OUr 2000-2003 players were amazing

[SoonerSinger3]

I've been watching some Sooner football vids from the 2000-2003 years and all those players were amazing. They played 100% every down and hardly never made mistakes. I hate to say it, but I don't know if we'll ever have those kind of teams again. Something is missing since about 2003 or 2004. I don't feel like we have the swagger we once had and that makes me wanna cry. IN those days I expected to win every game. Now, I hope we will win. I know we'll have as much talent if not more, but those 2000-2003 players were one TEAM..Derrick Strait, Everage, Woolfolk, Calmus, Marshall, Lehman, Harris, Perkins, Savage, Fagan, Griffin, Smith and I could go on and on. damn those guys were good

http://youtube.com/watch?v=w82qIs4OzI8

[birddog]

if that link doesn't get you in the green, you've done some very bad things.

[oumartin]

Hardly never?

[MichiganSooner]

So true about their ability and their team play. We won one national title and almost a second at the Sugar Bowl. If the guys are really hungry and want to truly work and focus, they can become a great team, too. I read somewhere that someone, maybe Stoops, said that the newer players of a couple years ago, expected to put on the uniform and just win because the helment has an OU on it. It doesn't come easy and it didn't come easy to the 2000-2003 teams although sometimes it looked like it was easy. I remember many a tense moment from the stands and people around me saying "come on guys, play smart." We need to always appreciate what we have with the Sooners and Coach Stoops; there are over a 100 teams shooting for the championship.

[AimForCenterMass]

I think having Josh Heupel and Jason White made all of the difference on offense. During the parts of the 2001 and 2002 season where White was out, I felt kind of like I did the last two seasons. I knew OU could rely on talent to beat most teams, but I had my fingers crossed when Oklahoma played someone of similiar calibre talent. When JW was on the field, I thought OU was unbeatable.

On the defensive side, we just flat out miss Mike. This thread wouldn't exist if he were still here. He made OU what it was. The swagger you mentioned; he brought that. OU's two biggest losses over the years were Mike and JW, though White's days would've had to come to an end eventually.

Man, I miss watching Jason take the snaps. He was simply magical.

[goingoneight]

It's true that Mike Stoops was/is an incredible motivator. But BV is learning and what I saw the second half of 2006 from his unit was pretty cool. I saw a unit that was worse than OSU and Baylor's scout teams step up and become an all-conference defense. I know they got toasted in the Fiasco Bowl, but so did some of the mighty defenses we had during Mike Stoops days. Mike Stoops was a co-coordinator, so the show wasn't all about him. I think it's worth mentioning that OUr defense, while not exactly the same as it used to be, is still good year in and out since 2003. There are a lot of teams that could probably have won an MNC with last year's defense or 2005's defense. That is of course, saying teams with great offenses.

[oumartin]

Our Defenses have gotten worse EACH YEAR. We no longer strike fear into the opponent! The defense has no attitude. I don't blame BV but we sure miss Mike in that regard.

[the_ouskull]

I watch that video and see a bunch of less-recruited athletes with no preconceived egos, coming together and proving that they're talented enough to win games with the unique combination of their physical abilities, their mental acumen, and their complete understanding of the playbook, and how to win, no matter what.

When I watch us play now, I see a lot of ridiculously talented athletes who, at times, seem as if they think they deserve something. Everything has to be earned. A football team with a sense of entitlement is... is... Notre Dame, and, by God, we're better than that.

the_ouskull

[Tear Down This Wall]

The "something" that is missing is that football games are won and lost in the trenches. Our strength and conditioning coach, the one that yells like a moron at opposing teams' players, ran off over a dozen linemen during a five year stretch, decimating our line depth over the past couple of years.

Genius.

Anyway, we will finally have another offensive line full of experienced upper classmen in 2007...unless Mr. Yelly can't contain his ego during the summer workout period.

[colleyvillesooner]

If every lineman that was run off was because of Schmitty, don't you think he'd be gone by now, friend of Bob or not?

That just reeks of having to assign blame to something that could just be an aligning of ill fated stars.

[oumartin]

Bob doesn't get rid of coaches, but I hardly doubt its all on J.S.
I think he expects guys to work their butt off and those guys didn't feel they had to.

[rhombic21]

1) Mike was a great DC, no doubt about it. In big games, we almost always came out with a scheme/gameplan that had the other team confused for at least a half. We also came up with turnovers and big plays on defense that were critical in spurring the offense and getting out to big leads.

2) The talent level is not what it was. At least it's not as balanced as it was. For the past several years we have had unbalanced teams. For instance, last year we had an abundance of CBs, and no playmakers at Safety, until we moved Reggie back. On offense, we have a truckload of talent at HB and WR, but we lack talent/experience at QB and FB (Runnels is extremely under-rated in terms of what he meant to those teams). We also don't have a lot of balance between classes. From '00 to '03 we always had a lot of balance between veterans and young players. We'd always have a couple younger players who were playing well, with battle tested veterans that could lead by example and make plays in the clutch. For example, in '01 we had Roy Williams, Derrick Strait, and Andre Woolfolk as key veteran leaders, but then we had Antonio Perkins and Brandon Everage as up and coming stars. We had Teddy Lehman, Jimmy Wilkerson, and Tommie Harris, but we also had Rocky Calmus, Cory Heineke, and Kory Klein. If you look at the '03 team, you have KeJuan Jones, Travis Wilson, JeJuan Rankins, and Mark Bradley that were younger guys, but then you had Renaldo Works, Jason White, Mark Clayton, Brandon Jones, and Will Peoples to balance it out. What we've hit recently is a stretch where we have a bunch of positions that have basically no veteran leadership (DB, WR), or where the veterans aren't nearly as talented as they have been in the past (DL, QB, LB).

3) Probably the biggest thing that we don't have anymore is veteran quarterbacks that have been in the system AND have big time college football talent. I love PT, he was a great team player and he bailed us out big time last year, but he did not have an all-conference, let alone all-American arm (both in terms of accuracy and throwing power). From '00 to '03 we had Josh Heupel, who was a two year starter and perfectly built for that offense, Nate Hybl, who had been in the system for two years, and had a big time arm, Jason White, who would have been a first day draft pick if not for his knee injuries, and who had been in the system for 6 years by the time he graduated. Basically every year, we had a guy that we could not only count on from a mental standpoint, but also somebody that had big time talent.

Not to re-open old wounds, but if Rhett Bomar isn't an idiot, I'm fairly certain that we're playing for the crystal last year. He would have been a two year starter, and if you go back and look at what he was doing the second half of '05 and in the bowl game, he would have had a monster year behind our offensive line, with a WR crew that wasn't playing a year before it was ready. People seem to forget it now, but he probably would be a top 5 QB in the nation, and would have been the best QB in the conference. I understand that he had an attitude problem, and was probably bad for morale on top of his rule violations, but I'm just saying -- you get a Rhett Bomar that doesn't act like a spoiled child, and who doesn't throw away his eligibility, and last year's team probably beats Oregon pretty easily, and would have probably beaten Texas as well.

IMO, the biggest mistake by the coaches was the entire way that they handled the QB situation since Jason left. They should have done what they needed to do to keep Tommy Grady on campus, knowing that PT was probably never going to develop into a prime-time QB, and that Bomar had serious attitude problems. If they make it a two man QB race in '05, and move Thompson to WR in the spring, then it works out better for everybody. Grady probably would have stayed, knowing that he was one play away from leading a national contender, and Thompson would have been given a chance to develop as a WR, where he's got the best shot of making it in the NFL.

[oumartin]

heupel was only there for 99 and 2000!

[Tear Down This Wall]

Name a coach Bob has fired. We've gone four seasons with basically no production from tight end, and yet the tight ends coach stays. The secondary under BJW has been atrocious, yet no real secondary coach is hired. Chris Wilson, who took BJW's position as DE coach, took a group of seniors who had performed well for BJW as underclassmen and turned them into average players. And, yet...you guessed it...he still has his job.

So, no matter how many linemen Schmidt runs off, no matter how stupid he makes the program look by yelling at the kids on other teams, he stays.

If we continue to have three and four loss seasons, nothing will happen. Joe C. will keep grinning and walking along the sideline while the compliance department acts like they can't do their job from the men's gymnastics team to the football program. Bob will get the deer-in-the-headlights look everytime we're beaten by the deep pass. The kool-aid drinkers will answer every criticism of the three/four loss squads with, "Oh, so we should go back to John Blake" as if the only two coaches OU can choose from are John Blake and Bob Stoops.

It's old, it's tired. If we go through another three/four loss season, some heads need to roll. Seriously. This isn't Texas Tech where we can just be happy to be in a bowl game. Stoops really needs to hold his staff accountable for what happens.

I mean, folks, the damn hook-and-lateral...when we've got three guys standing on the goal line to start the play...and the guy goes in untouched? All we have to do to win is tackle the guy.

Tackling, there's another issue...for another day.

Coaching.

[Seamus]

They should have done what they needed to do to keep Tommy Grady on campus, knowing that PT was probably never going to develop into a prime-time QB, and that Bomar had serious attitude problems.


That was an excellent overall post. Agree with much, but I think Paul did develop into a prime-time quarterback. Not All-American, but a Big XII championship quarterback. By no means was a caretaker, either.



heupel was only there for 99 and 2000!

He was referring to the triumvirate of Heupel, Hybl and White up to 2003.

[SoonerSinger3]

Rhombic21 I agree with almost everything you said except for one thing. You said that if Bomar would've stayed on the team we would have beaten Oregon easily. Well, I disagree because the defense still would have played **** poor in that game regardless of who our QB was. We possibly would have beaten Texas, but it's really a moot point.

[XingTheRubicon]

Name a coach Bob has fired. We've gone four seasons with basically no production from tight end, and yet the tight ends coach stays. The secondary under BJW has been atrocious, yet no real secondary coach is hired. Chris Wilson, who took BJW's position as DE coach, took a group of seniors who had performed well for BJW as underclassmen and turned them into average players. And, yet...you guessed it...he still has his job.

So, no matter how many linemen Schmidt runs off, no matter how stupid he makes the program look by yelling at the kids on other teams, he stays.

If we continue to have three and four loss seasons, nothing will happen. Joe C. will keep grinning and walking along the sideline while the compliance department acts like they can't do their job from the men's gymnastics team to the football program. Bob will get the deer-in-the-headlights look everytime we're beaten by the deep pass. The kool-aid drinkers will answer every criticism of the three/four loss squads with, "Oh, so we should go back to John Blake" as if the only two coaches OU can choose from are John Blake and Bob Stoops.

It's old, it's tired. If we go through another three/four loss season, some heads need to roll. Seriously. This isn't Texas Tech where we can just be happy to be in a bowl game. Stoops really needs to hold his staff accountable for what happens.

I mean, folks, the damn hook-and-lateral...when we've got three guys standing on the goal line to start the play...and the guy goes in untouched? All we have to do to win is tackle the guy.

Tackling, there's another issue...for another day.

Coaching.

What the hell, TDTW?


Keep in mind, in 2000 we were a jump ball from getting punked by lOSUr, and if Torrance Marshall doesn't have cat tongue fingertips, we lose @ATM. Some years the ball bounces your way and some they don't. See: 2001 with the same defender vs the same team. Were Stoops and the D coaches all the sudden morons?

[Ash]

This thread kicks ***!

Things can get really slow on the football boards during the offseason but this thread has brought back the swagger and Mike Stoops mojo talk! Yippee! It's almost like we've already lost a game!

[Ash]

By the way, it's not that Stoops hasn't recruited swagger, it's tough to get playas with a good pimp walk since the whorns won their MNC and with all this talk about impending sanctions.

Heck, did you hear the story about Demarco Murray? Stoops didn't even know he played football! He just saw him at the gym while recruiting another player and said "Gawl dang! That guy has the best swagger I've seen in all my football days! GET HIM A SCHOLLIE!"

True story.

[Ash]

Oh yeah, and if Mike Stoops were still here, it would have been sunny and mild today.

[rhombic21]

That was an excellent overall post. Agree with much, but I think Paul did develop into a prime-time quarterback. Not All-American, but a Big XII championship quarterback. By no means was a caretaker, either.
Yeah, but go back and watch the tape. The WRs made a ton of ridiculous catches, and the defense played out of their minds. If Malcolm Kelly doesn't make a bunch of pretty ridiculous catches by adjusting to balls that were thrown pretty far off target, then we could have very easily lost that game. Paul really played a fairly minor role (for a QB) in OU's success last year. Don't get me wrong, he was a great leader and an awesome teammate, but in terms of on-field production, he was very average (and at times was below average).

Seriously, if you watch the Malcolm Kelly Highlight video that I made, you can see how many times Malcolm alone bailed Paul out with catches that most WRs don't make. This doesn't even take into account the fact that our OL last year was phenomenal, that our TEs (despite TDTW's claims) were extremely productive, and that we had arguably the best set of RBs in the nation.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=T9W7nTi4JFQ

[rhombic21]

Rhombic21 I agree with almost everything you said except for one thing. You said that if Bomar would've stayed on the team we would have beaten Oregon easily. Well, I disagree because the defense still would have played **** poor in that game regardless of who our QB was. We possibly would have beaten Texas, but it's really a moot point.
Regardless of how bad the defense played, OU would have scored at least 2 or 3 more TDs with Bomar at QB, and won comfortably.

Not only was Bomar a more accurate passer, but teams KNEW that he was a more accurate passer, and as a result, the run game would have opened up a lot more. With Bomar (again, assuming that Bomar isn't an a-hole that ruins chemistry), OU's offense last year is as good as we were in 2003.

[rhombic21]

TDTW, what in the world are you talking about?

Name a coach Bob has fired. We've gone four seasons with basically no production from tight end, and yet the tight ends coach stays. The secondary under BJW has been atrocious, yet no real secondary coach is hired.
These claims are ridiculous. Our tight ends last year were pretty productive. To classify the secondary play as "atrocious" is just ridiculous. Did you even bother to watch the team after the Oregon game? OU's secondary was arguably the best in the conference once conference play started.


Chris Wilson, who took BJW's position as DE coach, took a group of seniors who had performed well for BJW as underclassmen and turned them into average players. And, yet...you guessed it...he still has his job.
Another horrible statement. Wilson took over for BJW the year that Pellini left. In other words, he was the position coach in 2005 when the DEs were one of the strengths of the team.


If we continue to have three and four loss seasons, nothing will happen. Joe C. will keep grinning and walking along the sideline while the compliance department acts like they can't do their job from the men's gymnastics team to the football program. Bob will get the deer-in-the-headlights look everytime we're beaten by the deep pass. The kool-aid drinkers will answer every criticism of the three/four loss squads with, "Oh, so we should go back to John Blake" as if the only two coaches OU can choose from are John Blake and Bob Stoops.

It's old, it's tired. If we go through another three/four loss season, some heads need to roll. Seriously. This isn't Texas Tech where we can just be happy to be in a bowl game. Stoops really needs to hold his staff accountable for what happens.
Good Lord man, two years in a row where we aren't playing in a NC game, and you make it sound like the sky is falling. We won the conference last year (for the second time in three years), man. We went to a BCS game for the 4th time in 5 years. Try to get a grip. Oh, and by the way, we did that despite losing our starting QB (and one of the better players on the team) before the season started, and with the best player in college football being injured for over half the season. Yeah, what a horrible coaching job our staff did. Just ridiculous.


I mean, folks, the damn hook-and-lateral...when we've got three guys standing on the goal line to start the play...and the guy goes in untouched? All we have to do to win is tackle the guy.

Yet another bogus statement. It was 4th and forever, but there was enough time left in the game that it wasn't simply a "stop them before the goal line and the game is over" situation. You can't simply have guys stand at the goal line on that play. I believe the line that they needed to make was about the 25 yard line. Nobody was standing on the goal line prior to the snap of the ball.


Coaching
Yes, coaching. We have seen some of the best in the nation in Norman over the past half-decade, and you act like we should be looking for a new coach. Why don't you try and get some perspective for a second and think about some of the ludicrous things that you've said in this thread.

[AimForCenterMass]

2000-2003
16 All-Americans (11 Defense - 4 Offense - 1 Special Teams)

Seven of those AA came in 2003!

[goingoneight]

The "something" that is missing is that football games are won and lost in the trenches. Our strength and conditioning coach, the one that yells like a moron at opposing teams' players, ran off over a dozen linemen during a five year stretch, decimating our line depth over the past couple of years.

Genius.

Anyway, we will finally have another offensive line full of experienced upper classmen in 2007...unless Mr. Yelly can't contain his ego during the summer workout period.


That "moron," Mr. Yelly is responsible for players like Roy, AD, Tommie, Wilkerson, and Thatcher getting the most out of their frames. I think if ANYONE at Oklahoma is doing their job right, it is Schmidt.

If the players are that big of a punanny that they can't handle Division 1 football strength and conditioning, I'd rather have five OL who can handle it, than 20 who do nothing but eat and cry in the weight room.

Tomato-tomato, we'll agree to disagree.

[goingoneight]

Rhombic21 I agree with almost everything you said except for one thing. You said that if Bomar would've stayed on the team we would have beaten Oregon easily. Well, I disagree because the defense still would have played **** poor in that game regardless of who our QB was. We possibly would have beaten Texas, but it's really a moot point.


This much is A+ true. PT, Malcom Kelly, and AD all had near-perfect performances on the first road game of the season in that second half. The defense was still learning and agreeably needed to go back and be drilled fundamentally. Still, this game was without a doubt a dominant performance early on by a young team that got a win stolen from them because of either carelessness, or because money talks. We all know how fast USC moved up after OU's "loss" in "mighty PAC 10 country." We also know that USC was ranked higher than us having lost to not one, but two unranked teams going into the post-season. Is it all evil USC's fault? No. But there is always room to suspect an agenda that "just-so-happened" to benefit them.