticism by not following Christ's example of how to approach the non-Christian. You have to lead by example....not by condemnation.

You have to show through your daily actions in your life that following the teachings of Christ is the best way to have a life that is free of the pitfalls and problems that fallible human beings impose on themselves every day.

Now that doesn't mean that a Christian can't have an opinion or engage in a political cause. It's just that they need to be careful to do it in such a way that they avoid condeming others or appearing judgemental.

exactamundo, good post.

[Okieflyer]

I do think that Christians(or at least professed Christians) set themselves up for criticism by not following Christ's example of how to approach the non-Christian. You have to lead by example....not by condemnation.

You have to show through your daily actions in your life that following the teachings of Christ is the best way to have a life that is free of the pitfalls and problems that fallible human beings impose on themselves every day.

Now that doesn't mean that a Christian can't have an opinion or engage in a political cause. It's just that they need to be careful to do it in such a way that they avoid condeming others or appearing judgemental.

Ah heck! I would hang out with all these Sooners. This is just a Non-hate filled discussion.:D

1 Peter 3:15
15But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Summary: Bill Clinton and the UN are good. Christians suggesting you should folllow Christianity are really bad, prolly as bad as islamic jihadists. If you even THINK about outlawing guns, you'll be sorry.

[Hatfield]

Summary: Bill Clinto and the UN are good. Christians suggesting you should folllow Christianity are really bad, maybe as bad as islamic jihadists. If you even THINK about outlawing guns, you'll be sorry.

it really is pathetic that you try to muddle up things with such an off the wall misrepresentation of what has been said.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Okay, back up a notch here. From our good friend Hatfield.


and look at the legislation that is coming to washington....to me i don't see a lot of love one another...yeah christianity...i simply see an attempt to legislate a particular view of christianity on the masses and i don't agree with that. (i don't have a problem with people having those beliefs i have a problem with them trying to legislate that i should also have them...or be forced to abide by them)

1) What legislation?

2) What particular view in what particular piece of legislation?

3) Forced to abide by a set of beliefs? From a piece of legislation? Which one was that again?

This post said nothing.

You accuse legislators of forcing religious beliefs upon you through legislation, yet you fail to provide examples of. You fail to provide what beliefs are being forced upon you. Failed to give us an idea of which legislators, which piece of legislation, municipal, state, or federal, any establishing precedent, NOTHING. Nothing besides "oh noes, they're making religion laws and it hurts meeeeeeee my rights omg". Simply put, put up or shut up. You ain't put up yet, cowboy.

A lil' nugget I'd like to leave in this thread besides the brown stinky ones that I play off as posts.


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

Gotta love those Founding Fathers. Caught it both ways, they did.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

it really is pathetic that you try to muddle up things with such an off the wall misrepresentation of what has been said.Whoever said you don't have a sense of humor is FOS.

[TUSooner]

Has anybody just mentioned that Father Whatsisname is just a fleepin idiot? The religion he proposes is a stupid as Islamists saying they need to protect themselves by blowing up babies.
That's all, thanks.
Please resume the fighting.

[Fugue]

Please resume the fighting.

http://media.scout.com/media/image/27/273123.gif

[OklahomaRed]

Okay, back up a notch here. From our good friend Hatfield.



1) What legislation?

2) What particular view in what particular piece of legislation?

3) Forced to abide by a set of beliefs? From a piece of legislation? Which one was that again?

This post said nothing.

You accuse legislators of forcing religious beliefs upon you through legislation, yet you fail to provide examples of. You fail to provide what beliefs are being forced upon you. Failed to give us an idea of which legislators, which piece of legislation, municipal, state, or federal, any establishing precedent, NOTHING. Nothing besides "oh noes, they're making religion laws and it hurts meeeeeeee my rights omg". Simply put, put up or shut up. You ain't put up yet, cowboy.

A lil' nugget I'd like to leave in this thread besides the brown stinky ones that I play off as posts.



Gotta love those Founding Fathers. Caught it both ways, they did.


Tulsa,

Good post. I concur. What right have you had taken away from you because of legislated fundamentlism?

I also agree with the bro! You will never win anyone by forcing them towards your opinion or belief. Just live your life and leave others wondering where you strength comes from.

I also agree with some of the other views here as far as far right fundamentalists trying to force their narrow thinking on others. It was this very type of religious restrictive thinking that Christ hated most!

:pop:

[crawfish]

I'd like to apologize to all Methodists for my little joke. I'm sure a few of you are fine, upstanding people embarrassed by the rest.

[Hatfield]

Okay, back up a notch here. From our good friend Hatfield.



1) What legislation?

2) What particular view in what particular piece of legislation?

3) Forced to abide by a set of beliefs? From a piece of legislation? Which one was that again?

This post said nothing.

You accuse legislators of forcing religious beliefs upon you through legislation, yet you fail to provide examples of. You fail to provide what beliefs are being forced upon you. Failed to give us an idea of which legislators, which piece of legislation, municipal, state, or federal, any establishing precedent, NOTHING. Nothing besides "oh noes, they're making religion laws and it hurts meeeeeeee my rights omg". Simply put, put up or shut up. You ain't put up yet, cowboy.

A lil' nugget I'd like to leave in this thread besides the brown stinky ones that I play off as posts.



Gotta love those Founding Fathers. Caught it both ways, they did.

wow.

you are something else.

we are speaking in generalities and then you want specifics because you want to backpeddle and **** and moan about the poor discriminated against christians...give me a break.

i wasn't speaking about any particular piece of legislation.
i wasn't speaking about any particular legislator.
i wasn't speaking about any particular special interest group.
i wasn't speaking about any particular lobby firm.

my god...the christians are just like any other powerful organization in this land...they seek to expand their sphere of influence. if you are acting like they aren't well i don't know what to tell you.

and i merely mentioned that the leg. that i perceive to be associated with a "christian agenda" don't seem to me to be of the love one another kind...seems more of the elevate yourself over other classes of people kind.

and yes...if legislation becomes law you are forced to abide by it.

[yermom]

Really, what "real" theories? Help us out!

for example that man didn't come from monkeys like i was told my whole life

the stuff on bipedalism is pretty interesting

[crawfish]

Methodists didn't evolve from monkeys.

They evolved from rabid weasels. :mad:

[Hatfield]

Methodists didn't evolve from monkeys.

They evolved from rabid weasels. :mad:

this isn't a theory.

it is a fact.

and you left off that the rabid weasels tend to be drunk

[Tulsa_Fireman]

i wasn't speaking about any particular piece of legislation.

Oh. My bad.


and i merely mentioned that the leg. that i perceive to be associated with a "christian agenda" don't seem to me to be of the love one another kind


and look at the legislation that is coming to washington


i simply see an attempt to legislate a particular view of christianity on the masses


i have a problem with them trying to legislate that i should also have them...or be forced to abide by them

Sure looked like it. Nice to know me taking your open, empty accusations to task is, and I quote...


**** and moan about the poor discriminated against christians

That's so frickin' awesome. In Latin it's called 'ad hominem'.

In English, it's, and I quote...


PWNED

[FaninAma]

Tulsa,

It was this very type of religious restrictive thinking that Christ hated most!

:pop:

Christ was crucified by the established religious fundamentalists of his time....with a little help from the Romans, of course.

[Mongo]

:pop:

[C&CDean]

You know, in all fairness, y'all probably oughta quit saying bad **** about the Methodones since Froze nixed the post about the Catholics not really being christians because they followed the pope during the crusades and not Christ. Just sayin'.....

And coming from a very much "fundamentalist, far right hellfire and brimstone" upbringing let me just say this: That **** doesn't scare me, however, it does annoy the hell out of me. Mainly because they're so hypocritical. When you've got a couple of heifers running somewhere around 350 on-the-hoof standing outside the church house gossiping about the young girl who's skirt is too short - as they load up in the van and head for Furr's to eat their weight in chicken fry - it chaps my ***.

That being said, anyone who actually fears these weirdos is pretty much irrational. Kind of like fearing spiders. Or snakes. It's irrational. Their fear is not based on anything factual or real. It's based on something rattling around in their noggin that they can't explain.

Fearing someone who doesn't care one iota about your life, their life, or anything other than bringing you flaming death would be the opposite. It's based on fact. It's rational. It's real.

[Hatfield]

Oh. My bad.









Sure looked like it. Nice to know me taking your open, empty accusations to task is, and I quote...



That's so frickin' awesome. In Latin it's called 'ad hominem'.

In English, it's, and I quote...

so in your warped view of the world...you quote me multiple times where i stay consistent....you then misstate what i have been saying...and magically then you pwn?

interesting.....

is it your position that christians aren't trying to legislate their beliefs as it relates to abortion, homosexuality, etc.?

[C&CDean]

hatfield,

In all fairness to the fireman, reading your schtick is like reading smoke. It's there, sorta, but it's wispy, and usually without a whole lot of substance. You ain't really based/anchored in anything, are you?